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  1. #31
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Enough With The Sausages, Assange
    by Ben Pobjie, newmatilda.com 9.12.2010

    ...And that’s how it is with Rudd. We’d thought the fact he was not only the worst prime minister in the history of this or any other nation, but probably the worst person of any kind, was our little secret. Logically, deep down, we probably knew that other people had noticed, what with the way he was constantly flying around the world every week, getting drunk and visiting strip clubs and swearing at the Chinese and generally being a pest; but we could repress these thoughts. We could choose to believe otherwise, and that’s what Wikileaks has done to us: it has taken away our capacity to believe the blatantly untrue for the sake of our own mental wellbeing.

    And this is an important capacity. Our very sanity depends on our being able to dismiss and disbelieve those facts which would make us unhappy and/or insane. This is the bedrock of any number of social institutions. Religion, for example, or the thriving climate change denial industry — imagine if all our opinions on climate change were based on "the facts": our economy would collapse and we would all become extremely depressed at the utter hopelessness of it all. Our only chance of a happy life lies in our ability to totally ignore the inevitability of our species’ destruction. The same goes for our ability to ignore, say, the fact that Julie Bishop is just an election and a tragic triathlon mishap away from becoming Prime Minister, or the fact that Trevor Marmalade continues to find gainful employment. There are some things that not only do we not need to know, we spend a good portion of our psychic energy avoiding the knowing of.
    ...
    We didn’t want to know any of this, but Wikileaks has thrust it upon us. Thanks a lot, Wikileaks. We used to be happy. We used to be content. We used to have confidence in our governments’ commitment to serving the public interest by never revealing just how horrifically they were abusing the public interest...

  2. #32
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    from above

    ...And that’s how it is with Rudd. We’d thought the fact he was not only the worst prime minister in the history of this or any other nation, but probably the worst person of any kind, was our little secret. Logically, deep down, we probably knew that other people had noticed, what with the way he was constantly flying around the world every week, getting drunk and visiting strip clubs and swearing at the Chinese and generally being a pest; but we could repress these thoughts. We could choose to believe otherwise, and that’s what Wikileaks has done to us: it has taken away our capacity to believe the blatantly untrue for the sake of our own mental wellbeing.
    ----------------------------------------------

    I did not repress these thoughts at all, I just did not consider them important and still do not. It is like people discovering that god does not exist and getting a shock and blaming religion, I don't respect that at all, I just think how silly they were to believe in a god in the first place (unless brainwashed at childhood).

    So Rudd was a control freak - I come across such people every day of my life - but in the end I don't let them win.

  3. #33
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    from above

    or the thriving climate change denial industry — imagine if all our opinions on climate change were based on "the facts": our economy would collapse and we would all become extremely depressed at the utter hopelessness of it all. Our only chance of a happy life lies in our ability to totally ignore the inevitability of our species’ destruction
    --------------------------------------------------

    This is not a new phonomena, I have encountered the same attotide for probably every environmental issue in past 40 years, also nuke bombs could be justified coz to get rid of them actually meant doing something and actually thinking - oh, that is like asking them to walk on hot coals.
    No wonder movers and shakers graduate to dictatorial methods.

  4. #34
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    ...And that’s how it is with Rudd. We’d thought the fact he was not only the worst prime minister in the history of this or any other nation, but probably the worst person of any kind, was our little secret. Logically, deep down, we probably knew that other people had noticed, what with the way he was constantly flying around the world every week, getting drunk and visiting strip clubs and swearing at the Chinese and generally being a pest; but we could repress these thoughts. We could choose to believe otherwise, and that’s what Wikileaks has done to us: it has taken away our capacity to believe the blatantly untrue for the sake of our own mental wellbeing.
    ----------------------------------------------

    I did not repress these thoughts at all, I just did not consider them important and still do not. It is like people discovering that god does not exist and getting a shock and blaming religion, I don't respect that at all, I just think how silly they were to believe in a god in the first place (unless brainwashed at childhood).

    So Rudd was a control freak - I come across such people every day of my life - but in the end I don't let them win.
    Don't take it too seriously - it's a satirical piece

  5. #35
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    I am 4 days behind news but keeping all HEralds to salive over

  6. #36
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    I am 4 days behind news but keeping all HEralds to salive over
    Probably a good use for them.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  7. #37
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    I am 4 days behind news but keeping all HEralds to salive over
    Probably a good use for them. The paper is quite absorbent.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    Probably a good use for them. The paper is quite absorbent.
    Same with on-line papers

  9. #39
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanhogg
    Same with on-line papers
    That would depend on the wettability of the individual monitor.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray
    Don't shoot the messenger, award him the Nobel Peace Prize
    EUREKA STREET - Michael Mullins December 06, 2010

    ...Yet this year WikiLeaks has taught us valuable lessons about the suppression and manipulation of information, and how such activities pose a threat to the common good.

    This is how it goes. We accept a particular version of events because it is presented to us by a public figure or organisation we trust. That is how it should be. But public officials need scrutiny to ensure they are acting in the public interest, and not their own or that of a third party.

    It's our right to query the benefit in being kept in the dark, for example, on the secret moves of US and UK officials to undermine the ban on cluster bombs. One of the cables released by WikiLeaks shows that the British Foreign Office suggested a loophole to allow the US to keep cluster bombs on British soil should be kept from Parliament.

    It's likely that the geopolitical interests of the US and the UK were being put ahead of the lives of innocent civilians in war zones.

    Such activities fly in the face of our humanitarian obligations. Yet the suppression of information about them is presented as being 'in the public interest'.

    In Australia, there is an implication that our national interest is being served by Australian Attorney-General Robert McClelland's vigorous investigation into whether WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has broken any laws. Arguably Assange deserves a Nobel Peace Prize nomination for upholding the value of transparency and the internationally protected human right to freedom of information.

    In its inaugural session in 1946, the United Nations General Assembly adopted a resolution — 59(I) — which stated:

    Freedom of information is a fundamental human right and and is the touchstone of all the freedoms to which the United Nations is consecrated. [It] implies the right to gather, transmit and publish news anywhere. It is an essential factor in any serious effort to promote the peace and progress of the world...
    .
    But did Wikileaks actually reveal anything of the substance we didn't know already?
    Did it reveal any crimes or misconduct of the government (either US or AUS)?
    And will it actually lead to a more transparent or more secretive government?
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  11. #41
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    I know it's a really long bow, but proposition is tempting :

    Rudd now publicly contradicts his once trusted former deputy
    "Under law, I'm responsible for the Passports Act, therefore the decisions concerning the withdrawal or otherwise of passports rests exclusively with the foreign minister based on the advice of the relevant agencies," Mr Rudd told The Australian in Cairo.
    He can't win the Labor caucus vote in any brawl against Gillard (or anyone else). If it leads to him losing the position of Foreign Minister, it might lead to him resigning from the parliament and Griffith by-election. Despite big margin Labor is far from certain to win it. Liberal win in Griffith will bring down Gillard government (which Gillard understands and will try to avoid at all cost).
    Will Assange claim causing change in government in this case?
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  12. #42
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Igor_Goldenberg
    He can't win the Labor caucus vote in any brawl against Gillard (or anyone else). If it leads to him losing the position of Foreign Minister, it might lead to him resigning from the parliament and Griffith by-election. Despite big margin Labor is far from certain to win it. Liberal win in Griffith will bring down Gillard government (which Gillard understands and will try to avoid at all cost).
    Will Assange claim causing change in government in this case?
    A few things about this scenario (possible as it is!)

    Firstly if Rudd gets sick of the government he doesn't need to trigger a by-election. He can resign and sit as an independent or he can simply cross the floor. Of course the latter would get him expelled from the party, as Billy Hughes was expelled from the Nationalists after crossing the floor to bring down Bruce's government as payback to Bruce for effectively rolling him years before.

    Secondly a change of one seat might bring down the Gillard government, but it doesn't install the Abbott government right away. It leaves a deadlocked parliament which can sack a Speaker but not easily appoint a new one and which therefore most likely has to go to an election. Which in all likelihood Labor would lose, but you never know until it actually happens.

    Thirdly if rats can go one way they can go the other way, so if Rudd ratted (or resigned and the party lost his seat) then someone like Slipper might counter-rat.

    Fourthly the role of Katter and Crook need to be considered. Would Katter actively support a no-confidence motion or not? Could Crook be bribed into supporting Labor with a truckload of pro-WA pork? We don't really know.

    But I think what we're seeing here is Rudd grabbing an opportunity to symbolically assert himself on an issue to test the waters as to whether the party will (a) risk its own survival in government by trying to shut him down or (b) basically allow him as much freedom to operate as Foreign Minister as he wants.

    I'm guessing that Gillard will make noises but in the end it will be (b).

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Firstly if Rudd gets sick of the government he doesn't need to trigger a by-election. He can resign and sit as an independent or he can simply cross the floor. Of course the latter would get him expelled from the party, as Billy Hughes was expelled from the Nationalists after crossing the floor to bring down Bruce's government as payback to Bruce for effectively rolling him years before.
    I doubt he'd ever cross the floor, it would reflect on him too badly. Resignation and by-election is more acceptable (especially in a notionally safe seat). And Labor win in the by-election is still more likely, but far from certain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Secondly a change of one seat might bring down the Gillard government, but it doesn't install the Abbott government right away. It leaves a deadlocked parliament which can sack a Speaker but not easily appoint a new one and which therefore most likely has to go to an election. Which in all likelihood Labor would lose, but you never know until it actually happens.
    Most likely Windsor and Oakeshott will run to the Libs, they prefer hung parliament to the new election.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Thirdly if rats can go one way they can go the other way, so if Rudd ratted (or resigned and the party lost his seat) then someone like Slipper might counter-rat.
    Slipper crossing the floor is as unlikely as Rudd

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Fourthly the role of Katter and Crook need to be considered. Would Katter actively support a no-confidence motion or not? Could Crook be bribed into supporting Labor with a truckload of pro-WA pork? We don't really know.
    Don't know about Katter, but for Crook supporting Labor will be suicidal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    But I think what we're seeing here is Rudd grabbing an opportunity to symbolically assert himself on an issue to test the waters as to whether the party will (a) risk its own survival in government by trying to shut him down or (b) basically allow him as much freedom to operate as Foreign Minister as he wants.

    I'm guessing that Gillard will make noises but in the end it will be (b).
    Yes, Rudd knows Gillard won't dare to reprimand him, can't miss a chance to slap her.
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  14. #44
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Igor_Goldenberg
    Slipper crossing the floor is as unlikely as Rudd
    Don't know about that one. Slipper is being very seriously heavied by his own side behind the scenes from what I hear.

  15. #45
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Apparently one of the sex assult charges against Assange is that he had consenual sex without a condom - maybe condom was part of the agreement or accidentally came off.

    But maybe Julian was just being a good Catholic and following the Popes edict that they are only allowable for homosexuals.

    Poor guy is certainly in a conundrum - between the Church and civil authorities - give unto Ceasar what is... Give unto God what is....

    And give unto your lady everything in between

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