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  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Nazis vs Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    All of these Nazi bastards were allowed by the Australian government to die piecefully of old age in their warm beds rather than in prison.
    And mass-murdering Communist bastards have largely had a free pass, although Communism butchered even more people than Nazism (see Death by Government by Rudy Rummel).
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  2. #2
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    And mass-murdering Communist bastards have largely had a free pass, although Communism butchered even more people than Nazism (see Death by Government by Rudy Rummel).
    Thanks Jono. You have long been an apologist for the nazis. Perhaps because nazism has its roots in the antisemitism of the likes of Martin Luther.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    Thanks Jono. You have long been an apologist for the nazis. Perhaps because nazism has its roots in the antisemitism of the likes of Martin Luther.
    What bullshit (both above). Leftards like you have often downplayed the atrocities of Communists, which were even worse than those of their fellow leftists, the National Socialists, which is certainly saying something. And as already shown, the anti-semitism of the aged Luther was of a totally different variety from Hitler's. Hitler got his from 19th-century evolutionary antisemites like Teodor Fritsch (1852–1933), a notorious promoter of Aryan racial supremacy and author of The Handbook of the Jewish Question aka the Anti-Semitic Catechism.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster Spiny Norman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    Thanks Jono. You have long been an apologist for the nazis.
    You are a vile creature.
    “As you perhaps know, I haven't always been a Christian. I didn't go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don't recommend Christianity.” -- C.S.Lewis

  5. #5
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Reality check for Jono and Spiny...

    This is a thread about a figure who many regard as a perpetrator of war crimes acting as a part of the Nazi regime in WWII. For Jono to come into such a thread with a comment which amounts to "Sure the Nazis were bad but they weren't as bad as the Communists" is completely inappropriate and deserves all the contempt I feel for his small mindedness.

    I am certainly not going to get into a discussion on the numbers of people killed by various regimes here. Jono is, simply put, an insensitive rightwing agitator and in the context of this thread "Nazi apologist" is not far from the mark.

    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    This is a thread about a figure who many regard as a perpetrator of war crimes acting as a part of the Nazi regime in WWII.
    And if he was guilty as accused, then he deserved to be hanged. But these charges should have been heard in a court of law, not a trial by media.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    For Jono to come into such a thread with a comment which amounts to "Sure the Nazis were bad but they weren't as bad as the Communists" is completely inappropriate and deserves all the contempt I feel for his small mindedness.
    What is really small minded is glossing over the megademocides of the Communists, which has always been common in the ivory tower that RW inhabits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    I am certainly not going to get into a discussion on the numbers of people killed by various regimes here. Jono is, simply put, an insensitive rightwing agitator and in the context of this thread "Nazi apologist" is not far from the mark.
    Yes, you are a vile creature. ...
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  7. #7
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    As I said above my comment was more about chastising Jono for what I thought was a most inappropriate comment in the thread in question. I have no wish to continue a discussion on the comparative body count of various regimes other than to comment I view Rummel's numbers (contained in the link Jono parrots above) very suspiciously since they are generally higher than the usual numbers you see bandied about.

    Thanks Kevin for splitting the "discussion".
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  8. #8
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    I guess a problem with this whole discussion is that it is difficult to comment comparatively on Australia's treatement of murderous ex-Nazis vs murderous ex-Stalinists, because the former were hiding here and the latter were probably not. "The winners decide what were war crimes" and therefore Nazis were pursued and had reason to hide in far-flung countries, while Stalinists were not in this position. Stalinism has had an easy ride in the West by comparison but it is not something assessable in the context related to Ozols.

    Also I think Stalinism and Communism should be distinguished. Nazism and Stalinism are directly and violently repressionist, Communism is not necessarily so in theory, though whether it is sustainable without some degree of repression is something I greatly doubt.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 14-09-2010 at 02:53 PM.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    Thanks Jono. You have long been an apologist for the nazis.
    The resident forum idiot runs his mouth again, without being able to substantiate his allegations in the slightest.
    Rincewind, you a liar because what you accused Jono of is:
    1. Untrue.
    2. You know it's untrue.
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  10. #10
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Igor_Goldenberg
    The resident forum idiot runs his mouth again, without being able to substantiate his allegations in the slightest.
    Rincewind, you a liar because what you accused Jono of is:
    1. Untrue.
    2. You know it's untrue.
    I will put down your simplistic evaluation to your simplistic mindset as well as your long-standing reputation as a Jono nuthugger. Perhaps you should waddle of to a discussion you can actually understand. Although that might take some finding.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster Garrett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    Thanks Jono. You have long been an apologist for the nazis.
    That is not my interpretation from reading Jono's comment and I cannot recall Jono acting as an apologist for Nazi's in the past.

  12. #12
    CC International Master Goughfather's Avatar
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    To the extent that the suggestion that Jono is an apologist for the Nazis is an offensive statement, his implicit assumption that members of the left are apologists for Communism are equally as offensive thus rendering his whinging about being vilified as somewhat disingenous. The vast majority of those who identify as left-leaning have no truck whatsoever with Stalinism. I certainly don't and to the extent that anyone does, I regard them as fringe dwellers.

    In my opinion to embrace Stalinism in toto certainly places someone outside of the mainstream, but appealing to quotes, or even maxims by leaders of such ilk does not warrant being labelled a Stalinist by trolls such as Jono. One can see the truth in the statement "Power comes from the barrel of a gun" (as legal philosopher John Austin or political philosopher Thomas Hobbes would assert) without approving of the millions of murders committed by Mao Tse-Tung or of the philosophical justification of such a course of action.

    Regarding Martin Luther's anti-semitism and Adolf Hitler, Hitler certainly did appeal to Luther, but he also appealled to a number of different strands which allowed him to perpetuate his perverted ideology. Luther's anti-semitic diatribes were written in his latter years and don't appear to share any theological and/or philosophical unity with his earlier writings. Nor could they provide any real basis for a systematic body of thought in and of itself. They were simply the embittered ramblings of a prematurely aging man who was suffering from various physical and mental infirmities.
    Last edited by Goughfather; 14-09-2010 at 06:04 PM.
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  13. #13
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett
    That is not my interpretation from reading Jono's comment and I cannot recall Jono acting as an apologist for Nazi's in the past.
    Jono has certainly put forward the argument that the Nazi atrocities were not as bad as atrocities committed by Stalin and other regimes. I would not go so far as to say that constitutes Nazi apologetics in the strict definition but I did feel his comment in the thread was verging on that given the context since the comparison was introduced by Jono. It seemed off to me that someone would bring up the argument that the Nazis were treated tough by comparison in a thread about someone who was charged with war crimes but was never tried. And such an argument could be advanced without making the case that by comparison the Nazis were not as bad as some other violently repressive regime.

    I think it is the comparison of magnitude of atrocities in a thread dealing specifically with one regime which is the problem.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  14. #14
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    I don't think Jono is anywhere near being an apologist for Nazism. I do think, however, that he dislikes the Left so strongly that his opportunism in jumping in and making an anti-left statement, even in a context where it might be seen as irrelevant or even offensive, knows very few bounds.

    I think it is the comparison of magnitude of atrocities in a thread dealing specifically with one regime which is the problem.
    I am also no fan of this. Both were exceedingly vile regimes and there have been many other exceedingly vile regimes. Whether such regimes kill one million or ten million or sixty million makes little difference to their intrinsic vileness or to the extent to which those behind them should be brought to justice.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 14-09-2010 at 06:59 PM.
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  15. #15
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughfather
    Hitler certainly did appeal to Luther,
    No!
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