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Elwood Bendigo
25-03-2008, 07:56 PM
Last week I received a email from the HBCC and in it was a calendar. Having not played since the Elwood bendigo tournament in Nov I was excited to play.

I live around the corner in Spotswood, so it was a short drive to the club for the first round of the Purdy cup.

I arrived about half an hour before the start of play, and played a couple of games of blitz before hand- it was good to see some friends and have a chat-
I was asked if I intended to play and of course I said yes-

They started the pairing, and the DP asked what my ranking was and they duly started the pairing( I was still playing blitz at the time)They then proceeded to call out the pairings-I thought I must of missed my name and I was right-the Dp said that I was not in the draw because "I had turned up late"-

He explained that they had a week prior arranged the numbers and it was odd number if I was included- I argued that

a) I was not late- but what he said that was because I had not turned up a week prior when they had taken the first entries and that because there was an odd number no- I was- I asked weather it was stated that entried needed to be in prior to the start date - the answer was no, but I had missedout becaue there was an odd number and that I had a point bye-
b) That I was not the lowest ranked player by a long shot and therefore I should not receive a bye
c) I asked weather this was a closed tournament to HBCC members and the answer was "no" so why were there certain exclusionary conditions in place. And all the DP saidwasthat he was acting under instruction of the president
d) That I took the email of the calendar as invitation to both members and non members- I was told in response that I was late because I had not turned up a week prior ( the calendar said " no chess" - a social night) when the entries were considered - there was no email once this had occurred to the effect- therefore not protecting players from turning up and wasting there time

At the same time that I was arguing my case the treasurer said" but you’re not even a member" - I referred back to point C-

The DP said he would love me to play but had been guided by the president - who did not offer any comment but that of" shush" - disappointing to say the least.

Don’t get me wrong I have played many tournaments at the HBCC AND THOUROUGHLY ENJOYED THEM_ but this set of circumstances was a let down_

The DP told me that I was in the draw for next week-

I was also a disappointed that they knew the situation earlier and called out the draw- surely the decent thing to do was to let me know prior

My question to you is

i) is this a normal situation
ii) Should a say Guy West or some other highly ranked player turned up would they have been treated any differently
iii)should have the draw been done and ranking consideration BEEN APPLIED?

Basil
25-03-2008, 08:15 PM
Hi EB

-- You don't have a leg to stand on. Shame.
-- The club's bedside manner possibly sucked (can't tell from only your version).
-- Without a specified cut-off time for entries, the club can decide after the fact how it wants to treat odd numbers and who gets the chop. A last in, first out basis is as good as any (especially if they can back that up with an illusory secret deadline that wasn't advertised fudge fudge).
-- I can't deny a club favouring its home players if that is what it wants to do.
-- Guy would have received the welcome mat and a game in the first round.

Elwood Bendigo
25-03-2008, 08:23 PM
Ok your pointd are valid-

But I have never experienced these circumstances before so I am a little peeved-

If I had driven to say the Melbourne CC ( about 45 mins drive ) with the intent to play, I would be a little more peeved off


Hi EB

-- You don't have a leg to stand on. Shame.
-- The club's bedside manner possibly sucked (can't tell from only your version).
-- Without a specified cut-off time for entries, the club can decide after the fact how it wants to treat odd numbers and who gets the chop. A last in, first out basis is as good as any (especially if they can back that up with an illusory secret deadline that wasn't advertised fudge fudge).
-- I can't deny a club favouring its home players if that is what it wants to do.
-- Guy would have received the welcome mat and a game in the first round.

MichaelBaron
26-03-2008, 08:50 PM
What happened to Elwood Bendigo is very disappointing.:( . Hopefully all of the other chess clubs are taking better care of its visitors.

Axiom
26-03-2008, 08:57 PM
What happened to Elwood Bendigo is very disappointing.:( . Hopefully all of the other chess clubs are taking better care of its visitors.
absolutely agree , sounds like it was handled very badly

WhiteElephant
26-03-2008, 09:59 PM
I can understand why the club would make the decision to give EB the bye in the first round.

However!

The way it was handled definitely sounds like poor form. Someone should have spoken to EB and explained the situation before the draw was read out. The attitude of the president and treasurer do not sound very welcoming to new members.

Who is the HB President by the way, the position is shown as being vacant on the website?

DogLover
27-03-2008, 12:14 AM
I am a former member of Hobsons Bay Chess Club.I found the club to be a friendly and an enjoyable place to play chess.
I never had an incident there that made me unhappy (apart from losing to DeanH!!).There are only a few committee members and most have jobs and families to worry about.Occasionally minor mistakes are made because the committee members dont have enough time to make things perfect.In this case the result is that EB gets a bye instead of the lowest rated player.Is it so bad considering that this same (lower rated) player usually gets a bye in many of the tournaments throughout the year?
It might be worth it for some of you to consider what that feels like.

Everyone is welcome to play at Hobsons Bay Chess Club,unfortunately you cant please all of the people all of the time.Although Hobsons Bay Chess Club comes pretty close.

Basil
27-03-2008, 12:30 AM
I am a former member of Hobsons Bay Chess Club...
There aren't any rights or wrongs. Your headline is a good one. The whole thing would have been moot had had the point of contact advised EB on arrival that he might miss out - a small nicety.

MichaelBaron
27-03-2008, 01:04 AM
My question to you is

i) is this a normal situation
ii) Should a say Guy West or some other highly ranked player turned up would they have been treated any differently
iii)should have the draw been done and ranking consideration BEEN APPLIED?


Hmm...tough questions to answer..let me try..and lets see if others will agree with my answers or not...

1) I hope this is an abonormal situation
2) A tricky question :). All the players are supposed to be treated equally. However, as i have noticed on many instances and in many clubs - equality is rarely there. Over the years i have witnessed a) top seed being allowed to postpone last round games at state championships while others were not b) Some players being criticized for short draws while others (who make them more frequently than others) are not c) arbiters listening to some players but not to the others d) colours being reversed because of one of the players telling the arbiter that he "would rather play with white pieces" e) players having to play with black 3 games in a row (and the 3d one was not in the last round and yes alternative options were easily available) because of either a) arbiter's complete incompetence or b) (and that looked very possible at the time) arbiter trying to help his friend win a prize f) a player losing on time but arbiter requesting for the game to continue g) a tournament organizer asking someone to "be an appeals committee" prior to the start of the last round h) players getting 0.5 byes in the last rounds i) arbiter stuffing up last round draw and that resulted in a dispute...and the list can go on!
3) unless there is a player who is volantarily prepared to take a bye, lowest rated player is supposed to get it

MichaelBaron
27-03-2008, 01:14 AM
[QUOTE=DogLover]Is it so bad considering that this same (lower rated) player usually gets a bye in many of the tournaments throughout the year?
It might be worth it for some of you to consider what that feels like.

QUOTE]

Yes this is so bad! I do not want to go to prison or drink myself to a semi-consious state to understand "what it feels like". There are Fide rules of chess (aka laws) that are to be followed. Giving byes randomly to make stronger players feel "more understanding of then feelings of humble 800 rated players) will turn chess into circus. Ok, a mistake was made, and hopefully it will never be repeated. I am sure neither Elwood Bendigo or HBCC feel its end of the world, but lets just say it was a mistake..move on rather than try to explain how the bye had "educational value" in helping 1700 rated Elwood Bendigo understand feelings of weaker players better.

deanhogg
27-03-2008, 08:22 AM
Hi,all
l'd just like to say we regret what happen on Tuesday night
at HOBSONBAY/CC .We'll l do anyhow . The decision was made not to
allow Barbaros play because we had odd number of player's on the list
included unrated player Chris Mullins to fair to him he had he's name
down the week before to play . l consulted experience person about
this manner he felt that Chris had priorty first . Our club friendly easy
going club we welcome any person to play but .l'd say in future for any
player ring or email the DP if you want to play it will save any
disappointment's you might have about the club on that night.

Hope to see you at club next week

Cheer's Dean

Garvinator
27-03-2008, 08:28 AM
From reading the posts so far, it seems clear that the situation was not handled well.

Having read EB's first post a couple of times, it seems clear that his biggest 'gripe' is the lack of a clear answer from anyone. He seemed to be getting inconsistent answers from people who should know what the policy is.

I think a simple answer of- when there are odd numbers for the first round, last person to put their name down gets the bye, regardless of their rating- would have at least explained their policy in easy to understand, clear terms.

CameronD
27-03-2008, 08:31 AM
At my local club, club laws require the pairings to be released 4 nights before play (Tuesday), so you'd have to notify the club via email or person intent to play before then.

I think the system of a 1/2 point bye for the last entrant has a lot of merit and would encourage people to enter earlier. Be happy for the full point and enjoy your game next week.