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  1. #1516
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Might be worth belated correcting the spelling of "tendancies" on this old thread. [done-mod]
    Oh my giddy aunt! Gunner would turn in his grave. He extends his thanks.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.
    User Basil banned for seven days for sticking it up obsequious, hand wringing lefties in the shout box.

  2. #1517
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Welcome back, Elliott!

    Basil banned? Good grief.
    I support gender equality: in a marriage, there should be an equal number of both genders.

  3. #1518
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Basil banned? Good grief.
    I was surprised too that a poster of long standing would not know the rules regarding the higher standard of what is considered acceptable in the shoutbox.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  4. #1519
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elliott Renzies View Post
    Mother superior, only recently banned Chess Chat’s legendary member Basil for using the f..word to describe the leftard low lives! I am sure it wasn’t the f-word mother superior found offensive , it was its application to the followers of his beloved political agenda.
    Nonsense since the shout was not censored in any way other than redacting the offensive word. If the purpose was to censor the political view the shout could have been removed in toto. In any regard the ban was largely symbolic since it was only the default seven days and Basil is presently a infrequent poster.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  5. #1520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    Nonsense since the shout was not censored in any way other than redacting the offensive word. If the purpose was to censor the political view the shout could have been removed in toto. In any regard the ban was largely symbolic since it was only the default seven days and Basil is presently a infrequent poster.
    Both the ban and the redaction of the shout are forms of censorship -- one much more severe than the other, as it silences the poster completely. Naturally from the perspective of a left-of-centre moderator, banning conservative posters is far more efficient than redacting or deleting individual posts or shouts, as there will no longer be any conservative posts or shouts that they disagree with to redact.
    Southern Suburbs Chess Club (Perth)
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  6. #1521
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    A brief pet peeve on this: nothing that is done on this board is censorship. Censorship is an action of governments. The owners of private property (including this board) choosing what they will or will not publish using that property has nothing to do with censorship and is never a violation of freedom of speech and always the essence of it - whether those decisions are good ones or bad ones. For more information on these facts see this thread: http://www.chesschat.org/showthread....nd-association

    I'll also add that the pattern of bannings on CC over time has been that left-wing and/or politically confused posters are far more often banned for long periods or for good than the clearly right-wing posters.

  7. #1522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hardegen View Post
    Both the ban and the redaction of the shout are forms of censorship -- one much more severe than the other, as it silences the poster completely. Naturally from the perspective of a left-of-centre moderator, banning conservative posters is far more efficient than redacting or deleting individual posts or shouts, as there will no longer be any conservative posts or shouts that they disagree with to redact.
    Do you have any evidence that conservative posters are being banned, apart from the one case under discussion?

    Regarding the specific example, whether it is censorship or not - and I tend to agree with Kevin that it isn't - there are definitely children who post on this site, and I don't think it's a good idea to be exposing them to offensive language. They may not be offended, but their parents may see it differently. And it's very difficult to avoid seeing what's in the shoutbox.

  8. #1523
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    I'll also add that the pattern of bannings on CC over time has been that left-wing and/or politically confused posters are far more often banned for long periods or for good than the clearly right-wing posters.
    I must say that I think that the moderation is quite fair on this site. Despite huge ideological differences between me and the mods, I have never been banned, and the very few posts that have been deleted were for reasonable moderation reasons not for viewpoint. All the same, a PM to Basil as well as the redaction of the swear word would have been less heavy-handed than a week's ban, given his very constructive posts for many years, and he is certainly no troll.
    I support gender equality: in a marriage, there should be an equal number of both genders.

  9. #1524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    I must say that I think that the moderation is quite fair on this site. Despite huge ideological differences between me and the mods, I have never been banned, and the very few posts that have been deleted were for reasonable moderation reasons not for viewpoint. All the same, a PM to Basil as well as the redaction of the swear word would have been less heavy-handed than a week's ban, given his very constructive posts for many years, and he is certainly no troll.
    I definitely support the redaction.

    I think the moderators do a good job, and don't deserve the unsupported attacks that have been made on them.

    But I also thought the ban was a little strong. However, as Basil has always been a consistent supporter of tougher penalties, I assumed he would naturally want the same rule applied to himself

  10. #1525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Do you have any evidence that conservative posters are being banned, apart from the one case under discussion?
    You are missing the point.

    Basil's post expressed a political view. The moderator redacted the swear word and banned Basil for 7 days, preventing him from continuing to express any of his views for that period.

    The moderator was rightly challenged by Elliott, who asserted that this was precisely the motivation for the ban -- to prevent Basil from expressing any political views that the moderator did not support.

    The moderator replied that this was not the case, since while he had prevented Basil from posting for 7 days, he had only redacted the original post and not deleted it.

    To me, this response doesn't seem to address Elliott's concern.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Regarding the specific example, whether it is censorship or not - and I tend to agree with Kevin that it isn't - there are definitely children who post on this site, and I don't think it's a good idea to be exposing them to offensive language. They may not be offended, but their parents may see it differently. And it's very difficult to avoid seeing what's in the shoutbox.
    Of course swearing on this forum is unacceptable, and of course in all instances, swear words should be removed by moderators. But in my view the ban was completely over the top.
    Southern Suburbs Chess Club (Perth)
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  11. #1526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hardegen View Post
    You are missing the point. Basil's post expressed a political view. The moderator redacted the swear word and banned Basil for 7 days, preventing him from continuing to express any of his views for that period. The moderator was rightly challenged by Elliott, who asserted that this was precisely the motivation for the ban -- to prevent Basil from expressing any political views that the moderator did not support. The moderator replied that this was not the case, since while he had prevented Basil from posting for 7 days, he had only redacted the original post and not deleted it. To me, this response doesn't seem to address Elliott's concern.
    But how could the moderator have addressed Elliot's concern? Elliot provided no evidence for his claim which the moderator could have refuted. And the moderator did point out that the ban was for the standard seven days, implying that Basil had been treated no differently to anyone else - a claim which is (so far) unchallenged.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hardegen View Post
    Of course swearing on this forum is unacceptable, and of course in all instances, swear words should be removed by moderators. But in my view the ban was completely over the top.
    When you say the ban was over the top (OTT), are you saying that this specific ban was OTT, or that a seven day ban for shoutbox swearing is always OTT?

  12. #1527
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hardegen View Post
    You are missing the point.

    Basil's post expressed a political view. The moderator redacted the swear word and banned Basil for 7 days, preventing him from continuing to express any of his views for that period.

    The moderator was rightly challenged by Elliott, who asserted that this was precisely the motivation for the ban -- to prevent Basil from expressing any political views that the moderator did not support.

    The moderator replied that this was not the case, since while he had prevented Basil from posting for 7 days, he had only redacted the original post and not deleted it.

    To me, this response doesn't seem to address Elliott's concern.
    The ban was imposed on the 6th and lapsed on the 13th of June. No one contacted me directly to complain about the ban and Elliot's complaint was not posted until the 27th of June. Basil himself has been an very infrequent poster on the board only making 9 posts in 2017 thus far. (An average on less than one post every two weeks). Basil in the past has contacted me directly via email and could have contacted me if the ban in some way inconvenienced him in an unfair way.

    If the ban was so draconian I find it surprising that no one seemed inclined to point it out while it was still active and since (based on current posting activity) it may have inhibited an estimate of one half of one post that Basil might have made - then how any political motivation to silence a political viewpoint could be inferred.

    There are plenty of posters here that I have had more disagreements with their political views and whom I have never banned.

    All this post hoc hand wringing seems to be completely baseless.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  13. #1528
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    As the poster who originally posted the news about Cardinal Pell, I support the decision to take the thread off-line. I think what has been posted so far is probably okay, but further discussion could have easily overstepped the line.

    As Pell has been charged, perhaps all the posts relating to him - including older ones - could be removed entirely, and the thread limited to general discussion of the issue of institutional sexual abuse? I would have no objection to my post reporting the charges being erased.

  14. #1529
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    At the moment I'm looking at these issues:

    * Three posts that seem to prejudge that Pell is innocent and one that could be read as implying that Pell is guilty.
    * Some material on the old thread, including the title, that might have become accidentally sub judice in the context of the charges.
    * Whether to split the two threads.

    I'm keen to maximise the amount of discussion that can occur but this could well require some posts being moved to the Coffee Lounge and other changes. I don't intend to delete anything outright, though for the moment it is all offline while these issues are reviewed.

  15. #1530
    CC Grandmaster Redmond Barry's Avatar
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    For whom the Pell tolls.
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    Consecutive and slow -
    Fail in an instance no man did,
    Slipping - is Crash's law,

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