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  1. #16
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    the juniors are not subsidising the adults in any way shape or form. with all due respect, there are many threads on mt buller in the mt buller chess section, which we are in. I would start with mt buller announcement thread.
    Can I also suggest (briefly I promise) that the forum - even the announcement thread - is not really where people should have to go (nor should anyone with a serious interest in the image of Aus Chess want them to go) to get details on the Juniors.

    Or, if it is where you want people to go and it is where you want to provide up-to-the-minute details and basic information, you should make that clear to people as they enter the website. The website then operating as a window to the forum itself

  2. #17
    chmod -x /bin/chmod
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    I'm rebuilding that info in the word document, and putting online sign up forms etc. You can also pay with CC online.

  3. #18
    CC International Master Mischa's Avatar
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    Dear Libby,
    I'm glad to see that although i've "noidea" the whole site is pretty much user unfriendly to othes as well. As families we have to book and make arrangements for siblings and our juniors when they are not playing chess. For those who are staying at the Mecure this may be easier, but for those of us who have already spent a fortune in travellling the continent this year in the name of chess...we can't afford the Mecure and so will have no access to activities. Is there some way we can organise things to do for players and siblings?
    My husband and I will be there and willling to help in any way we can.

  4. #19
    CC International Master Mischa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    the juniors are not subsidising the adults in any way shape or form. with all due respect, there are many threads on mt buller in the mt buller chess section, which we are in. I would start with mt buller announcement thread.
    Tell me again how the juniors are not subsidising the adults.. I have "noidea" how this works

  5. #20
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noidea
    Tell me again how the juniors are not subsidising the adults.. I have "noidea" how this works
    Kerry Stead is the chief contact for the Australian Junior, so ill let him answer the questions regarding the Australian Junior Championships.

  6. #21
    CC International Master Mischa's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    Kerry Stead is the chief contact for the Australian Junior, so ill let him answer the questions regarding the Australian Junior Championships.
    Then why do you make assertive comments regarding same? If you have information, don't just allude to it...share it...please.
    Last edited by noidea; 09-10-2004 at 11:38 PM. Reason: spelling mistake

  7. #22
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noidea
    Then why do you make assertive comments regarding same? If you have information, don't just allude to it...share it...please.
    sorry, just have become a little battle scarred by anything i say on here from posters i dont know.

    The australian open and australian junior tournaments have been organised as two COMPLETELY separate tournaments. They have very little in common with each other, expect for being held at mt buller and having mercure/accor as sponsors.

    Here is the prize break down for the Australian Junior championships.

    Entry fee is $55 early, $75 late

    Position Amount
    1st Place $1,000
    2nd Place $400
    3rd Place $200
    4th Place $150
    5th Place $100
    Under 16
    1st Place $400
    2nd Place $150
    Under 14
    1st Place $350
    2nd Place $150
    Girls
    1st Place $500
    2nd Place $200
    3rd Place $150
    4th Place $100
    5th Place $100
    Under 16
    1st Place $300
    2nd Place $150
    Under 14
    1st Place $250
    2nd Place $100
    Trophies $650
    TOTAL $5,800

    For us to break even financially, we require approximately 100 entries. So as you can see, the juniors are not being used to fund the australian open.

    If you would also like the prize break down for the u12, please ask and ill give that. It also has a different prize structure and is also not being used to fund the australian open.

  8. #23
    CC International Master Mischa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    sorry, just have become a little battle scarred by anything i say on here from posters i dont know.

    The australian open and australian junior tournaments have been organised as two COMPLETELY separate tournaments. They have very little in common with each other, expect for being held at mt buller and having mercure/accor as sponsors.

    Here is the prize break down for the Australian Junior championships.

    Entry fee is $55 early, $75 late

    Position Amount
    1st Place $1,000
    2nd Place $400
    3rd Place $200
    4th Place $150
    5th Place $100
    Under 16
    1st Place $400
    2nd Place $150
    Under 14
    1st Place $350
    2nd Place $150
    Girls
    1st Place $500
    2nd Place $200
    3rd Place $150
    4th Place $100
    5th Place $100
    Under 16
    1st Place $300
    2nd Place $150
    Under 14
    1st Place $250
    2nd Place $100
    Trophies $650
    TOTAL $5,800

    For us to break even financially, we require approximately 100 entries. So as you can see, the juniors are not being used to fund the australian open.

    If you would also like the prize break down for the u12, please ask and ill give that. It also has a different prize structure and is also not being used to fund the australian open.
    Why would I need a break down of the under 12's.
    Is there anyone who can help me with activities and details about those juniors who are not "Mecurees" and so have to fend for themselves re; entertainment. Most of us can't afford the reasonable rates offered at the Mecure...not when we have to buy meals as well. Most of us with juniors also have spouses and siblings to accommodate as well...the demands of chess dictate that family holidays must be taken sometimes in conjunction with tournaments.

    If you know who I am, which you seem to, then you will appreciate how much chess has cost me this year.
    Last edited by noidea; 10-10-2004 at 08:21 PM. Reason: spelling

  9. #24
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    At one point the organising committee seemed to be receptive to the idea that they were going to have to be more proactive in organising activities for the juniors. I asked Libby to detail a number of ideas, (I knew she had been spending hours prowling the net). I passed these ideas onto the committee (I only view myself as organising the schools comp and not really part of the committee!).

    Since then I think viewpoints have hardened and it seems to be if you stay at the Mercure you will have things to do, if you don't then it is up to you to organise your own activities. In many ways this is fair - you get what you pay for. So I think the non-mercurees are going to have to organise their own stuff. Maybe even a loose social committe could be formed with a person from Vic, NSW and ACT co-operating and exchanging ideas? I am sure Libby would be happy to work with noidea. I am also sure we non-mercurees would welcome mercurees to join in.

    Anyway here are the results of Libby's research as passed onto the organising committee. Apart from these, I though we could get some informal "matches" going - soccer, basketball etc.

    In Mt Buller itself -

    Summer walks http://www.mtbuller.com.au/activities/hiking.html Don't know how popular these might be but maybe the "summer trail map which shows you the variety of walks available and gives you directions to find them" which can be collected from the Mt Buller Post Office could be distributed to everyone.

    Alpine Spa http://www.mtbuller.com.au/activities/alpinespa.html & http://www.breathtaker.com.au/onhigh.htm hmm - not for the kids really (let arosar know about the geisha tubs though - we don't have to tell him the geisha isn't included).

    Climbing Wall http://www.mtbuller.com.au/activities/climbing.html & http://www.latrobe.edu.au/mtbuller/SportsCentre.html at Cost: $44.00 p.p. per hour for 1 - 3 people. $11 per additional person. Perhaps a coordinated booking could be made so there is a day (or days) when chess has booked the climbing wall. Coordination is also needed because each kid needs someone to do the belaying (?), ie feeding the rope out, so they can't just go alone or with only one adult for a group of kids.

    Mountain Biking http://www.mtbuller.com.au/activities/biking.html there is per hour individual hire or the opportunity for guided rides (min 5 people). It could be good for older kids as the guided rides include rocketing down the mountain (ie real mountain biking).

    Roller blading http://www.mtbuller.com.au/activitie...erblading.html Could be quite promising. You can hire them for scooting around the village but also to play in-line hockey in the Great Hall. Assuming you can skate indoors then, could it be hired for a "roller-disco" or something? I know they had the disco in Adelaide, this could be something a bit novel so you have fewer boys mooching around - they'll be staggering about breaking ankles instead.

    Horse Riding http://www.mtbuller.com.au/activities/horseriding.html & http://www.pvr.com.au/activities.htm for enthusiasts I think but they do offer kids pony rides.

    Cinema http://www.latrobe.edu.au/mtbuller/cinema.html Normally only Saturday nights (in Summer) but can be booked for groups @ $650/night - "If your group has a movie that it would like to see, give us a few weeks notice and we'll screen it 'just for you' at a special time or on another night. Cost: $650.00 for a single screening." They also offer concession entry (for normal screenings) for groups of 15 or more @ $7.50pp or $6.50 for school groups. Normal, individual rates are reasonable @ $12.50 adults and $8.50 concession. I also found this - http://www.breathtaker.com.au/events.htm#jan "Weekends Every Saturday Night Pinnacle Valley Resort's Cinema Under the Stars (weather permitting)" That has great novelty value but would require a shuttle (or shuttles) as the resort is at the base of Mt Buller.

    Tennis http://www.mtbuller.com.au/activities/tennis.html There are outdoor courts at Mt Buller & indoor courts at LaTrobe. Could someone go to the trouble of coordinating a mini tournament (round robin). Kids could sign up for a nominal entry fee (to cover court hire) and play one game a day (single set) towards winning a small, novelty type (movie ticket?) prize in their age group. Would all be very social or could have a soacila nd a competitive division for kids who can really play. Sometimes it's easier to have a little competition set up than to have kids scrounging a partner all the time. Could also work if kids wanted to get together their own basketball, in-line hockey or soccer team for social but organised competition, scheduled to fit around game times. They could form their own team or just register and we make them into teams.

    Museum - http://www.nama.org.au/ Open Sundays & Mondays. Not sure if this will really enthuse the kids.

    Bus Trips - Looking at the Mansfield-Mt Buller website http://www.mansfield-mtbuller.com.au/, I'm not convinced there is a lot in the area which will make for an exciting outing for the kids. Roman's suggestions about historic huts, scenic waterways and wineries can be drawn almost directly from here. The Visit Victoria website for the region http://www4.visitvictoria.com/displa...8ECD/vvt.vhtml doesn't offer a lot more for kids other than more museums etc. The most promising venue for a day trip is probably Glenrowan if you are up for the kitsch Ned Kelly story. Using their route planner it's about 1 hr 45mins each way. I was hoping somewhere like Sovereign Hill might be within easy drive but (again using the route planner) thats more like 4 hrs. The Visit Victoria website doesn't have an email enquiry service but it might be worth contacting them for suggestions, particularly for U12s, of places within 1-2 hours travel of Mt Buller for a day trip. From their website - "General tourism enquiries and brochures For information on attractions, accommodation, transport and upcoming events in Melbourne and Victoria, or to request a brochure, call the Victorian Tourism Information Service on 132 842 (Australia only)"
    Last edited by jenni; 11-10-2004 at 11:16 AM.

  10. #25
    CC International Master Mischa's Avatar
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    Wow! Thanks Jenni. It is wonderful to see the amount of research you have undertaken. Perhaps we can reconnoitre in december. Some less cost or better still "no " cost activities would be great...for siblings as well. At leasst 'he who cannot be named" henceforth regarded to as "MacBeth" was aware of the problems with whole families attending this out of the way tournament. You are probably right about the states organising events, but you must be aware of the "state" of our "state's" juior chess. Would like to help...just let me think on a few ideas..not easy for "noidea"

  11. #26
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenni
    Since then I think viewpoints have hardened and it seems to be if you stay at the Mercure you will have things to do, if you don't then it is up to you to organise your own activities.
    the viewpoint hardening is not reflective of all on the 'main' committee.

  12. #27
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    What do you get for nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by noidea
    You are probably right about the states organising events, but you must be aware of the "state" of our "state's" junior chess.
    Is this the same Mrs noidea who argued that her son's entry into the VIC Junior OPEN should not attract a surcharge levied because he was not a member of an affiliated Club?

    I am sure the Chess VIC Executive would welcome you joining the Committee to work on junior chess activities.

    starter

  13. #28
    CC International Master Mischa's Avatar
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    well, starter,as a fairly recent member of your chessclub, I am still getting used to the way things are done there. If you weren't so far away from where we live and if I didn't have other committments with non chess playing members of my family, I would be more than happy to be involved.
    Please believe me I meant no offence to your club, I think you do a wonderful job. I was refering instead to the lack of a state junior chess organisation. Surely someone who has more of an idea would be of better service on the committee.

  14. #29
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenni
    At one point the organising committee seemed to be receptive to the idea that they were going to have to be more proactive in organising activities for the juniors. I asked Libby to detail a number of ideas, (I knew she had been spending hours prowling the net). I passed these ideas onto the committee (I only view myself as organising the schools comp and not really part of the committee!).

    Since then I think viewpoints have hardened and it seems to be if you stay at the Mercure you will have things to do, if you don't then it is up to you to organise your own activities.
    I'm happy to be part of an informal social committee for the event. Other parents/junior organisers who would like to be involved (or just included) can drop me a PM or email.

    How well regarded might we be if we ran such a committee with the line that those staying at the Mercure are not entitled to participate in any activities we organise? After all, those at the Mercure will be overwhelmed with the excitement of their pool and building muscles in the gym and can't possibly have time to mix with the unclean ones ...

    (Hopefully everyone can read that as a not-to-be-taken-seriously post.)

    We were completely upfront, right from the start, that the Mercure is not overpriced for a top quality hotel but it is still more expensive than alternatives and does not have enough rooms with the main facilities (kitchens) that families require. We are there for nearly two weeks for goodness sake! These are not individual adult players, these are parents & families with non-playing siblings.

    We don't want a "them-and-us" juniors. Of course there are people paying extra to stay at the Mercure and they expect to get "extra" for that money so good luck to them with the pool etc. But ask the kids who are staying there how much fun will they be having when they grab their towel for a swim but have to leave their buddies at the door? How much fun are the sports and activities when you can't ask your friends to come and play with you because they stayed at the wrong place

    Get over it. Everyone makes accommodation arrangements to suit their family and financial circumstances. We can't all make those decisions with purely the interests of the sponsor in mind. To keep the sponsor happy and act in the interests (?) of Australian Chess must my family pay an extra $600+? And then eat out for every non-included lunch & dinner? I can't afford it and I'm sick of hearing about it.

    I'm going to the juniors with my daughter. We have loads of ACT kids going and it seems a good number from the other states are on the way. If you've got ideas for activities etc (inclusive activities that is) then get in touch and we'll see what we can come up with to really make this event a fantastic, fun couple of weeks for everyone.

  15. #30
    CC International Master Mischa's Avatar
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    Well said Libby.

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