Page 5 of 25 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 375
  1. #61
    Account Permanently Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,680

    Nice to see Amiel on a Mt B. thread again.

    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    Any dang process is repeatable.
    Good morning Amiel

    A process is only repeatable if the labour is available. Most chess labour is volunteer and is a challenge to harness. The process may not be repeatable unless there is an attraction for others to volunteer in future Mt B.'s.



    The question is: should it be repeated? What's my net present value? My cost benefit? ROI?

    I'm sure, being our resident metrics guy, that'd be what you're looking for.

    AR
    Well, Amiel. If those are the questions that you want to ask; then go right ahead and ask. You don't need my imprimatur.

    But personally, I don't think you have put your finger on the key questions.

    starter

  2. #62
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    13,073
    Quote Originally Posted by starter
    A process is only repeatable if the labour is available. Most chess labour is volunteer and is a challenge to harness. The process may not be repeatable unless there is an attraction for others to volunteer in future Mt B.'s.
    yes labour is required. that is always the case. You say 'challenge to harness' and I agree. Being able to recieve some financial compensation for your time has to help with harnessing administration help.

    Remember with this deal, the organisers are paid (not a full time wage, but a decent amount compared to the normal state of affairs). This means that some ppl might be able to take a couple or so weeks off from work (paid leave, unpaid leave etc) to run Mt Buller.

    Also for others, maybe some of the younger ppl with a get out there attitude, it presents an opportunity to get some experience dealing with an international company and to potentially get a good reputation for running sporting events, which could then lead to more employment opportunities.

  3. #63
    Account Permanently Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,680
    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    yes labour is required. that is always the case. You say 'challenge to harness' and I agree. Being able to recieve some financial compensation for your time has to help with harnessing administration help.

    Remember with this deal, the organisers are paid (not a full time wage, but a decent amount compared to the normal state of affairs). This means that some ppl might be able to take a couple or so weeks off from work (paid leave, unpaid leave etc) to run Mt Buller.

    Also for others, maybe some of the younger ppl with a get out there attitude, it presents an opportunity to get some experience dealing with an international company and to potentially get a good reputation for running sporting events, which could then lead to more employment opportunities.
    Good morning gg''

    Now that another month has gone by, are we any closer to knowing the proposal to be put to the national conference re a repeat of Mt B. in that locale? I note in the interim, george has declared this was a one-off for him. Has any other candidate paid-administrator emerged to learn from you guys?

    regards
    starter

  4. #64
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    2,701
    Quote Originally Posted by starter
    Good morning gg''

    Now that another month has gone by, are we any closer to knowing the proposal to be put to the national conference re a repeat of Mt B. in that locale? I note in the interim, george has declared this was a one-off for him. Has any other candidate paid-administrator emerged to learn from you guys?

    regards
    starter
    I can't see how it can be repeatable, as even if the Mercure/Accor want to repeat it (and that seems unlikely given the bed nights being sold??), I think the juniors will vote against it.

    While I am trying to keep an open mind until after the event, I have been approached by large numbers of parents all with the same message. "We will put up with this once, but NOT every 2 years."

  5. #65
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    13,073
    how about we just cancel it now then and just give up? We have the opportunity for a large sponsorship deal, something that we have not had before. The chance to get a foothold with a large international player, Grollo Industries and just because some parents noses are out of joint cause they have to travel a bit and it may not be ideal for them, the junior associations are going to vote against the deal.

    Well actually how is that the junior associations are going to vote against the deal? yes act has a junior association and because you dont seem to be in favour of it, you are going to vote against it, but i am only aware of nsw being another state that has a formal state junior association.

    I am well aware that things are perfect with the current arrangement and I certainly would like to have seen a few things changed or restructured and they will be if we go back in to mt buller in two years time. But that is the point, some parts of the deal can be re worked if mercure/accor are told about it, but that isnt exactly in the nature of some of the parents is it, as recent events have shown

    And if you think I am rather pissed off, damn right I am. I will probably tell my opinion as well to some parents during the junior if I hear some bitching going on, more than usual will be my limit.

    With more preparation time, we can make some changes which with more time this time, could have happened and we could have arranged more activities.

    Maybe also a slightly different organising team will also be able to organise more play activities for all concerned

    I just dont think most ppl have seen what is truly possible out of this deal. Remember we are talking about Grollo Industries, so maybe if this goes well, they might want to help with other tournaments in chess and flight deals. All this is possible if junior associations vote for the deal. If not then everyone is no further advanced and our sport remains in the 19th century.

  6. #66
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    5,046
    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    . . . just because some parents noses are out of joint cause they have to travel a bit and it may not be ideal for them, the junior associations are going to vote against the deal. . .
    Perhaps we ought to work on our PR skills. Pissing off your constituents like that? Hhmmm....

    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    And if you think I am rather pissed off, damn right I am. I will probably tell my opinion as well to some parents during the junior if I hear some bitching going on, more than usual will be my limit.
    Good luck!

    I'll place my bets on the parents.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    I just dont think most ppl have seen what is truly possible out of this deal. Remember we are talking about Grollo Industries, so maybe if this goes well, they might want to help with other tournaments in chess and flight deals.
    You and these flight deals man. You got airline stocks or something?

    What was it that our two resident-moms said: "reality check"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    All this is possible if junior associations vote for the deal. If not then everyone is no further advanced and our sport remains in the 19th century.
    Why should we, the people of chess, be dictated to?

    AR

  7. #67
    Account Permanently Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,680
    gg''

    Back up a bit mate, and cool off.

    Now we have been on this topic of 'repeatibility' for a while. And you and I calmly agreed back around post #61 and #62 that the key part of repeatability is the attraction of a paid resource to be head honcho.

    Points raised by 'jenni' and 'Amiel' may be interesting, but they are not the key.
    As we approach the national conference, has a candidate emerged to learn from you guys and the template, given that george has declared that he is a one-off only?

    You might be busy at the moment, but this question of honcho-succession needs some consideration.

    starter

  8. #68
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    5,667
    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    how about we just cancel it now then and just give up? We have the opportunity for a large sponsorship deal, something that we have not had before. The chance to get a foothold with a large international player, Grollo Industries and just because some parents noses are out of joint cause they have to travel a bit and it may not be ideal for them, the junior associations are going to vote against the deal.
    Look, it's quite simple. If a proposed deal is good for the juniors, then on the whole they will support it. If it isn't, they won't. I don't think you should be expecting parents to support future MtB events for the general good of chess.

    If there is a big sponsorship deal, and it results in significant benefits for the juniors, then in all likelihood they will support it. What you shouldn't expect is junior support for a package deal which delivers big benefits for the open (in terms of prizemoney, appearance money etc) and limited benefit for the junior event.

  9. #69
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    13,073
    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    If there is a big sponsorship deal, and it results in significant benefits for the juniors, then in all likelihood they will support it. What you shouldn't expect is junior support for a package deal which delivers big benefits for the open (in terms of prizemoney, appearance money etc) and limited benefit for the junior event.
    agreed.

  10. #70
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canberra, ACT
    Posts
    1,127
    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    how about we just cancel it now then and just give up? We have the opportunity for a large sponsorship deal, something that we have not had before. The chance to get a foothold with a large international player, Grollo Industries and just because some parents noses are out of joint cause they have to travel a bit and it may not be ideal for them, the junior associations are going to vote against the deal.

    Well actually how is that the junior associations are going to vote against the deal? yes act has a junior association and because you dont seem to be in favour of it, you are going to vote against it, but i am only aware of nsw being another state that has a formal state junior association.

    I am well aware that things are perfect with the current arrangement and I certainly would like to have seen a few things changed or restructured and they will be if we go back in to mt buller in two years time. But that is the point, some parts of the deal can be re worked if mercure/accor are told about it, but that isnt exactly in the nature of some of the parents is it, as recent events have shown

    And if you think I am rather pissed off, damn right I am. I will probably tell my opinion as well to some parents during the junior if I hear some bitching going on, more than usual will be my limit.

    With more preparation time, we can make some changes which with more time this time, could have happened and we could have arranged more activities.

    Maybe also a slightly different organising team will also be able to organise more play activities for all concerned

    I just dont think most ppl have seen what is truly possible out of this deal. Remember we are talking about Grollo Industries, so maybe if this goes well, they might want to help with other tournaments in chess and flight deals. All this is possible if junior associations vote for the deal. If not then everyone is no further advanced and our sport remains in the 19th century.
    Actually it wasn't my understanding that we have a vote - that being part of our problem from go to whoa. We can certainly chat to our delegates from the ACT but we don't really get a say in whatever is voted for. We can just express the view that is not our personal position, rather the position expressed to us by the players & parents we represent and try not to alienate.

    And if everyone is getting a bit hot under the collar I'm sorry about that. Perhaps if we posted some of the emails sent privately to some of us - in response to reasonable requests for help, information, clarification or assistance, our presumed "belligerence" might be given some context. Sometimes we even asked questions that are asked of us - by our players and (sometimes) by representatives from other state groups. I got the impression my question on who to make cheques out to was viewed as daft or trivial, but it seems to have troubled a few people. Coming from me, it looks more like Libby being a nit-picker again.

    It seems to me that the Juniors are VERY supportive of Mt Buller in 2004. It may not be the 160+ people hoped for but it is not far off. Vent in the direction of the adult player population if you must. Is everybody still angry because a parent organised a group meal booking at the Arlberg during the Schools? Because this is just crap OK. This was not as a result of anyone holding a grudge or trying to make any kind of silly point. It was just a booking made in a different place like I might make one at the local Chinese down the road and ask others if they want to come to.

    Most of the people there for the Schools were not even AWARE of the crap on this BB. They do not read the announcements thread. If you want them to eat somewhere in particular or whatever, then advertise the fact to them and most will probably oblige if it falls within their tastes and budget. But don't assume that because I annoy you, or any other parent annoys you, that we are broadcasting a negative perspective to the wider audience. Many people will have a bitch all of their own accord if they find a fly in the soup etc - will it do much good to fly off at any or all of them and see them all as part of a big "anti-Buller" conspiracy?

    Good luck with selling this multi-year deal to the Council. That's not actually sarcastic, although I assume it will be read that way. But that's what you need to do - sell the deal. Like bed nights at the Mercure - people will take the deal if it meets their needs but we are not all individually placed to make personal sacrifices (time or financial) to make any of this work just because you or I or anyone might want it to. It has to be good enough to stand on it's own. It needs the people able to take it on and run it, and it needs the broad support of your major player associations (Junior & Senior) and their membership.

  11. #71
    CC FIDE Master bobby1972's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    574
    why would anyone want to repeat this LEMON

  12. #72
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    16,545
    Unlike last time when the decision was rushed, any decision regarding a future deal (if one is put forward) will not be made at the National Conference but will be decided after the Junior is finished, so that the input from the respective junior bodies is available.

    I would suspect any such motion would likely be treated as a special motion under clause 6a of the constitution allowing all states to exercise their full voting rights.

  13. #73
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    13,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    Unlike last time when the decision was rushed, any decision regarding a future deal (if one is put forward) will not be made at the National Conference but will be decided after the Junior is finished, so that the input from the respective junior bodies is available.

    I would suspect any such motion would likely be treated as a special motion under clause 6a of the constitution allowing all states to exercise their full voting rights.
    this is how i understood this issue of future deals was going to be handled as well. After all the tournaments are over.

  14. #74
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    13,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Libby
    Good luck with selling this multi-year deal to the Council. That's not actually sarcastic, although I assume it will be read that way. But that's what you need to do - sell the deal. Like bed nights at the Mercure - people will take the deal if it meets their needs but we are not all individually placed to make personal sacrifices (time or financial) to make any of this work just because you or I or anyone might want it to. It has to be good enough to stand on it's own. It needs the people able to take it on and run it, and it needs the broad support of your major player associations (Junior & Senior) and their membership.
    yes I know it will have to be sold I am fully aware that for the mt buller ie open/junior that some reworking of the sleeping arrangements at the mercure will have to change. I would like to get some idea of Peter and Romans thoughts on this matter, but at least one of the current organising team is willing to negotiate new terms regarding certain matters

    I will reply tonight to the rest of your post Libby as I am short of time

  15. #75
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canberra, ACT
    Posts
    1,127
    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    yes I know it will have to be sold I am fully aware that for the mt buller ie open/junior that some reworking of the sleeping arrangements at the mercure will have to change. I would like to get some idea of Peter and Romans thoughts on this matter, but at least one of the current organising team is willing to negotiate new terms regarding certain matters

    I will reply tonight to the rest of your post Libby as I am short of time
    To be honest Garvin, I don't think any kind of major restructure of the Mercure accommodation arrangements will fill loads more beds there. It's certainly worth examining, and you can certainly do things to make the deal more attractive than it is for long stays for parents & children HOWEVER it will always be competing with much, much cheaper options and there will always be a significant number of people for whom that is the determining factor. Can you find me the $900 difference in value for what it would cost me to stay there under the current deal? I mean, you are not talking about $50 or even $100 difference. $900 is a big chunk of the holiday budget in our house.

    Is it at all possible for future negotiations to be around a "Mt Buller" deal rather than a Mercure/Mt Buller deal? I find it very odd that I am still speaking to accommodation providers, entertainment providers etc IN MT BULLER who know NOTHING about us coming? Our local version of Mt Buller (Thredbo) has a Jazz Festival coming up in January and all the summer providers open, offer deals etc - not just the main 4 star hotel. I know this complicates things in the sponsorship sense but wouldn't it make more sense to do things - even slightly - that way when you go to a place like this? And we were told at the ACF meeting that it didn't matter if we all didn't stay at the Mercure as they wanted to fill beds in Mt Buller itself - why did that change?

    Anyway - don't worry about responding to all of this right now. I imagine you guys are all flat out with Christmas and then everything kicking-off so soon afterwards. Good luck with the Open & Minor.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •