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  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Pay Free Day For Employers?

    Monday 4 May is Labor Day in Queensland. I believe the idea is that employees celebrate their struggle against employers - and of course they get paid for it, by *ahem* the employers.

    If this is all kosher (and of course it isn't - it's a crock, but hey let's not go down that path), let's lock it in just for shits and giggles coz there's nothing I can do about it), let's ALSO have a reciprocal Pay Free Day.

    -- 9 out 10 small businesses will fail.
    -- During their living years, employers will inject their own cash into the business which they will lose.
    -- Many of those employers will be screwed by the employees (the same human nature that allows some employees to screw their employers); and yes the same employees getting paid for the day off today!
    -- During the business living years, many employers will pay themselves less than the correctly paid employees (who also being paid today for the day off by the employers who will eventually lose the lot!).
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  2. #2
    CC International Master TheJoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    -- 9 out 10 small businesses will fail.
    .
    Urban Myth: Small Business Failures

    The following quote comes from the website of the NSW Dept of State and Regional Development. We have checked out websites of other State departments and they show the same statistics.

    "Despite what is commonly thought, relatively few small businesses fail. Over the 2 year period 1994-95 and 1995-96, an average of 23 200 small businesses or 6.1% ceased operating in Australia. Less than 10% of these closures were due to bankruptcy proceedings (in the case of unincorporated businesses) or companies being liquidated. The other businesses closed down for reasons such as the owner retiring, seeking a different lifestyle or dying.

    The failure of Australian businesses fell significantly during the 1990's. It is estimated in 1999-2000, there were 3.6 failures per 1000 enterprises."
    Last edited by TheJoker; 03-05-2009 at 10:42 PM.

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Look, let's not turn this into another thread where I end up slamming you pointy-headed, lily whites for not haveing a clue - it's really, really, really tiring.

    This text appears to say that it is counting failures within two years of start up? Why does it pick two years???

    Its closing para (which you bold) sites a % of closures per 1,000 enterprises in a single year. WTF?
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  4. #4
    CC International Master TheJoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    This text appears to say that it is counting failures within two years of start up? Why does it pick two years???
    Well you need a time frame I am sure there are stat available for 5 and 10 years as well. What's the time frame for the 9 out of 10 figure 10 years or 100 years? Or is it 9/10 small business that fail do so due to poor planning and management

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    Its closing para (which you bold) sites a % of closures per 1,000 enterprises in a single year. WTF?
    Its 3.6 out of 1,000 or 0.36%.

  5. #5
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan


    Look, let's not turn this into another thread where I end up slamming you pointy-headed, lily whites for not haveing a clue - it's really, really, really tiring.

    This text appears to say that it is counting failures within two years of start up? Why does it pick two years???

    Its closing para (which you bold) sites a % of closures per 1,000 enterprises in a single year. WTF?
    Do you have any evidence to support you 9 out of 10 assertion? Or perhaps some parameters to clarify what you mean by it?

    The following story seems to play down the SME failure risk...

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-17164,00.html
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    GST to support SB!

    During a Treasurer's press conference when GST was announced , I asked why the moneys are given to State Govts and not to the small business support!
    "Well I might suggest that such a move would defeat the scheme's purpose" said someone, while most of my colleagues and officials kept on looking at eachother, till the next question got in. I received quite a few "interesting question!" like comments after it was over and that was it!
    However, and takinng Howie's suggestion very seriously, I bring the matter back here and raise the question to you "why the GST revenue is given to State Govts and not to the small business support!
    That would establish guarantee for their continuation, longer and more stable employment for their staff, as well as a breather of respite for our small businessmen and women who are at present suffering nightmares of uncertainty during the unstable times we all live through!
    After all GST generated revenue comes from SB taxes as well dosn't it?
    Last edited by ER; 03-05-2009 at 11:12 PM.
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  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    Do you have any evidence to support you 9 out of 10 assertion?
    No! The comment in the original wasn't intended to be presented as factual data as none exists. I'm happy to revise the figure downward, but certainly not to the level presented by the clown in the first citation (the editorial, not The Joker).

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    The following story seems to play down the SME failure risk...

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-17164,00.html
    Great piece. Thanks. It could be discerned that a number of businesses cease to trade as a precursor to to failure - it's a fine line, and if true, certainly disguises true failure rates. Full of semantics and as I believe the piece suggests, empirical data is not available.

    So that I can revert to the purpose of the thread, I'm going to settle (for want of doing any research myself ) on an extract from Barry's citation and adjust one of the premises for the Pay Free Day for employers to

    -- Over 50% of businesses fail

    for this, I rely on
    Quote Originally Posted by The Australian
    "Contrary to common perceptions, most Australian businesses survive for a considerable time," the paper says. "For example, around two-thirds of businesses are still operating after five years and almost half are still operating after 10 years."
    Last edited by Basil; 03-05-2009 at 11:43 PM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  8. #8
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Regardless of the semantics of the cease to trade / fail the figures seem to point to an exaggeration in the perception of SME failure rates and the first post echoed a common misconception.

    Moving on from this I am a little confused as to the main point of the whinge.

    Is it a belief that Australian workers receive too many public holidays? (Australians enjoy 10-12 public holidays per year which is pretty standard and certain not leading the way internationally).

    Or is it that the May public holiday in Queensland is meant to celebrate a left wing ideal which you believe inappropriate for inclusion in the calendar of public holidays?
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  9. #9
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    ... I am a little confused as to the main point...
    Neither of your two choices is accurate as the point of the thread, although incidentally I hold the second (and did when I was an employee - what a laugh eh?). The question being asked in the thread is Should there be a mandatory Pay Free Day?

    There is a day where employees are paid (by the employer! - enforced!) NOT to work for the purpose of acknowledging/ marking the difficulties/ struggles of employees.

    I'd like to hear people's objections to a day where employees work for FREE for the purpose of acknowledging/ marking the difficulties/ struggles of employers.
    Last edited by Basil; 04-05-2009 at 09:17 AM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    I'd like to hear people's objections to a day where employees work for FREE for the purpose of acknowledging/ marking the difficulties/ struggles of employers.
    For a few years France had a compulsory work-for-free day (Pentecost Monday; it has since returned to being a public holiday), though the purpose wasn't to be nice to employers but rather to fund government initiatives to help elderly people.

    Of course the unions responded by striking.

  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pappubahry
    Of course the unions responded by striking.
    Indeed. And of course if this fantasy of mine got up, the sickie rate would be through the roof. However, if any employer failed to pay the enforced holiday to celebrate all the struggles of being an employee, then it's court time.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    No! The comment in the original wasn't intended to be presented as factual data as none exists. I'm happy to revise the figure downward, but certainly not to the level presented by the clown in the first citation (the editorial, not The Joker).


    Great piece. Thanks. It could be discerned that a number of businesses cease to trade as a precursor to to failure - it's a fine line, and if true, certainly disguises true failure rates. Full of semantics and as I believe the piece suggests, empirical data is not available.

    So that I can revert to the purpose of the thread, I'm going to settle (for want of doing any research myself ) on an extract from Barry's citation and adjust one of the premises for the Pay Free Day for employers to

    -- Over 50% of businesses fail

    for this, I rely on
    I wonder how many of those fledgling companies had any employees at all.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    I wonder how many of those fledgling companies had any employees at all.
    There would be many of those businesses which didn't have employees. There would also be many people being paid to do nothing today by employers who get nothing but a dream run from those same employers.

    As you and I have found out before, I think it's best not to look for example and counter example. Is the idea of of a Pay Free Day as presented good enough on its merits?

    Hypothetically of course
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  14. #14
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    There would be many of those businesses which didn't have employees. There would also be many people being paid to do nothing today by employers who get nothing but a dream run from those same employers.

    As you and I have found out before, I think it's best not to look for example and counter example. Is the idea of of a Pay Free Day as presented good enough on its merits?

    Hypothetically of course
    On the merits as presented here, no.

    I don't really care about Labour Day, would be just as happy if it were abolished. I would prefer that to having some pay-free day as a counter-balance.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  15. #15
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    On the merits as presented here, no.

    I don't really care about Labour Day, would be just as happy if it were abolished. I would prefer that to having some pay-free day as a counter-balance.
    As it happens I am not in favour either of pay Free Day either, but possibly for different reasons. I was hoping to hear argument from lefties as to why not

    Now about this abolition of Labour Day! Yeah right
    Last edited by Basil; 04-05-2009 at 03:10 PM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

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