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Thread: Tony Abbott

  1. #1
    Account Shoutbox Banned antichrist's Avatar
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    Tony Abbott

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    16-07-2010 06:19 PM antichrist
    [Edit | Delete] Abbot preferred to still have women hacked in abortion rather than allow RU486 - how any woman or aware man could ever consider vote for him I will never understand


    16-07-2010 07:41 PM Spiny Norman
    AC, your inability to understand is legendary mate; so don't sweat it, you'll work it out one day ...

    Now Spiny, what part don't I understand?
    That women are autoneous and should be able to make their own decisions as it affects their body and life? As Janis Joplin told a youngster: Don't let any male bastard boss you in your life. And Abbott was exactly who she meant!

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    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Peter, when John Howard proposed the Pacific Solution, lefties howled. When Gillard proposed the same, lefties shuffled their feet, or went out for a smoke and some even said it was the way she proposed it (LMFAO).

    And now to abortion. Lefties and righties struggle with conscience on this issue. Now Abbott's position is well known - and you disagree with it. But what, Peter, do you say of the very many lefties (friends and politicians) who hold the same position as Abbott? Will you berate them - or will I find you outside having a smoke?
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

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    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Underpants
    Peter, when John Howard proposed the Pacific Solution, lefties howled. When Gillard proposed the same, lefties shuffled their feet, or went out for a smoke and some even said it was the way she proposed it
    When Gillard starts wearing budgie smugglers, then I'll start worrying

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray
    When Gillard starts wearing budgie smugglers, then I'll start worrying
    Well apart from not answering the question (which probably belongs in Questions. Lefties. Choke), I don't understand what you're saying.
    Last edited by Basil; 17-07-2010 at 01:01 PM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

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    CC Grandmaster Spiny Norman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray
    When Gillard starts wearing budgie smugglers, then I'll start worrying
    Are you suggesting Gillard has budgies tucked away somewhere???
    “As you perhaps know, I haven't always been a Christian. I didn't go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don't recommend Christianity.” -- C.S.Lewis

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    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiny Norman
    Are you suggesting Gillard has budgies tucked away somewhere???
    Who would look better in a pair of budgie smugglers would probably be the most interesting debate of the election campaign

  7. #7
    Account Shoutbox Banned antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Underpants
    Peter, when John Howard proposed the Pacific Solution, lefties howled. When Gillard proposed the same, lefties shuffled their feet, or went out for a smoke and some even said it was the way she proposed it (LMFAO).

    And now to abortion. Lefties and righties struggle with conscience on this issue. Now Abbott's position is well known - and you disagree with it. But what, Peter, do you say of the very many lefties (friends and politicians) who hold the same position as Abbott? Will you berate them - or will I find you outside having a smoke?
    They may very well hold the same position personally but they adhere to party line (sometimes a good thing and sometimes otherwise) and vote for women's autonomy. And one reason may be that they know that the rich and connected can still get safe abortions even if such are banned, but the working class women cannot and so get lumped carrying the bundle, illegally hacked or having to flee to NSW (from Qld as used to be in my youth).

    Whereas men who certainly greatly helped causing the damage does a runner (to Nth Qld in my youth) or blah blah. Then Abbott will come along and add more hurt to injury. If only Mary could have had one we would have been spared the Jesus Freaks.

    Howard, you could accuse Lefty youth of more abandon in sowing their wild oats.
    Last edited by antichrist; 17-07-2010 at 01:49 PM.

  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    They may very well hold the same position personally but they adhere to party line ...
    Not if it's a conscience vote. And as I asked you originally, if a lefty politician voted the same as Abbott, would he/ she be vilified by you?
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  9. #9
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    They may very well hold the same position personally but they adhere to party line (sometimes a good thing and sometimes otherwise) and vote for women's autonomy.
    Not true. This is a conscience vote issue where you can see where politicians on both sides really stand. So actually you weaken your case by saying the above when it would be better to query whether there are really that many in the first place.

    And this is how to do it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Underpants
    But what, Peter, do you say of the very many lefties (friends and politicians) who hold the same position as Abbott?
    Are there really very many lefty politicians who hold that position?

    In the Senate RU-486 vote Labor was split 21-7. And of the Labor Senators who voted for the Abbott side of the debate, the likes of Stephen Conroy and Helen Polley could not be considered left-wing by any sane measure. These people may be Labor but in terms of their views on social policy they may as well be Family First.

    In the Reps Labor was split 54-5.

    Every Labor politician who voted for Abbott's side of the legislation was male.

    No Greens or Democrats voted with Abbott and the only Independent to do so was Katter. That said, a brain probe on Christine Milne's thought processes might have been interesting.

    Similarly, while one does come across anti-abortion lefties now and then, I suspect CU exaggerates when he says there are "very many".
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  10. #10
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Are there really very many lefty politicians who hold that position?
    I said politicians and friends.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    In the Senate RU-486 vote Labor was split 21-7.
    25%. That's a significant number.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    And of the Labor Senators who voted for the Abbott side of the debate, the likes of Stephen Conroy and Helen Polley could not be considered left-wing by any sane measure.
    What? Leave it alone. They're lefty politicians. They're lefties for goodness sake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    In the Reps Labor was split 54-5. Every Labor politician who voted for Abbott's side of the legislation was male. Similarly, while one does come across anti-abortion lefties now and then, I suspect CU exaggerates when he says there are "very many".
    I refer you to first reply where you have excluded "and friends". We could have a futile debate about whether I meant
    a) collectively very many politicians and friends, or as you seem to be interpreting my statement,
    b) both very many politicians and very many friends.

    But instead (for the purposes of saving distraction from the central question of double standard) I shall modify my original statement to 'many politicians and friends'. The idea being that will such a lefty be vilified? Or are we yet again at the magnificent catch-all double standard in which all lefties wallow at one stage or other in their ideological game of Twister - "it's not the message but the messenger".
    Last edited by Basil; 17-07-2010 at 02:47 PM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  11. #11
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Underpants
    What? Leave it alone. They're lefty politicians. They're lefties for goodness sake.
    No they are not. They are, in fact, examples of the strength of the evidence that the blanket classification of all Laborites as "lefties" is completely unsustainable.

    I refer you to first reply where you have excluded "and friends". We could have a futile debate about whether I meant
    a) collectively very many politicians and friends, or as you seem to be interpreting my statement,
    b) both very many politicians and very many friends.
    I am actually interpreting it as the latter. But I don't believe "very many" stands up in either case. I actually believe that very few politicians who are anti-abortion could sanely be considered lefties.

    But instead (for the purposes of saving distraction from the central question of double standard) I shall modify my original statement to 'many politicians and friends'.
    I would modify the "many" to "some" in the case of lefties in the general populace (the "friends" component), and in the case of politicians I am not sure there are even any really convincing Australian examples. Might be worth a look at the factional lineups of the remaining 10 Labor MPs who voted for RU-486, but info on that isn't all that easy to find. That said there are probably some lefty politicians who have anti-abortion leanings but don't dare to vote that way (I mentioned one rumoured example above.)
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  12. #12
    Account Shoutbox Banned antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Underpants
    Not if it's a conscience vote. And as I asked you originally, if a lefty politician voted the same as Abbott, would he/ she be vilified by you?
    Labor politicians still have to face their pre-selection voters, power-brokers and comrades and comradesses at state, national, women and youth conferences. They certainly also take this into account when casting their so-called conscious vote.


    And right so, if these groups cannot be personally represented in the parliament their voice should also be heard for the work they do in carrying the party. It is not just the politicians party.

  13. #13
    Account Shoutbox Banned antichrist's Avatar
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    Gunnar, are you going to dispute that the rich and well-connected can usually get safe abortions even if illegal? Even if have to go to another country for example.

    So to an extent it is also a class issue.

  14. #14
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    No they are not. They are, in fact, examples of the strength of the evidence that the blanket classification of all Laborites as "lefties" is completely unsustainable.
    FFS Kevin. 'Lefties', in common parlance means people who vote left and that certainly captures left wing polis. While the whole left-right paradigm can be debated to any degreed outcome (Axiom's pet), it is wholly disingenuous or pedantic in the broad context of this Abbott - Liberal - Labor discussion to discount two Labor politicians as non-lefties. And regardless of your interpretation, no matter how tortured, it is my use of the word and lefty in this debate and I'm here to tell you that I'm capturing those people with my definition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    I would modify the "many" to "some".
    'Some' it is.
    Last edited by Basil; 17-07-2010 at 04:27 PM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  15. #15
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    Labor politicians still have to face their pre-selection voters, power-brokers and comrades and comradesses at state, national, women and youth conferences. They certainly also take this into account when casting their so-called conscious vote.


    And right so, if these groups cannot be personally represented in the parliament their voice should also be heard for the work they do in carrying the party. It is not just the politicians party.
    You're not going to answer the question, are you? Again, if a left wing politician (Labor if you prefer), held the same position as Abbott, would you vilify him/ her? Yes or no?
    Last edited by Basil; 17-07-2010 at 05:05 PM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

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