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  1. #1
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    Mt Buller Australian Minor Chess Championships

    I wouldn't normally consider yet another poorly thought out ggraygray comment enough to inspire a new thread, but most of the Mt. Buller threads seem to have been locked in the last few days (ostensibly because they were getting too long).

    Australian Chess/Mt. Buller Chess/ Mt. Buller - ACF announcement #125
    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnatus
    Why has the Mt. Buller Organising Committee failed to observe Clause 35 of the By-laws for ACF Tournaments concerning entry fee concessions.

    "35. A concession entry fee is to be offered in all ACF events. The minimum concession shall be a reduction of 25per cent of the full entry fee. Persons eligible for a concession entry fee are juniors, full-time students and holders of a Commonwealth Government healthcare card. "

    Australian Chess Federation Newsletter No.280 (1 Sept. 2004):

    "The Mt Buller Australian Minor Chess Championships
    ...
    Prices: $60 adult (by December 1). $80 adult (after december 1 and before december 15).
    Concession and junior entry fee: $50 early, $70 late.
    Entries close: December 15.
    Contact: Garvin Gray, ph 0422993062
    garvingray@mtbullerchess.com"
    Australian Chess/Mt. Buller Chess/ Mt. Buller - ACF announcement #126
    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    the minor tournament is not an official acf event. We dont have to run it, there are no by laws about it or how it is to be run, so we are free to set our conditions for it.
    I now expect this sort of facile, after-the-fact justification from the Mt. Buller team to justify their planning failures.

    Anyway ... if "The Mt Buller Australian Minor Chess Championships" is not actually an ACF event, it shouldn't carry the "Australian" moniker.

  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnatus
    Anyway ... if "The Mt Buller Australian Minor Chess Championships" is not actually an ACF event, it shouldn't carry the "Australian" moniker.
    I posted the following quote in the no- reply announcement thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    The Mt Buller Minor Tournament

    Dates: Sunday 2nd January- Wednesday 5th January 2005

    Details: 8 round Swiss draw, 2 round per day, 90 minutes + 30 seconds

    Prizes: 1st-3rd place + rating prizes. Top prize is $500!

    Prices: $60 adult (early bird fees). $80 adult (late). Concession and junior entry fee: $50 early, $70 late.

    Contact: Garvin Gray, ph 0422993062 garvingray@mtbullerchess.com
    you see that it does not contain any mention of the word Australian in the heading. The edit i made on 24/8 was to add my mtbuller email addy.

    I then copied the above advertising to Paul B to add to the bulletins. I dont know how the word Australian got into the title as i did not put it there. I have since emailed Paul and asked him to withdraw the word Australia from the minor heading.

    I now expect this sort of facile, after-the-fact justification from the Mt. Buller team to justify their planning failures.
    A few questions for you since you seem so able to ask questions, lets see if you can answer them, i doubt you can

    1) Planning failures, please inform me, in your opinion, how we have made planning failures?
    2) Who are you? Surely this is an easy enough question for you to answer. You claimed stuff about mcc/cv/acf previously.
    3) Why would anyone want to try and organise events when they have to deal with other people trying to scuttle the organised events


    A piece of advice for you mr who ever you are: I take it you are from victoria, probably aligned in some way with cordover. Therefore, i would be very careful about the accusations and dispersions you make about planning failures. Because it will come back to bite you on the backside very hard and painfully.

    Question Numbers 4 to 6 for you: Why dont you ask your questions in George Howard's direction? whats wrong, havent got the guts to do it? Afraid you might not get the answer that suits your agenda? Here is his email address: georgeshoward@hotmail.com. Go annoy him instead of me

    Question Number 7:
    Where was that detailed description you were going to give of the previous problems with cv/mcc/acf? Not that it really matters cause this bid has nothing to do with cv organisational wise. But since you were so keen to throw that situation at me, you might as well answer my question now.

    If you fail to answer all my questions, then you will start getting the same response that amiel gets to his questions: email George Howard at georgeshoward@hotmail.com

  3. #3
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    It should also be noted that the word Australian does not appear in the title of the Mt Buller Minor in the advert in Brian's Sept/October issue of Australian Chess.

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    also cinny has used the word australian in his thread title

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    A few questions for you since you seem so able to ask questions, lets see if you can answer them, i doubt you can


    2) Who are you? Surely this is an easy enough question for you to answer. You claimed stuff about mcc/cv/acf previously.
    The identity of Cin. has taxed a few of us. But clearly his main beef so far has been the mcc/cv/acf dispute re one particular tournament, run by the MCC. I believe one party in this dispute really feels dudded and hence Cin.'s focus on accuracy of contracts. He seems to have picked up an inconsistency in the description of the Minor tournament; I think it was a legitimate issue for him to raise. (Particularly so given the Welshmen's treatment of the GURU for using the 'Australian' tag.)

    So, you tell us, the resolution was just an error in 'communications'. That was the GURU's claim also.



    A piece of advice for you mr who ever you are: I take it you are from victoria, probably aligned in some way with cordover.
    I don't know Cin.'s identity but have been guessing. I would not place my money on any connection with Cordover. I think you are wrong.

    Therefore, i would be very careful about the accusations and dispersions you make about planning failures. Because it will come back to bite you on the backside very hard and painfully.
    And I think you will proved wrong on this too.

    Question Numbers 4 to 6 for you: Why dont you ask your questions in George Howard's direction? Here is his email address: georgeshoward@hotmail.com.
    Requesting us to ask questions by private e-mail is just a tactic to stifle debate gg''.


    Go annoy him instead of me
    But you are the publicised contact.



    If you fail to answer all my questions, then you will start getting the same response that amiel gets to his questions: email George Howard at georgeshoward@hotmail.com
    Harsh treatment for a poster who picked up an error in the printed copy of your advertising and helped you by bringing it to your attention early.

    starter

  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    There is clearly a concerted effort to hide everything under the table that is related to this fiasco. Where is Mr Howard? Why does he not come out of hiding instead of relying on his whipping boy?

    AR

  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    There is clearly a concerted effort to hide everything under the table that is related to this fiasco. Where is Mr Howard? Why does he not come out of hiding instead of relying on his whipping boy?

    AR
    cause he has had a gutful of your trash and trolling and doesnt either bother reading here anymore. And i dont blame him. We all have better things to do with our time than reply to your trash amiel. If you think i am not being civilised to you anymore, you are right

  8. #8
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starter
    He seems to have picked up an inconsistency in the description of the Minor tournament; I think it was a legitimate issue for him to raise. (Particularly so given the Welshmen's treatment of the GURU for using the 'Australian' tag.)
    For your information the issue with Guru using the Australian tag for the minor was because the Victorian contingent (jammo and G.W.) on the ACF back oin 2002 had raised the exact same issue with Brian Jones use of the word in his running of the Minor at Penrith. Thats why it was changed and called the Penrith Minor.

  9. #9
    CC Candidate Master AES's Avatar
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    Hi all,

    I would like to officially apologise for the word Australian getting into the title of the tournament. I take full responsiblity for this as i wrote the advertisement for the bulletin and emailed it to Paul B.

    It certainly wasn't intentional, and i will ensure it does not get into any future advertisements.

    Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

    Cheers,
    Alex Saint.

  10. #10
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AES
    Hi all,

    I would like to officially apologise for the word Australian getting into the title of the tournament. I take full responsiblity for this as i wrote the advertisement for the bulletin and emailed it to Paul B.

    It certainly wasn't intentional, and i will ensure it does not get into any future advertisements.

    Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

    Cheers,
    Alex Saint.
    Hey, no probs! I think a few more people around here could take a leaf out of your book. Simple human mistake->Simple acknowledgement of it->Simply move on.

  11. #11
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    cause he has had a gutful of your trash and trolling and doesnt either bother reading here anymore.
    My impression was that it was the trolling and trash from the Victorian hotheads that drove George away, rather than AR being the culprit. Though I suspect it would not have made much difference. AR is far more skilled at the game than the lot of them put together.

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnatus
    I wouldn't normally consider yet another poorly thought out ggraygray comment enough to inspire a new thread, but most of the Mt. Buller threads seem to have been locked in the last few days (ostensibly because they were getting too long).
    No "ostensibly" about it. I had actually been considering locking the big one myself for the same reason, but hadn't got around to it. Splitting a thread with over 600 posts on it, for instance, is an incredibly tedious business.

    Quote Originally Posted by starter
    He seems to have picked up an inconsistency in the description of the Minor tournament; I think it was a legitimate issue for him to raise.
    I agree. I would like to congratulate cincinnatus on actually raising a legitimate issue on this board, a giant step in his posting career. There really is a first time for everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Sweeney
    Hey, no probs! I think a few more people around here could take a leaf out of your book. Simple human mistake->Simple acknowledgement of it->Simply move on.
    Well said.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 06-09-2004 at 05:31 AM.

  12. #12
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    Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    My impression was that it was the trolling and trash from the Victorian hotheads that drove George away, rather than AR being the culprit. Though I suspect it would not have made much difference. AR is far more skilled at the game than the lot of them put together.
    Oi KB,

    You can't just leave it at 'from the Victorian hotheads '.
    Am I in that?
    And since it is plural...who?

    starter

  13. #13
    CC Candidate Master jeffrei's Avatar
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    Surely not me, cause George kept posting here long after I was placated. I was happy with the fact that he gave a personal financial guarantee and that he set aside a considerable sum of money from the tournament for the juniors, instead of merely running it as a slush fund for the Open (could someone remind me exactly how much it was? $9000?).

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    For your information the issue with Guru using the Australian tag for the minor was because the Victorian contingent (jammo and G.W.) on the ACF back in 2002 had raised the exact same issue with Brian Jones use of the word in his running of the Minor at Penrith. Thats why it was changed and called the Penrith Minor.
    hi Bill

    This was news to me that jammo and GW had an issue with the naming of the Minor (in Penrith).
    I had not noticed if the GURU used the AUS tag when he advertised his now aborted Mt B. Minor. Did he?

    starter

  15. #15
    CC International Master
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    Well I've said it before and I'll say it again - there is going to be a problem with stupid anonymous trolls and Victorian hotheads when the only requirement to post on this board is to register a user name. If people were required to disclose their names, and IP addreses were identified on messages, the problem would be considerably reduced.

    People may complain about AR's performance but he is doing it openly and taking responsibility, and he can be called to account - for instance when his club is organising a major event and wants support, or at least not sabotage, from other people. People who are able to post under pseudonyms with little prospect of having their identities (and motivations and vested interests) uncovered have no incentive to behave in a constructive and mature manner.

    While this is not an official ACF bulletin board, it has some connections in that ACF officers post announcements here (often before or instead of on the ACF website) and a number of current and past moderators have had official ACF duties. I can see it being a problem getting volunteers to run events like the Australian Open in future if they have to put up with endless anonymous grizzling and abuse on what is a least a quasi-ACF bulletin board.

    Of course it's true that the really smart trolls will find a way to get around any system, but at least some rudimentary controls would screen out a lot of the nonsense. And having smart trolls on here would be a considerable advance.

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