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  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    I just heard on ABC internet radio that Australia is suffering from a shortage of top level researchers in both maths and science. Is that right?

    Why not just extend permanent residency to those currently doing or who have completed Phd's over here (I mean there)?

    AR

  2. #2
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    I just heard on ABC internet radio that Australia is suffering from a shortage of top level researchers in both maths and science. Is that right?
    Called the brain-drain. Been that way for at least 30 years I think.

    Why not just extend permanent residency to those currently doing or who have completed Phd's over here (I mean there)?
    You can do that but it won't necessarily make them stay.
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  3. #3
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    I just heard on ABC internet radio that Australia is suffering from a shortage of top level researchers in both maths and science. Is that right?

    Why not just extend permanent residency to those currently doing or who have completed Phd's over here (I mean there)?
    The lead story in the Australian Higher Ed yesterday was that Australian graduates are going into industry where they can make good money with reasonable certainty, rather than going on to do PhD for a life in Academia where there is less money and security.

    I don't know the figures but certainly a lot of the PhD students I see are international students.

    One issue with some international students is they are on scholarships from their local government which requires them to return to their home country to work for some period (say 10 years) after completion of the PhD.

    Some other PhD students are staying here but really - if Australian born students aren't going on to do PhDs in the numbers we need then there is a problem.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  4. #4
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Called the brain-drain. Been that way for at least 30 years I think.
    In the terminology I've heard, the brain drain is more to do with PhD candidates going overseas to do their PhDs or postdocs and staying away.

    The problem as put forward by the Higher Ed was students choosing industry over higher research degrees - which is a different problem. Although it too may have a long history.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  5. #5
    CC International Master TheJoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    The lead story in the Australian Higher Ed yesterday was that Australian graduates are going into industry where they can make good money with reasonable certainty, rather than going on to do PhD for a life in Academia where there is less money and security.
    What are Academics making these days?

  6. #6
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJoker
    What are Academics making these days?
    The starting range for a new academic is around 60-70k/annum.

    I guess that is modest for some industries especially when the PhD qualification takes 7 years of full-time tertiary study.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    The starting range for a new academic is around 60-70k/annum.

    I guess that is modest for some industries especially when the PhD qualification takes 7 years of full-time tertiary study.
    Is it 7? I thought the path was Bachelor (3) > Bachelor with Hon or Masters (1) > PhD (2?).
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  8. #8
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    Is it 7? I thought the path was Bachelor (3) > Bachelor with Hon or Masters (1) > PhD (2?).
    PhD is usually 3 or more. Scholarships are usually 3 years with a possible extension for another 6 months and then the money runs out. So my seven comes from

    3 (bachelor) + 1 (honours) + 3 (PhD) = 7.

    However there is no fixed time to complete a PhD. I've seen reasonably recent data from Australia which shows Education and Business PhD mean completion times are among the quickest at 3.25 years. Science are among the longest at 3.9 years.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  9. #9
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Thanks.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  10. #10
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Or you could take the scenic route and take over a decade, though they're making it harder and harder for others to follow my bad example.
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  11. #11
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Or you could take the scenic route and take over a decade, though they're making it harder and harder for others to follow my bad example.
    Yes I believe this is referred to as a long tail which may skew the mean time metric.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  12. #12
    CC FIDE Master littlesprout85's Avatar
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    KB's Gotz An Long Tail :S That explains alot

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    Just trying to stay Positive in this New Bizarro World -Sprout85

  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Good one sprouty!

    Quote Originally Posted by littlesprout85
    KB's Gotz An Long Tail :S That explains alot

    -Sprout85
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

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  14. #14
    CC International Master TheJoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    The starting range for a new academic is around 60-70k/annum.

    I guess that is modest for some industries especially when the PhD qualification takes 7 years of full-time tertiary study.
    Now for real tough question... Why if researchers are in such high demand is the pay so low? Is it that academics and universities are lousy at commercialising their capabilities? Or is there some other reason?

  15. #15
    CC Grandmaster Spiny Norman's Avatar
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    Is this the right moment to post: Those that can, do; those that can't, teach; those that can't teach, teach the teachers?
    “As you perhaps know, I haven't always been a Christian. I didn't go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don't recommend Christianity.” -- C.S.Lewis

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