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  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Underpants
    Lefties make me wanna puke.

    is Christmas sharing a leftist conspiracy - just like tax
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    is Christmas sharing a leftist conspiracy - just like tax
    Of course not. Christmas sharing is voluntary, out of one's own pockets. Leftardism involves taking from other people by force.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Of course not. Christmas sharing is voluntary, out of one's own pockets. Leftardism involves taking from other people by force.
    what about tithing like dictated by the Bible - I have seen pressure put on followers- and it is even God-sanctioned.
    At least the Govt mostly provides value for money with our taxes: hospitals, roads, dams, whereas the churches only provide backward ignorant superstitious brainwashing rubbish for our tithe
    Last edited by antichrist; 07-01-2012 at 11:09 AM.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    At least the Govt mostly provides value for money with our taxes: hospitals, roads, dams, ...
    pink batts...
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    pink batts...
    but that was the contractor's problem if any,nothing to do with the govt so says my scant view of it
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    what about tithing like dictated by the Bible - I have seen pressure put on followers- and it is even God-sanctioned.
    At least the Govt mostly provides value for money with our taxes: hospitals, roads, dams, whereas the churches only provide backward ignorant superstitious brainwashing rubbish for our tithe
    I am waiting for a comeback from Jono for this beauty

    I even feel triumphant about this one
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    If it is okay for Christianity to charge 10% tax (tithe) then why can't the state also tax? I have been told that if you add all the tax committments in the Bible it comes to about 35%

    Not even the luxury of a flat tax as the teabaggers want
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    If it is okay for Christianity to charge 10% tax (tithe) then why can't the state also tax? I have been told that if you add all the tax committments in the Bible it comes to about 35%

    Not even the luxury of a flat tax as the teabaggers want
    Tithing and percentage-based giving to the church or ministries is basically an Old Testament concept. You can't just add up OT tax percentages like that. New Testamant giving is based on generosity and what one believes God wants them to give. See Second Corinthians chapters 8 and 9 e.g.
    Last edited by Adamski; 08-01-2012 at 04:49 PM.
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

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  9. #9
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski
    Tithing and percentage-based giving to the church or ministries is basically an Old Testament concept. You can't just add up OT tax percentages like that. New Testamant giving is based on generosity and what one believes God wants them to give. See Second Corinthians chapters 8 and 9 e.g.
    It may be OT but the NT churches still attempt to charge it, and often successfully. Should they disown it like that do with lot of other OT baggage? And go broke at same time?
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  10. #10
    CC International Master Goughfather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski
    Tithing and percentage-based giving to the church or ministries is basically an Old Testament concept. You can't just add up OT tax percentages like that. New Testamant giving is based on generosity and what one believes God wants them to give. See Second Corinthians chapters 8 and 9 e.g.
    Of course, whether or not tithing remains applicable to Christians today, antichrist's question is one which deserves an answer from Jono. If as Jono believes, all Scripture is the word of God, then the regulations relating to tithing were God ordained taxation relating to the people of Israel. It is most convenient for self-described Christians such as Jono to cherry pick texts to bash people over the head with while neglecting passages which provide for a state/God mandated safety net for the poor.
    "People with guns don't understand. That's why they get guns. Too many misunderstandings." - Jerry Seinfeld, The Little Kicks

  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Goughfather
    Of course, whether or not tithing remains applicable to Christians today, antichrist's question is one which deserves an answer from Jono.
    Yet, typical of leftard dishonesty, you didn't rip AC for claiming it was 10%, as you have "fundamentalists". You have rightly pointed out that it was more like 235, not that it was news to me. But sure, 23% is good enough for God, so it should be good enough for our government. But look at the current brawl in the UK, where the envy-coddlers are objecting to reducing the top 50% tax bracket.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goughfather
    If as Jono believes, all Scripture is the word of God, then the regulations relating to tithing were God ordained taxation relating to the people of Israel.
    If you and AC want a theocracy, then advocate for it properly!

    Quote Originally Posted by Goughfather
    It is most convenient for self-described Christians such as Jono to cherry pick texts to bash people over the head with while neglecting passages which provide for a state/God mandated safety net for the poor.
    Like what? The Bible actually teaches personal generosity not a secular government bureaucracy as leftards like you and AC worship. There were also instructions to leave the corners of the field unharvested, as well as no second passes. This was to leave gleanings for the poor. But gleaning was hard work, not a handout for doing nothing.

    As Adamski said, Paul taught different things for the Church, such as "cheerful giving", but to the Church not to the government. Paul also taught generosity, but specifically said that some types of people were not to be helped. For example, those who will not work should not eat.

    Acts 5 also doesn't teach socialism. The donations were voluntary, and the money was distributed by the Apostles, not the government. Furthermore, as it turned out, it created immense social pressures to out-do each other, and ended up impoverishing the Jerusalem church so much that Paul had to ask the church at Rome to help bail them out (Romans 15:26)
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    from JOno

    Acts 5 also doesn't teach socialism. The donations were voluntary, and the money was distributed by the Apostles, not the government. Furthermore, as it turned out, it created immense social pressures to out-do each other, and ended up impoverishing the Jerusalem church so much that Paul had to ask the church at Rome to help bail them out (Romans 15:26)
    __________________

    would they have reached a higher plane in Heaven for out doing each other in donating?

    And does that lesson teach us balanced budgets?
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  13. #13
    CC International Master Goughfather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Yet, typical of leftard dishonesty, you didn't rip AC for claiming it was 10%, as you have "fundamentalists".
    Why would I? He makes no pretensions as to being a biblical scholar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    You have rightly pointed out that it was more like 235, not that it was news to me. But sure, 23% is good enough for God, so it should be good enough for our government. But look at the current brawl in the UK, where the envy-coddlers are objecting to reducing the top 50% tax bracket.
    Except that 50 percent (less in Australia) is the marginal tax rate, rather than the effective tax rate. The effective tax rate for the majority of Australians is below that 23 percent and a third percent tax rate that you're so wonderfully clever for knowing about.

    Of course, even if some people do have higher effective tax rates (although I don't see provision for tax deductions or indeed for accountants that can bring the tax rate down well below the abovementioned figure, you are no longer arguing about the principle of taxation, but merely arguing about the price.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    If you and AC want a theocracy, then advocate for it properly!
    I'm not advocating for a theocracy and I doubt AC is either. I merely point out that the Torah makes provision for a safety net for the poor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Like what? The Bible actually teaches personal generosity not a secular government bureaucracy as leftards like you and AC worship.
    The Torah does not make tithes optional and in fact does proscribe a bureacracy, effectively speaking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    There were also instructions to leave the corners of the field unharvested, as well as no second passes. This was to leave gleanings for the poor. But gleaning was hard work, not a handout for doing nothing.
    Again, it is mandated that the owners are deprived of the fruits of their labour and their private property rights. How does that fit in with your capitalist ideals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Acts 5 also doesn't teach socialism.
    I never said it did. Indeed I never even mentioned Acts 5.

    You can't explain away the comprehensive bureaucracy and the broad safety net envisaged in the Torah by appealing to unrelated proof texts. You haven't turned Marcionite on me, have you, Jono? You still believe that the edicts in the Torah are divinely mandated, don't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Furthermore, as it turned out, it created immense social pressures to out-do each other, and ended up impoverishing the Jerusalem church so much that Paul had to ask the church at Rome to help bail them out (Romans 15:26)
    Ahh, so that's your proof text for the rescue of Goldman Sachs, is it?

    EDIT: Before you engage on some kind of rant about the banks owning the Democrats, let me just state two things: Firstly, that the banks have an unfortunate strangehold over Democrats and Republicans alike and that both sides are responsible and that secondly, my comment was merely in jest considering your reference to bailing out the churches. Let's focus on your disregard of the Torah and not get drawn down tangents.
    Last edited by Goughfather; 13-01-2012 at 12:46 AM.
    "People with guns don't understand. That's why they get guns. Too many misunderstandings." - Jerry Seinfeld, The Little Kicks

  14. #14
    CC International Master Goughfather's Avatar
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    It looks like Jono has given up the ghost and conceded the tithing argument to AC ...
    "People with guns don't understand. That's why they get guns. Too many misunderstandings." - Jerry Seinfeld, The Little Kicks

  15. #15
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughfather
    It looks like Jono has given up the ghost and conceded the tithing argument to AC ...
    I very much doubt it! As both of you are (former) Queenslanders (and indeed Logan CC ites) , I guess you can give each other time to fit this debate in with the demands of life.
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

    Psephological insight. "Controversial will only lose you votes. Courageous will lose you the election." Sir Humphrey Appleby on Yes Minister.

    Favorite movie line: Girl friend Cathy to Jack Ryan in "Sum of all Fears". "What kind of emergency does an historian have?".

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