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  1. #1
    CC International Master Goughfather's Avatar
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    In light of the story of 17 year old Trayvon Martin, which has been doing the rounds for the last week or so, as well as increased scrutiny of "Stand Your Ground" laws, I'm looking forward to Jono's response.
    "People with guns don't understand. That's why they get guns. Too many misunderstandings." - Jerry Seinfeld, The Little Kicks

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughfather
    In light of the story of 17 year old Trayvon Martin, which has been doing the rounds for the last week or so, as well as increased scrutiny of "Stand Your Ground" laws, I'm looking forward to Jono's response.
    I thought Zimmerman was chasing (unarmed) Martin therefore the "Stand Your Ground" law would not apply .

    I think it was more a mistake by the police , as perhaps indicated by the resignation of Police chief Bill Lee Jr.
    Last edited by Laserlite; 25-03-2012 at 10:17 PM.

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laserlite
    I thought Zimmerman was chasing (unarmed) Martin therefore the "Stand Your Ground" law would not apply.
    Exactly. And since Martin was not in Zimmerman's home, the "Castle doctrine" would not apply either. They are both bloody good laws, unlike those in places like Britain that favour criminals over home owners (an ambulance chaser like GF would probably approve).
    “If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.” — Abba Eban on the UN general assembly

    “You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.” — Obi-Wan Kenobi on the UN kakistocracy

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    How is a fruitcake like Zimmerman allowed to carry a gun?

  5. #5
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    Maybe a Witness

    I see there may be an unidentified witness who saw Martin attacking Zimmerman. Hard to say with this case though as we don't know all the facts.

    But that won't stop race hustlers like Sharpton or the racist Black Panther's calling for a lynch mob.

  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damodevo
    I see there may be an unidentified witness who saw Martin attacking Zimmerman. Hard to say with this case though as we don't know all the facts.

    But that won't stop race hustlers like Sharpton or the racist Black Panther's calling for a lynch mob.
    Exactly. In fact, former NAACP leader C.L. Bryant is accusing Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton of “exploiting” the Trayvon Martin tragedy to “racially divide this country.”

    Bryant, who explores the topic of black-on-black crime in his new film “Runaway Slave,” said people like Jackson and Sharpton are being misleading to suggest there is an epidemic of “white men killing black young men.”

    “The epidemic is truly black on black crime,” Bryant said. “The greatest danger to the lives of young black men are young black men.”

    Bryant said he wishes civil rights leaders were protesting those problems.

    “Why not be angry about the wholesale murder that goes on in the streets of Newark and Chicago?” he asked. “Why isn’t somebody angry about that six-year-old girl who was killed on her steps last weekend in a cross fire when two gang members in Chicago start shooting at each other? Why is there no outrage about that?”
    “If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.” — Abba Eban on the UN general assembly

    “You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.” — Obi-Wan Kenobi on the UN kakistocracy

  7. #7
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    Obama

    I see Obama has again sullied the presidency by weighing in on the Treyvon Martin case when not all the facts have come to light yet. For all we know it could have been a racially motivated attack but then we DON'T know and that is the whole point. For Obama to join this crusade and fan the flames of victim-hood is disgraceful...

  8. #8
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damodevo
    I see Obama has again sullied the presidency by weighing in on the Treyvon Martin case when not all the facts have come to light yet. For all we know it could have been a racially motivated attack but then we DON'T know and that is the whole point.
    What has Obama said about it that is supposedly so unreasonable or premature, let alone that has "sullied the presidency"? Has he actually stated that it is a racially motivated attack?

  9. #9
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    Has he actually stated that it is a racially motivated attack?
    Sure has. He intimated as much when he expressed concern that if he had a son he would look like Martin implying that this guy was killed for his race. But not all the facts of the case have even come to light so it is incredibly irresponsible for him to weigh into this debate.

  10. #10
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damodevo
    Sure has. He intimated as much when he expressed concern that if he had a son he would look like Martin implying that this guy was killed for his race.
    You are reading a lot into it. Just because he is expressing personal sympathy for the parents by indicating that a boy like that could have been his son does not automatically mean he believes or intends to imply the killing was racially motivated. It's true he didn't explicitly play down the race angle and therefore he left open the possibility that he believes the killing was racially motivated, but I think that is as far as his statements so far can be taken.

    But not all the facts of the case have even come to light so it is incredibly irresponsible for him to weigh into this debate.
    It's very common for not all the facts of any given case to come to light quickly, but there are obvious reasons (excluding race) for very serious concern about this one. Calling for every aspect of the issue to be investigated is perfectly reasonable and consistent with that.

    By the way, do you have any interest in chess? I ask because every post you've made so far is in the non-chess sections.

  11. #11
    CC International Master Goughfather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Has he actually stated that it is a racially motivated attack?
    Quote Originally Posted by Damodevo
    Sure has. He intimated
    It is most impressive that you have managed to contradict yourself in four words. I'm not even sure Jono could achieve such a feat.

    Obama made it absolutely clear at the outset that he was limited in what he should say given the fact that the investigation was continuing, essentially the opposite of your accusation. Whatever the truth of this situation, it is a tragedy and there is nothing unreasonable in Obama suggesting this.

    For what it's worth, I think there is fairly good evidence to suggest that Zimmerman is a racist (he indicates that "they always get away" and later mutters the phrase "f***ing coons" which is apparently a reference to Martin), but whether it is primarily a racially motivated attack is much less certain. It is probably more likely that the primary reason that the shooting occurred is that Zimmerman is a wannabe rambo who couldn't make the grade as a cop.
    Last edited by Goughfather; 28-03-2012 at 06:48 PM.
    "People with guns don't understand. That's why they get guns. Too many misunderstandings." - Jerry Seinfeld, The Little Kicks

  12. #12
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughfather
    For what it's worth, I think there is fairly good evidence to suggest that Zimmerman is a racist (he indicates that "they always get away" and later mutters the phrase "f***ing coons" which is apparently a reference to Martin),
    I understand there's a few different versions of what he actually supposedly muttered; some people think he said "goons". Haven't heard it myself.

    It is probably more likely that the primary reason that the shooting occurred is that Zimmerman is a wannabe rambo who couldn't make the grade as a cop.
    Indeed. And the big issue here to me is not that the law allows for killing in self-defence, but that we have a case where there is only an unsubstantiated (to this stage) claim of self-defence and yet the killer gets the benefit of the doubt without even a legal process to test his claim.

  13. #13
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    Obama

    Just because he is expressing personal sympathy for the parents by indicating that a boy like that could have been his son does not automatically mean he believes or intends to imply the killing was racially motivated.
    Except that's not what he did. His statement had clear racial overtones; "...he'd look like Treyvon." Now what do you think that is supposed to mean? He clearly took the race angle.

    If he was only intimating at the possibility then he would have said something like;

    "Its possible this was a racially motivated attack but we don't know all the facts yet and so it would be irresponsible for me to comment"

    Instead he takes the divisive tact and he is one of the most divisive presidents in history (proving what a phony he was with all his bravado about being the first bipartisan president).

  14. #14
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    Obama

    By the way, do you have any interest in chess? I ask because every post you've made so far is in the non-chess sections.
    I have a mild interest but I enjoy politics more. Do you have to be commenting more on chess to participate?

  15. #15
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    Obama made it absolutely clear at the outset that he was limited in what he should say given the fact that the investigation was continuing, essentially the opposite of your accusation. Whatever the truth of this situation, it is a tragedy and there is nothing unreasonable in Obama suggesting this.
    Now I can feel Jono's pain. How much obfuscation can one jam into one post?

    He made it clear and then turned around and said everyone in the US needs to do some soul searching right after referring to the skin color of Treyvon. But Americans weren't involved in what happened so why say that unless you were implicating nation-wide racism?

    It is probably more likely that the primary reason that the shooting occurred is that Zimmerman is a wannabe rambo who couldn't make the grade as a cop.
    Probably true so it was foolish for Obama and the near entire media to play this as evidence of American racism.

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