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  1. #1
    CC Candidate Master Javier Gil's Avatar
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    (I just read about this in the closetgrandmaster's blog)

    Regarding the Sarah Anton - Paul Broekhuyse game game (in which Paul resigned a clearly better ending after Sarah made an illegal move by moving her knight diagonally and thus forking his King and Queen), I think it's unbelieveable that the arbiters did nothing about this. I mean, from now on, it's probably worth trying making illegal moves like that, after all, you can't lose a game by making an illegal move, can you?
    I know she wasn't trying to cheat and this was a case of mutual blindness, but by doing nothing, the arbiters are saying: you might as well try it, you're not risking much, and you might get away with it in some cases!

    Shocking decission by the arbiters, in my opinion.

    Is this the first time ever someone is allowed to make an illegal move and get away with it?? Really shocking!
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  2. #2
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javier Gil
    Shocking decission by the arbiters, in my opinion.
    Actually under the FIDE laws the arbiters have no choice.

    5.1b The game is won by the player whose opponent declares he resigns. This immediately ends the game.

    Is this the first time ever someone is allowed to make an illegal move and get away with it?? Really shocking!
    No it's certainly not the first time this sort of thing has happened - indeed it has happened to me twice (once in my favour, once not)!

    In a blitz tournament once my opponent played an illegal queen move (slipped a square on a diagonal). I had been completely winning the game and thought I had all possible threats covered - when a forced mate in two suddenly appeared on the board I resigned in dismay before realising that I really had covered the threats and the move had been illegal.

    In a rated game my opponent was trying to mate me with K+Q vs K and he had about 20 seconds on his clock (guillotine). I unintentionally made an illegal move leaving my king in check and before I could correct it my opponent moved his queen and stalemated me. As he had stalemated me with a legal move the game was over and the result stood.

    In a recent Croydon tournament there was a resignation following an illegal move and the players decided to agree a draw when this was pointed out. However had the players not agreed the arbiter would probably have ruled the resignation stood.

    You say it's a shocking decision by the arbiters but they are correctly implementing the laws as they stand; if you have an issue here it should be with the Laws not the arbiters.

    Of course if the arbiter believes the illegal move was deliberate (and hence cheating) they are well within their powers to overrule the resignation and take appropriate action against the cheating player.

  3. #3
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    if the arbiters didnt know of the illegal moves before receiving the scoresheets, then its not their responsibility to examine each game. Players need to take responsibility to look after their own board.

    A player could also make an illegal move, keep playing and demand that the board reverts back to its originasl position before the game ends.

  4. #4
    CC International Master Mischa's Avatar
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    Umm...I don't get how an experienced chess player can make such a move

  5. #5
    CC International Master Miranda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mischa
    Umm...I don't get how an experienced chess player can make such a move
    Everyone blunders, and everyone makes mistakes.
    It's time for man to enter the Solar System - Dan Quayle

  6. #6
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mischa
    Umm...I don't get how an experienced chess player can make such a move
    Crossed wires in the brain happen sometimes under pressure, especially in time trouble. Some players are more prone to it than others but experience and skill are not necessarily barriers.

  7. #7
    CC International Master Mischa's Avatar
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    ok.....

  8. #8
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    According to TCG this was the game (it's quite interesting even without the incident):

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    and now 54.Nf5-d7+ 1-0.

    Prior to that white had been winning for much of the game but had drifted in the endgame. Without the incident it looks drawn though black would play on for a while in the hope of picking something off if white made an error.

  9. #9
    CC Candidate Master BearDrinkingBeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Prior to that white had been winning for much of the game but had drifted in the endgame. Without the incident it looks drawn though black would play on for a while in the hope of picking something off if white made an error.
    That reminds me of a game I saw recently.

    Event: Grand Prix
    Site: Nalchik
    Date: 2009
    Round: 1
    White: Leko Peter
    Black: Kamsky Gata
    Result: 1/2-1/2
    PlyCount: 242

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    http://www.chessbase.com/news/2009/f.../nalchik01.htm
    Last edited by BearDrinkingBeer; 16-04-2009 at 06:02 PM.

  10. #10
    CC International Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mischa
    Umm...I don't get how an experienced chess player can make such a move
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Crossed wires in the brain happen sometimes under pressure, especially in time trouble. Some players are more prone to it than others but experience and skill are not necessarily barriers.
    One way to explain how this can happen is that part of the way a chess player thinks (well I can't speak for everybody but I think most people would agree) is to visualise a good position and then work out how to get to it. So if you see that two pieces are a Knight fork apart you look at how to get the Knight in there or utilise the threat of doing so. Thus White would see that a Knight on d7 (or e4) would win the Queen - as both the Knight and Black King had changed position in the last move, and possibly last second, it's understandable that it might not have conciously registered that it can't be done in one move.

    As noted above the rules are quite clear that an illegal move stands if not detected during the game, and the arbiters have no discretion unless they believed it to be deliberate (punishing reprehensible behaviour should of course always trump the procedures for "normal" circumstances). Generally it is not feasible to revisit such games even if in this case it could have been done.

    Although it might seem tempting to play an illegal move in the hope of getting away with it, in practice it's unlikely to be effective. First the opponent will probably notice and you achieve nothing except get penalised. Second you can only do it once or twice before you get a reputation and players and arbiters are on the lookout. If you try it a third time and the arbiter rules it deliberate you don't have much comeback; the arbiter, like any sporting umpire, is not governed by "beyond reasonable doubt" and with your past record you'd have an effort winning over an Appeals Committee.

  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    and now 54.Nf5-d7+ 1-0.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mischa
    Umm...I don't get how an experienced chess player can make such a move
    Conversely, experienced players know that they are vulnerable to occasional brainfarts, so would be inclined to give the benefit of the doubt. After all, a veteran like PaulB, former Australian Junior Champion, missed it too.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  13. #13
    CC International Master Kaitlin's Avatar
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    Cool

    You know how I sometimes make a bad move..

    I think the two moves ahead (so im level 2 now) and think ..hmm that wont be good, then i think another one and think ..hmm that wont be good.. then I think of a good two moves ahead - and then play that move, fogetting I havent played the other two moves first ... and then its not good
    .. this Caketin is full of little spiders and watermelon seeds.....

    ..Chess is all about fear and psychology

    ..Chess is like an exam..... you havent studied for

    ..If you're good at Chess it means you are very intelligent and could potentialy do great things
    ..... but that you might have wasted that playing way too much chess

  14. #14
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    I had exactly the same sort of thing happen in an ACT Championship in which I was the arbiter, The two players involved were both mature and very experienced players. One of them moved a knight two squares diagonally (the bishop's move in old Arabian chess) but neither player noticed it! I was not a witness. A spectator was and informed me but when I went to the board there were no knights there at all so I declined to take action. Then the opponent raised the issue so I stopped the clocks and we went back through the game to find that each player had recorded the illegal move as played (?!). The game still being in progress, the position before the illegal move was restored, the clocks adjusted and the game continued. As it happened the player who made the illegal move was totally lost after moving the knight according to the rules so it all finished almost immediately.

    DJ
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

  15. #15
    CC Candidate Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    I had exactly the same sort of thing happen in an ACT Championship in which I was the arbiter, The two players involved were both mature and very experienced players. One of them moved a knight two squares diagonally (the bishop's move in old Arabian chess) but neither player noticed it! I was not a witness. A spectator was and informed me but when I went to the board there were no knights there at all so I declined to take action. Then the opponent raised the issue so I stopped the clocks and we went back through the game to find that each player had recorded the illegal move as played (?!). The game still being in progress, the position before the illegal move was restored, the clocks adjusted and the game continued. As it happened the player who made the illegal move was totally lost after moving the knight according to the rules so it all finished almost immediately.

    DJ
    If the player who made the illegal move ends up in a losing position, and then notices that he made an illegal move earlier, can he request for the game to be restored to the position prior to the illegal move being made? Can the opponent (who is now in a winning position, and who was not the player at fault) not agree to restoring the position, and request that the game be continued with the status quo? Otherwise, it seems to me that the illegal-move perpetrator gets a second chance in the game e.g. if you play an illegal move and notice it later, you can keep quiet if you are winning until the opponent objects - but if you are then losing, you can ask for the game to be restored to the move prior to the illegal move. Seems a bit unfair for the opponent if he is already in a winning position and has to re-play the game?

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