View Poll Results: Australia to follow Belgium. Ban the burqa

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  • Strongly agree

    2 15.38%
  • Agree

    1 7.69%
  • Don't care either way

    0 0%
  • Disagree

    8 61.54%
  • Strongly disagree

    2 15.38%
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Thread: Ban the Burqa?

  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Ban the Burqa?

    In Europe, both Belgium and France are planning to ban the full face covering Islamic veil. And now some Australian polie is calling for similar laws, albeit so far his seems to be a lone voice.

    So, what do you guys think? Should Australia ban the burqa or other similar full face covering Islamic clothing?

    For a good and thoughtful article on the issue, check out this article on The Daily Bludge.

    AR

  2. #2
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    I voted "disagree", although my vote's really partly an "agree" and partly a "strongly disagree".

    I think it is reasonable to ban the wearing of garments fully obscuring the face (whether it is a burqa or a motorbike helmet) inside stores, banks and public buildings because these garments can make it more difficult to identify and arrest criminals. An example that has come up is that of a male thief who is not in the least bit Islamic chosing the burqa so that his face is not captured on video. This argument is not really covered in the article linked to by AR.

    I don't accept any of the other arguments against it. In particular, the arguments that the burqa should be banned because it represents opposition to western values of freedom are self-defeating. Freedom properly considered should include the freedom to choose to not be liberated, so long as you don't impose that choice on others.

    However, coercing a woman to wear a burqa in public against her will, including by threat of personal and social ostracism, should be a serious crime attracting substantial jail terms.
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  3. #3
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    I agree with Kevin

    The full face covering should be outlawed in public places (dont say burque, say garments hiding a persons identity) but allowed on private property and religious relevent places.

    I was at work and a lady wearing this came to me and handed everything to her very young son to give to me including the money. It was very intimidating.

  4. #4
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CameronD
    I agree with Kevin

    The full face covering should be outlawed in public places (dont say burque, say garments hiding a persons identity) but allowed on private property and religious relevent places.
    I'm not sure you do agree with me because usually a ban on burqas does come in the form of a ban from all public places rather than a ban full-stop. I do not support a ban on the wearing of burqas on the street, in parks etc. Indeed such a ban could have the unpleasant impact of forcing some devout women who wear burqas to avoid going outside in public altogether. What I do support is banning burqas (or other full-face covering) inside buildings where theft is a major concern.
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  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    I'm not sure you do agree with me because usually a ban on burqas does come in the form of a ban from all public places rather than a ban full-stop. I do not support a ban on the wearing of burqas on the street, in parks etc. Indeed such a ban could have the unpleasant impact of forcing some devout women who wear burqas to avoid going outside in public altogether. What I do support is banning burqas (or other full-face covering) inside buildings where theft is a major concern.
    How about public schools where identification of pupils is a major concern? What about private buildings--do banks and petrol stations have a right to insist that faces remain uncovered before entry, without being sued for religious discrimination?

    I voted "disagree" because "ban" is too broad; what people wear on the street or in their own homes is no-one else's business.
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  6. #6
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    How about public schools where identification of pupils is a major concern?
    I support the right of each school, public or private, to make its own decisions about whether the burqa is allowed for pupils on school grounds based on this or other concerns. Even "plain clothes" schools are usually not completely unregulated and there are all kinds of perfectly valid reasons for a range of dress restrictions on them.

    What about private buildings--do banks and petrol stations have a right to insist that faces remain uncovered before entry, without being sued for religious discrimination?
    Absolutely. Already suggested as much. Actually, I support the rights of a private business to ban or not ban in this situation, and to do so without needing to apply for a discrimination exemption.

    I voted "disagree" because "ban" is too broad; what people wear on the street or in their own homes is no-one else's business.
    Agree totally.
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  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    As far as I'm aware school-age girls observing Islamic custom wear the hijab, covering the head but exposing the face. The burqa in schools is not a potential problem

  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    I disagree but...

    I voted disagree since I am generally in favour of the individual's choice with minimal State interference.
    On the other hand, it hasn't yet become clear to me if the burga is dictated by religious dogma or by male chauvinist domination forced upon women.
    In gereral I am very suspicious of the validity as well of the necessity of laws, rules and regulations based upon sex.
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  9. #9
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    A ban would be far too draconian a measure here. I've been living for 17 years in Mt Gravatt in Brisbane, which has a significant Muslim population (and a local mosque). In that time I would not have seen ten women wearing the burqa. Heaps of high-schoolers wearing the hajib.

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    Last edited by Ian Murray; 16-05-2010 at 11:28 AM.

  10. #10
    Account Shoutbox Banned antichrist's Avatar
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    I have seen in Sydney and as stated earlier it would scare the horses. At a lebo cafe a woman in one could not understand Arabic and everyone laughed at her, she was a dye in blue aussie convert.

    It is definitely unaustralian. If they can get away with barring in some Euro countries then maybe we can too. It is medieval - that is enough. I think modern liberal Muslims would apprec also not to be embarrassed. But not a real issue to be concerned about

  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    FFS, Max! Applying the same levels of respect and gravitas when grappling with the issues to all religions? Good-o! Riiiight.
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  12. #12
    Account Shoutbox Banned antichrist's Avatar
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    I suppose if hippy religins can do drugs and nudeity it is anything goes

  13. #13
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    I voted disagree, as it's nobody's business what lady decides to wear.
    The only half plausible reason for the ban is the issue of security, but any business/institution/organisation/building owner must have a right to refuse entry based on the dress code. Removing silly discrimination law is sufficient.
    Everything else is just a puff of hot air.
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  14. #14
    Account Shoutbox Banned antichrist's Avatar
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    But what about if chaps started wearing it for any number of reasons, even to hide from their wives/girlfriends etc. Would you sit opposite a guy wearing one during a chess comp. and not complain?

    If girls can wear pants etc so anything goes.

  15. #15
    Account Shoutbox Banned antichrist's Avatar
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    drop the guy wearing one, if a female wore one whilst your opponent in chess would you object?

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