Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 77
  1. #1
    CC Candidate Master SHump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hobsons Bay Chess club, Vic, Australia
    Posts
    442

    Players giving false names, misrepresenting their playing strength

    I ran a Rookies Shield (u1700 rated) event recently (in Hamiton NZ) and I now have prime facie evidence that 2 of the entrants had provided false names and both were FIDE rated over 2200. The evidence include their photos as winners and also during the event, and one email address that seems to include parts of their real name, and an email from someone who recognised them. One of them is a FIDE titled player at the highest level.

    The tournament 'damage' was not too great (I am sure the people that played them learnt a thing or two) and the financial impact was slight (entry fees for them totalled $25, the prize money they won combined to $55).

    As they registered on the morning of the event (as allowed for) then they could have called themselves whatever and I would have had no way of verifying their playing strength (no internet on site).

    However, this is (chess) fraud, and so I wanted to bring this to the attention of the chess community.

    In future I will ask for some id before registering a player I do not know, and especially for those turning up on the day.

    I want to ask the chess community what I should do about this, or if others have had a similar experience:
    • try to gather more evidence?
    • name and shame (leaves me open to some libel action however)?
    • notify FIDE? (if so, how/who?)
    • is there an avenue to report names/photos of suspected chess sharks?? (they may hit Aus next!)
    • report them to immigration (they were overseas players)?

    It does seem rather bizarre that titled players (on holidays) would go to these levels (just to get a free lunch!). But there you have it. Is this just a scratch on the surface of other frauds being done?!?

    I looked through all the posts on this thread and no-one seems to have discussed this before...
    Scott.. enjoying Melbourne and Wyndham Chess Club and Hobsons Bay Chess club!

  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster Garrett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    the City
    Posts
    3,163
    Interesting issue.

    I guess you're prone to get sharks and sand-baggers when you run under 'X' tournaments.

    Just run open tournaments and make the sooks man-up.

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Subtropical Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    11,232
    If the evidence is satisfactory to the ACF, I strongly urge the ACF to write to the governing body of the country of ethnicity of these people. Who knows, you might get a Howie/ Garvo/ Gletsos who will ban their miserable asses - sort the f***ers right out. Alternately, you might get some weak-ass drips and nothing will happen.

    Either way, this should be acted upon at governing body level.

    *EDIT: Courtesy of other posters, I see that I missed the blatant reference to NZ. All else stands, rated or otherwise, under the auspices of the NZCF or otherwise.
    Last edited by Basil; 02-03-2011 at 02:31 PM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  4. #4
    CC International Master Watto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    2,271
    Quote Originally Posted by SHump
    I ran a Rookies Shield (u1700 rated) event recently (in Hamiton NZ) and I now have prime facie evidence that 2 of the entrants had provided false names and both were FIDE rated over 2200. The evidence include their photos as winners and also during the event, and one email address that seems to include parts of their real name, and an email from someone who recognised them. One of them is a FIDE titled player at the highest level.
    That's quite something. It possibly seemed like innocent fun to them but notifying FIDE would seem to be a fair response. It is cheating and they should be sanctioned for it. By highest level, do you mean one of them was a GM?

    Reminds me - Guy's always had a yearning to play in disguise at an Australian tournament just for fun. But he'd pick an open tournament and he says he'd work out something about the prizemoney if it came to it by telling the organisers it's not part of his religion (taking money for playing chess is seen as no better than gambling etc.) If he was pushed about which religion, he'd say he was a follower of JoJo Pieism.
    So watch out organisers if you see a tall-ish bloke with a funny beard and long, bony fingers ... !

  5. #5
    CC Candidate Master heligan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    328

    Ringers

    The event in question was not held under the aegis of the NZCF; it wasn't rated by us either. So, strictly speaking, it's quite independent of us and there isn't anything we can do. However, I would like to point out that two rather strong players (father and wgm daughter) are known to have been touring Australia recently. Personally I have no proof that the players in the Hamilton event are the same couple - but I would advise any tournament organiser in New Zealand to check passports for any foreign players. If they won't provide passports, then you shouldn't allow them to play in rating-limited sections. Unless it's under 2400....

  6. #6
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    The multiverse
    Posts
    21,567
    Quote Originally Posted by Watto
    So watch out organisers if you see a tall-ish bloke with a funny beard and long, bony fingers ... !
    Would a true Pieist have bony fingers?

    However to get back on track... I think the behaviour in post #1 is pretty reprehensible. It might have seemed like good fun when they hatched the plan but when money changes hand it isn't just a lark, it's fraud and they should be reported.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,444
    CHEATS
    Disgusting slimy cheats. They should be reported to FIDE, there home federation and banned from playing in New Zealand again for a long time. Whether NZCF wants to implement a ban offically or not chess clubs could be warned not accept their entries.
    Scott

  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    13,073
    While others are covering about penalties, the main issue here seems to be positively identifying the two people involved.

    This might seem some trouble to do, but it might be worth contacting the venue if they have security cameras so you can get photos of the two.

    Then post their photos on here to see if anyone can identify them. Could also help for your own club website for a do not accept these people.

  9. #9
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,444
    Quote Originally Posted by Garvinator
    While others are covering about penalties, the main issue here seems to be positively identifying the two people involved.

    This might seem some trouble to do, but it might be worth contacting the venue if they have security cameras so you can get photos of the two.

    Then post their photos on here to see if anyone can identify them. Could also help for your own club website for a do not accept these people.
    Garvin, Scott says in the opening post he has photos of them both.
    Scott

  10. #10
    CC International Master William AS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,820
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett
    Interesting issue.

    I guess you're prone to get sharks and sand-baggers when you run under 'X' tournaments.

    Just run open tournaments and make the sooks man-up.
    I have found a very small number of 'sandbaggers' in South Australian events in over 35 years of running tournaments, mostly players failing to mention they have changed names, does not work as I never forget a face! Best defence is a policy of giving unrated players a provisional rating after 'x' number of rounds ['x' being the number of rounds in the tournament minus 30%].

  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster Spiny Norman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    4,437
    I would first make an effort to contact the players. Present the evidence. Give them 7 days to return the prize money, so that it can be awarded to more deserving recipients.

    If they didn't return the money I would make a report to the police and allege fraud. That should give them something to think about.

    Regardless of whether or not they returned the prize money I would also formally write to the relevant governing bodies, outline to them my suspicions, and provide them with copies of any relevant evidence/documentation.
    “As you perhaps know, I haven't always been a Christian. I didn't go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don't recommend Christianity.” -- C.S.Lewis

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    12,345
    Quote Originally Posted by SHump
    I ran a Rookies Shield (u1700 rated) event recently (in Hamiton NZ) and I now have prime facie evidence that 2 of the entrants had provided false names and both were FIDE rated over 2200. The evidence include their photos as winners and also during the event, and one email address that seems to include parts of their real name, and an email from someone who recognised them. One of them is a FIDE titled player at the highest level.

    The tournament 'damage' was not too great (I am sure the people that played them learnt a thing or two) and the financial impact was slight (entry fees for them totalled $25, the prize money they won combined to $55).

    As they registered on the morning of the event (as allowed for) then they could have called themselves whatever and I would have had no way of verifying their playing strength (no internet on site).

    However, this is (chess) fraud, and so I wanted to bring this to the attention of the chess community.

    In future I will ask for some id before registering a player I do not know, and especially for those turning up on the day.

    I want to ask the chess community what I should do about this, or if others have had a similar experience:
    • try to gather more evidence?
    • name and shame (leaves me open to some libel action however)?
    • notify FIDE? (if so, how/who?)
    • is there an avenue to report names/photos of suspected chess sharks?? (they may hit Aus next!)
    • report them to immigration (they were overseas players)?

    It does seem rather bizarre that titled players (on holidays) would go to these levels (just to get a free lunch!). But there you have it. Is this just a scratch on the surface of other frauds being done?!?

    I looked through all the posts on this thread and no-one seems to have discussed this before...
    Were they father and daughter? we had an interesting pair at MCC some weeks ago..they called themselves Mullers
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    12,345
    She is a pretty girl, would be good to have her name published
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

  14. #14
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    37,488
    OK, I've just found my way through to the results of the event and the photos of the winners. They're the same two players who showed up here in Hobart club two weeks in a row and said they were going on to NZ. We originally thought they were Russians, but the guy clearly spoke German, as when I mentioned that I work on snails it took some time to explain what they were to him, and then when he realised he said the German word for snail. I thought the names they gave were something like Michael and Lara, but my hearing's not too good. Seemed like friendly people; the guy even brought along a bottle of wine and shared it with me.

    The guy was very strong; although I was lucky enough to win 3 casual games out of 6 against him I thought he was probably 2100+. The girl (who I scored 2/3 against) seemed to me to be about 1700 strength most of the time, except for when I made a silly mistake in a double rook ending while three (!) pawns up and she showed exceptional endgame skill over 20+ moves to win the position. The guy then said her endgame was better than his.

    We talked about tournaments with them and their response suggested they weren't all that serious about tournament play.

    I'd be interested to hear from SHump who they really are (if they are titled players) and how he found out.

    As for discipline, if you suspect a player of entering a tournament under false pretences, I suggest reporting them to their national federation. Anyone from Australia who did that kind of thing overseas - in any kind of tournament at all - would be in breach of the ACF Code of Ethics and the ACF could ban them. (I think you can thank the Escribano controversy for that one. )
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 02-03-2011 at 09:14 PM.

  15. #15
    CC Grandmaster Garrett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    the City
    Posts
    3,163
    oh oh oh

    can I guess who the girl is ?

    L@r@ Stock

    only a guess

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Melbourne Chess Club: A New Era!
    By ER in forum Australian Chess
    Replies: 243
    Last Post: 13-07-2013, 01:48 PM
  2. How competitive do you want it to be?
    By ursogr8 in forum Australian Chess
    Replies: 738
    Last Post: 17-06-2011, 10:46 PM
  3. Revamping the Australian Open
    By Kerry Stead in forum Completed Tournaments
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 29-01-2007, 03:07 PM
  4. Elwood Bendigo Bank Championship 2006
    By Igor_Goldenberg in forum Completed Tournaments
    Replies: 330
    Last Post: 14-12-2006, 03:50 PM
  5. Allocation of Divisional Prizes
    By 1min_grandmaster in forum General Chess Chat
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 05-08-2004, 10:28 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •