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  1. #61
    CC Candidate Master michael.mcguirk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Bourke
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    If you'll accept a draw in this game, I'll accept a draw in the other game. We both seem to have an advantage as Black.
    Alright, draw. Sounds like a fair deal.
    Destroying Robinson's Grob, one Compaq computer at a time.

  2. #62
    CC FIDE Master Phil Bourke's Avatar
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    Both good games, enjoyed them very much.
    Get into chess, its a lifetime of enjoyment!
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  3. #63
    CC Candidate Master michael.mcguirk's Avatar
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    Truthfully I missed in this game the simple pawn loss at the start I really wasn't paying too much attention. Then I found the nice dynamic central control that came from the situation and steered it into that direction. That turned into the kingside attack, which you very nicely avoided actually. I had missed Kg1 in my calculation and was actually thinking it was a forced win Nice recovery though!
    Destroying Robinson's Grob, one Compaq computer at a time.

  4. #64
    CC FIDE Master Phil Bourke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael.mcguirk
    Truthfully I missed in this game the simple pawn loss at the start I really wasn't paying too much attention. Then I found the nice dynamic central control that came from the situation and steered it into that direction. That turned into the kingside attack, which you very nicely avoided actually. I had missed Kg1 in my calculation and was actually thinking it was a forced win Nice recovery though!
    The recovery was easy Most of the moves there were forced! But playing through that with my Rook and Bishop still at home on a1 and c1 was disheartening. That was probably a legacy of 'winning' that pawn.
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  5. #65
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Bourke
    If you'll accept a draw in this game, I'll accept a draw in the other game. We both seem to have an advantage as Black.
    soft
    meep meep

  6. #66
    CC FIDE Master Phil Bourke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    soft
    I prefer gentlemanly End of the tournament, same result, a point each, I don't see the problem.
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  7. #67
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    soft
    More likely, legally dodgy, as the FIDE Laws state in Article 9.1b:

    If the rules of a competition allow a draw agreement the following apply: (1) A player wishing to offer a draw shall do so after having made a move on the chessboard and before stopping his clock and starting the opponent’s clock. An offer at any other time during play is still valid but Article 12.6 must be considered. No conditions can be attached to the offer. In both cases the offer cannot be withdrawn and remains valid until the opponent accepts it, rejects it orally, rejects it by touching a piece with the intention of moving or capturing it, or the game is concluded in some other way.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  8. #68
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Bourke
    I prefer gentlemanly End of the tournament, same result, a point each, I don't see the problem.
    Oh I don't think it's a problem either. Your games, end them how you wish. I just think it's soft.
    meep meep

  9. #69
    CC FIDE Master Phil Bourke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    More likely, legally dodgy, as the FIDE Laws state in Article 9.1b:

    If the rules of a competition allow a draw agreement the following apply: (1) A player wishing to offer a draw shall do so after having made a move on the chessboard and before stopping his clock and starting the opponent’s clock. An offer at any other time during play is still valid but Article 12.6 must be considered. No conditions can be attached to the offer. In both cases the offer cannot be withdrawn and remains valid until the opponent accepts it, rejects it orally, rejects it by touching a piece with the intention of moving or capturing it, or the game is concluded in some other way.
    I hadn't considered that angle at all. Next time I'll offer the deal secretly (via PM) and avoid all this hassle
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  10. #70
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Bourke
    I hadn't considered that angle at all. Next time I'll offer the deal secretly (via PM) and avoid all this hassle
    Jono is right. No conditions can be attached to any draw offer.

  11. #71
    CC FIDE Master Phil Bourke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvinator
    Jono is right. No conditions can be attached to any draw offer.
    Well, I am sorry. I didn't think of it like that, as far as I was concerned, it was just an agreement to draw. I felt that both sides were better as black, so we may have won one each, two draws gave the same result. Very sorry to have breached the rules regarding draw offers.
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  12. #72
    CC Candidate Master michael.mcguirk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Bourke
    Well, I am sorry. I didn't think of it like that, as far as I was concerned, it was just an agreement to draw. I felt that both sides were better as black, so we may have won one each, two draws gave the same result. Very sorry to have breached the rules regarding draw offers.
    Only an issue if I complain isn't it?
    Destroying Robinson's Grob, one Compaq computer at a time.

  13. #73
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    The FIDE laws are written for OTB situations in which opponents are playing each other just once at a time. I am not sure, even in major CC tournaments, whether it is common for players to be playing each other in a black game and white game simultaneously, which is necessary for this situation to arise.

    The rule is there to stop stuff like "I'll give you a draw for $400 under the table in a brown paper bag", "I'll give you a draw now so you can get your norm provided you throw the game the next three times we play", "I'll give you a draw if you withdraw your nomination for president of Chess Transylvania" and so on.

    In team tournaments it is common for the conditions to circumvent this rule by allowing team captains to agree to "package results" (eg "We'll give you a draw on board 1 if you also agree a draw on board 4").

    In this case, it's technically irregular but it's not a big deal.

  14. #74
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    In team tournaments it is common for the conditions to circumvent this rule by allowing team captains to agree to "package results" (eg "We'll give you a draw on board 1 if you also agree a draw on board 4").
    This could have been one thing the FIDE rule change had in mind. "Package deals" seem to be prohibited under the wording.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  15. #75
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    This could have been one thing the FIDE rule change had in mind. "Package deals" seem to be prohibited under the wording.
    From the Fide tournament rules section in the Fide handbook:
    15. Team Captain`s Role in Team Tournaments

    (a) The role of a team captain is basically an administrative one during play. Depending on the regulations of the specific competition, the captain shall be required to deliver, at a specific time, a written list naming the players in his team who will participate in each round, communicate to his players their pairing, sign the protocol indicating the results in the match at the end of the play, etc.

    (b) A captain is entitled to advise the players of his team to make or accept an offer of a draw or to resign a game, unless the regulations of the event stipulate otherwise. He must confine himself to give only brief information, based solely on the circumstances pertaining to the match.
    He may say to a player, “offer a draw, “accept the draw, or “resign the game. For example, if asked by a player whether he should accept an offer of a draw, the captain should answer “yes, “no, or delegate the decision to the player himself.

    The captain shall abstain from any intervention during play. He shall give no information to a player concerning the position on the chess board, nor consult any other person as to the state of the game.

    Players are subject to the same prohibitions. Even though in a team competition there is a certain team loyalty, which goes beyond a player`s individual game, a game of chess is basically a contest between two players. Therefore, the player must have the final say over the conduct of his own game.
    Although the advice of the captain should weigh heavily with the player, the player is not absolutely compelled to accept that advice. Likewise, the captain cannot act on behalf of a player and his game without the knowledge and consent of the player. All discussions shall take place in sight of the arbiter and he shall be entitled to insist on hearing the conversation.

    (c) A team captain should encourage his team always to follow both the letter and the spirit of Article 12 of the FIDE Laws of Chess concerning the conduct of the players. Team championships, in particular, should be conducted in the spirit of the highest sportsmanship.

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