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  1. #61
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    OK, how about uncommitted funds then?

    I think that's what Matty is after: to commit the funds. To something - useful. Maybe I agree to this, but I prefer the conservative approach.

    AR

  2. #62
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    OK, how about uncommitted funds then?

    I think that's what Matty is after: to commit the funds. To something - useful. Maybe I agree to this, but I prefer the conservative approach.

    AR
    From Matt's post 29 in this thread he thinks it should be going towards a chess centre.
    Unfortunately Matt is apparently in favour of any chess centre proposal irrespective of the merits one way or the other.
    He would of course not know any of the actual details because he has not discussed it with Peter Parr.

    Clearly for a chess centre to be successful it needs the support of both the NSWCA and the NSWJCL.

    Also it should be noted that if there had never been any accumulated profits there would be no possability of the NSWCA ever purchasing premises.

    If NSW chess was to recive a bequest that nearly but not quite allowed for the purchase of premises it would indeed be a terrible shame if the remaining funds needed were not available due to the squandering of accumulated profits and a complete indicment of those who chose to follow such a path.

  3. #63
    CC International Master Cat's Avatar
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    It's scandalous really, while chess rots the Emperor plays his fiddle. It's clearly the duty of the fund-holders to use the money to actively in the promotion of chess and to be so errant in their duties they have no defence.

    It would appear to me from the posts I've seen on the BB there is no one in the chess world with the appropriate acumen to properly dispose of the funds. Matt's right that a proper plan of operations needs to be developed and it needs to be done professionally.

    There is so much that could be done with that kind of funding but it could also be frizzled away on mad-cap schemes. Canvassing the BB inhabitants is not necessarily the best approach. One also has to be wary as to where the professional advice is obtained, needless to say.

    Bill, bury the hachet, be generous and everyone stands to win!
    Power comes from the barrel of a gun.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos


    Also it should be noted that if there had never been any accumulated profits there would be no possibility of the NSWCA ever purchasing premises.

    If NSW chess was to recive a bequest that nearly but not quite allowed for the purchase of premises it would indeed be a terrible shame if the remaining funds needed were not available due to the squandering of accumulated profits and a complete indicment of those who chose to follow such a path.
    Bill

    I will be nominating these two paragraphs of yours as the weakest argument ever put in a post.

    regards
    starter

  5. #65
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starter
    Bill

    I will be nominating these two paragraphs of yours as the weakest argument ever put in a post.

    regards
    starter
    I'd be nominating your response.

  6. #66
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_Richards
    It's scandalous really, while chess rots the Emperor plays his fiddle. It's clearly the duty of the fund-holders to use the money to actively in the promotion of chess and to be so errant in their duties they have no defence.
    That clearly isnt the case at all.
    The accummulated funds have long been considered for a particular purpose.

    Quote Originally Posted by David_Richards
    It would appear to me from the posts I've seen on the BB there is no one in the chess world with the appropriate acumen to properly dispose of the funds. Matt's right that a proper plan of operations needs to be developed and it needs to be done professionally.
    A sydney chess centre has long been the desire of many NSWCA members.
    Why should the money accumulated be diverted from that goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by David_Richards
    There is so much that could be done with that kind of funding but it could also be frizzled away on mad-cap schemes. Canvassing the BB inhabitants is not necessarily the best approach. One also has to be wary as to where the professional advice is obtained, needless to say.
    Trust me the NSWCA Council wont be listening to the denizens of the BB.

    Quote Originally Posted by David_Richards
    Bill, bury the hachet, be generous and everyone stands to win!
    It has nothing to do with burying any hacket.
    It has to do with fulfilling a role.

  7. #67
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    Trust me the NSWCA Council wont be listening to the denizens of the BB.
    Isn't that a bit supercilious? I would hope there'd be more flexibility than that.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  8. #68
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    ps...Do you know the parable of the three talents?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos

    Also it should be noted that if there had never been any accumulated profits there would be no possibility of the NSWCA ever purchasing premises.

    If NSW chess was to recive a bequest that nearly but not quite allowed for the purchase of premises it would indeed be a terrible shame if the remaining funds needed were not available due to the squandering of accumulated profits and a complete indicment of those who chose to follow such a path.
    OK Bill. I will have another try at responding to your argument.
    Are you suggesting that you are holding the $80,000 in reserve
    JUST IN CASE there is
    i) a bequest of an amount unknown at this point,
    ii) there is a suitable property of cost unknown at this point
    and
    iii) the $80,000 just makes up the difference between
    the unknowns in i) and ii).
    If my paraphrasing is what you meant, then your argument for the reserving of $80,000 is not believable.

    regards
    starter

  9. #69
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starter
    OK Bill. I will have another try at responding to your argument.
    Are you suggesting that you are holding the $80,000 in reserve
    JUST IN CASE there is
    i) a bequest of an amount unknown at this point,
    ii) there is a suitable property of cost unknown at this point
    and
    iii) the $80,000 just makes up the difference between
    the unknowns in i) and ii).
    If my paraphrasing is what you meant, then your argument for the reserving of $80,000 is not believable.

    regards
    starter
    I dont think I was suggesting all of the money might be needed just some of it. However all that is mute if there were no money at all.

    As for not being believable I understand the MCC received a bequest that allowed it to purchase its current premises.

    I had suggested that the money was most likely to be used for leasing premises rather than purchase.
    However if accumulated profits had never existed then the prospect of even leasing would not be possible.

  10. #70
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Dickinson
    Isn't that a bit supercilious? I would hope there'd be more flexibility than that.
    With regards to its finances the views of those from other states or non NSWCA members is immaterial.
    As for the small number of NSW members who actually post here it can easily be argued that there are members holding opposing views. e.g. Peter Parr's views would counterbalance Brian Jones.

  11. #71
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    Every year a NSWCA councillor, Norm, conducts the thankless and unpleasant job of collecting annual fees - around $8k. The morjority of this is saved. Over the last decade, due to these savings being invested in term deposits and a recent $10k donatation, the NSWCA has $80k. The undebated understanding is that this money wouls be used to create a chess centre.

    Personally, I think that a centrally located chess centre is a fine goal. There is no agreement as to which centre; city, geogaphical, population demographic, or chess population.

    Peter Parr has put up proposals that place the proposed chess centre in a building that is 5 minutes from Central Station 5 minutes from the CBD, 5 minutes from a red light district, in fact it is 5 minutes from everywhere. The NSWCA has rejected these proposals for one single reason. The NSWJCL doesn't like the area and says that it will not co-operate with the NSWCA and hold all its events at the proposed site. The NSWJCL has that the area is sleezy/dangerous and juniors ought not be there.

    The problem with the NSWJCL's position is that it is hypocritical. Currently, its event location is a five minute walk from the station, down a deserted street along parkland. As any crime watch group, copper, women's safty organization will tell you, deserted areas are more "dangerous" than crouded city streets.

    I say forget the NSWJCL for now. NSWCA go it alone. We can poach all the better and more senior junior players from the NSWJCL by offering them super generous discounts for the first year and running a NSW Junior Masters series on a clashing date. Surely the NSWJCL would then, pull its head in and capitulate on their idiotic stance.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    I dont think I was suggesting all of the money might be needed just some of it. However all that is mute if there were no money at all.
    Bill. I am shocked you did mean what I paraphrased. I repeat; I think it is the worst reason for holding onto reserves that I have ever heard.

    As for not being believable I understand the MCC received a bequest that allowed it to purchase its current premises.
    Yes, MCC got a bequest. I am not arguing that the bequest is not possible/likely/important. But for you to hold money just on the off-chance the uncertain/un-received/some-time bequest needs a top-up from reserves, is just, well, fanciful.

    I had suggested that the money was most likely to be used for leasing premises rather than purchase.
    This is a different, and near-rational point.
    However if accumulated profits had never existed then the prospect of even leasing would not be possible.
    True, but not what I was criticising about your original post.


    Now, for the third time > Have you read the parable about the three talents?


    starter
    Last edited by ursogr8; 15-08-2004 at 10:53 AM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Sweeney
    Every year a NSWCA councillor, Norm, conducts the thankless and unpleasant job of collecting annual fees - around $8k.

    This is shocking news. Can it be true?
    When I first joined the BB in early 2003, the first thread I can recall debating was the NSW approach of having individual members versus the Victorian approach of having affiliated Clubs. I was assured then that the NSW approach was very manageable and efficient.
    Now, it is revealed (admittedely by a exiled/sacked Councillor) that there is INEFFICIENCY in the structure. NSW has to find a volunteer each and every year to collect fees from many individuals, on all points of the compass, on behalf of the STATE.

    Poor Norm. He is doing a totally unnecessary task. Every year.
    And on top of that, most of the money he dutifully collects gathers mould in the Bank. I think I would be voting for a different system.


    starter
    Last edited by ursogr8; 15-08-2004 at 08:44 AM.

  14. #74
    CC International Master Brian_Jones's Avatar
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    Strathfield in hub of Sydney!

    Matthew, you are not telling the whole story. The NSWJCL's man venue is in Lidcombe, 15 km west of the CBD and relatively close to the Olympic stadium at Homebush. It is easy to park and safe in daylight. Surrey Hills is much more seedy and dangerous even in the day. (The riots are often in Redfern but not in Lidcombe).

    Besides there is already a Chess Centre in Strathfield at Brett Tindall's Sydney Academy of Chess!

  15. #75
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian_Jones
    Matthew, you are not telling the whole story.
    True. However, I was putting a brief summary of my thoughts. Necessarily, bits are left out.

    The NSWJCL's man venue is in Lidcombe, 15 km west of the CBD and relatively close to the Olympic stadium at Homebush. It is easy to park and safe in daylight.
    15km W, yes, but that is half an hour's travel away from central Sydney.

    ... close[ish (5km)] to Homebush, yes, but so what? To what advantage? If you know of some, I will be better informed.

    ... easy Parking, yes, but there is never more than 10-15 cars there because parents just dump there kids at the door and bolt.

    ... safe in daylight, hmmm, I guess we will simply have to disagree on this. Deserted open spaces are more dodgy than crowded streets. (Personally, I have no fear for my kids safty there or in the city.)

    Surrey Hills is much more seedy and dangerous even in the day. (The riots are often in Redfern but not in Lidcombe).
    The proposed centre, is about 30m on the Surry Hills side of the CBD border - 2km from the hot spot.

    Besides there is already a Chess Centre in Strathfield at Brett Tindall's Sydney Academy of Chess!
    But it ain't a chess centre that accommodated 200+ players.


    I realise that there is commercial competition issues and "turf" and "draw area" et cetera. However, I think we should be thinking of increasing the size of the pie. I must add that I think there is a very good case for having a Sydney Chess Centre in Paramatta because that is the demographic centre. Perhaps you could put a specific proposal for Paramatta, to the NSWCA.
    Last edited by PHAT; 15-08-2004 at 10:48 AM.

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