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Basil
16-11-2008, 01:57 PM
White to move.

What do you play and why? I've decided not to advertise what white played and what he saw and didn't see, until later.

Answers and analysis in white please.
No engines.
No females in the dorms after 10pm.

Let's try not to have everyone with the same answer please.

r1b4r/1p1nkppp/p2b4/1B1p4/Q2NqP2/4P3/PP1B2PP/2R2RK1 w - - 3 18

Capablanca-Fan
16-11-2008, 02:07 PM
White to move.

What do you play and why? I've decided not to advertiser what white played and what he saw and didn't see until later.

Answers and analysis in white please.
No engines.
No females in the dorms after 10pm.

Let's try not to have everyone with the same answer please.

r1b4r/1p1nkppp/p2b4/1B1p4/Q2NqP2/4P3/PP1B2PP/2R2RK1 w - - 3 18
I like Bb4, which exchanges Black's good B and weakens his dark squares. I welcome 1... Qxe3+ since that opens up the file on which the BK is.

Miranda
16-11-2008, 05:03 PM
I would play Bxd7, just to trade off pieces. Because if there's lots of pieces, there's lots of tactics, and tactics are bad.

Desmond
16-11-2008, 05:53 PM
1.Rxc8 intending 2.Bxd7 looks tempting, but I think fails after 1...Nb6

Aaron Guthrie
16-11-2008, 05:54 PM
1.Rxc8! Nb6 (1...Rxc8 2.Bxd7 is killing) 2.Rxa8! (I am not sure which rook to take) 2...Nxa4 (2...Rxa8 3.Qa5 keeps the extra bit) 3.Bxa4!! (Rxh8 good too, but) now if 3...Rxa8 4.Bc2 wins the queen.

edit- And if 1...axb5 2.Qxa8 Nb6 3.Qxb7+

Igor_Goldenberg
16-11-2008, 07:44 PM
Mangafranga has it covered.
Another possibility (not as good, but requires less calculation):
1. Rxc8 Nb6 2.Nc6+ bxc6 3.Qxe4+ dxe4 4.Rxa8 followed by Bxc6 with comfortable extra pawn. In they game I would play 1.Rc8 and make a decision after 1...Nb6

Capablanca-Fan
16-11-2008, 08:21 PM
Manga's sting in the tail 4 Bc2 makes it a forced win.
Even aside from this, the suggested 1.Bxd7 helps Black finish development, and weakens White's light squares; tactics should be good for white with the lead in development and Black's K stuck in the centre.

Basil
16-11-2008, 10:57 PM
OK, lots going on eh? Here's are the next few moves in the game. Black played on until he was -10. All commentary welcome. Did someone mentioned sting in the tail?

Still no engines, thanks.
No need for white text any more.

1. Rxc8 Rhxc8 2. Bxd7 b5 3. Bxc8 bxa4 4. Bf5 Kf6 5.Bxe4 dxe4

Capablanca-Fan
16-11-2008, 11:05 PM
Well played. Black is just a whole piece down in that position so could give up right there.

Miranda
17-11-2008, 08:10 AM
That's a pretty good tactic.

:lol: this is why I don't win enough games - I don't see things like that!

Igor_Goldenberg
17-11-2008, 01:20 PM
I missed the whole 2...b5 line

Capablanca-Fan
17-11-2008, 02:00 PM
That's a pretty good tactic.

:lol: this is why I don't win enough games — I don't see things like that!
You'll rarely see them if you don't look in the first place, and make compromising moves in the hope of avoiding tactics ;)

To be fair, I wasn't looking hard enough either, being satisfied with a positional solution when there was a clear-cut combinational +- solution at hand, as Manga and Gunner found.

Basil
18-11-2008, 12:28 AM
I haven't finished with this thread yet! :P

What I played wasn't correct. I would be posting analysis now, 'cept I'm still at the office because some bright spark decided to combat the recessionary sentiment with the launch of a new title which goes to press on Wednesday :uhoh: :wall: :doh:

Miranda
18-11-2008, 08:15 AM
What DID you play?

Basil
18-11-2008, 11:55 PM
What DID you play?
I played what was reported at post #8. What I played was incorrect. Trying to get back to the thread. Presently have 3 mins a day for CC until later in teh week. Will report later. Someone very welcome to step BTW. IIRC, Jono's line Bb4 was best.

Miranda
19-11-2008, 07:39 AM
lol...Gunner's first problem with marriage! :P He can't get on CC as often as he wants to!

MichaelBaron
21-11-2008, 10:24 PM
lol...Gunner's first problem with marriage! :P He can't get on CC as often as he wants to!

Marriages are all about getting problems :)

Capablanca-Fan
24-11-2008, 06:51 PM
I played what was reported at post #8. What I played was incorrect. Trying to get back to the thread. Presently have 3 mins a day for CC until later in teh week. Will report later. Someone very welcome to step BTW. IIRC, Jono's line Bb4 was best.
Now I'm confused :uhoh: :eek: :confused:

Aaron Guthrie
24-11-2008, 07:00 PM
Now I'm confused :uhoh: :eek: :confused:1.Rxc8 Raxc8! 2.Bxd7 Rc4! (now Qb3 intending Qxb7+ doesn't win the rook on a8) is my guess.

Igor_Goldenberg
25-11-2008, 08:54 AM
1.Rxc8 Raxc8! 2.Bxd7 Rc4! (now Qb3 intending Qxb7+ doesn't win the rook on a8) is my guess.
3.Nf5+

Capablanca-Fan
25-11-2008, 08:57 AM
3.Nf5+
3... Qxf5.

Igor_Goldenberg
25-11-2008, 09:08 AM
3... Qxf5.
4.Qxc4 Kxd7 5.Qb3 += (5...Kc7 6.Ba5+ Kb8 7.Rd1 d4 8.Rxd4 Qxa5 9.Rxd7+/-, well almost, because of 9.Qe1#:lol: )

Capablanca-Fan
25-11-2008, 02:40 PM
4.Qxc4 Kxd7 5.Qb3 += (5...Kc7 6.Ba5+ Kb8 7.Rd1 d4 8.Rxd4 Qxa5 9.Rxd7+/-, well almost, because of 9.Qe1#:lol: )
Hence the saying, "A long variation is usually a wrong variation" ;)

Basil
25-11-2008, 10:30 PM
White to move.

What do you play and why? I've decided not to advertise what white played and what he saw and didn't see, until later.

Answers and analysis in white please.
No engines.
No females in the dorms after 10pm.

Let's try not to have everyone with the same answer please.

r1b4r/1p1nkppp/p2b4/1B1p4/Q2NqP2/4P3/PP1B2PP/2R2RK1 w - - 3 18

OK - at last. Let's wrap up what we started.

19.Rxc8 was played in the game and was made to look pretty with assistance from the opponent (with plausible moves).

19.Rxc8 is incorrect and the computer assessment changes from +2.5 (approx) to +0.9 (approx) as a result.

Only after having played the move, did white see that a recapture on c8 was not forced and white had kittens while waiting for 20... Nb6 and the newly-dawning assessment of rooks for queens. As it turns out, fear was not necessary with white clearly better. What's important is that white hadn't even considered 19...Nb6

As it turned out black played Raxc8 and was worse at -3.45

But wait! There's more ... Had black played 19...Raxc8 (as disinterred (eventually) by Manga, I believe), then 20.Bxd7 Rc4! leaves white with a paltry .65 for all his hard work and having flushed a plus 2 in the process.

7r/1p1Bkppp/p2b4/3p4/Q1rNqP2/4P3/PP1B2PP/5RK1 w - - 1 20

The 'Who's Kidding Who' series is brought to you by Commander - Patzer Division and the letter M.

Capablanca-Fan
25-11-2008, 10:38 PM
19.Rxc8 was played in the game and was made to look pretty with assistance from the opponent (with plausible moves).
Yeah, sure looked good at the time.


19.Rxc8 is incorrect and the computer assessment changes from +2.5 (approx) to +0.9 (approx) as a result.
So what move does it suggest to keep +2.5?

Basil
25-11-2008, 10:52 PM
So what move does it suggest to keep +2.5?
It likes your 19.Bb4, suggesting the best continuation thereafter is

19...Bxb4 20. Qxb4 Kd8 21. Qa3 axb5 22. Qxa8 Qxe3 23. Kh1 Nb6 24. Rxc8 Nxc8 @ +2.45

Q1nk3r/1p3ppp/8/1p1p4/3N1P2/4q3/PP4PP/5R1K w - - 0 24