View Poll Results: Are you more or less likely to vote for (or preference) Labor with Gillard as PM

Voters
37. You may not vote on this poll
  • Much more likely

    7 18.92%
  • Slightly more likely

    4 10.81%
  • Slightly less likely

    1 2.70%
  • Much less likely

    3 8.11%
  • No difference - would have voted (or preferenced) Labor anyway

    6 16.22%
  • No difference - would not have voted (or preferenced) Labor anyway

    10 27.03%
  • No difference, but not sure which major party I'll vote for or preference yet

    1 2.70%
  • Can't vote in the election, or won't vote formally

    5 13.51%
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  1. #31
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Moderation Notice

    Moved reply to my comments about abortion and sexism, and subsequent discussion to the abortion thread and later today I will attempt to split the is-Abbott-sexist debate to a new thread if I can do so reasonably cleanly.

  2. #32
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Historic first, or just a re-run of history
    Sophie Mirabella, 25 June 2010

    ...

    What about the “first” female State Premiers? Think Carmen Lawrence in WA, Joan Kirner in Victoria, Kristina Keneally in NSW and Anna Bligh in Qld. All were installed, not elected, all were handed a poisoned chalice, all were used as a last resort, all were part of and inherited dysfunctional, rotten-at-the-core Labor Governments.

    Nothing’s changed, as Ms Gillard admitted today when she said that the Government (of which she was second-in-command) had “lost it’s way”. While Kevin Rudd has taken the fall, it’s important to remember that Gillard herself was Acting PM for about a quarter of the time during Rudd’s first 18 months.

    ...

    The only thing worse than Rudd standing for nothing would be Gillard standing for her left-wing principles; bigger spending Government, more incentive-stripping taxes, and an outdated, expensive and ultimately failed utopian socialist ideal.

    But I’m sure those left-wing ideals will remain very safely hidden away until after the next election. After all, she has a job to do for the Labor Party. A job from the Labor strategic handbook, a job clearly deemed “womens’ work” by factional leaders - it’s all about Labor hanging on to power.

    Just like Kevin Rudd she won’t reveal her true self until after the next election – and if Labor wins, it will be too late for Australia.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  3. #33
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    ... Having a female Prime Minister is not a pretext for turning all political coverage into an edition of Women's Weekly...
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    No, that isn't possible, however if the thread-starter wishes to have a picture of our new Prime Minister included in the opening post it might be possible to accomplish that.
    I started the thread to discuss Gillard as politician, with no intention of any polling/picture, etc.

    It's a pity moderators seem fit to change the post without at least notifying the author (I understand that asking for consultation or, God forbid, obtaining permission, is futile).
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  5. #35
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Igor_Goldenberg
    It's a pity moderators seem fit to change the post without at least notifying the author (I understand that asking for consultation or, God forbid, obtaining permission, is futile).
    Actually I clearly stated that I would not be adding a picture unless you wanted me to.

    As for polls they frequently make threads more interesting and there is no point starting a second thread on the same thing just for the sake of adding the poll. Therefore the mods will add polls to threads wherever we see fit, but that said, we will note that we have done so when this occurs. I do not consider adding a poll to the start of the thread to constitute a change to the opening post.

    Any further discussion on this should be made on the Moderation thread in the Help and Feedback section, or else will be moved there.

  6. #36
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Julia's pic!

    hehe i use BYO and I am happy!
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  7. #37
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of the British Empire Sophie I, via Jono
    What about the “first” female State Premiers? Think Carmen Lawrence in WA, Joan Kirner in Victoria, Kristina Keneally in NSW and Anna Bligh in Qld. All were installed, not elected, all were handed a poisoned chalice, all were used as a last resort, all were part of and inherited dysfunctional, rotten-at-the-core Labor Governments.
    This is quite a complex subject.

    The first Australian female head of a state or territory, Rosemary Follett (ACT), was elected Chief Minister at an election, and then elected again from Opposition after being deposed by the crossbenches mid-term.

    Clare Martin (NT) was a very popular and successful Chief Minister elected in her own right and in her own merit from Opposition until being rolled by her own party over her support for the NT intervention (the party barely survived the subsequent election from a record position).

    So while at State level the only female Labor Premiers have been installed mid-term, at least at Territory level this is not the case.

    Another thing worth noting is that Bligh and Kirner were both natural heirs to the position, being established as Deputy Leader before the power transfer. Likewise Gillard - assuming for a moment that Rudd had to go (which I don't believe), who else could be an effective replacement? There isn't one. Another important aspect is that Gillard has been a leadership contender for a long long time. When Beazley clearly wasn't putting Howard to the sword as much as might have been expected, Gillard almost contested, just deciding that she didn't quite have the numbers to beat Rudd and therefore holding back.

    I also think it's relevant that Bligh was comfortably elected in her own right after being appointed, showing that Labor does not only turn to female Premiers to soften the defeat when its governments are so bad that they have become unelectable. Bligh may have since made Queensland's government such, but evidently it wasn't when she took over.

    I also believe that the Libs might have more stature to talk about installing women as Premier or federal leader for the right reasons when they have actually done it. The present scorecard: Labor has installed one female PM, four female Premiers, two female Chief Ministers. The Libs have only ever had Kate Carnell (ACT), and whether their motives in installing Kerry Chikarovski as NSW leader were any better than Labor's for any of its female leaders is very much open to question.

    It seems that in the Labor Party women are more likely to rise to a position where they will be appointed leader if the leader falls under a bus than in the Libs. That said, I think Kenneally in particular was appointed out of desperation. Shame they didn't appoint her earlier since she seems to be the only thing that government has going for it.

    The only thing worse than Rudd standing for nothing would be Gillard standing for her left-wing principles; bigger spending Government, more incentive-stripping taxes, and an outdated, expensive and ultimately failed utopian socialist ideal.
    I think this is something the Liberals need to get out there and connect to actual policy actions and statements. Everybody knows their man is a hardliner with a lot of rough edges - John Howard without the self-control as one commentator put it - and they have to make the public see that neither leader is really all that mainstream. They have to make it a contest about ability to deliver as a party rather than leadership. I'm not actually sure they will do that.

    Just like Kevin Rudd she won’t reveal her true self until after the next election – and if Labor wins, it will be too late for Australia.
    I think that if the opposition goes too hard on the scare-campaign about Gillard being a lefty and what Gillard might do, they will fail. They need to make the point about her established leftism in particular areas, but voters judge governments on what they have done and oppositions on what they are afraid they might do. So saying that if elected Gillard will turn the place into a socialist enclave isn't going to win a lot of votes.

  8. #38
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Moderation Notice

    The line of discussion about whether Tony Abbott is sexist (and whether other politicians are sexist/racist etc) starting from replies to Ian's #18 has been moved to a new thread entitled "Sexism in Australian politics?"

    This is not a seamless split, and because discussion of the Gillard elevation inevitably includes discussion of whether Gillard's elevation was sexist, whether Gillard has an advantage because Abbott is sexist or seen to be sexist (and whether either of these things is true) and so on. So I have tried to leave posts in this thread where they had a fair bit to do with Gillard.

    If anyone would like their post split so that part of it appears on this thread and part on the other, PM me.

    If anyone would like to discuss this split please do so on the moderation thread in Help and Feedback. Anyone discussing it on this thread will quite likely have their post deleted and will almost certainly be fed to a rabid binturong.

  9. #39
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Can Gillardova change her leftist spots?

    Pragmatic about political convictions
    Kevin Donelly, 18 June 2010

    ...

    That Gillard is a creature of the left is illustrated by her listing Joan Kirner as a close friend and political mentor at the end of her speech. Kirner, one time Victorian Premier, Minister for Education and member of the socialist-left, in a speech to the Fabian society, once famously argued that education has to be coopted as part of the socialist struggle instead of being an "instrument of the capitalist system".

    During the Howard years of government, one of the defining issues involved the culture wars and the battle of ideas between the left and right and it is here, once again, that Gillard reveals her political values and beliefs.

    In a 2003 speech given to the Sydney Institute, Gillard positions herself as a cultural warrior of the left, attacking John Howard's so-called neo-conservative agenda and characterising his views on multiculturalism, refugees, the republic and reconciliation as "fuelled by bile and venom".

    Gillard calls on the left to take up the battle of ideas and to demonstrate that the ALP is the only party that can guarantee an Australia that is "tolerant, outward-looking and egalitarian".

    ...

    In relation to the curriculum, once again copying the conservative Howard Government, Gillard argues for a back to basics approach to literacy and numeracy, that history as a subject has to be centre stage and that schools and teachers must be publicly accountable.

    It's clear that over the years, Gillard has lost her youthful idealism and that the seasoned politician we now see is both pragmatic and willing to compromise long held beliefs.

    Two questions facing the Australian electorate, especially if Gillard leads the ALP and becomes Prime Minister, is whether a leopard can change its spots and whether Gillard's new found conservative rhetoric is more about political opportunism than deeply felt beliefs.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Two questions facing the Australian electorate, especially if Gillard leads the ALP and becomes Prime Minister, is whether a leopard can change its spots and whether Gillard's new found conservative rhetoric is more about political opportunism than deeply felt beliefs.
    I sincerely want the answer to the last one to be negative. However, I strongly suspect it's just political opportunism in the rush to the polls.
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  11. #41
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Looks like JAK is a rangalotionary.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  12. #42
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    Looks like JAK is a rangalotionary.
    rangillardotionary???
    and look at her poll showing!
    Last edited by ER; 30-06-2010 at 12:06 PM.
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  13. #43
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Julia's magic!

    This thread [merged - mod] is dedicated to our PM's actions, achievements and special moments throughout her tenure as our first lady for as long as it lasts. Please be polite in your contributions here!

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  14. #44
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    Last edited by Hobbes; 02-07-2010 at 08:56 PM.
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  15. #45
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    Even rabid leftard atheopath Phillip Adams no longer likes Labor

    Why I quit the Labor Party
    Phillip Adams
    Australian, 30 June 2010

    For 35 years the ALP has protested the Kerr coup – ululating over the vice-regal regime change that deposed Whitlam.

    The Dismissal? Factional thugs now dismiss leaders at their whim. In cowardly conspiracies. First, a rapid succession of NSW premiers. Now a Labor prime minister.

    For once, and only once, I’ll agree with Tony Abbott. Removing a PM from office is a job that properly belongs to the electorate. It’s what elections are for. Now the faceless men are back in the saddle and I’ve had enough.

    ...

    Like Keneally in NSW, Gillard takes power courtesy of some very unpleasant people. Barbie Doll or Boadicea? I’m told that the new NSW premier is another decent human being. I don’t know Julia Gillard, but accept that she was coerced (or seduced) into her challenge. Yet I was uneasy with her cleverly calibrated victory speech. First of all, some victory. Second, she justified the coup by talking of a government losing its way. But it was HER way! As Deputy PM she had more than a casting vote in the Gang of Four. And at least one of the most calamitous decisions was hers. Rudd resisted, she insisted.

    ...
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

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