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  1. #46
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    What is their justification for the presentation being at 8pm especially for the Under 12's.
    I really don't know.....

    Basically you do want the presentations together - it is very exciting for the kids to come together and get the awards together. Many of the kids in the under 12's know juniors in the under 18 and there is state loyalty etc. So I think it would seriously detract from the event to split the prize-givings.

    I think (but don't know) that the decision to have a very late prizegiving was driven by the bus time table from Mt Buller to Melbourne. There are buses at 8am (useless) and 1:30 pm - not going to make that one either, as that is the time it leaves Mansfield. The final one is 7:45 and gets into Spencer street at 10:35pm. Still have to get from there to Tullamarine - so no-one is going to make a flight that night. If you are going to spend a night somewhere, it makes sense to spend it in Mt Buller and go out early the next day.

    However all this assumes large numbers flying into Melbourne. Obviously there will be some - Queensland, SA and WA. Historically the biggest numbers come from NSW, ACT and VIC. I would have thought these people would drive. I don't know of anyone from the ACT who is flying - we are either driving down, or for those people who do not want to, we have hired a bus to go directly from Canberra to Mt Buller.

    So starting the under 12 and under 18's together, a lunchtime presentation and party, allowing the people who want to drive to leave around 2:30 and be home that night would be much more friendly. Given the large impact on family life that the aus juniors has (in many cases families are separated for that period with one partner going to the comp, while the other stays at home and looks after siblings, or maybe just keeps working to keep the money coming in and not use up all the annual leave), an extra night actually has an impact.

    It is of course exacerbated by the fact that the road closes out of Mt Buller at 8:30am on the 22nd for the Porsche car rally. This will not affect people getting the v-line bus to Melbourne, as I understand the plan is to have them in Mansfield for the 8am bus.

    However people driving out will have to be prepared for an early start or to have to wait in Mt Buller until the road reopens briefly at 12:30. My family is not too good at early starts, so we are planning to attend prize-giving (probably - I feel it is something you should do whether your kids are winning a trophy or not) and then drive down to Mansfield and spend the night there. That way we don't have to stress about not getting out in time.

  2. #47
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Just heard back from George and he feels it is now too late to move the under 18 to co-incide with the under 12 and have an earlier presentation, because people have made bookings etc etc. So I guess if people would like to have a change, contacting George and expressing your point of view is the best thing to do.

  3. #48
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenni
    Just heard back from George and he feels it is now too late to move the under 18 to co-incide with the under 12 and have an earlier presentation, because people have made bookings etc etc. So I guess if people would like to have a change, contacting George and expressing your point of view is the best thing to do.
    Just to add, the times for the final round of the u18 and u12 is being discussed further. Will get back to everyone when more information is available.


    Cheers,

    Garvin

  4. #49
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    Surely if the presentation was changed to make an early get-away possible it wouldn't affect anyone adversely.

    If people have booked to leave the next day, they still can.

    It just offers those who want to the opportunity to leave on the same day.

  5. #50
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ring-A-Rosie
    Surely if the presentation was changed to make an early get-away possible it wouldn't affect anyone adversely.

    If people have booked to leave the next day, they still can.

    It just offers those who want to the opportunity to leave on the same day.
    I do feel we have a window of opportunity to get this changed, but I need some support on this. If you feel that you would like the times changed, please contact George and let him know.

  6. #51
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    Just to add, the times for the final round of the u18 and u12 is being discussed further. Will get back to everyone when more information is available.
    gray, it's very hard to believe anything you're saying. Sometimes you make definitive statements and at other times you duck and weave and say, 'ask george'.

    Your response above is totally the opposite of what jenni said and appears to disagree with your boss' feeling that it is now "too late". Who do we believe? Was that a knee-jerk reaction by you in crisis control? Did you have George's blessing to say what you said? Can you see the problem with messenger inconsistency gray?

    Either have something to say gray or say nothing at all. Take that as a bit of constructive feedback.

    AR

  7. #52
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    gray, it's very hard to believe anything you're saying. Sometimes you make definitive statements and at other times you duck and weave and say, 'ask george'.

    Your response above is totally the opposite of what jenni said and appears to disagree with your boss' feeling that it is now "too late". Who do we believe? Was that a knee-jerk reaction by you in crisis control? Did you have George's blessing to say what you said? Can you see the problem with messenger inconsistency gray?

    Either have something to say gray or say nothing at all. Take that as a bit of constructive feedback.

    AR
    i gave the most accurate response, the organisers are discussing it now and will be for a couple of days most likely It is just a case that George and Jenni have declared their thoughts earlier than everyone else.

  8. #53
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
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    Why I am NOT staying at the Mercure for the Aussie Juniors.

    Of course, this is all probably nobody’s business but my own however the strong sense coming from the organisers that people are going out of their way to destroy a sponsorship arrangement OR p*ss off George OR deliberating act in a way that will destroy the future of Australian chess, is being laid on very thickly. It comes over in posting on this site, it arrives in PMs & emails and it’s so unfair I thought people might need whacking over the head with some reality.

    My bank account currently holds less than $5 although I do have about $35 in my purse and about $300 in a Christmas Club. Payday is next Thursday. I’m a stay-at-home parent who contributes quite a bit to “the future of Australian chess” at a local level but there’s no money in it for me. My children go to Government schools, we have one car (a matchbox Daewoo) and we live in a very average home in the outer suburbs of Canberra. Our last family holiday was four days in Sydney before putting Kayleigh and I on a plane to Perth for the Aus Junior last January. Kayleigh went to World Youth last year for which I raised almost all the money required by selling chocolate, running fundraising events, running a raffle and sending out about 250 letters requesting support and sponsorship. I am currently sewing for a craft stall at the school fete to raise money to go to Aus Schools in Mt Buller in December. I have also run a fundraising tournament and been selling chocolate for that. This is not a whinge – the choice for me to be at home is mine, our family income is limited, so these are the things I do to make other things happen.

    Kayleigh and I are staying at Benmore Lodge for the Aus Juniors. It will cost us $45 per night (she is $15 and I am $30). It’s no good to anyone else as it is fully booked with ACT people. We have our own bathroom and share a kitchen and common rooms. Total cost (12 nights) is $540 plus meals that we can prepare in the kitchen. To stay at the Mercure, in a room together without a kitchen, would cost us $120/night – or that is what I have been quoted and what other ACT parents have been quoted – and includes breakfast. Total cost $1440.

    Now tell me – in my family’s circumstances – and in the interests of Australian chess – what the @#$% do you expect me to do? This is not a campaign to sabotage the event. I think the rates at the Mercure are very reasonable for that style of accommodation. I have no objection to the organisers promoting the Mercure as the preferred accommodation. I have no objection to it being the only accommodation advertised in the brochures. I totally object to the situation with bookings at the Mercure (particularly in relation to the juniors) consistently being rammed down our throat as if people don’t want to support the event and using it as an excuse for non-interest in a whole range of unrelated, legitimate concerns people raise.

    I don’t know why people are choosing the accommodation choices they make. I only know why I am choosing as I have. Try being a bit sensitive to MY position – in the interests of MY family and others like us.

    PS thank you to those who did not point out my appalling maths prior to edit
    Last edited by Libby; 15-10-2004 at 05:45 PM.

  9. #54
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klyall
    Thank you for all the above information. Despite this, I am still extremely concerned what I am going to do with my young non - chess playing son for 10 days; it is supposed to be his holiday too. If it is wet or extremely hot, outdoor activities will be difficult. Is there any way non - Mecure people can pay to use the pool?

    On another note, I have been told that the awards ceremony is going to be at 8.00 pm at night. Surely this is an error!
    Ah - the pool. See http://www.mtbuller.com.au/activities/swimming.html where it quite clearly (still) says there is public use of the pool

    Jenni is quite right - we have trod here before (see other Mt Buller threads). During Summer, LaTrobe University normally manages the pool and the Mercure gym. On the LaTrobe site you will find info about this, entry fees, opening hours etc. I discovered all of this and had no intention of being controversial when I pointed out to people that - at limited times of the day and for a fee - people not at the Mercure can use the pool.

    This was very quickly squashed by the committee. I ended up ringing Roman (at the Mercure) to try to get the Mercure's perspective on why normal, summer, public use was being revoked. We were never expecting a special deal but (and I may be wrong here) I was getting the feeling that the chess organisers themselves were those most opposed to any "strays" entering the sacred waters

    Roman told me that he expected the Mercure to be fully booked and that the pool was quite small (I have seen photos and it is quite small) so he didn't see that it was possible to have members of the public in the pool when so many guests would be making demands on that facility. Not quite sure where that argument currently stands Would also love to know if the pool will be closed to ALL members of the public, not just those connected to the chess ...

    Anyway, I thought that was reasonable (subject to the Mercure really being full) although I made one final tilt at the organisers by asking if they could pursue very limited access to the pool - given there isn't loads of stuff to do - where maybe there would be one or two days when (at limited times and for a fee) the kids could come for a swim. I've heard nothing back on that one and I guess I don't really expect to. That's one windmill I've stopped tilting at even as I continue to wonder who thinks this sort of attitude actually promotes a great atmosphere for the event ...
    Last edited by Libby; 15-10-2004 at 06:06 PM.

  10. #55
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    George at one time suggested I might have a chat to Roman and try and organise limited paid access to the pool. I was planning to do this when I was in Mt Buller for the schools.

    However over the last few weeks as more and more Juniors book at lodges, attitudes have hardened and the pool is definitely off limits.

  11. #56
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noidea
    I have just received the very flashy booklet including entry forms for the Aus. junior. Has anyone else seen it? No information about accommodation...some ridiculous times for games, and wait for it...The presentation for the under 12's is at 8 pm, followed by a barbeque and party. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most parents of juniors under 12 will, after 12 days on the mountain just want yo go home. Also, correct me if I'm wrong again, but most kids under 12 need to eat before 8, and this is the time of the presentation. So the food will be served at , what, 9 pm? I don't think you will have any younger juniors staying for the presentation. What is the motivation for this? To make us all stay another night? And don't tell me that we have to wait for the under 18's...if they can start together on day 1 and 2 why can't they do the same on the last day. I continue to think that this is not about "your tournament" as they say in the pamphlet, but about how long we can keep you there. I really don't think they have thought about the neeeds of the younger juniors at all. But if I am wrong...please explain.
    I have no idea why the last games have to be played in the afternoon but there might be a good reason. Unfortunately, even very innocuous enquiries - with no agenda attached - don't get the sort of response (in general) which help you to understand the reasons.

    I'd love to be home in my own bed on the Friday night, not stressing about getting out of Mt Buller on Saturday morning before the road gets closed

    On the negative side, the U18s have double-rounds for 9&10 which you would then be asking them to back up by playing first thing the following morning - at a pretty crucial time in the event. One can but hope that even that (if the kids view it as a problem) could be rejigged a little.

    On the positive side for change -

    a presentation would take place at a "friendly" time for even the youngest juniors to participate in (before they get too tired or too grotty)

    more juniors may attend the presentation rather than some U12s "bolting" at the conclusion of their games because they would otherwise be hanging about another 8 hours for the presentation

    people may be able to get home on the Friday

    Mt Buller themselves would avoid crossover bookings with people arriving for the Mt Buller Porsche Sprint on the Friday http://www.mtbullersprint.com/schedule.html

    Any possible conflict with Porsche functions could be avoided (on the website the Porsche people advertise "2030 hrs - Welcome Cocktail Party - ABOM Restaurant Mt. Buller.)

    Nobody would get "stuck" in Mt Buller on the Saturday morning because they miss exiting before the road closure at about 8.30am.

    Those seems like a few good & reasonable suggestions for change. However, if there are better reasons for leaving things as they are, please tell us. Especially those of us who represent a group of junior players - we can then pass that information on and put out our own spot fires.

    This sort of answer (on the road closure for example) doesn't help and only leads to people like myself posting the kind of cranky message I did earlier
    All persons staying at the Chalet will have no problems - the shuttle will get them to the bus etc on the morning of the 22nd. persona staying elsewhere can still access the shuttles etc to get off the mountain and meet the v-line buses.

    Others staying elsewhere will have to time their departures to coordinate - people leaving by own transport - my strong suggestion is people should stay at the Chalet rather than elsewhere.
    Libby (attempting to be constructive )
    Last edited by Libby; 15-10-2004 at 07:17 PM.

  12. #57
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby
    On the negative side, the U18s have double-rounds for 9&10 which you would then be asking them to back up by playing first thing the following morning - at a pretty crucial time in the event. One can but hope that even that (if the kids view it as a problem) could be rejigged a little.
    I realise there must be two double up rounds. The first is on Wednesday 12th when rounds 2 & 3 are played. However I must admit I can see no reason why the next double up has to be so late in the event and could not be on Saturday 15th immediately after the first rest day when it could be rounds 5 & 6 that double up. This would have the double up at a less crucial time of the event and would allow a single round per day for the remainder of the tournament.
    The added advantage of this would then be that the U18's could play their last round games also starting at 9.30am and would allow the presentation to occur much earlier than 8pm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libby
    Those seems like a few good & reasonable suggestions for change. However, if there are better reasons for leaving things as they are, please tell us. Especially those of us who represent a group of junior players - we can then pass that information on and put out our own spot fires.

    This sort of answer (on the road closure for example) doesn't help and only leads to people like myself posting the kind of cranky message I did earlier
    I'm neither a junior nor a parent of a child but I consider myself "junior chess" friendly and your points all make sense to me.
    Let us hope those making the decisions take heed of the recomendations.

  13. #58
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    Am new to this...why is there a presentation so late in the day? I heard someone mention that I will not be able to get off the mountain inthe morning. I guess that means I will have to leave straight after my kid's game. We usually make a point of staying for the presentation...win or lose. Not this time

  14. #59
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bishop e3
    Am new to this...why is there a presentation so late in the day? I heard someone mention that I will not be able to get off the mountain inthe morning. I guess that means I will have to leave straight after my kid's game. We usually make a point of staying for the presentation...win or lose. Not this time
    The organisers are discussing this matter now and will be for a couple of days most likely.

    Garvin Gray
    Mt Buller Chess Tournaments Organiser

  15. #60
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bishop e3
    Am new to this...why is there a presentation so late in the day? I heard someone mention that I will not be able to get off the mountain inthe morning. I guess that means I will have to leave straight after my kid's game. We usually make a point of staying for the presentation...win or lose. Not this time
    contact George - his e-mail address is

    georgeshoward@hotmail.com

    I would urge anyone who feels this needs to be changed to contact him.

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