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  1. #1
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    1979 World Telex Matches

    In 1979 (?) Australia played in the World Telex Teams championship. Only a small number of countries played.

    We won against Guyana(?) and lost a close match to the Soviet Union. However, apparently they were disqualified for cheating.

    Does anyone have any information on this?

    Did Australia win?
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill
    In 1979 (?) Australia played in the World Telex Teams championship. Only a small number of countries played.

    We won against Guyana(?) and lost a close match to the Soviet Union. However, apparently they were disqualified for cheating.

    Does anyone have any information on this?

    Did Australia win?


    "In the latter part of our second telex match with Russia I as captain suspected Russia was playing at a much slower time control and after proving this to be the case I advised Peter Wallman, ACF President that we must claim the match 8-0 in our favour. This was agreed and I advised Campomanes who after investigation awarded the match to Australia. The massive World Tele-Trophy was flown from Moscow to Sydney and handed over by the Russian Ambassador to Australia to Senator Evans The Australian Foreign Minister in a Ceremony in Sydney attended by the members of the World Champion Team – Australia."
    http://closetgrandmaster.blogspot.co...ussia-8-0.html
    Last edited by frazer H (Axiom); 04-03-2011 at 05:39 PM.

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    I vaguely remember this. I wonder what happened to the trophy after that?

    DJ
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

  4. #4
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    I seem to recall that we were paired against the might of communist East Germany in the semi finals. They could easily field an all Grandmaster team, most likely consisting of huge, hairy, steroid popping women. How could a minnow like mere 'us', prevail?

    Easy! We simply arranged for the Berlin Wall to come down before the match could be played, and for East Germany to be abolished.

    People always go on about The Zohan, but really... you don't mess with the Aussie Telex Chess Team!

    I also vaguely recall Jamieson playing former World Champion Mikhail Tal in a Satellite chess game and drawing easily, whereupon he pointed the bony finger at a couple of Tal's moves. Tal was just lucky he played okay, or he would no doubt have got a lecture about a 'dead ned' or something.

  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    https://www.nswca.org.au/index.php
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    From this day (13-11-20) onwards, I will only be posting, shouting and reading none other than chess related posts.

  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    I thought at first that was the match in which Guy was drawn against this little ankle-biter called Kasparov, but a little digging showed that to be the 1977 match:
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1069675

    Despite the embarrassing result, few other Aussies (if any) can claim to have played Gazza in a tournament

  7. #7
    CC International Master Bereaved's Avatar
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    at least one has played Kasparov...

    [Event "EUR-ASIA m 30'"]
    [Site "Batumi"]
    [Date "2001.09.17"]
    [Round "2"]
    [White "Kasparov, Garry"]
    [Black "Rogers, Ian"]
    [Result "1-0"]
    [ECO "B01"]
    [WhiteElo "2838"]
    [BlackElo "2538"]
    [PlyCount "95"]
    [EventDate "2001.09.17"]
    [EventType "team (rapid)"]
    [EventRounds "12"]
    [EventCountry "GEO"]
    [Source "ChessBase"]
    [SourceDate "2002.02.05"]

    PGN Viewer
     



    [Event "Wch U16"]
    [Site "Wattignies"]
    [Date "1976.07.??"]
    [Round "8"]
    [White "Kasparov, Garry"]
    [Black "Rogers, Ian"]
    [Result "1-0"]
    [ECO "B33"]
    [BlackElo "1865"]
    [PlyCount "67"]
    [EventDate "1976.07.??"]
    [EventType "swiss"]
    [EventRounds "9"]
    [EventCountry "FRA"]
    [Source "ChessBase"]
    [SourceDate "1998.11.10"]

    PGN Viewer
     


    Take care and God Bless, Macavity
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  8. #8
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    Smile 77 & 90 Telechess olympiads

    Ok, I have more information...

    Australia actually played in 2 World Telechess Championships, and had to play the USSR both times.

    In 1977 we beat Guyana in the first round and then lost 2.5-5.5 to the USSR in the second. That's when Tal played Jamieson on board one. The games were so slow many were adjudicated draws around move 25 or so. Chekhov-Prods was a played out draw. Travers lost. Guy West lost on the junior board to Kasparov who then as the story goes, sat on Gulko's knee for the remainder of his game against Ian Rogers.

    Then in 1990 we beat Singapore, Ireland and had to play the USSR in the semi-finals. (This time Khalifman was board 1.) We were losing about 2-6 but by the end of the match we realised they had made so many breaches of the rules - including taking an hour break for dinner when it was after midnight in Sydney! - that we appealed and were awarded the match 8-0. By then East Germany (who had already won the final against the USSR) were forced to replay it. However in the meantime, as Guy says, they ceased to exist, so we won the cup, handed to us by the USSR ambassador at a ceremony in Sydney in 1991.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill
    Ok, I have more information...

    Australia actually played in 2 World Telechess Championships, and had to play the USSR both times.

    In 1977 we beat Guyana in the first round and then lost 2.5-5.5 to the USSR in the second. That's when Tal played Jamieson on board one. The games were so slow many were adjudicated draws around move 25 or so. Chekhov-Prods was a played out draw. Travers lost. Guy West lost on the junior board to Kasparov who then as the story goes, sat on Gulko's knee for the remainder of his game against Ian Rogers.

    Then in 1990 we beat Singapore, Ireland and had to play the USSR in the semi-finals. (This time Khalifman was board 1.) We were losing about 2-6 but by the end of the match we realised they had made so many breaches of the rules - including taking an hour break for dinner when it was after midnight in Sydney! - that we appealed and were awarded the match 8-0. By then East Germany (who had already won the final against the USSR) were forced to replay it. However in the meantime, as Guy says, they ceased to exist, so we won the cup, handed to us by the USSR ambassador at a ceremony in Sydney in 1991.
    Every dog has his day and once in a while even pigs can fly . Facinating story! Australia's appeal reminds me of a story how a 1500-rated lunatic was complaning to the arbiter that I was speaking Russian to someone during a tournament game outside the playing hall... and getting some chess advice. It should be noted that the person I was talking to was rated about 1400 ... luckily i was not forfeited. Furthermore, when the arbiter pointed it out to me that I should not be speaking Russian during the game, it was fun to suggest that if he wants to enforce the no talking rule - he'd better make it applicable to all of the languages .

    Russia's telechess team has never been a national team consisting of the top GMs - every time they would look around for some GMs (whoever was available in the Moscow Central chess club at the time of the matches) and ask them to play. Still, they had no trouble winning the Telechess competitions. 5.5-2.5 was a ''friendly score''...since 5.5 points is enough for victory!

    P.S. I still remember a fun conversation that I had with Naum Kagan few days after my arrival to Melbourne. I asked him how different was the Australian chess scene from the Russian one to which he replied ''here - we got Darryl Johansen and Ian Rogers only and in Russia - every village has its own Johansen. (the conversation has taken place in the year 1991)
    Last edited by MichaelBaron; 08-03-2011 at 10:20 PM.
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  10. #10
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    Smile

    in Russia - every village has its own Johansen
    Could be a good theme for a sci-fi horror, clones in every village.

    Does every village also have a David Hacche?

    or more to the point

    Does every village have a Michael Baron or Naum Kagan?
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill
    Could be a good theme for a sci-fi horror, clones in every village.

    Does every village also have a David Hacche?

    or more to the point

    Does every village have a Michael Baron or Naum Kagan?
    Every village has 15 barons and Kagans and Goldenbergs and Smirnovs . In russia, nobody at the chess scene had a clue who we are
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  12. #12
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    The first tele-chess Olympiad (FIDE - Euwe and ICCF) was held 1977/8. Rd 1 Australia 6.5-Guyana 1.5 (Jamieson, Shaw, Woodhams, Rogers, Sztern, Prods, Kellner, Fardell)

    Rd 2 on 24 Sep 1977 Soviet Union 5.5 Australia 2.5 sponsored by telecom – our players in Telecom Sydney and from Melbourne – SU in Moscow. Started about 6pm Aus time – most spectators left by 1am – state of the art transmission over a third of a century ago was very slow. We agreed to halt the match about 5am Australian time when it was clear Russia had won the match after about 11 hours with nearly all games still in progress. I offered the Russian Captain 3-5 with draws on the top six boards (Kasparov beat West after about 5 hours). We accepted the counter offer of 2.5 – 5.5 as ex world corro champion Zagorovsky was winning against Travers and on the state of play at 5am it was a good result for Australia – draws on the top five boards. Tal played well in the complications against Jamieson and stood slightly better in the final position. 2 Dec 1978 Soviet Union beat East Germany 5-3 in the final.

    Australia played in the third Tele-chess Olympiad 1989/1990 beating Singapore 6.5-1.5 and Ireland 7.5 – 0.5 to reach the semi-final.
    East Germany reached the final on 23 Jun 1990 defeating Austria 6-2. Australia played the Soviet Union on 22 Sep 1990 in the other semi-final. Transmission was still slow but much better than 34 years ago in 1977. Australia was heading for a decisive defeat judging by our board positions. Late into the match with players short of time and our clock times were being sent to Moscow regularly as the rules required. It occurred to me that very slow responses from Moscow to our moves and Soviet Union clock times not being sent (or sometimes players extremely short of time) that maybe they were using slower time controls than Australia. If true I needed evidence. I sent simple messages to Moscow eg board Y move 36 is Rd6 our time used is 1hr 45 mins. Please advise your move 36 and your clock time used. Thank you. It soon became clear from several boards that they ran out of clock time. I then sent another message on one of the boards - please confirm rate of play – yes they were playing at a slower rate. The Soviet Union claimed a 6-2 victory based on the state of play at adjudication time. I had already consulted a number of players and held a lengthy conversation with ACF President Peter Wallman at the venue. The reply to Moscow was that Australia claims an 8-0 victory as Russia were using a slower time control than the written rules of the competition. The matter was unresolved. FIDE was advised and awaited written reports from Australia and Russia.

    23 September 1990. East Germany had arranged to play Russia in the final the day after the semi-final assuming Russia would win against Australia. We were of course unable to stop the match. East Germany won on board count-back after a 4-4 tie. (Knaak beat Vyzhmanavin on board 2 and Russia lost on board 8).

    3 October 1990 The Berlin Wall was gone and reunification complete – Federal Republic of Germany replacing East and West Germany.

    16 November 1990 Note well --------- East Germany yes East Germany lost 0.5 – 3.5 to Russia in round 1 of the Novi Sad Yugoslavia(now Serbia) Chess Olympiad

    FIDE President Florencio Campomanes who I had known well since the 1976 Olympiad in Haifa, Israel was at the Novi Sad Olympiad in 1990 and had received Wallman’s written report containing a number of irregularities from the Soviet Union team. I was Captain of the Australian Olympiad Team and simply showed Campo – here are the written rules with the rate of play. The Soviet Union agreed they had used the incorrect and slower time control. Australia claimed an 8-0 win . After consulting his FIDE Presidential board and the Soviet Delegation FIDE agreed we won the match 8-0 and the match East Germany – Russia had no validity. FIDE also confirmed East Germany’s final event was the Novi Sad Olympiad.

    It appears to me the players and organisers of the Soviet Union Team simply did not have a copy of the rules – amazing as they played many other matches – what time controls did they have in other matches??

    December 1990. Peter Wallman and I agreed that our final task was to organise the giant 20kg trophy to be delivered from Moscow to Australia.

    1991. The Australian Ambassador to Australia handed the trophy to Australian Foreign Minister Senator Gareth Evans at a ceremony in Sydney at Telecom. Melbourne and Sydney players and Captain attended and pictures taken etc. Australia have been World Champions for over 20 years. Where is the trophy you ask? Telecom had generously provided sponsorship for all tele-chess matches which were in fact very expensive. Larry Ermacora, a senior employee of Telecom had arranged the sponsorship over many years. The ACF, Larry etc. agreed with a director of Telecom at the presentation ceremony that Telecom would arrange to send the trophy round to its head offices in all states of Australia in their part of providing the services which made Australia Champions of the World. Ermacora later tried to locate the 20kg trophy at Telecom but despite numerous attempts and phone calls etc. 19 years ago it has not been found. The ACF would only have the photos left deep in their filing system next to their list of still unpublished (on their website) ACF Life Masters. I am still hopeful that one day the trophy may resurface from a dis-used vault formerly owned by Telecom.

    For further reading see my columns in the Sydney Morning Herald (1973-2011) – recent years at…
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  13. #13
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    Smile

    I have heard it was only
    the boards where the USSR were White that the organiser in Moscow gave
    the players their own choice of time limit(!).

    In any case the Telechess Olympiads were run under the auspices of the
    ICCF, not FIDE, so Campomanes had nothing to do with the forfeit
    decision.

    We were lucky enough to have an ICCF official in Tilburg.
    The official was shocked at
    the many breaches of rules which emerged bit by bit that day
    and he advised a protest. The ACF followed up with a
    formal letter. By the time the Novi Sad Olympiad came around the ICCF
    had decided to give the semi-final to us the
    decision was announced at the ICCF meeting during the last week of the
    Olympiad.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill
    I have heard it was only
    the boards where the USSR were White that the organiser in Moscow gave
    the players their own choice of time limit(!)
    The suggestion that the eight members of the USSR team plus USSR officials all sitting in the same room for about 8 hours playing one international match against Australia were all playing to a variety of different time controls is beyond belief!
    Indeed if any USSR player was playing with the correct time control we would not have claimed an 8-0 victory. Furthermore USSR agreed that the whole team had played with the wrong time controls as they did not have a written copy of the rules!

    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill
    In any case the Telechess Olympiads were run under the auspices of the
    ICCF, not FIDE, so Campomanes had nothing to do with the forfeit
    decision.
    This is simply not correct. In 1976 a meeting took place between the FIDE President Prof Euwe and the FIDE affiliated international organisation ICCF President Hans-Werner von Massow. It was agreed to start a telechess Olympiad. Each country had top 5 boards as well as one Correspondence board, a women’s board and a junior board.
    The regulations were that the FIDE Laws of Chess are valid in all matches and the adjudication of the games under ICCF Rules were applicable. There were no games to adjudicate as board positions were not relevant. Campomanes as FIDE President had everything to do with the decision. A number of Australian players also discussed the event with Campo at the being of the Novi Sad Olympiad.
    There was no controversy – USSR agreed they lost 0-8.

    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill
    We were lucky enough to have an ICCF official in Tilburg.
    The official was shocked at
    the many breaches of rules which emerged bit by bit that day
    and he advised a protest.
    This is also not correct. Australia never lodged a protest about the match result as no match result had been declared. At the end of transmission Russia claimed a 6-2 victory and Australia claimed an 8-0 victory after I had proved USSR had played the whole match using the incorrect time control and after confirmation by the players in the USSR team who agreed they used a slower time control.

    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill
    The ACF followed up with a
    formal letter. By the time the Novi Sad Olympiad came around the ICCF
    had decided to give the semi-final to us the
    decision was announced at the ICCF meeting during the last week of the
    Olympiad.
    FIDE received communication from USSR and Australia. I spoke to Campo at the beginning of the Novi Sad Olympiad. Campomanes consulted the USSR Federation, FIDE Presidential board and ICCF. There was no dispute.
    Btw – heading “1979 world telex” should be 1990! (see also my earlier post)

  15. #15
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    I am surprised to see Peter Parr' post which would indicate that he was not privy to all the relevant information about the match infringements and the protest after the 1990 USSR-Australia match. However I suspect that it is just that details may have faded from his memory over time.
    Australia's protest was not based solely on the time limit used, since only half of the Soviet team played at the wrong time limit.
    Khalifman, the USSR board 1, confirmed that the Soviet captain only gave the players with White their choice of time limit. Most chose 40/150. (Like Peter, he thought the whole idea was pretty odd at the time too!) The players with Black such as Khalifman played at the correct time limit as the ICCF confirmed during their investigations.
    However we also protested against the Soviet team taking a one hour meal break in the middle of the match (when it was after midnight in Australia) and also on them playing a team different to the submitted team list. These facts were again confirmed by Khalifman.
    In any case Peter could not have 'proved' that the whole Soviet team played at the wrong time limit, because they didn't. (Khalifman said that the Soviet match organiser believed that Australia had the right to choose the time limit for the games when we were White - and of course we chose the legal one.)
    The ICCF, to which FIDE had delegated responsibility for the Telechess Olympiads, made the decision to award the forfeit and that decision was made shortly before the Novi Sad Olympiad started.
    As Bill stated, Campomanes had nothing (officially) to do with it. However, had the Soviets wished to dispute the decision - as we feared at first - I suspect the USSR would have gone through FIDE and then Peter's lobbying of Campomanes might have been useful.

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