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  1. #1
    CC FIDE Master Keong Ang's Avatar
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    FIDE Licensing of Players - Revised Version (see #62)

    Has anyone noticed the requirement for players to be registered and licensed before being allowed to enter FIDE rated events from 1st July 2013?

    http://www.fide.com/component/conten...gulations.html

    REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS
    Approved by 2013 Presidential Board


    1.All Players shall be required to register with their National Chess Federations (NCF). The FIDE Regulations on Registration, Transfers and Eligibility shall apply.

    2.The NCF (or FIDE) shall issue the FIDE ID Number if the Player does not have one at the time of registration. NCF will register the Player with FIDE by providing information containing the Player’s Name, Gender, Place & Year of Birth, Photo, Passport Number; FIDE ID Number (if any).

    3.FIDE/NCF shall issue the Player with a Player ID Card bearing the information from Rule 2 above. All information shall be maintained in the List of FIDE Licensed Players.

    4.A Player who registers to compete in any FIDE rated competition shall be required to provide his FIDE ID Number.

    5.An Organizer receiving any registration must refer to the List of FIDE Licensed Players before accepting the registration.

    6.If an Organizer inadvertently accepted a Player without a valid License, the Organizer shall be penalized 50 Euro for every infringement. Such Players shall not have a FIDE ID Number and shall have no Federation Flag.

    7.Games played by Players without a valid License shall not count for rating for themselves. Games played against them by Licensed Players shall be counted.

    8.A NCF may subsequently (during or after the competition) register the Player mentioned in Rules 8 & 9 above provided a Late Payment Fee of 50 Euro is paid.

    9.Players without a License cannot play in any official FIDE or Continental competition.

    10.For each time a player who has been delisted by his NCF and subsequently re-listed, the payment is 20 Euro.
    This would have major effects on FIDE rated events.
    The ramifications are quite alarming to us in the NZCF council.
    IA Keong Ang
    "The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly." Abraham Lincoln

  2. #2
    CC Candidate Master
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    It's been discussed for a few days at ChessPub: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb...num=1359114215

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    This looks like giving the ACF an interesting added burden. At least we have newly elected Executive VP Leonid Sandler on hand to take over as Players Registrar.

    DJ
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

    In Arsène we Trust!

  4. #4
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    A version of this (where they were going to charge for all licences) came up in Krakow, see http://www.fide.com/images/stories/N...of_Players.pdf

    It was roundly condemned and didn't get out of committee stage.

    See previous thread on it here: http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=13391

    But now this revised version of it has been approved by the PB.

  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    At first sight, and perhaps in fact, the provision seems to impose on the ACF what amounts to an individual membership scheme, something it has long resisted. A lot may rest on how the opening sentence is interpreted.

    DJ
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

    In Arsène we Trust!

  6. #6
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    At first sight, and perhaps in fact, the provision seems to impose on the ACF what amounts to an individual membership scheme, something it has long resisted. A lot may rest on how the opening sentence is interpreted.
    Although it imposes a pre-registration requirement on players who wish to participate in FIDE rated events with their national federation, the failure to do so imposes a penalty on the organiser of the event, not the national federation if such a player takes part in a FIDE rated event.
    If an organiser refuses/fails to pay the penalty fee, what will FIDE do?
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  7. #7
    CC International Master William AS's Avatar
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    FIDE have shot themselves in the foot again.
    This will be a disaster for FIDE finances.
    There will be few, if any, FIDE rated tournaments in Australia after July 1.
    Like many Australians I do not have a passport and there is no chance I will pay to get one just for FIDE.
    I would also strongly advise anyone who has a passport against providing the passport ID number to FIDE or tournament organisers on security grounds.
    The chances of getting local players to provide the required information are absolutely zero.
    The reaction of most [all?] of our members is likely to be unprintable.
    “A wise prince will seek means by which his subjects will always and in every possible condition of things have need of his government, and then they will always be faithful to him.” — Niccolo Machiavelli (1469–1527), Il Principe (The Prince)

    A wise prince will also realise that this can be achieved more successfully by means other than rape, pillage, greed, lies, deceit or misinformation.

  8. #8
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    I'm assuming they won't insist that everyone gets a passport and will just allow that space to be left blank where that data is unknown.

  9. #9
    CC FIDE Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by William AS
    FIDE have shot themselves in the foot again.
    This will be a disaster for FIDE finances.
    There will be few, if any, FIDE rated tournaments in Australia after July 1.
    Like many Australians I do not have a passport and there is no chance I will pay to get one just for FIDE.
    I would also strongly advise anyone who has a passport against providing the passport ID number to FIDE or tournament organisers on security grounds.
    The chances of getting local players to provide the required information are absolutely zero.
    The reaction of most [all?] of our members is likely to be unprintable.
    William AS,

    I totally agree with you. I also see this as a problem for small nations as well. The passport ID won't be needed if you don't have one at all.

    However, I have found out why they are doing this though.

    The reason for the licensing of players will be to stop duplications in the FIDE rating system. As for organisers been hit with the fee for brand new players who might be new to chess and there first event happens to be a FIDE rated event is still unclear as to whether it will be implented.

    lost
    Last edited by lost; 30-01-2013 at 05:40 AM.

  10. #10

  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Good comments about the scheme from Shaun Press:

    http://chesslaw.blogspot.com.au/2013...m-fide-qc.html
    I see that Shaun confirms my reaction that the rules require a de facto individual membership (ie Registration) scheme even though they do not purport to make the players members of the National Federation (nor could they). The remark attributed to Ignatius Leong seems to confirm this by indicating that the initial reference to "players" is to all players, not just those immediately intending to enter a FIDE-rated event.

    DJ
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

    In Arsène we Trust!

  12. #12
    CC Rookie
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    Quote Originally Posted by William AS
    FIDE have shot themselves in the foot again.
    This will be a disaster for FIDE finances.
    There will be few, if any, FIDE rated tournaments in Australia after July 1.
    Like many Australians I do not have a passport and there is no chance I will pay to get one just for FIDE.
    I would also strongly advise anyone who has a passport against providing the passport ID number to FIDE or tournament organisers on security grounds.
    The chances of getting local players to provide the required information are absolutely zero.
    The reaction of most [all?] of our members is likely to be unprintable.
    This is generally the reaction in the USA. A number of organizers are pre-emptively skipping the FIDE-rated option for sections of tournaments even if they will end before July first.

    http://main.uschess.org/assets/msa_j...n.php?10336015

  13. #13
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    From the US Chess Federation forums
    Posted by Bill Goichberg (US Chess Federation executive board member) (Continental Chess Association founder and thus organizer of the majority, possibly the great majority, of the large USA tournaments with FIDE rated sections):

    Continental Chess will not participate in the FIDE registration/licensing process, and does not plan to hold FIDE rated tournaments which begin after June 30. The idea that we have to register players for FIDE before the first round is ludicrous, and would probably cause that round to start very late. We also are not going to do the work of contacting advance entries to try to register them for FIDE online.

    I predict that because of complaints, FIDE will modify this requirement to allow registration to be submitted with the rating report. I thought about whether CCA could accept this and decided that no, we are not going to do all that extra work just because FIDE says so. There is also the issue of the passport numbers facilitating identity theft. I suggest that USCF inform FIDE that it will not register players either.

    A plan I'm considering for the World Open is to modify our publicity to bring back the two weekend schedule, probably in the Open Section only. This will make the starting date of the overall event June 29 rather than July 1, which should mean it will use June FIDE ratings and not be subject to the changes effective July 1. We will have to use 40/90, SD/30, inc/30 in the Open Section for norms to be possible, but won't need to do any FIDE registration. After the World Open, we will hold no more FIDE rated tournaments unless the registration and licensing nonsense is repealed, and not replaced by something else similarly objectionable.

    The FIDE method appears to be gradually issuing one edict after another announcing new fees, restrictions, or tasks that federations and organizers are required to pay, observe, or undertake. When there is an outcry they back off somewhat, but soon they return with another version of the same thing, and ultimately, little by little, they get what they want. If they insisted on everything immediately, too many organizers and federations might quit, so instead they announce a big power/money grab and "generously" settle for less, but soon are back with a different power/money grab. Each time, many federations are unhappy and object, but then grudgingly go along, thinking that even given the latest outrage, it's still worth being part of FIDE. This acceptance is a mistake. When the arbiter fees were passed as a result of Kirsan declaring them approved without objection and not allowing opponents of the fees to speak or vote (microphones disabled), that would have been a good time for a group of federations to tell FIDE, "No arbiter fees or we drop out of FIDE." Now we have another chance to draw a line in the sand, and I hope the letter of complaint from the Netherlands Chess Federation to FIDE issues such a warning if their latest idiotic rules are not quickly annulled.

    FIDE already charges very high federation dues, rating fees, title fees, arbiter fees, federation switch fees, late fees, etc. They now have an individual membership fee for scholastic players and a "relisting fee" for delisted players (not clear why USCF would want to delist players but presumably FIDE will force us to), and they want to in effect collect from multiple federations in the same country by having "FIDE Academy" fees and giving the academies powers previously reserved for federations (the right to submit rating reports to FIDE, to apply for CM titles, and to send players to the World Youth). It's only a matter of time before all "registered players" are required to renew their "licenses" by paying a fee.
    ...
    Bill Goichberg

  14. #14
    CC International Master William AS's Avatar
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    The costs involved in having an ID Card would be prohibitive and could not be justified for solving [only in their wildest dreams] the minor problem of duplications.

    The current FIDE rating system is already a de-facto registration system and this would also apply to most, if not all, national rating systems.

    Players should provide their name, gender, year of birth, country of permanent residence/nationality and FIDE ID number [if any]. Having to provide FIDE with anything more is totally unacceptable. [the chances of persuading players to supply more are nil]

    We have local players who have asked that we not publish their photo or place of birth due to risks to family and friends where they come from by national security and religious organisations and the danger of terrorist attack by those organisations.

    Passport numbers would also be a major security risk for any player if made public.

    Supplying a photo should be voluntary and I would recommend that the pose in any supplied not be one suitable for a passport, credit or identity card.

    Most, if not all, organisers would think that the proposed fees/penalties are completely unacceptable.

    This proposal has the potential to almost completely destroy FIDE's income stream.

    FIDE should restrict their fund raising to a moderate rating fee that encourages player participation in rated events and restrict their expenditure to match that income.

    Many of the current fees are counter-productive, for example 2 local players are registered with other federations and would like to transfer to Australia but this is unlikely to happen with the current fee structure.
    “A wise prince will seek means by which his subjects will always and in every possible condition of things have need of his government, and then they will always be faithful to him.” — Niccolo Machiavelli (1469–1527), Il Principe (The Prince)

    A wise prince will also realise that this can be achieved more successfully by means other than rape, pillage, greed, lies, deceit or misinformation.

  15. #15
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    I agree with many here that this is another terrible move by FIDE. When will they ever learn? It will serve them right if many nations follow the US lead and cease holding FIDE rated events.
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly playing at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

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