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  1. #16
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    All the more so if White plays 1.c4 e4 2.Nf3 e4 3.Ne5 d6.

    Pawn: The fastest solution I have found is 1.f4 e6 2.b4 Bd6, but I'm not sure if it meets all four requirements.

    Edit: If the above solution doesn't meet the requirements, then I think 1.f4 d5 2.b4 Qd6 does.
    Last edited by Max Illingworth; 30-06-2010 at 10:57 PM.

  2. #17
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viewed
    All the more so if White plays 1.c4 e4 2.Nf3 e4 3.Ne5 d6.

    Pawn: The fastest solution I have found is 1.f4 e6 2.b4 Bd6, but I'm not sure if it meets all four requirements.

    Edit: If the above solution doesn't meet the requirements, then I think 1.f4 d5 2.b4 Qd6 does.
    Both of those are forks, in that no matter what move white chooses, white must lose a pawn. But neither pawn is individually trapped so that that specific pawn must go next move. Also, after 1.f4 d5 2.b4 Qd6 white can play 3.Nc3 and in neither case does the capture of the pawn immediately win material without compensation. (Though perhaps black will pick up another pawn pretty fast.)

    What I'm after for pawn is a situation where a specific pawn is trapped so it will be lost for nothing whatever the player to move does. Something like:

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    technically qualifies but it's a silly case since the pawn could have been taken the move before anyway.

    It seems like the potential of pawns to protect each other means this will have to take three moves, since any pawn on the 4th or 5th rank might be protected by another pawn. But perhaps there is some way around that.

  3. #18
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    1 b4 works and was played!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    I've had a look at some quick traps for other pieces. Maybe others can improve on these.

    ...
    Rook

    Here there are 3-move solutions for white but again they tend to be crude and unsatisfactory.

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    If you change that to 1 b4 and 2...Bxb4, then I have played it - and fortunately as White. It was a 5 minute game IIRC. I think I won in 4 moves.
    God exists. Short and to the point.

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  4. #19
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski
    If you change that to 1 b4 and 2...Bxb4, then I have played it - and fortunately as White. It was a 5 minute game IIRC. I think I won in 4 moves.
    Yes; I have seen it several times and it even cropped up in this year's Tas Champs where the victim was an improving junior who should have known better.

    In the late 80s or very early 90s there was a curious case in Tassie where a c.1600s player (that is much stronger than 1600 now) who was rumoured to have a personal dream of playing against Botvinnik, came up against a c.1000 strength player with the surname Botvinik (with one n), who played 1.b4 against him and won the rook within the first 7-8 moves. However the victim fought back and eventually despite his dream turning into a parallel universe nightmare, he still managed a draw.

  5. #20
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    I think that from now on, solutions should not involve putting the trapped piece en prise.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  6. #21
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    Pawn: 1.f4 h5 2.f5 d5.

  7. #22
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    I think that from now on, solutions should not involve putting the trapped piece en prise.
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viewed
    Pawn: 1.f4 h5 2.f5 d5.
    This is an improvement in that a pawn will certainly be lost, but again, the f-pawn itself specifically isn't immediately trapped (ie white can prevent the f-pawn being soundly taken next move by choosing to lose a different pawn instead.)

  8. #23
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    This traps a pawn but white appears to have some compensation so I am not sure it quite meets the criteria.

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    This is one move quicker and White has less for the pawn.

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    Scott

  9. #24
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Colliver
    This traps a pawn but white appears to have some compensation so I am not sure it quite meets the criteria.

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    White can immediately play 6.Nc3 threatening that if black takes the pawn, white plays Bxb5 recovering it.

    This is one move quicker and White has less for the pawn.

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    I quite like that one, although there is still a minor flaw. That is that white can prevent the a-pawn being taken immediately without compensation by playing 5.b4 or 5.d4, threatening to respond to Bxa6 with b/dxc5 which the queen cannot take back as it is overloaded. These moves are only delaying actions since white will end up losing more pawns and the a-pawn remains stuck but conditions 1 and 2 combined call for the trapped pawn to be able to be taken straightaway without adequate compensation.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    White can immediately play 6.Nc3 threatening that if black takes the pawn, white plays Bxb5 recovering it.
    Yes you are right. Black can play 6... c6 but is really tiked up in knots and white as more than enough compensation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    I quite like that one, although there is still a minor flaw. That is that white can prevent the a-pawn being taken immediately without compensation by playing 5.b4 or 5.d4, threatening to respond to Bxa6 with b/dxc5 which the queen cannot take back as it is overloaded. These moves are only delaying actions since white will end up losing more pawns and the a-pawn remains stuck but conditions 1 and 2 combined call for the trapped pawn to be able to be taken straightaway without adequate compensation.
    I totally missed your idea so yes it fails which is pity because I really liked this one.
    I have not given up.
    Scott

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