Religious education in State schools

[antichrist]

Moore is quite liberal: rabidly theistic evolutionist.

and we can takeit that that is a mortal sin?

[Rincewind]

and we can takeit that that is a mortal sin?

Observation of the natural world never discovered anything true. Everyone knows the copious evidence for evolution was planted by the devil to trick people into thinking the bible was allegorical.

[antichrist]

state schools should only be teaching state religion or nothing - why give free kicks to outsiders

Musssolini he did that trick in a deal with the RCC - they accepted his Facism in return for him letting Catholicism into state schools. And they both never really recovered from the deal

[Rincewind]

state schools should only be teaching state religion or nothing - why give free kicks to outsiders

Musssolini he did that trick in a deal with the RCC - they accepted his Facism in return for him letting Catholicism into state schools. And they both never really recovered from the deal

This is not really true. Catholicism was so prevalent in Italy at the time so there was no "letting in". Although Mussolini wanted complete control of education, he also wanted the acceptance of the church. Well sort of. What he actually wanted was the support of powerful people who would not otherwise support the Fascist party - however if they are seen to be accepted by the Church then they become more palatable - certainly more palatable that the Communists. So Mussolini and the church came to a number of agreements including religious indoctrination (under the auspices of the church) in primary and secondary state schools throughout Italy.

Catholicism ceased being the official state-sponsored religion of Italy in 1984.

[.]

The linked sight was funny, if a tad perturbing, but I think this thread can serve the valuable purpose of discussing what should be done in state schools, perhaps spilling into the private sector as well.

My pre-school, primary and secondary education of religion and ethics was dismal. Truly, I believe ethics should be taught from a young age, being considered as necessary as humanities and sciences (non-social). Along with this you must inform, but not enforce, children of the different ethical systems within religions. Then, come secondary schooling, where streaming and electives occur, give students an option of further studying. Operate pre-tertiary as usual, a course in religion and ethics is offered. This, I believe, would help the economy, and certainly foreign image of this country, given the 'boat people' nonsense, by breaking down cultural barriers. If a child has studied, more to the point understood, Islam, then they are more likely to rationalise, acts of terrorism as extremists and review our own Christian/Catholic ethos with more scrutiny.

The private sector, being private, obviously see fit their way of running things and I think they are obliged at the moment to offer all the pre-tertiarys they can, religion and ethics included. However, I don't see this as being enough, considering, in most, chapel attendance is mandatory. Of course, the schools have their interests to protect, but I think as a government there are greater issues which include living up to our egalitarian ideals. If you are a parent I would take this upon yourself.

I'll put the essence of that waffle here. We need to teach ethics and acceptance as the world's population and cultures are no longer within their borders and information flows freely to even quite young people. A level of understanding this low would never be tolerate in mathematics, so why in something which is just as important?

[Hobbes]

Um, it wouldn't hurt to teach writing skills in schools either.

[Sir Cromulent Sparkles]

Um, it wouldn't hurt to teach writing skills in schools either.

im feelin yo flow bruva

skoolinz be no place fo da bibles n effix..

leave da good wordz to be lernt in da hood wiv da real g's n boss dogz.

run da street n do da deeds. they is good lernin to fed da sole n da mindz.

peace out

[antichrist]

Along with this you must inform, but not enforce, children of the different ethical systems within religions.

AC
I dont see any reason for this, unless done with a critical eye - as Hume said just by someone telling the story help makes a person believe. Lke just observing a person playing a poker machine can get one interested.

[.]

Um, it wouldn't hurt to teach writing skills in schools either.

This is a fair enough comment, especially considering my college results. I consider myself inarticulate and often lacking clarity but I just hope I communicate enough of my ideas to allow people an understanding of my opinion so they can criticise it, then I can further clarify what was indecipherable, or as is often the case, outright ill thought out.

I dont see any reason for this, unless done with a critical eye - as Hume said just by someone telling the story help makes a person believe. Lke just observing a person playing a poker machine can get one interested.

Again fair criticism, however, I am not totally convinced. The purpose of this exposure is to reduce misunderstanding between groups of different beliefs. If someone exposed is converted to that belief, they will still be exposed to opposing beliefs giving them equal opportunity to change their mind and so forth. Seeing as this education is to continue until secondary age, perhaps even past it, students will be exposed to these ideas during adolescence, when most of us are individualising ourselves and reflecting on what we 'know'. Now, of course your analogy with Poker Machines is to put religion in a negative light, which I although I agree with, in some instances, cannot be when implementing such a change into main-stream education. I admit my beliefs may be very wrong, which is why we need equal exposure of many different beliefs.

[antichrist]

what you are saying aint too bad just I went fru a religious school and I just hate anything to do with religion, I resent that adults can abuse children by teaching them such idiotic and cruel rubbish - it is disallowed in the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child - but no one wants to know about that

[.]

Which serves as anecdotal evidence for my case. Do you think, if your school had provided balanced education about different belief systems, including ethical systems like Kantian ethics, utilitarianism, virtue ethicism etc, that you might not hold such animosity towards religion? I am also keen to hear about the Rights of the Child. I'll look it up unless you have a good link at your disposal.

[Kevin Bonham]

I do think it is a good idea to teach children about the various religious and philosophical value systems. This should be done simply in the sense of factual coverage of the views and history of views of each system and should not be done by someone with a big stake in the matter. I am sceptical of the merit of making such a thing compulsory in primary school but maybe in highschool it would be useful.

However, for balance, just as ethicists would propose to include Kantian ethics (urgh), utilitarianism, virtue ethics etc, they should also include moral scepticism (the view that none of the ethical systems is philosophically valid) and also stuff like ethical egoism (the view that one's only obligation is to one's own interests). If ethics classes are just going to teach children that they have a rational obligation to be ethical and community-minded and there are a range of options as to how to do it, then that sort of thing is as bad as compulsory scripture.

I also think that any substantive comparative religion syllabus should include a brief and factual account of the various schools of modern and historic Satanism. About five minutes in a ten-week course would be sufficient.

[antichrist]

Which serves as anecdotal evidence for my case. Do you think, if your school had provided balanced education about different belief systems, including ethical systems like Kantian ethics, utilitarianism, virtue ethicism etc, that you might not hold such animosity towards religion? I am also keen to hear about the Rights of the Child. I'll look it up unless you have a good link at your disposal.

That would be correct. I love philosophy but consider religion stupid, the good parts of it they stole (without attributation) from philosphers. I have no link for that UN document. Only hard copy.

[.]

I don't find what Kevin said objectionable at all. I remember reading an article about why young children should be taught ethics but it is nothing I would stake my opinion on. I think an investigation into the benefits of this sort of teaching should be undertaken to determine whether it is optimal to introduce it during high-school or primary. Ethical Egoism and Moral Scepticism teachings are seriously validated, just as I would advocate Religious Scepticism as a mandatory teaching anywhere religion is taught.

[Sir Cromulent Sparkles]

the school is no place for either ethics or religion. BOTH have the ability to be tampered with, fixing a suggestable individuals perception irrevocably.

keep school limited to maths science enlish social studies etc.