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  1. #1
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    Rants on "AUSTRALASIAN CHESS CRISIS"

    check it out: blogger Doubleroo's rant and guest celebrity ranter: explosive!

    http://doubleroo.blogspot.com/2011/0...st-ranter.html

    I predict this will get up people's nose and other parts of the anatomy in a mighty big way! or not! what do I know ......

    But bravo to the ranters! for their courage! (not necessarily meaning I totally agree or endorse the position) ......

    But seriously folks, may be something within the "rants" if we are able to exercise restraint (rein in the emotions) and engage only the "rational" Descartes "ghost in the machine".

    And please don't shoot the messenger, namely, moi!

    But I am happy to engage in constructive debate and discussion ..... or not!
    siow, weng nian

    Do not think that you know.
    Be aware of all that is and dwell in the infinite.
    The sky is blue. Is that really so?
    Or does it only look blue because it stretches off into infinity?


    http://seekingcaissa.blogspot.com.au/
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  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Arianne has some good points. From the start of her rant looks like ACF web site needs some updating. I think top Aus woman player should not have to fork out $250 to play in Zonal.
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

    Psephological insight. "Controversial will only lose you votes. Courageous will lose you the election." Sir Humphrey Appleby on Yes Minister.

    Favorite movie line: Girl friend Cathy to Jack Ryan in "Sum of all Fears". "What kind of emergency does an historian have?".

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    I could not quite work out most of the points from Arianne's 'rant' but the one point I could pick up on that she is very mis-understanding of.

    Had Arianne applied for the selected spots in the Open Division, which is the first step on the road to the World Championship, she would have not been selected as one of Australia's two candidates as she would be a long way behind ZYZ, David Smerdon and George Xie.

    Arianne was accepted for the Women's Zonal spot and would have received the entitlements that come with that. It seems that Arianne was trying to change over to the Open Zonal, but was wanting to be treated differently because she was selected for the WOMENS zonal as a female.

    Had she just entered the Open Zonal as an ordinary participant, then she would have been charged the applicable entry for her rating, which is the $250 mentioned.

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvinator
    I could not quite work out most of the points from Arianne's 'rant' but the one point I could pick up on that she is very mis-understanding of.

    Had Arianne applied for the selected spots in the Open Division, which is the first step on the road to the World Championship, she would have not been selected as one of Australia's two candidates as she would be a long way behind ZYZ, David Smerdon and George Xie.

    Arianne was accepted for the Women's Zonal spot and would have received the entitlements that come with that. It seems that Arianne was trying to change over to the Open Zonal, but was wanting to be treated differently because she was selected for the WOMENS zonal as a female.

    Had she just entered the Open Zonal as an ordinary participant, then she would have been charged the applicable entry for her rating, which is the $250 mentioned.
    Agreed. Thanks for the explanation Garvinator.
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

    Psephological insight. "Controversial will only lose you votes. Courageous will lose you the election." Sir Humphrey Appleby on Yes Minister.

    Favorite movie line: Girl friend Cathy to Jack Ryan in "Sum of all Fears". "What kind of emergency does an historian have?".

  5. #5
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski
    Arianne has some good points. From the start of her rant looks like ACF web site needs some updating.
    From my reading the comments on the website being out of date (and complaints about the rating system) are Aleks's and not Arianne's.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    From my reading the comments on the website being out of date (and complaints about the rating system) are Aleks's and not Arianne's.
    Aren't Arianne's at the bottom of the page?

  7. #7
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvinator
    Aren't Arianne's at the bottom of the page?
    I believe everything between her name in bold and centred through to her name in normal weight and left justified almost at the end are Arianne's "rant". The complaints about the website being out of date are before that and I assume are the words of the blogger, Aleks Wohl. Aleks also has a sentence between Arianne signing off and the copy of the letter.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  8. #8
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    I have a number of comments about WIM Caoili's "RANT" about the Oceania Zonal. Arianne Caoili's statement about the ACF's supposed hostility to her request is, to the best of my knowledge, false.

    WIM Arianne Caoili applied for the Zonal, and was duly selected for a position as one of Australia's representatives in the Women's Oceania Zonal through a selection process that I conducted as ACF Selections Director. At no point did she explicitly apply for selection as a representative in the Open Zonal (and given that the selected applicants were GM David Smerdon and IM George Xie it is quite safe to assume she would not have been selected for one of the top two spots if she had.)

    After contacting me on 31 October saying she would most likely participate, the next I heard from Arianne was on 27 November asking if the same conditions would apply to her if she played in the Open section. This was an extremely late stage of the process to be effectively reinventing the Zonal qualification wheel by asking for conditions in the Open section, which she never explicitly applied to be selected for in the first place, and for which Australia's two places were filled - apparently just on account of being a strong female player.

    I responded to Arianne's 27 Nov email simply as follows:

    "Dear Arianne,

    I would not expect so, given that our two Open spots are taken, but feel free to check with Paul.

    Cheers, Kevin."

    This was not, as Arianne apparently construes it, a case of being "downright hostile to [her] request." It was simply an expression of doubt on my part that the organisers would make allowances for her irregular and tardy request to be granted conditions to which she would not be normally entitled.

    In any case whether she was given those conditions for the Open or not had nothing to do with the ACF (unless we were supposed to de-select GM Smerdon or IM Xie to make room for her) but rather were matters for the organisers and, arguably, FIDE.

    Indeed, when she writes "Although the New Zealanders had no objections the ACF were downright hostile to my request" I am wondering if she has it something like the wrong way around to what she wanted to say by mistake.

    In any case, the organisers decided they could not grant her such conditions, a completely understandable decision given the financial constraints that they were under, and one which I totally support. (Claims that Arianne's entry would have created no extra costs are incorrect, since by moving up to the Open Zonal she would have vacated her Women's Zonal position, entitling a reserve to take that place and hence meaning that instead of four freely accommodated players Australia would now have five.)

    It is also my view that Arianne's last-minute lobbying for a place in the Open caused substantial and unfair inconvenience to the organisers and I informed them that the views in her 22 Dec letter were neither endorsed by me nor by the ACF.

    Arianne next comments "I wrote an email addressed to both the organizers and the ACF to try to discuss my concerns but got not even so much as an acknowledgement of receipt." I received no such email and no such email has been tabled as correspondence by the ACF, nor was any such email discussed when I raised the matter at the January 8 ACF Council meeting. The next I heard from Arianne about the matter was in fact her letter to the organisers of 22 December. That's not to say no such email exists, but it would be interesting to know who it was sent to (assuming it was sent and not just written!) and whether there was any attempt to follow up the lack of reply.

    If anyone thinks that strong female players unable to qualify for conditions otherwise should be eligible for free conditions at Open Zonals to encourage women's chess to become stronger, that is fine. But the way to go about securing that is to start lobbying FIDE years in advance of when you are aiming for the change to take place, and to ask your national federation to assist you in that process (again, well in advance).

    The way to go about securing that is not to reinvent the wheel of how free accommodation in FIDE Zonals is awarded a couple of months out from the tournament, in the process inconveniencing both your own national officebearers and the hosts. Especially not when you follow that up by criticising people who did not create the current system when you should really be just apologising for wasting people's time by pursuing your campaign for reform in such a disorganised manner.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    PS I agree with Alex that the ACF website needs work. The current webmaster has been intending to hand it over for a fair time now but has been waiting until we can find a replacement. Ideally we need someone who is not hopelessly commercially conflicted and who can improve the website through active soliciting of material along the lines of what Ian Rout has done with the newsletter. One correction though: the reason the website gives Slavica Sarai in 2003 as the last Australian Womens Champion is not that it is out of date, but because that is actually true - the revised conditions for the title to be awarded have not been met since then.

    As for ratings, maybe he should keep an eye on the current upgrade.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 20-02-2011 at 11:29 AM.

  9. #9
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    I believe everything between her name in bold and centred through to her name in normal weight and left justified almost at the end are Arianne's "rant". The complaints about the website being out of date are before that and I assume are the words of the blogger, Aleks Wohl. Aleks also has a sentence between Arianne signing off and the copy of the letter.
    Reading it again, I am sure Barry is correct. Arianne did not mention the ACF web site's lack of currency: Alex (he prefers that spelling he told me) did!
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

    Psephological insight. "Controversial will only lose you votes. Courageous will lose you the election." Sir Humphrey Appleby on Yes Minister.

    Favorite movie line: Girl friend Cathy to Jack Ryan in "Sum of all Fears". "What kind of emergency does an historian have?".

  10. #10
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski
    Arianne has some good points. From the start of her rant looks like ACF web site needs some updating. I think top Aus woman player should not have to fork out $250 to play in Zonal.
    Garvin is 100% correct as my reply shows. She would not have had to fork out $250 to play in the Womens Zonal for which she applied and was selected. The problem is she wanted to play for free in the Open Zonal for which she didn't apply and hence wasn't (and wouldn't have been) selected.

    As it happens if she had applied for the Open Zonal in time she would have been first reserve and would have then played had anything prevented either Smerdon or Xie from taking their places. Note that Zhao was not an applicant for selection.

    Quote Originally Posted by siow, weng nian
    And please don't shoot the messenger, namely, moi!
    On the contrary, thanks very much for bringing it to our attention.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 19-02-2011 at 11:40 PM.

  11. #11
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski
    Reading it again, I am sure Barry is correct. Arianne did not mention the ACF web site's lack of currency: Alex (he prefers that spelling he told me) did!
    It certainly makes the possessive much easier to manage.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    the way punctuation works these days it's hard to tell anyway!
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  13. #13
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    Lets not scratch the surface - The real message from Arianne is - if ACF wants chess to develop it has to be a) professional about it (e.g. updated website) and 2) provide as much support (financial included) to our top players.

    In this particular instance she was not asking for much. I see no reason why NZ organisers need to support an AUS player but ACF surely should've done something to help her out.

    Lets be brutally honest...zonals (in their current shape and form) are open to a) few title contenders and b) lots and lots of chess tourists. For instance in the women's zonal - there was only 1 2100+ player. Why would Arianne come all the way from Europe to play some beginners - you do not spend so much money..then play 1000-1500 rated players (and some of the women's zonal participants were that weak). You can call the tournament ''Zonal'' or ''Continental Championship'' or ''World Cup Qualifier'' - it will not make them play any better!

    You can give the players WIM and WFM titles...still nothing will change. What Arianne needs is some support and appreciation! It may be a politically incorrect thing to do...but it makes more sense to support 1 2250 rated player to play in the open section and develop her skills than to waste resources on weaker players!

    One of the reasons that Bobby Cheng was able to achieve his world junior title (an unprecedented achievement for an Australian ) is great support from his family. If not for his family, he would not even go to the world junior cause its an expensive trip.

    To sum up, in my opinion Arianne made a correct decision to go to Gibraltar instead. The tournament is far better for her chess development and why should she even bother to play in zonal and represent Australia if Australia does nothing for her? The formula '' do not think what your country can do for you, think what you can do for your country'' is fake - it should work both ways! Untill then, we will be a country of chess tourists!
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  14. #14
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    Lets not scratch the surface - The real message from Arianne is - if ACF wants chess to develop it has to be a) professional about it (e.g. updated website) and 2) provide as much support (financial included) to our top players.

    In this particular instance she was not asking for much. I see no reason why NZ organisers need to support an AUS player but ACF surely should've done something to help her out.

    Lets be brutally honest...zonals (in their current shape and form) are open to a) few title contenders and b) lots and lots of chess tourists. For instance in the women's zonal - there was only 1 2100+ player. Why would Arianne come all the way from Europe to play some beginners - you do not spend so much money..then play 1000-1500 rated players (and some of the women's zonal participants were that weak). You can call the tournament ''Zonal'' or ''Continental Championship'' or ''World Cup Qualifier'' - it will not make them play any better!

    You can give the players WIM and WFM titles...still nothing will change. What Arianne needs is some support and appreciation! It may be a politically incorrect thing to do...but it makes more sense to support 1 2250 rated player to play in the open section and develop her skills than to waste resources on weaker players!

    One of the reasons that Bobby Cheng was able to achieve his world junior title (an unprecedented achievement for an Australian ) is great support from his family. If not for his family, he would not even go to the world junior cause its an expensive trip.

    To sum up, in my opinion Arianne made a correct decision to go to Gibraltar instead. The tournament is far better for her chess development and why should she even bother to play in zonal and represent Australia if Australia does nothing for her? The formula '' do not think what your country can do for you, think what you can do for your country'' is fake - it should work both ways! Untill then, we will be a country of chess tourists!
    What exactly do you propose ACF should have done differently? Written her a cheque when she asked in November?
    meep meep

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    What exactly do you propose ACF should have done differently? Written her a cheque when she asked in November?
    Actually, It would be a good idea!
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