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  1. #1
    CC International Master Carl Gorka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    The constitution doesnt as the items you quoted are from By-laws not from the ACF constitution.
    You are quite correct. Perhaps you can answer this one....

    Is the rumour true that you proposed a motion seeking to ban Victorian Juniors from rated events around Australia?
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  2. #2
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireeater
    You are quite correct. Perhaps you can answer this one....

    Is the rumour true that you proposed a motion seeking to ban Victorian Juniors from rated events around Australia?
    That is rubbish.
    Which clueless idiot told you that.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  3. #3
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireeater
    I thought it might be Chinese whispers...gossip blows things all out of proportion, just like when you were asking about rumours about the MCC last year.

    So, what exactly did you suggest regarding Victorian Juniors?
    CV currently has an outstanding debt of $4956 to the ACF for school team levy fees going back to 2008 that they seem reluctant to pay. It is hoped CV will arrange to pay this outstanding debt at their next scheduled committee meeting on 5th August 2010.

    If this does not occur then the ACF Executive will consider the possibility of imposing sanctions on CV similar to those that have been raised in previous, similar cases, i.e.
    No CV teams permitted to play in any Australian Schools Teams Championship event including the 2010 event.
    No CV junior eligible for selection for overseas events or endorsed for overseas events and no grants paid (current selections not affected.).
    No CV junior accepted into future Johns-Putra Elite Training Squads.
    No CV Junior eligible to win any ACF Junior title.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  4. #4
    CC International Master Carl Gorka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    CV currently has an outstanding debt of $4956 to the ACF for school team levy fees going back to 2008 that they seem reluctant to pay. It is hoped CV will arrange to pay this outstanding debt at their next scheduled committee meeting on 5th August 2010.

    If this does not occur then the ACF Executive will consider the possibility of imposing sanctions on CV similar to those that have been raised in previous, similar cases, i.e.
    No CV teams permitted to play in any Australian Schools Teams Championship event including the 2010 event.
    No CV junior eligible for selection for overseas events or endorsed for overseas events and no grants paid (current selections not affected.).
    No CV junior accepted into future Johns-Putra Elite Training Squads.
    No CV Junior eligible to win any ACF Junior title.
    Could this be imposed for the upcoming event which is to be held in Victoria?
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireeater
    Could this be imposed for the upcoming event which is to be held in Victoria?
    LOL. I would love to see that . Held in Victoria but without Victorians...would love to see an idiot who makes such a decision . It would be just like a World Cup without South African team
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  6. #6
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireeater
    Could this be imposed for the upcoming event which is to be held in Victoria?
    Yes.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  7. #7
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    LOL. I would love to see that . Held in Victoria but without Victorians...would love to see an idiot who makes such a decision . It would be just like a World Cup without South African team
    The only idiot here is you as you clearly cannot read.
    It does not say Victorians are not permitted to play, just they could not win any titles.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    CV currently has an outstanding debt of $4956 to the ACF for school team levy fees going back to 2008 that they seem reluctant to pay. It is hoped CV will arrange to pay this outstanding debt at their next scheduled committee meeting on 5th August 2010.

    If this does not occur then the ACF Executive will consider the possibility of imposing sanctions on CV similar to those that have been raised in previous, similar cases, i.e.
    No CV teams permitted to play in any Australian Schools Teams Championship event including the 2010 event.
    No CV junior eligible for selection for overseas events or endorsed for overseas events and no grants paid (current selections not affected.).
    No CV junior accepted into future Johns-Putra Elite Training Squads.
    No CV Junior eligible to win any ACF Junior title.
    Don't make stupid threats, Bill.

    This is just as bad as the 1980s when Gary Wastell tried to get me banned from playing internationally because my State, NSW, was arguing over a debt with the ACF.

    The ACF should be supporting Victoria's talented juniors such as Bobby Cheng, not using them as collateral for an unpaid debt and banning them from representing Australia.

    Your argument is not with individual juniors, who have miniscule influence on VCA policy, so pull your head in and please assure all Victorian juniors that they will never be made scapegoats for the ACF and VCA's political failings.

  9. #9
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Rogers
    Don't make stupid threats, Bill.
    Actually the ACF passed similar motions in 2008 when the ACTJCL and CV were in arrears. The fees were promptly paid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Rogers
    The ACF should be supporting Victoria's talented juniors such as Bobby Cheng, not using them as collateral for an unpaid debt and banning them from representing Australia.

    Your argument is not with individual juniors, who have miniscule influence on VCA policy, so pull your head in and please assure all Victorian juniors that they will never be made scapegoats for the ACF and VCA's political failings.
    I am not saying it will happen, just that it could given such sanctions have been used in similar situations previously.

    As for political failing the only one failing here is with CV.

    Virtually all of the School Teams Levy has been given to the AusJCL in the past couple of years.

    CV by not paying any of those fees have contributed nothing to the funding of the AusJCL.

    In your opinion what action should the ACF take against CV to ensure the fees are promptly paid.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  10. #10
    CC International Master Carl Gorka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    The only idiot here is you as you clearly cannot read.
    It does not say Victorians are not permitted to play, just they could not win any titles.
    This could very well ruin the tournament. Have you made the Aus Junior organisers aware of the fact that these sanctions may be imposed?
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  11. #11
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireeater
    This could very well ruin the tournament. Have you made the Aus Junior organisers aware of the fact that these sanctions may be imposed?
    Lets not get ahead of ourselves here.
    CV could agree to pay the debt at their upcoming meeting and the ACF has taken no decision as to what actions if any it will take against CV if the debt is not paid.
    Also although the sanctions listed are those used in similar circumstances in the past, I would prefer that the ACF decide to use a different set of sanctions against CV that would not impact Victorian juniors.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  12. #12
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    I am curious how to explain to 8 yo kids that they can not win a national title because ''aunty from CV'' has not given some money to ''uncle from ACF'' Do they really care?
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  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Is the debt disputed? If so, is resolution occurring?

    If not disputed, has reason for non-payment been forthcoming? Has an apology/ payment plan been offered? Is CV just pissing about and trying the ACF's patience? What time-frame (overdue) are we talking about?

    If CV is merely pushing buttons and obfuscating, what would Ian, Carl and Mike suggest the appropriate course to be? Do Ian, Carl and Mike feel they are being objective, given their Vic POV? If yes Objectivity), why then are they not making public statements requesting CV to explain their default (questioning both the cause, not just the effect)?

    I wonder if parents of Vic juniors will ask why their state body isn't paying its bill.
    Last edited by Basil; 01-08-2010 at 11:44 AM.
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  14. #14
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Underpants
    Is the debt disputed? If so, is resolution occurring?
    The amount isnt disputed. The new CV Treasurer is questioning the ACF's right to be able to levy CV in the first place.
    He makes the following false claims/assumptions:

    1) CV isnt a member of the ACF and as such is not under any contractual obligation to the ACF.
    2) That decisions of the ACF are only morally binding on CV not legally binding.
    3) CV delegates(s) to the ACF even if they supported decisions of the ACF at the time, do not have the power to bind future CV Executives.
    4) That CV should be able to dictate how the ACF spends the levy money.

    Unfortunately it is clear he does not know what he is talking about.

    CV as an affiliated State Association is clearly a member of the ACF and represented on the ACF Council by CV's appointed delegate and at the ACF National Conferences by CV appointed delegates.

    As a member of the ACF, CV is legally obliged to pay any ACF fees or levies.

    The ACF can spend/allocate the levy money how it chooses.
    In the past few years virtually all of the levy money has gone to the AusJCL.

    In fact if as CV claims CV is not a member of the ACF then Victorian players would have no rights be they adults or juniors to any ACF titles etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Underpants
    If not disputed, has reason for non-payment been forthcoming? Has an apology/ payment plan been offered? Is CV just pissing about and trying the ACF's patience? What time-frame (overdue) are we talking about?
    The debt consists of the 2008, 2009 and 2010 school levies.
    Note these levies are calculated on the same basis as the 2007 levy which CV has previously paid.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Underpants
    Is the debt disputed? If so, is resolution occurring?

    If not disputed, has reason for non-payment been forthcoming? Has an apology/ payment plan been offered? Is CV just pissing about and trying the ACF's patience? What time-frame (overdue) are we talking about?

    If CV is merely pushing buttons and obfuscating, what would Ian, Carl and Mike suggest the appropriate course to be? Do Ian, Carl and Mike feel they are being objective, given their Vic POV? If yes Objectivity), why then are they not making public statements requesting CV to explain their default (questioning both the cause, not just the effect)?

    I wonder if parents of Vic juniors will ask why their state body isn't paying its bill.
    CU, I am not disputing the debt. Furthermore, I am not concerned about the nature of the argument. What i am concerned about is that kids may end up suffering from the consequences of a dispute between the adults.

    Btw, I have been having doubts what is the use of ACF membership to Vic chess players (if only we could get our tournaments rated directly by Fide etc). But this is a separate issue alltogether.
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