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  1. #1
    CC International Master Brian_Jones's Avatar
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    Oceania Chess Confederation (OCC)

    The recent history of Oceania chess is now available at www.oceaniachess.com

  2. #2
    CC International Master Brian_Jones's Avatar
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    I will attend the FIDE Commission meetings and FIDE Executive Board meeting in Krakow in October this year as President of FIDE Zone 3.6 (Oceania) and President of the Oceania Chess Confederation (OCC).

    I will be attending at my own expense and I will also be representing the New Zealand Chess Federation.

    Please email your Federation with formal views on any items on the Krakow agenda. I can then take the Federations' views into account when casting my votes.

    In July this year I was defeated in my application to become the Australian Chess Federation Permenent Delegate to FIDE. This position was awarded to Dr Kevin Bonham after a secret ballot(s).

    Kevin Bonham will I understand be travelling to Krakow with funding provided by the Australian Chess Federation, which to date has not yet committed to joining the OCC.

  3. #3
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    Anex 11 of the 82nd FIDE Congress in Krakow next month is an Application of Oceania Chess Confederation to join FIDE as an affiliated International Organisation in accordance with section 2 of the FIDE handbook.
    The application is from Brian Jones the Oceania President. OCC requests the right to award FIDE titles, requests subsidies from FIDE and a large range of other matters affecting the Oceania Zone.

    Section 2 of the FIDE handbook is clear. Members of FIDE are national chess federations. Oceania has six FIDE Member countries. No application should be lodged with FIDE without the approval of the FIDE member countries.

    The Australian Chess Federation had not been asked to consider the proposal – and nor does it agree with the proposal (in fact quite the opposite) in my discussion last Friday with ACF. Was the New Zealand Chess Federation asked to consider the proposals?

    The ACF recently appointed a Vice-President as the ACF delegate to FIDE replacing our long standing retiring delegate. Mr Jones had been enthusiastic but not elected to act as Australian FIDE delegate.

    The correct procedure for any application for Mr Jones is to consult and discuss his proposals with the FIDE member countries federations before any application is made to FIDE. Any application that bypasses the ACF and NZCF is simply incorrect.

    I believe strongly as do my colleagues that as no discussions of the application of OCC to join FIDE has taken place that ACF and NZCF should ask FIDE to defer consideration of any application until the 2012 FIDE Congress.

    Personally I have always thought the Oceania sub-zone should never have been created (based on the number of players rated in the world top 2000) and Australia should return to the Asian Zone. Four of the six Oceania FIDE Countries have no players ranked in the world top 24,000 players and no-one even close to 2100. Australia and NZ combined have only 4 players (all titled) ranked in the top 2000 active players in the world - hardly a world zone. Four of the six countries are ranked below country no 125 with NZ at 78 and Australia 57 (with 90 titled players already!) Mr Jones has often expressed the view that there should be more and more titled players in Oceania and now requests the right to award FIDE titles. The ACF and NZCF must act on the subject of annex 11 and advise FIDE of their position before the 15 Oct FIDE Congress meeting.

    The ACF should also advise FIDE that the Australian Chess Federation has not joined the Oceania Chess Confederation so the OCC has very little significance.

  4. #4
    CC International Master Brian_Jones's Avatar
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    ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************

    FIDE has placed Australia in Zone 3.6 (Oceania) within Asia.

    New Zealand, PNG, Fiji, Palau and Solomon Islands are all happy to be current members of FIDE Zone 3.6. They formed OCC (with encouragement from FIDE) so that they could work together on a number of development projects and no longer be solely reliant on the Zone President alone.

    If Australia does not want to work with the other members of the Oceania Zone it can apply to join/form another Zone (and/or stay out of OCC).

    But why would Australia do this? Why would Australia decide to stay out of the OCC and not contribute to the development of chess in the Oceania region?

    ************************************************** ************************************************** *************************
    Last edited by Brian_Jones; 12-09-2011 at 05:03 PM.

  5. #5
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    The application by Brian Jones to FIDE that Peter Parr refers to was tabled at the most recent ACF Council meeting of 31 July having been sent by Brian to the ACF some time earlier. No decision to either support or oppose it has been taken at this stage and no explicit request from Brian that we support it has been tabled. Nevertheless he did advise us of it.

    A distinction needs to be drawn between the FIDE Oceania Zone and the OCC. Australia is within the former by virtue of FIDE classification but has not yet committed to joining the latter (or been declared a member of it by FIDE).

    The ACF resolved at the July 31 meeting to advise FIDE that it has not yet decided to join the OCC. However the matter of whether or not to join the OCC is currently being considered by the ACF Executive for a recommendation to the ACF Council.

    I can't speak for the ACF in terms of stating a single reason for caution about joining the OCC thus far, but I will say that most of the concerns I am aware of have been not with the concept of regional development but with how it will be executed, including with the procedural foundations of the body.

    I may comment further on other contents of the above posts later so nothing should be inferred from my non-response to any comment.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 12-09-2011 at 06:42 PM.

  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian_Jones
    ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************

    FIDE has placed Australia in Zone 3.6 (Oceania) within Asia.

    New Zealand, PNG, Fiji, Palau and Solomon Islands are all happy to be current members of FIDE Zone 3.6. They formed OCC (with encouragement from FIDE) so that they could work together on a number of development projects and no longer be solely reliant on the Zone President alone.

    If Australia does not want to work with the other members of the Oceania Zone it can apply to join/form another Zone (and/or stay out of OCC).

    But why would Australia do this? Why would Australia decide to stay out of the OCC and not contribute to the development of chess in the Oceania region?

    ************************************************** ************************************************** *************************
    Australia's being a member of OCC would make sense if the Oceania Zone made sense. But it doesn't. The Zone comprises Australia as the overwhelmingly dominant power, New Zealand who would like to be, Fiji which isn't and a whole lot of island States whose interest in chess is minimal and likely to remain so. The idea of converting Melanesians to chess is likely to have little better chance, if any, than converting them to Christianity as undertaken by missionaries of various Christian sects in the 19th Century contrary to their custom.

    As for the OCC it is said to have been formed though when, where and how is by no means clear. A rather bizarre meeting was held in New Zealand in January, clearly on the assumption that the body already existed. That meeting purported to adopt "Statutes" of the OCC. But the meeting was not a meeting of a kind provided for in the Statutes and, after adopting them, acted in contravention of them in several respects. Now I know that Brian doesn't give a damn about rules and regulations but adopting some and then breaking them is going a bit too far. As for the "Statutes", they are so deficient that they are almost worse than useless. For example, as an hors d'oeuvre they refer to certain office bearers but contain no provisions for their appointment.

    Probably the ACF should join the OCC just to get it operating on a proper basis, if for no other reason. But if the OCC is not accepted by FIDE, it's a deader duck than it is at present.

    DJ
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

    In Arsène we Trust!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    But if the OCC is not accepted by FIDE, it's a deader duck than it is at present.

    DJ
    So shall we assume that OCC is simply a brain-child of BJ but has nothing to do with Fide/ACF?
    What happens then if I form my own Oceania Association? can I? I got a friend living in Png and another one in Fiji...we can get something going
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
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  8. #8
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    So shall we assume that OCC is simply a brain-child of BJ but has nothing to do with Fide/ACF?
    No; my understanding is that there is high-level FIDE support for the OCC concept and it is not something Brian just suddenly came up with of his own accord.

  9. #9
    CC International Master Brian_Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    Australia's being a member of OCC would make sense if the Oceania Zone made sense. But it doesn't. The Zone comprises Australia as the overwhelmingly dominant power, New Zealand who would like to be, Fiji which isn't and a whole lot of island States whose interest in chess is minimal and likely to remain so. The idea of converting Melanesians to chess is likely to have little better chance, if any, than converting them to Christianity as undertaken by missionaries of various Christian sects in the 19th Century contrary to their custom.
    This comment by an ACF Vice-President is ill-informed and seems plain racist to me.

    I am reminded of the story told in a Chessbase article by Casto Abundo about former FIDE President Campomanes. Campo was promoting chess throughout Asia and wanted new Zones for the Far east and Oceania. British delegate Harry Golombek made a snide remark "We might as well have penguins and polar bears playing chess." Campo was insulted and stood up in the FIDE General Assembly and promised that a Philippine team would one day beat England. It subsequently did in the last round of an Olympiad thus relegating England to the B Group!

    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    ......Now I know that Brian doesn't give a damn about rules and regulations....DJ
    I have a great deal of respect for rules and regulations of non-profit organisations generally.

    But there is too much unnecessary regulation in Australian chess and I prefer the Statutes of the Asian Chess Federation and others where the emphasis is on chess and not on petty, restrictive by-laws.

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    Last edited by Brian_Jones; 13-09-2011 at 01:18 PM.

  10. #10
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian_Jones
    This comment by an ACF Vice-President is ill-informed and seems plain racist to me.

    I am reminded of the story told in a Chessbase article by Casto Abundo about former FIDE President Campomanes. Campo was promoting chess throughout Asia and wanted new Zones for the Far east and Oceania. British delegate Harry Golombek made a snide remark "We might as well have penguins and polar bears playing chess." Campo was insulted and stood up in the FIDE General Assembly and promised that a Philippine team would one day beat England. It subsequently did in the last round of an Olympiad thus relegating England to the B Group!





    I have a great deal of respect for rules and regulations of non-profit organisations generally.

    But there is too much unnecessary regulation in Australian chess and I prefer the Statutes of the Asian Chess Federation and others where the emphasis is on chess and not on petty, restrictive by-laws.

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    No Brian, my remark was not racist at all. It was based on the effects of missionaries in the South Pacific trying to convert indigenous peoples to Christianity and to abandon their customs. This is a matter of some contention not only for anthropologists but also for the governments of those countries. The proselitysing of chess among peoples for whom it has no interest is remarkably similar. I note also in this regard that PNG chess seems to be the province mainly of white men some of them non-resident.

    As for the "Statutes", I am surprised, though perhaps unrealistically, that you should defend them. The one example I gave of their sloppiness and thus uselessness should have been enough to put you on guard but there is a lot more. The are, in short, appallingly drafted, not in a technical, but in a substantive sense.

    Moreover, I am not yet satisfied that the body has even been properly formed or of the legality of the New Zealand meeting. Curiously, its minutes show apologies from a number of people who would seem to have had no right to attend.

    DJ
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

    In Arsène we Trust!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    Probably the ACF should join the OCC just to get it operating on a proper basis, if for no other reason. But if the OCC is not accepted by FIDE, it's a deader duck than it is at present.
    On a "proper" basis...like the way the ACF operates.

    Brian, don't you know -- official chess organisations are for having meetings and shuffling papers... how dare you suggest that they actually DO something. It's in the statutes ... "to foster and control chess". Nowhere does it say to DO anything.

    And chess is for CHESS players... civilized people. PROPER people. Not for humdrum, uncivilized, barbarians who don't know how to play chess!

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChessGuru
    On a "proper" basis...like the way the ACF operates.

    Brian, don't you know -- official chess organisations are for having meetings and shuffling papers... how dare you suggest that they actually DO something. It's in the statutes ... "to foster and control chess". Nowhere does it say to DO anything.

    And chess is for CHESS players... civilized people. PROPER people. Not for humdrum, uncivilized, barbarians who don't know how to play chess!
    David - you are just being silly; neither funny nor even cynical - just a goat.

    DJ
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

    In Arsène we Trust!

  13. #13
    CC International Master Brian_Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    No Brian, my remark was not racist at all. It was based on the effects of missionaries in the South Pacific trying to convert indigenous peoples to Christianity and to abandon their customs. This is a matter of some contention not only for anthropologists but also for the governments of those countries. The proselitysing of chess among peoples for whom it has no interest is remarkably similar. I note also in this regard that PNG chess seems to be the province mainly of white men some of them non-resident.
    Yes, it certainly was racist (and your new remarks now include a few big words that require an english dictionary).

    Did you know that there are almost as many chess players in the Solomon Islands as there are in Canberra.

    Also, the Polynesians and Micronesians play chess also!


    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_jessop
    Moreover, I am not yet satisfied that the body has even been properly formed or of the legality of the New Zealand meeting. Curiously, its minutes show apologies from a number of people who would seem to have had no right to attend. DJ
    Everyone has the right to attend OCC meetings (and can apologise for non-attendence). But only six people can vote.

    Our aim is to organise events and develop chess generally. Meetings are secondary!

  14. #14
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian_Jones
    Yes, it certainly was racist (and your new remarks now include a few big words that require an english dictionary).

    Did you know that there are almost as many chess players in the Solomon Islands as there are in Canberra.

    Also, the Polynesians and Micronesians play chess also!




    Everyone has the right to attend OCC meetings (and can apologise for non-attendence). But only six people can vote.



    Our aim is to organise events and develop chess generally. Meetings are secondary!
    Thanks for your observations, Brian.

    I particularly like your comparison between Canberra and the Solomon Islands given that there are a very small number of active players in Canberra - the lowest in years and fewer than 50 years ago.

    As for the meeting, there is nothing anywhere that deals with attendance. Indeed there is nothing to identify what kind of meeting it was. Moreover that is a very minor point compared with the major ones you have not yet addressed and more major ones that I have not yet mentioned.

    Finally, your racism is allegation is plain nonsense, as well as offensive, and merely reflects your ignorance of the topic.

    DJ
    Last edited by Denis_Jessop; 14-09-2011 at 01:22 PM.
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

    In Arsène we Trust!

  15. #15
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian_Jones
    Everyone has the right to attend OCC meetings (and can apologise for non-attendence). But only six people can vote.
    Hmmm. I believe you're including delegates from Aus, NZ, Fiji, PNG, Palau and Solomon Islands, unless someone has joined you haven't mentioned.

    If so then the assumption above is based on:

    * the meeting of a body that had never actually voted to create itself
    * the use of restricted voting rights to pass a motion supposed to create them
    * and the false assumption (as of this instance) that one of the above is even a member

    What on earth would be done in the present situation if there was a close motion that later led to a serious dispute where people used the above technical arguments to dispute whether something that had been passed was even valid I have no idea, but the mere possibility explains why getting the procedure right can matter.

    At least if the OCC is accepted by FIDE then there may be recourse to FIDE to sort out any intractable constitutional problems but at the moment there is nothing.

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