World War 1 & 2

[Capablanca-Fan]

I note that it's now the 70th anniversary of the Jap surrender. Notice how many days it was since the 70th anniversary the Hiroshima bomb.

[Rincewind]

I note that it's now the 70th anniversary of the Jap surrender. Notice how many days it was since the 70th anniversary the Hiroshima bomb.

Notice too how it is even fewer days since the 70th anniversary of the start of the Soviet-Japanese war of 1945.

[Capablanca-Fan]

Notice too how it is even fewer days since the 70th anniversary of the start of the Soviet-Japanese war of 1945.

My point was that the Japs were not so ready to surrender even after the bombs. But I do notice that—Truman was very pleased to hear the news, contrary to the ‘atomic diplomacy’ thesis. The Soviets didn't seem willing to enter the war until the bomb. Still, Hirohito mentioned only the bomb in his surrender announcement.

[Rincewind]

The Soviets didn't seem willing to enter the war until the bomb.

Under the terms of the Yalta Conference the Soviets were bound to enter the Pacific theatre two to three months after the European theatre concluded. Soviet Victory Day was 9 May and so Stalin pushed that to the limit but it seems the timing of the invasion of Manchuria was chosen to comply with the term of the Yalta agreement (and so benefiting by obtaining the territories of Southern Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands, as agreed with FDR and Churchill at Yalta).

In short, I don't believe the A-bomb had all that much to do with the timing of the Soviet-Japanese War.

[antichrist]

Comments that "we can't win with Menzies" began to circulate in the conservative press especially after it was leaked that a circular he sent to Defence Department regarding wounded soldiers from both the First and Second World War receiving a pension increase. In it he stated that "....a dead soldier cost a letter home and a plaque, Legacy provided for his family. A wounded soldier haunted governments for decades."

from Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Menzies

[MichaelBaron]

That depends on in what context. Certainly not from the perspective of the enemy, who cannot be expected to know they are conscripted. They are a soldier, but they may be an unwilling one.



No, the government would be. The WWI conscription votes were non-binding on the government and the government was under no compulsion to hold them anyway.

Even bigger issue (just like with our more recent involvements in Vietnam etc.) Why we had to participate in the WW2 to the extent that we did?

[Zwischenzug]

Even bigger issue (just like with our more recent involvements in Vietnam etc.) Why we had to participate in the WW2 to the extent that we did?

Two reasons, Australia is part of the British Commonwealth and Australia (Darwin) was attacked by Japan.

[antichrist]

Even bigger issue (just like with our more recent involvements in Vietnam etc.) Why we had to participate in the WW2 to the extent that we did?

Just look at our flag, Britain was at war then so were we. Aussie fighter pilots helped defend Britain in the Battle for Britain nothing really wrong with that except Churchill thought Australia expendable that could be rescued after European war resolved. There was residual resentment to Menzies because he evaded service in WW1 - that was the mentality except for the commos, republicans and libertarians.

[MichaelBaron]

That was indeed the problem - we had to struggle on behalf of the Commonwealth!~

[jammo]

That was indeed the problem - we had to struggle on behalf of the Commonwealth!~

Wrong again. In 1939 there was no Commonwealth - it was the British Empire!

[Kevin Bonham]

Wrong again. In 1939 there was no Commonwealth - it was the British Empire!

Actually, this is a complex point, but he is basically correct, with a few twists. The Balfour Declaration of 1926 referred to the member entities (including Australia which was a party to it) as "freely associated as members of the British Commonwealth of Nations". It was then formalised by the Statute of Westminster in 1931, dating the concept "British Commonwealth" from that date at the latest so far as the parent nation was concerned. In 1949 the term "British Commonwealth" was replaced by "Commonwealth of Nations".

In Australia, for various generally silly reasons, the Statute was not legislated until 1942, despite Australia's prior agreement. However, on its adoption it was backdated to the start of WWII.

[antichrist]

New [23-11, 10:23] antichrist: Like many European countries rounding up Jews to send to death camps - why don't you go through the list who actually helped the nazis, maybe all right wing countires
New [23-11, 09:29] Capablanca-Fan: Like Stalin: Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact.
New [23-11, 09:01] antichrist: Capa, a lot of European countries did a lot worse supporting Hitler than the Arabs did during WW2 - they all had their own agendas.
New [23-11, 05:51] Capablanca-Fan: As well as ally with Arab Muslim leaders because they shared the same goals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBFBvceJvIU
New [23-11, 05:50] Capablanca-Fan: You tell me, you are teh one who hates Jews and Chrsitians as hitler did.

[antichrist]

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world...cid=spartandhp

This link tells how during the Holocaust the Nazis put a bounty on Jews in Holland and they may have got some takers.

[MichaelBaron]

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world...cid=spartandhp

This link tells how during the Holocaust the Nazis put a bounty on Jews in Holland and they may have got some takers.

Painful read . I can recall reading her diaries for the first time while in primary school - they left a lasting impression.

[Patrick Byrom]

Painful read . I can recall reading her diaries for the first time while in primary school - they left a lasting impression.

Of course she was a refugee fleeing persecution who was given asylum (effectively). Unfortunately a large number of Jews who tried to flee Germany were rejected because countries didn't regard them as suitable immigrants.