Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    CC Rookie
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1

    Playing taking back move when opponent is not around

    A hypothetical question that someone asked - what if a player (say white) played a move but since his opponent is not around (gone to the bathroom), the white player decided to take back his move and played a different move.
    1 - Arbiter did not see the event but, the opponent sitting on the nex board saw it. Does he/she report the incident to the arbiter or remain quiet i.e. not my game
    2 - The arbiter came to know about it, after the game had concluded (again, the witness was the player on the next board). Does the arbiter need to take any action? What would the action be? Penalized the player?
    3 - What if the player who took back the move lost the game? Would kind of action can be taken? What if he won the game? Reverse the score? If it was a crucial move that decides the game, what happens then?
    What is your take on this situation?

  2. #2
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    40,358
    Quote Originally Posted by terry_n
    1 - Arbiter did not see the event but, the opponent sitting on the nex board saw it. Does he/she report the incident to the arbiter or remain quiet i.e. not my game
    There is no compulsion to report but there is nothing wrong with doing so. I think the witness should report the incident as this sort of thing is cheating and needs to be stamped out. However if the only witness is a player with a vested interest (say a rival for the tournament lead) then the arbiter must treat the report with caution and might well not accept it as proof.

    2 - The arbiter came to know about it, after the game had concluded (again, the witness was the player on the next board). Does the arbiter need to take any action? What would the action be? Penalized the player?
    Under article 13.4 the arbiter appears to have the power to alter the score, even after the game has been completed, in either direction. The arbiter also has the power to expel the offender from the tournament.

    I would be a little reluctant to impose any of these steps on the basis of a statement made by a single witness after the game had concluded, if there was no other evidence. If the incident is not reported at the time but only hours later then it is possible the report may be confused and the reporter's understanding of what actually happened may somehow be incorrect.

    It is much better to have such incidents reported and investigated the instant they occur. An advantage here is that more evidence may be available, for instance if the player pressed the clock after making (and taking back) the move, then pressed the clock back, this may be indicated by the move counter.

    3 - What if the player who took back the move lost the game? Would kind of action can be taken? What if he won the game? Reverse the score? If it was a crucial move that decides the game, what happens then?
    What is your take on this situation?
    See above.

    Note also that if an incident of this type is considered proven, the tournament committee or the local/national association might take further action.
    Moderation Requests: All requests for, comments about, or questions about moderation of any kind including thread changes must be posted in the Help and Feedback section and not on the thread in question. (Or by private message for routine changes or sensitive matters.)

    ACF Newsletter Information - All Australian players and administrators should subscribe and check each issue for relevant notices

    My psephology/politics site (token chess references only) : http://kevinbonham.blogspot.com.au/ Politics twitter feed https://twitter.com/kevinbonham

  3. #3
    Account Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    928
    Quote Originally Posted by terry_n
    A hypothetical question that someone asked - what if a player (say white) played a move but since his opponent is not around (gone to the bathroom), the white player decided to take back his move and played a different move.
    1 - Arbiter did not see the event but, the opponent sitting on the nex board saw it. Does he/she report the incident to the arbiter or remain quiet i.e. not my game
    2 - The arbiter came to know about it, after the game had concluded (again, the witness was the player on the next board). Does the arbiter need to take any action? What would the action be? Penalized the player?
    3 - What if the player who took back the move lost the game? Would kind of action can be taken? What if he won the game? Reverse the score? If it was a crucial move that decides the game, what happens then?
    What is your take on this situation?
    I think a single witness report from a player busy playing a game would not be acceptable. Maybe the player made her move instantly, then returned to the restroom without the observer noticing, or maybe the player realised theyd made an illegal move (or touched a piece then put it back to decide where to put it) or hadnt move but adjusted a piece, or maybe the observer was wrong.

    If proven then i think all cheating should be 2 years minumin and removed from the event.

  4. #4
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    40,358
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronD
    If proven then i think all cheating should be 2 years minumin and removed from the event.
    As it happens that is what was applied to a computer-cheat last year, but that computer-cheat was a junior player.

    Had he been an adult it would have been a much longer ban.
    Moderation Requests: All requests for, comments about, or questions about moderation of any kind including thread changes must be posted in the Help and Feedback section and not on the thread in question. (Or by private message for routine changes or sensitive matters.)

    ACF Newsletter Information - All Australian players and administrators should subscribe and check each issue for relevant notices

    My psephology/politics site (token chess references only) : http://kevinbonham.blogspot.com.au/ Politics twitter feed https://twitter.com/kevinbonham

  5. #5
    CC Candidate Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    401

    Smile happened at the mcc

    In a mcc tourney some years ago i saw a game in which a player who was playing white, was sitting at a board with his opponent's clock running and the opponent absent.

    white had a pawn on a4 and no pawn on a2 (he hadn't played b3xa4)

    Some time later i saw the game again with both players present.
    Whites pawn was back on a2.

    Clearly, he had previously played a4, pressed the clock, then retracted the move, all while the opponent was absent. Not only had he taken a move back,
    he had stolen the opponent's time.

    This happened in the days when the mcc never had an arbiter present.

    Fortunately the guy who played white shortly dropped out of chess.

  6. #6
    CC International Master Bereaved's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,222
    Hi everyone,

    My tale of such an adventure starts in the first diagram,



    FEN Viewer


    Owing to a fairly sketchy opening and some luck, I reached this position, where the white queen is skewered against the Bb3. I got up to stretch my legs, and walk around, talked to some friends, and returned to find not the expected position below




    FEN Viewer



    But instead the next diagram.


    FEN Viewer



    My opponent was sitting at the board quite calmly, with absolutely no tell tale signs of guilt. This was a tournament game, and I could have got the arbiter, but I instead leaned across the board, and picking up the a2 pawn loudly said "j'adoube", and pushed it back to b2.

    At this my opponent blustered, not about 'what are you doing?' but instead 'I bumped it and didn't know where it was' which was extremely unlikely as he was an experienced player with about a 1700 rating I think.

    The last diagram will show the games end


    FEN Viewer


    So I did win in the end, but I had earlier after the a2-b2 incident made some sloppy moves and allowed my rook to be trapped on the queenside, albeit at the cost of a second minor piece. The point was the rook was able to escape, and I got confused and failed to do so, primarily owing to the incident.

    Take care and God Bless, Macavity
    It is not a matter of God being on your side; it is a matter of being on God's side that matters

  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Subtropical Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    11,245
    Quote Originally Posted by macavity
    Hi everyone,

    My tale of such an adventure starts in the first diagram...
    How long ago and where did this gem occur, mac?
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  8. #8
    CC International Master Bereaved's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Underpants
    How long ago and where did this gem occur, mac?
    A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.....



    Take care and God Bless, Macavity

    PS delighted to have figured out the FEN viewer finally!!
    It is not a matter of God being on your side; it is a matter of being on God's side that matters

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 25-01-2012, 09:56 PM
  2. King capture bug in made/completed provisions?
    By Kevin Bonham in forum Arbiters' Corner
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 29-12-2006, 01:10 AM
  3. New Laws of Chess as of 1st July 2005
    By Bill Gletsos in forum Arbiters' Corner
    Replies: 129
    Last Post: 02-11-2005, 09:45 PM
  4. Richard J vs b1_ - Some tips for you Richard.
    By b1_ in forum Correspondence Matches
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 18-09-2005, 11:42 PM
  5. Live at the BBQ (slow loading)
    By jeffrei in forum Games and Analysis
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 18-09-2004, 07:00 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •