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  1. #46
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian_Jones
    I've played Jonathan Penrose in the British. Does that make me a 4?
    Yes.

    The expanded list of known living 3s is as follows:

    Leonard Barden, Pal Benko, Arthur Bisguier, Melvin Chernev, Andrija Fuderer, Svetozar Gligorić, Dennis Horne, Borislav Ivkov, Erik Karklins, Franciscus Kuijpers, Louis Levy, Aleksandar Matanović, Fridrik Olafsson, Jonathan Penrose, Oliver Penrose, Arturo Pomar, Lothar Schmid, and Peter Swinnerton-Dyer

    Anyone who has played any of these is a 4.

  2. #47
    CC Grandmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Yes.

    The expanded list of known living 3s is as follows:

    Leonard Barden, Pal Benko, Arthur Bisguier, Melvin Chernev, Andrija Fuderer, Svetozar Gligorić, Dennis Horne, Borislav Ivkov, Erik Karklins, Franciscus Kuijpers, Louis Levy, Aleksandar Matanović, Fridrik Olafsson, Jonathan Penrose, Oliver Penrose, Arturo Pomar, Lothar Schmid, and Peter Swinnerton-Dyer

    Anyone who has played any of these is a 4.
    Of those Bisguier is the only one to have played FIDE rated games this year. Ivkov and Olafsson played games in 2008.

  3. #48
    CC Candidate Master
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    Excellent A chess related contest where the juniors are at a disadvantage!

    I'll claim a 4 through two routes, both dating back to schooldays in the UK.

    One is a simul draw against Bob Wade. The other a 10 sec lightning game against one Ernst Klein. After the game, a clubmate informed me 'that old guy you just played used to be British Champion. Evidently long retired from competitive play by then he had played some strong tournaments as far back as the 1930s and would certainly link back via Tartakower, maybe also through others such as Mieses.

  4. #49
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Abbott
    Excellent A chess related contest where the juniors are at a disadvantage!

    I'll claim a 4 through two routes, both dating back to schooldays in the UK.

    One is a simul draw against Bob Wade. The other a 10 sec lightning game against one Ernst Klein. After the game, a clubmate informed me 'that old guy you just played used to be British Champion. Evidently long retired from competitive play by then he had played some strong tournaments as far back as the 1930s and would certainly link back via Tartakower, maybe also through others such as Mieses.
    According to Wikipedia Ernst Klein won the British Championship in 1951. He was born in Vienna in 1910, came to England in 1935 and died in 1990. He played 2nd board behind Alexander in the Anglo-Soviet Radio Chess match in 1946 which was where I first heard of him as he co-authored a book of the match which I have had for many years having bought it for 1/11 reduced from 10/6 (for those who remember the old money). He played a match against Tartakower in Paris in 1935 which he lost 3 - 1. There are only two of his games on chessgames.com both from that match and both won by Tartakower.

    DJ
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

  5. #50
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    Thanks Denis. There are a few more of his games around including wins against Bogoljubow, Mieses, Pirc etc and draws against Euwe and Capablanca. It was only a few years later that I realised that I had played someone with a certain pedigree.

  6. #51
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Colliver
    So Tartakower has been moved up from being a 3 to a 2 since we started this discussion.
    In that case, Najdorf is a 3, since he described Tartakower as "my teacher", and scored +4-2=2 in published games, so I move up to 4.
    Last edited by Capablanca-Fan; 07-11-2010 at 12:26 PM.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  7. #52
    CC International Master Carl Gorka's Avatar
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    Hmmm, I'm definitely a 5 but might be a 4. I'll have to search for some old players who I played in England in the late 70's and early 80's.

    Unfortunately I haven't kept many records over the years
    I've never been so broke that I couldn't leave town

    I'm trying out a new blog site...
    http://gorkachc.blogspot.com/

    Victorian Team Championships

  8. #53
    CC International Master
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    "2! I have played an N.N." Some guy on chess.com (paraphrased)
    And still, no one has satisfactorily proven, that it isn't opposite day.

  9. #54
    CC Grandmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saragossa
    "2! I have played an N.N." Some guy on chess.com (paraphrased)
    LOL, it is good to have a smile to go to bed with
    Scott

  10. #55
    CC Grandmaster Tony Dowden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham

    Or maybe Tony D played in the Euwe simuls in NZ.
    Sorry, I didn't play in the Euwe (or Averbach) simuls in NZ (too young!).

    And I'm a 5 - I've played Jono, Sarapu and Beliavsky.
    Last edited by Tony Dowden; 11-11-2010 at 08:01 AM.

  11. #56
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    I'm a 5 from the looks of it, I played Short when he toured NZ in 2005 (as did a fair number of Kiwis).

  12. #57
    CC Grandmaster Tony Dowden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Yes.

    The expanded list of known living 3s is as follows:

    Leonard Barden, Pal Benko, Arthur Bisguier, Melvin Chernev, Andrija Fuderer, Svetozar Gligorić, Dennis Horne, Borislav Ivkov, Erik Karklins, Franciscus Kuijpers, Louis Levy, Aleksandar Matanović, Fridrik Olafsson, Jonathan Penrose, Oliver Penrose, Arturo Pomar, Lothar Schmid, and Peter Swinnerton-Dyer

    Anyone who has played any of these is a 4.
    What about deceased 3's? Or 2's?

  13. #58
    CC Grandmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Dowden
    What about deceased 3's? Or 2's?
    I think the wikipedia page is not too bad with 2's and 3's, although most of those listed under 5 should actually be under 4.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphy_number

    Scott

  14. #59
    CC FIDE Master
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    I'm no great researcher, but if chessgames.com is a credible source (and I can't see why it wouldn't be), then that wiki page isn't very accurate. For example, a simple search for Tartakower at chessgames.com reveals that he played Bob Wade at Hastings in 1953, so Wade should be a 3, not a 4. If Barden and Wade are 3s, then one suspects that most of the leading British players are 4s, despite some being listed as 5s. Fairhurst is a 3 who moved to NZ (played Mieses), and he played a bit in the 1970s.

    Looking just at Tony's games listed on chessgames.com, he's a 5 many times over (e.g. Bill Forster played Bob Wade in Queenstown). Trying to find a 3 with some sort of NZ connection that's useful isn't going so well, sadly.

    On a side note, if chessgames.com is to be believed, Rubinstein, Spielmann and Nimzovich all played Mortimer, contrary to the Wiki which has them as 3s.

  15. #60
    CC Grandmaster Garrett's Avatar
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    one would think Chessbase could write a script(s) to pull all the 1's. 2's, 3's etc out of their database if they were interested.

    Might take a while for the script(s) to run for the higher orders.

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