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  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Greece is the word

    What do our budding economists and political theorists make of the stunning news of the collapse of the Greek economy and the subsequent downturn in all financial markets?
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

    Psephological insight. "Controversial will only lose you votes. Courageous will lose you the election." Sir Humphrey Appleby on Yes Minister.

    Favorite movie line: Girl friend Cathy to Jack Ryan in "Sum of all Fears". "What kind of emergency does an historian have?".

  2. #2
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski
    What do our budding economists and political theorists make of the stunning news of the collapse of the Greek economy and the subsequent downturn in all financial markets?
    People have known that Greece was on the nose for some time. I think the global risk is if other weak European economies and dragged into the quagmire putting the EU firmly back into crisis with dire consequences.

    It was disappointing to see the civil unrest there. People calling for revolution, etc. It is as if the commonly held belief is that there is some magical pot of gold at the end of the rainbow if they revolt.

    On a positive note, things are looking up in Thailand. The prime minister has promised an election later this year which should appease protesters there (once the election date is set and parliament is dissolved).
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Greece is an example of Margaret Thatcher's point: the trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. And the beneficiaries of this public money are protesting against cutbacks which are the result of this running out. I don't know if the Germans will be happy to bail them out—why should they, since they unlike the Greeks lived within their means (more or less). Similarly, why should people who chose a modest home within their means be forced to bail out those who mortgaged over their heads?
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Greece is an example of Margaret Thatcher's point: the trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. And the beneficiaries of this public money are protesting against cutbacks which are the result of this running out. I don't know if the Germans will be happy to bail them out—why should they, since they unlike the Greeks lived within their means (more or less). Similarly, why should people who chose a modest home within their means be forced to bail out those who mortgaged over their heads?
    Unfortunately a lot of it for the Germans has to do with being part of the Euro. It is one of the downsides of the single currency across many countries. If Greece still had their own currency, then that could be heavily de-valued while they are so far in debt. Then this can make Greece attractive to business, tourism etc etc as they would get more for their 'dollar' in Greece than elsewhere, which in turns helps Greece's economy.

    But being part of the Euro means that these opportunities are not open to Greece as they are still having to compete on the same playing field as the other European countries.

    It is in the other countries short term interest, at least, to not have Greece go belly up because it will send the Euro into free fall, affecting a lot other countries who are also debt ridden. But in the medium to long term, what it could do is teach other countries, dont worry, you get into trouble, we will bail you out. So then there is less incentive to run a decent economy.

    So much for the concept of the Euro being a success. If each country still had their own currencies, then Germany would not have to bail them out.

    I do see the historicial irony though of Greece having to be bailed out by Germany

  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Aren't you glad I am not a sharemarket trader!

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski
    ...the subsequent downturn in all financial markets?
    "A typing error by a sharemarket trader may have been responsible for the US equity market crashing by nearly 1000 points overnight.

    CNBC is reporting that a trader entered a "b" for billion instead of an "m" for million in a trade involving US consumer goods giant Procter and Gamble.

    The dive sent shock waves around global financial markets as $US1 trillion ($1.1 trillion), or 9 per cent, evaporated from US share values in minutes. The Dow Jones Industrial Average later recovered some of the losses but still closed more than 3 per cent lower." See http://www.smh.com.au/business/typo-...0507-uhse.html
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

    Psephological insight. "Controversial will only lose you votes. Courageous will lose you the election." Sir Humphrey Appleby on Yes Minister.

    Favorite movie line: Girl friend Cathy to Jack Ryan in "Sum of all Fears". "What kind of emergency does an historian have?".

  6. #6
    Account Shoutbox Banned antichrist's Avatar
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    Well maybe you are all wrong for actual cause of Greek troubles.

    It cheated to get into Euro market and cheated ever since.

    The rest of story was widespread corruption and avoidance of tax by the rich.

    The people are revolting coz ordinary workers etc have to endure very tough measures whereas it was not that got the benefit of all corrupt activities mentioned above.

    It is absolutely nothing to do with socialism etc.

    And considering Marg Thatcher lowering taxes that helps leads to such situations where the govt is broke. Look at many states in USA where taxes are limited by law and they are broke.

  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    And considering Marg Thatcher lowering taxes that helps leads to such situations where the govt is broke. Look at many states in USA where taxes are limited by law and they are broke.
    Come off it. It's the high-taxed Dem-ruled states like CA and NJ that are in the most trouble. Businesses often move from high-tax states to low-tax states, and have deserted states where they are regarded as prey rather than assets. See for example N.J. loses $70B in wealth during five years as residents depart:

    The study – the first on interstate wealth migration in the country — noted the state actually saw an influx of $98 billion in the five years preceding 2004. The exodus of wealth, then, local experts and economists concluded, was a reaction to a series of changes in the state’s tax structure — including increases in the income, sales, property and “millionaire” taxes.
    “This study makes it crystal clear that New Jersey’s tax policies are resulting in a significant decline in the state’s wealth,” said Dennis Bone, chairman of the New Jersey Chamber of Commerce and president of Verizon New Jersey.

    See also this chart ranking business-friendliness, and not surprisingly that the highest unemployment is in the business-unfriendly states.
    Last edited by Capablanca-Fan; 19-05-2010 at 06:21 AM.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  8. #8
    Account Shoutbox Banned antichrist's Avatar
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    In some case this may be so, but they can only do this because other states are irresponsible towards the general population and may have vested interests in keeping tax low. Other states should not be able to lure money away with lower taxation. They are all the one country.



    For example for one point was when Byron Council was ruled by business men they kept the low rates for business but high for residents. The residents have to pay for all the infrastructure for tourists and cop all the inconvenience and only get high rates in return.

    Tax havens are full of crooks earnings and tax avoidance of countries like Australia.

    In a more closed system before globalisation companies could be controlled more.
    From what I heard somewhere Germany still owes millions (or billions) in compensation from WW2.

  9. #9
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    In some case this may be so, but they can only do this because other states are irresponsible towards the general population and may have vested interests in keeping tax low. Other states should not be able to lure money away with lower taxation. They are all the one country.
    But one point of having states united into a single country was that each state should be a "laboratory for democracy". So if people don't like the rules in one state, they can move to another. It's not only businesses that move from high-tax-rate to low-tax-rate states.

    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    Tax havens are full of crooks earnings and tax avoidance of countries like Australia.
    If politicians were not so greedy for taxpayers' money that they can use to fund special interests, tax havens would not be so popular. To put it in terms simple enough for a leftard to understand: many people think that they can spend the money they earned better than a politician or bureaucrat can.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  10. #10
    Account Shoutbox Banned antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    But one point of having states united into a single country was that each state should be a "laboratory for democracy". So if people don't like the rules in one state, they can move to another. It's not only businesses that move from high-tax-rate to low-tax-rate states.


    If politicians were not so greedy for taxpayers' money that they can use to fund special interests, tax havens would not be so popular. To put it in terms simple enough for a leftard to understand: many people think that they can spend the money they earned better than a politician or bureaucrat can.
    A/C
    Absolute rubish your state lab for democracy comment -this has led to higher taxes and wasted resources due to about 7 or 8 different state and territiory governments and institutions etc. The same goes for so many local governments. International corporations can get the minerals out of our country next to nothing and then transfer the profits in ways to avoid tax. They did not create those resources. If the governments dont get the financial benefits from those resources then there is little money for infrastructure etc -and to lift the general masses when necessary. To pay for defence even. Govts need to collect money as well as being responsible with it.

    re point 2, the govt provides all types of care for mentally and physically disabled babies, children and adults. And the stay at home carers will complain (rightfully) that it is never enough. If you don't want govt taxes to provide such would you agree that the family concerned should have the right to smother (or something similar) that person who cannot look after themself. Because the carer also to provider for themselves and maybe other family members. But then your mob are against euthanasia, abortions etc. and other ways that females and old sick can control their body if they see fit. Only God (who doesn't exist) have that right - but you all powerhungry control freaks want to pretend that you are God and inflict your rosaries on women ovaries.

    Only in yesterday's paper a conservative religious anti/science is again taking over school ciricullums(?) to brainwash children into stupidity.

    Otherwise I have nothing against you and we would probably enjoy a good game of chess together.

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