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  1. #61
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom
    free market
    !!! *choke* think about that. Probably the most un-free market that has ever existed. I didn't pick you for a brain-washed drone.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  2. #62
    Account Permanently Banned Axiom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    !!! *choke* think about that. Probably the most un-free market that has ever existed. I didn't pick you for a brain-washed drone.
    So you want socialist government intervention via new anti-competition laws ?

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom
    So you want socialist government intervention via new anti-competition laws ?
    Don't be a silly billy. Nothing I have said has suggested that.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  4. #64
    Account Permanently Banned Axiom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    Don't be a silly billy. Nothing I have said has suggested that.
    ok, so you want stiffer anti competitive laws or stiffer enforcement ?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom
    ok, so you want stiffer anti competitive laws or stiffer enforcement ?
    The laws are just about right IM(non expert)O.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  6. #66
    Account Permanently Banned Axiom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    The laws are just about right IM(non expert)O.
    i thought seeing you seem to know the problem well, you might proffer a solution .

  7. #67
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom
    i thought seeing you seem to know the problem well, you might proffer a solution .
    It was quite unfortunate that MS wasn't nailed. Some box-makers nearly squealed. I think one did but was discredited. Proving that software wasn't developed to market-ready levels because no practical chances of sale were available was also difficult. The evidence was anecdotal, overwhelming, but ultimately insufficient.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  8. #68
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    There is much 'chat' available on this subject. Here's the wiki glossary of some of the events to take on approximate face value. There is fodder for Jono and Igor and anyone else who wants to argue from the other end, but at the end of the day ... yup. Boot-licking, choice-free computing - for the whole world! Carry on!

    The various independent exposés on the retail bastardry aren't here. Some googling may assist.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  9. #69
    Account Permanently Banned Axiom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    It was quite unfortunate that MS wasn't nailed. Some box-makers nearly squealed. I think one did but was discredited. Proving that software wasn't developed to market-ready levels because no practical chances of sale were available was also difficult. The evidence was anecdotal, overwhelming, but ultimately insufficient.
    if it was so obvious that MS was shutting out competitors as you say , then why was the evidence overwhelmingly only anecdotal ? Surely cold hard evidence could be obtained if as you say the laws are adequate.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom
    if it was so obvious that MS was shutting out competitors as you say , then why was the evidence overwhelmingly only anecdotal ? Surely cold hard evidence could be obtained if as you say the laws are adequate.
    Axiom, I can't do the whole Microsoft thing one sentence at a time. This has been out for a decade or more. Current affairs, newspapers, courts and so forth. Short answer to your question is:

    "Hey My Box Manufacturer Guy, I see you're making boxes and they're getting shipped with Microsoft. Can you do a range without Microsoft?"
    "Technically, yes."
    "Great, I'll place an order for 20,000 units. When can you deliver?"
    "Ummm ... eeer ... ummm ... you know I don't think I can supply you - we're on pretty tight capacities here."

    or

    "Hey Mr Box Manu ..."
    "Go. Go away. No talking. Get camera out."

    or

    and so it went on.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  11. #71
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    You can poke around this article for a clue as to what was going on in the previous post. Check the related articles too. This was the first I found BTW - I'm not particularly interested in mounting the case here - that's been done - I'm more interested in insulting you plebs just for my own amusement.

    Please bear in mind that this link is the sanitised 2008 experience after MS realised the jig was up. A decade ago, it was simply impossible to buy a box without MS from a consumer dealership.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trahald
    Notepad++ FTW
    Excellent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    Let's not forget Calculator++
    What's the advantage?
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  13. #73
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    What's the advantage?
    The main one IMO is that it does unit conversions.

    A minor one is that the second function button relabels the functions with the names or symbols for the "inverse"* functions. E.g. It has buttons with radical signs for square-, cube- and nth-roots. To take a square root in calculator you need to raise to the power of 1/2 or use inverse x^2 . It's surprising the number of people who don't know or realise that these are the same thing.

    I suspect it has an extra few functions which may be useful from time to time (like logs to the base n and buttons for the number of combinations and permutations) but they are probably even more minor than the relabeling of the "inverse" functions.


    * Inverse is slightly inaccurate since the "inverse" of pi according to calculator is 2*pi. So Calculator++ is more accurate in calling this the "2nd function" button.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    It was quite unfortunate that MS wasn't nailed. Some box-makers nearly squealed. I think one did but was discredited. Proving that software wasn't developed to market-ready levels because no practical chances of sale were available was also difficult. The evidence was anecdotal, overwhelming, but ultimately insufficient.
    It is worth noting that OEMs do ship boxes with software on it that is not Microsoft and against which Microsoft has a directly competing product. Eg many OEMs ship PCs with a free trial of Norton anti-virus pre-installed. Microsoft's product in this range is/was OneCare. OneCare was a purchasable product, now I believe it is going to be free, either now or in the near future. What this might do to other anti-virus companies will be interesting.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    Yes. By their practices which have been covered copiously elsewhere, both here and in the courts. For the most part, Micosoft were unable to be fingered, even though everyone knew they were up to their eyeballs in it.
    Conventional wisdom is not a substitute for a fact. You assume that Microsoft behaved like a thug forcing everyone from the market and that's it's proven. It's not. So any conclusions based on that are very shaky.
    It rebinds me of global warmist screaming "the debate is over".
    I am far from saying that Microsoft is saint, but what they did was normal business practice.
    Microsoft's only fault is that it was immensely successful and nobody managed to make OS with comparable price and quality. Neither Apple, nor IBM.
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