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  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Does KRudd really need to add so much to CO2 emissions by leading a team of 114 to Copenhagen:

    Australia
    H.E. Mr. Kevin Michael Rudd
    Prime Minister
    H.E. Ms. Penelope Wong
    Minister, Climate Change and Water
    Office of the Minister for Climate Change
    and Water
    H.E. Ms. Louise Helen Hand
    Ambassador for Climate Change
    Department of Climate Change
    Mr. David Fredericks
    Deputy Chief of Staff
    Department of the Prime Minister and
    Cabinet
    Mr. Philip Green Oam
    Senior Policy Adviser, Foreign Affairs
    Department of the Prime Minister and
    Cabinet
    Mr. Andrew Charlton
    Senior Adviser
    Department of the Prime Minister and
    Cabinet
    Mr. Lachlan Harris
    Senior Press Secretary
    Prime Minister’s Office
    Office of Prime Minister
    Mr. Scott Dewar
    Senior Adviser
    Office of Prime Minister
    Ms. Clare Penrose
    Adviser
    Office of Prime Minister
    Ms. Fiona Sugden
    Media Adviser
    Office of Prime Minister
    Ms. Lisa French
    Office of the Prime Minister
    Office of Prime Minister
    Mr. Jeremy Hilman
    Adviser
    Office of Prime Minister
    Ms. Tarah Barzanji
    Adviser
    Office of Prime Minister
    Mr. Kate Shaw
    Executive Secretary
    Office of Prime Minister
    Ms. Gaile Barnes
    Executive Assistant
    Office of Prime Minister
    Ms. Gordon de Brouwer
    Deputy Secretary
    Prime Minister and Cabinet
    Mr. Patrick Suckling
    First Assistant Secretary, International
    Division
    Prime Minister and Cabinet
    Ms. Rebecca Christie
    Prime Minister’s Office
    Mr. Michael Jones
    Official Photographer
    Prime Minister and Cabinet
    Mr. Stephan Rudzki
    Mr. David Bell
    Federal Agent
    Australian Federal Police
    Ms. Kym Baillie
    Australian Federal Police
    Mr. David Champion
    Australian Federal Police
    - 7 -
    Australia (continued)
    Mr. Matt Jebb
    Federal Agent
    Australian Federal Police
    Mr. Craig Kendall
    Federal Agent
    Australian Federal Police
    Mr. Ian Lane
    Squadron Leader Staff, Officer VIP
    Operations
    Mr. John Olenich
    Media Adviser / Adviser to Minister
    Wong
    Office of the Minister for Climate Change
    and Water
    Ms. Kristina Hickey
    Adviser to Minister Wong
    Office of the Minister for Climate Change
    and Water
    Mr. Martin Parkinson
    Secretary
    Department of Climate Change
    Mr. Howard Bamsey
    Special Envoy for Climate Change
    Department of Climate Change
    Mr. Robert Owen-Jones
    Assistant Secretary, International Division
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Clare Walsh
    Assistant Secretary, International Division
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Jenny Elizabeth Wilkinson
    Policy Advisor
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Elizabeth Mary Peak
    Principal Legal Adviser, International
    Climate Law
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Kristin Tilley
    Director, Multilateral Negotiations
    International Division
    Department of Climate Change
    Mr. Andrew Ure
    Acting Director, Multilateral Negotiations
    International Division
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Annemarie Watt
    Director, Land Sector Negotiations
    International Division
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Kushla Munro
    Director, International Forest Carbon
    Section
    International Division
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Kathleen Annette Rowley
    Director, Strategic and Technical Analysis
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Anitra Cowan
    Assistant Director, Multilateral
    Negotiations
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Sally Truong
    Assisting Director, Multilateral
    Negotiations
    International Division
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Jane Wilkinson
    Assistant Director
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Tracey Mackay
    Assistant Director
    International Division
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Laura Brown
    Assistant Director, Multilateral
    Negotiations
    International Division
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Tracey-Anne Leahey
    Delegation Manager
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Nicola Loffler
    Senior Legal Adviser, International
    Climate Law
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Tamara Curll
    Legal Adviser, International Climate Law
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Jessica Allen
    Legal Support Officer
    Department of Climate Change
    Mr. Sanjiva de Silva
    Legal Adviser, International Climate Law
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Gaia Puleston
    Political Adviser
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Penelope Jane Morton
    Policy Adviser, Multilateral Negotiations
    (UNFCCC)
    International Division
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Claire Elizabeth Watt
    Policy Advisor
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Amanda Walker
    Policy Officer, Multilateral Negotiations
    Department of Climate Change
    Mr. Alan David Lee
    Policy Adviser, Land Sector Negotiations
    Department of Climate Change
    Ms. Erika Kate Oord
    Australian Stakeholder Manager
    Department of Climate Change
    Mr. Jahda Kirian Swanborough
    Communications Manager
    Ministerial Communication
    Department of Climate Change
    H.E. Mr. Sharyn Minahan
    Ambassador
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Ms. Julia Feeney
    Director, Climate Change and
    Environment
    Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
    Mr. Chester Geoffrey Cunningham
    Second Secretary
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Germany
    Ms. Rachael Virginia Cooper
    Executive Officer, Climate Change and
    Environment
    Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
    Ms. Rachael Grivas
    Executive Officer, Environment Branc
    Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
    Moya Elyn Collett
    Desk officer, Climate Change and
    Environment Section
    Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
    Mr. Rob Law
    Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
    Mr. Robin Davies
    Assistant Director General, Sustainable
    Development Group
    Australian Agency for International
    Development
    Ms. Deborah Fulton
    Director, Policy and Global Environment
    Australian Agency for International
    Development
    - 8 -
    Australia (continued)
    Ms. Katherine Renee Ann Vaughn
    Policy Advisor, Policy and Global
    Environment
    Australian Agency for International
    Development
    Mr. Brian Dawson
    Policy Adviser
    Australian Agency for International
    Development
    Mr. Andrew Leigh Clarke
    Deputy Secretary
    Department of Resources Development,
    Western Australia
    Mr. Bruce Wilson
    General Manager, Environment Energy
    and Environment Division
    Department of Resources Development,
    Western Australia
    Ms. Jill McCarthy
    Policy Adviser
    Department of Resources, Energy and
    Tourism
    Mr. Simon French
    Policy Adviser
    Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and
    Forestry
    Mr. Ian Michael Ruscoe
    Policy Adviser
    Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and
    Forestry
    Mr. David Walland
    Acting Superintendent, National Climate
    Centre
    Bureau of Meteorology
    Mr. Damien Dunn
    Senior Policy Adviser
    The Australian Treasury
    Ms. Helen Hawka Fuhrman
    Policy Officer, Renewable Energy Policy
    and Partnerships
    Mr. Scott Vivian Davenport
    Chief Economics
    NSW Department of Industry and
    Investment
    Mr. Graham Julian Levitt
    Policy Manager, Climate Change
    NSW Department of Industry and
    Investment
    Ms. Kate Jennifer Jones
    Minister, Climate Change and
    Sustainability
    Queensland Government
    Mr. Michael William Dart
    Principal Policy Advisor
    Office of the Hon. Kate Jones MP
    Queensland Government
    Mr. Matthew Anthony Jamie Skoien
    Senior Director, Office of Climate Change
    Queensland Government
    Mr. Michael David Rann
    Premier, South Australia
    Department of Premier and Cabinet,
    Southern Australia
    Ms. Suzanne Kay Harter
    Adviser
    Department of Premier and Cabinet,
    Southern Australia
    Mr. Paul David Flanagan
    Manager, Communications
    Government of South Australia
    Mr. Timothy William O’Loughlin
    Deputy Chief Executive, Sustainability
    and Workforce Management
    Department of Premier and Cabinet
    South Australian Government
    Ms. Nyla Sarwar
    M.Sc student
    Linacre College
    University of Oxford
    Mr. Gavin Jennings
    Minister, Environment and Climate
    Change and Innovation, Victorian
    Government
    Ms. Sarah Broadbent
    Sustainability Adviser
    Ms. Rebecca Falkingham
    Senior Adviser
    Victoria Government/Office of Climate
    Change
    Mr. Simon Camroux
    Policy Adviser
    Energy Supply Association of Australia
    Limited
    Mr. Geoff Lake
    Adviser
    Australian Local Government Association
    Sridhar Ayyalaraju
    Post Visit Controller
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Mr. Tegan Brink
    Deputy Visit Controller and Security
    Liaison Officer
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Ms. Melissa Eu Suan Goh
    Transport Liaison Officer and Consul
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Ms. Lauren Henschke
    Support Staff
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Ms. Maree Fay
    Accommodation Liaison Officer
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Ms. Patricia McKinnon
    Communications Officer
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Eugene Olim
    Paasport / Baggage Liaison Officer
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Ms. Belinda Lee Adams
    Ms. Jacqui Ashworth
    Media Liaison Officer
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Ms. Patricia Smith
    Media Liaison Officer
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Mr. Martin Bo Jensen
    Research and Public Diplomatic Officer
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Mr. Mauro Kolobaric
    Consular Support
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Ms. Susan Flanagan
    Consular Support
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Mr. Stephen Kanaridis
    IT Support Officer
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    - 9 -
    Australia (continued)
    Mr. George Reid
    Support Staff
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Ms. Ashley Wright
    Support Staff
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Ms. Jodie Littlewood
    Support Staff
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Mr. Thomas Millhouse
    Support Staff
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Mr. Timothy Whittley
    Support Staff Driver
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Ms. Julia Thomson
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Mr. Donald Frater
    Chief of Staff to Minister Wong
    Office of the Minister for Climate Change
    and Water
    Ms. Jacqui Smith
    Media Liaison
    DFAT
    Diplomatic Mission of Australia to
    Denmark
    Mr. Greg French
    Senior Legal Advisor, Environment
    Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
    Mr. Jeremy Hillman
    Advisor
    PMO
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Does KRudd really need to add so much to CO2 emissions by leading a team of 114 to Copenhagen:
    Hey, they worked so hard for the last two years, they deserve a break and a nice overseas trip.
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  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Would it be fair to say that the people listed as "Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark " are not making the trip for the conference as they are already there? 21 at a quick count.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    Would it be fair to say that the people listed as "Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark " are not making the trip for the conference as they are already there? 21 at a quick count.
    Even taking that into account, our delegation is bigger than the UK's. But it's not such a great junket for Britons to hop over the Channel.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Charles Krauthammer on the New Socialism of the Watermelons (green on the outside, red on the inside):

    On the day Copenhagen opened, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency claimed jurisdiction over the regulation of carbon emissions by declaring them an “endangerment” to human health.

    Since we operate an overwhelmingly carbon-based economy, the EPA will be regulating practically everything. No institution that emits more than 250 tons of CO2 a year will fall outside EPA control. This means more than a million building complexes, hospitals, plants, schools, businesses and similar enterprises. (The EPA proposes regulating emissions only above 25,000 tons, but it has no such authority.) Not since the creation of the Internal Revenue Service has a federal agency been given more intrusive power over every aspect of economic life.

    This naked assertion of vast executive power in the name of the environment is the perfect fulfillment of the prediction of Czech President (and economist) Vaclav Klaus that environmentalism is becoming the new socialism, i.e., the totemic ideal in the name of which government seizes the commanding heights of the economy and society.

    Socialism having failed so spectacularly, the left was adrift until it struck upon a brilliant gambit: metamorphosis from red to green. The cultural elites went straight from the memorial service for socialism to the altar of the environment. The objective is the same: highly centralized power given to the best and the brightest, the new class of experts, managers and technocrats…

    Forget for a moment the economic effects of severe carbon chastity. There’s the matter of constitutional decency. If you want to revolutionize society—as will drastic carbon regulation and taxation in an energy economy that is 85 percent carbon-based—you do it through Congress reflecting popular will. Not by administrative fiat of EPA bureaucrats.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Even taking that into account, our delegation is bigger than the UK's. But it's not such a great junket for Britons to hop over the Channel.
    Oh yes I agree it seems excessive, I just think it's best not to exaggerate (because the truth is damning enough).
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    “I cannot give any scientist of any age better advice than this: the intensity of the conviction that a hypothesis is true has no bearing on whether it is true or not. The importance of the strength of our conviction is only to provide a proportionally strong incentive to find out if the hypothesis will stand up to critical examination.”—Sir Peter Medawar, Advice to a Young Scientist, Harper and Row Publishers, 1979.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  8. #8
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    Ms. Nyla Sarwar
    M.Sc student
    Linacre College
    University of Oxford

    I wonder how this person got onto the delegation, not part of any government although listed under the SA representatives.
    Scott

  9. #9
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    “I cannot give any scientist of any age better advice than this: the intensity of the conviction that a hypothesis is true has no bearing on whether it is true or not. The importance of the strength of our conviction is only to provide a proportionally strong incentive to find out if the hypothesis will stand up to critical examination.”—Sir Peter Medawar, Advice to a Young Scientist, Harper and Row Publishers, 1979.
    Excellent advice but I wonder how intensely convinced Medawar was of its truth and whether it provided him with a proportionally strong incentive to find out if it stood up to critical examination.

    No bearing whatsoever? That's a big call ...
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  10. #10
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Strong economies and free markets are much better for the environment

    Climate conferees should do nothing
    Ben Lieberman
    Washington Post, 17 Dec 09

    ...

    The United States never ratified Kyoto, for good reason. Its provisions would have cost American consumers trillions, while having virtually no impact on world temperatures. In much the same way, a new global warming treaty would be all economic pain and little environmental gain for the American people.

    Our government would be wise to adhere to the Senate's 1997 Byrd–Hagel Resolution. It passed 95-0 and made it clear that our government wouldn't enter into any global warming treaty that harmed the American economy or gave major developing nations a free pass on emissions. Indeed, America's strong environmental record demonstrates that free markets, rather than binding treaties, provide the more sensible way to address global warming.

    ...

    Emerging nations' emissions have exceeded the developed world's emissions since 2005. They are projected to continue increasing seven times faster than those of the developed world.

    China is of particular concern. It now out-emits the U.S., and its emissions growth through 2030 is projected to be nine times higher than ours. Yet China insists on keeping its exemption from emissions reduction obligations, regardless of what America does.

    In effect, any reduction in emissions from the U.S. and other developed nations would be more than offset by growing emissions from developing nations. And as constraints on developed nations shift more and more economic activity to exempted nations, the net increase in emissions will only expand.

    ...

    However large or small a problem global warming proves to be, a growing body of evidence shows that free markets — not binding treaties — are the best way to deal with it. According to U.N. data, the U.S. reduced greenhouse gas emissions by 3 percent from 2000 to 2006. Of all the European and other developed nations that committed to reducing emissions under Kyoto, only France did better than that. That's right: America did better as a Kyoto treaty outsider than most treaty insiders.

    There are reasons that explain this seemingly counterintuitive result. A sensible approach to global warming has to center on technological innovation, and in particular ways to produce and use energy more efficiently and with fewer emissions.

    Innovation is the solution, and we know from long experience that free economies innovate better than centrally planned ones. However, a treaty with binding targets introduces a significant element of central planning and stifles innovation.

    We also know that strong economies innovate better than weak ones, but these costly energy controls weaken economies. Perhaps most importantly, stable economies innovate better than unstable ones, especially for something like energy for which the investments often run into the billions of dollars and the payoffs play out over decades. But the experience with Kyoto is that its provisions add a significant element of instability.

    ...
    Last edited by Capablanca-Fan; 19-12-2009 at 01:24 PM.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    THE failure of world leaders to strike a legally binding deal to cut greenhouse gas emissions ‘’entirely vindicates’’ the Opposition’s decision to reject the Government’s emissions trading scheme, Tony Abbott claimed yesterday.

    But this is the real reason KRudd wanted an ETS before Copenhagen:
    Less chance to be the UN Secretary General now, poor fellow.

    But Talkbull prefers to trust the young, and KRudd even gets his information from seven-year-olds.

    Also, Ian Plimer pointed out the silliness and hypocrisy of the conference:

    ''To talk about 2 degrees is viewing the planet like the thermostat on the central heating,'' Professor Plimer said.

    ''Climate is extraordinarily complicated and we humans are blessed with such an air of arrogance and ego, we actually think we can change climate.''

    The real game should be improving conditions for the world's poor. ''The amount of money spent on this Copenhagen conference would have been enough to provide electricity and water for a small African nation,'' he said.
    Last edited by Capablanca-Fan; 20-12-2009 at 02:01 PM.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    LOL, Fidel Castro is the latest greenstapo hypocrite, even having the nerve to criticize “brutal methods to crush resistance” and “those entitled to express their opinions”? This mass-murdering despot, much beloved by certain churchian leftards, was also reported as saying that we have an obligation to defend the rights of Mother Earth against the model of capitalist development, the culture of life against the culture of death. Nice follow-up to the cheering of the Copenfloppen delegates of the Despot of Venezuela for his tirades against capitalism, the economic system responsible for the cleanest environments.
    Last edited by Capablanca-Fan; 22-12-2009 at 11:28 PM.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Couldn't help watch this youtube without being reminded of this thread

    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  14. #14
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    "Green" technologies destroy environment

    Some of the minerals crucial to green technologies are extracted in China using methods that inflict serious damage on the local environment. China dominates global rare earth production partly because of its willingness until now to tolerate highly polluting, low-cost mining.

    ...

    China produces over 99 percent of dysprosium and terbium and 95 percent of neodymium. These are vital to many green energy technologies, including high-strength, lightweight magnets used in wind turbines, as well as military applications.

    To get at the materials, powerful acid is pumped down bore holes. There it dissolves some of the rare earths, and the slurry is then pumped into leaky artificial ponds with earthen dams, according to mining specialists.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

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