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Basil
21-03-2008, 02:50 PM
There has been comment on this board (and no doubt in many many chess circles) regarding screwing the pieces in and bangin' 'em down.

This (http://www.echecs-photos.be/BobbyFischer-photos/slides/1971%20Bobby%20Fischer%20vs%20Bent%20Larsen%20Denv er%201971.html) is what Bobby Fischer had to say on the matter. Tell your children.

Garrett
21-03-2008, 03:41 PM
I get slightly annoyed when someone plays a move, hits the clock, then adjusts the piece in my time.

Easy to do I guess, I almost did it against Solo last Sunday, the piece was not quite in the center of the square and my impulse was to correct it but I kept my hand to myself.

Garrett
21-03-2008, 03:45 PM
This is probably not the right thread to discuss this,

but I don't think it warrants its own thread and Howie won't get many replies anyway but,

how do you like your knights ?

I always turn mine in towards the royalty at the start of the game.

Some people point them forward.

Rincewind
21-03-2008, 04:03 PM
http://www.chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=121654&postcount=17

Garrett
21-03-2008, 04:08 PM
thanks Rincewind !

I have been facing them inwards since I was a little boy. Not sure if it had much to do with the old descriptive notation or not.

Anyway - I am hijacking the Gunners thread.

Damn those people who bang the pieces down !

Rincewind
21-03-2008, 04:27 PM
I have been facing them inwards since I was a little boy. Not sure if it had much to do with the old descriptive notation or not.

We may not even know why. Perhaps the person who taught us did it because the person who taught them did it, etc, etc.

A friend of mine faces them both the same sideways direction. Many people face them forward, ready for action. I don't hold knight orientation against anyone.

However piece banging is unprofessional. I'm told the way I handle the pieces changes depending no the stage of the game. When I'm getting into a winning position I tend to move the pieces more "confidently" however I would be mortified if I discovered I was a banger.

Blitz is another story and for reasons of speed (I'm not very good at blitz relative to my slow chess) I often get into terrible time trouble, leading to more animated games. In such situations it is not good to be the clock.

Capablanca-Fan
21-03-2008, 06:22 PM
I have been facing them inwards since I was a little boy. Not sure if it had much to do with the old descriptive notation or not.
I think that is right. The idea was to keep them facing the same way throughout the game, so KN and QN will always be distinguished.

I face mine towards the centre, but don't mind if you want to face them inwards.

Basil
31-03-2008, 06:01 PM
Normally a paragon of etiquette within a playing hall, I found I failed to prevent a disgusted audible snort (my first one ever!) on the weekend while observing a game on the second board. I required myself to leave the playing hall immediately, lest I did something naughty.

One of Queensland's up and coming juniors (watched by his father) was dead lost (K v KBPP) and had a right strop on! His face was wracked with petulance - no doubt with disappointment at his own play as well as possibly a junior version of "why must I lose to this idiot?". This 'talent' made his opponent play the game out to mate - and no, this lad is not new to the game and would know better. In fact, I'm sure I can invoke visions of his complaints had the same been done to him.

However, that is not the gripe. This petulant brat was barely placing his pieces on the square. Slumped back in his chair, making no effort to reach forward, he managed to misplace his king every move requiring his opponent to adjust - the king on every occasion was cut across a line. Clearly he didn't care and most likely so because his behaviour is tolerated by his parents and coach.

And so this went on for 15 moves - forcing the game out to mate (I am told).

Parents. If you are reading this thread, please take time to de-brat your children!

Footnote: There is little prospect of parental salvation in this particular instance as the parent himself was disciplined for holding a full strength conversation aside of board one in round one (which I enjoyed immensely - the disciplining, not the conversation :eek:).

Spiny Norman
01-04-2008, 08:33 AM
... I failed to prevent an audible snort ...
I have a sneezing problem on occasions. They're not the sort of sneezes you can predict either, so perhaps they're a cross between a sneeze and a snort. Very disconcerting because they are very, VERY LOUD. One caught me off guard in a meeting at my son's school the other night. About 250 people in the auditorium, someone speaking from the stage, sitting next to my 15-year-old son, when all of a sudden:

AAARRRRRGGGGHHHHH-HEHHHHHH!!!!! :doh:

I swear every face in the room turned towards me, all 250 of them. Son was mortified. DAD!!! I started laughing uncontrollably, which only embarrassed him even more.

Lets not even start on grumblin' tums!

Adamski
01-04-2008, 12:52 PM
This is probably not the right thread to discuss this,

but I don't think it warrants its own thread and Howie won't get many replies anyway but,

how do you like your knights ?

I always turn mine in towards the royalty at the start of the game.

Some people point them forward.I recall in NZ that a young Michael Freeman (past NZ corres chess champion and a Corres Master) always pointed his knights backwards! Psychological I guess - makes people think they are just for defending. Of course, It would not stop him as White playing a move like Nd6! or Ne6! :)

Zwischenzug
01-04-2008, 01:21 PM
thanks Rincewind !

I have been facing them inwards since I was a little boy. Not sure if it had much to do with the old descriptive notation or not.

Anyway - I am hijacking the Gunners thread.

Damn those people who bang the pieces down !

My knights are always facing the enemy king!

road runner
01-04-2008, 08:45 PM
Some coaches teach juniors to never resign.

ElevatorEscapee
03-04-2008, 09:34 PM
^^

Chess coaches should teach some chess etiquette in their lessons, such as: "Pack up the pieces when you are finished and not leave them lying all over the floor!" ;) (In my experience, many juniors [and adults] are sadly lacking in this ability).

MichaelBaron
04-04-2008, 11:16 AM
What can we expect from juniors if some strong adult competitors also play till mate?

I still remember playing IM Solomon in Elwood Open about 10 years ago..I was queen, rook and a couple of pieces up..but he was playing on.

The good thing is..spectators were greatly entertained ;)

Intuition
04-04-2008, 01:50 PM
What can we expect from juniors if some strong adult competitors also play till mate?

I still remember playing IM Solomon in Elwood Open about 10 years ago..I was queen, rook and a couple of pieces up..but he was playing on.

The good thing is..spectators were greatly entertained ;)

when an opponent refuses to resign i like to take everything untill they have a lone king, give it only 2 possible sqaures to move to and make as many queens as possible... I have never hand anyone who plays on till mate using this method :D

Intuition
04-04-2008, 01:52 PM
This is probably not the right thread to discuss this,

but I don't think it warrants its own thread and Howie won't get many replies anyway but,

how do you like your knights ?

I always turn mine in towards the royalty at the start of the game.

Some people point them forward.

facing to the right, they have great presence this way

MichaelBaron
04-04-2008, 02:44 PM
when an opponent refuses to resign i like to take everything untill they have a lone king, give it only 2 possible sqaures to move to and make as many queens as possible... I have never hand anyone who plays on till mate using this method :D

Just wait till you get to play Solo one day :). You will see that even some IMs play on. Whether it is ethical or not is another problem.

Intuition
04-04-2008, 03:11 PM
Just wait till you get to play Solo one day :). You will see that even some IMs play on. Whether it is ethical or not is another problem.

well i guess it is unfair for a player to be forced to resign any position before mate so I guess it is ethical to play till mate in a strict sense, whether is scores you any mates or a good chess reputation is a different question :)

Kevin Bonham
04-04-2008, 04:32 PM
when an opponent refuses to resign i like to take everything untill they have a lone king, give it only 2 possible sqaures to move to and make as many queens as possible...

Making as many knights or bishops as possible is more fun and with less chance of stalemate (so long as you are able to checkmate with them. :lol: )

Garvinator
04-04-2008, 11:30 PM
I think this has been discussed previously, but I thought I would ask again and see what the current opinions are:

What do you think the minimum standard of dress should be at chess tournaments?

CameronD
05-04-2008, 12:39 AM
Absolute minumin should be what a reasonable person considers not offensive/ capable of giving offensive.

A lot of clothing is being sold with obscene logos which might be accepted by youth culture, but I find offensive. So the clash of age standards is a problem.

The disrepute law would cover dress at tournaments.

It would be good for all state associations to have stated minumin dress standards for rated events, stating that organizers can have higher standards on its conditions of entry.


The tournament and location would decide dress standards.

examples

- club could be casual dress (depends on location and club)
- w/e events have business dress standards
- Aus c/ship have formal standards

Basil
05-04-2008, 12:50 AM
It would be good for all state associations to have stated minumin dress standards for rated events, stating that organizers can have higher standards on its conditions of entry.
That is an excellent idea. It has the full weight of Howard 'Patzer' Duggan's support. Let's go.

As is this board is not an official communications device to the state associations or the ACF, I am not seeking propose such an idea here. However I am proposing that state and federal delegates encourage themselves to put this matter on their respective agendas immediately! :P

Kevin Bonham
05-04-2008, 01:05 AM
Absolute minumin should be what a reasonable person considers not offensive/ capable of giving offensive.

A lot of clothing is being sold with obscene logos which might be accepted by youth culture, but I find offensive.

We had a middle-aged Socialist Alliance type who used to visit our club (I don't think he ever actually joined) and sometimes wore a badge that read "unf*** the world" (except that in place of the *** it had the obvious letters.) No-one ever complained about it though; if they had I probably would have suggested that it be removed.

CameronD
05-04-2008, 01:08 AM
We had a middle-aged Socialist Alliance type who used to visit our club (I don't think he ever actually joined) and sometimes wore a badge that read "unf*** the world" (except that in place of the *** it had the obvious letters.) No-one ever complained about it though; if they had I probably would have suggested that it be removed.

I didn't know "unfair" was an unacceptable word. Would you remove it on political grounds

Kevin Bonham
05-04-2008, 01:42 AM
It would be good for all state associations to have stated minumin dress standards for rated events, stating that organizers can have higher standards on its conditions of entry.

Good for who and why?

I'm happy for organisers to include provisions about "reasonable standards of dress" (without defining this in any way) that they can use to deal with someone who turns up dressed indecently or in a manner that endangers others, but I don't see any need for specific restrictions above that level. If someone's attire is causing unwelcome (or, for that matter, welcome) distraction to an opponent, they can complain under the distraction rule.

If you restrict dress sense too much, you may:
* Price some players who are financially poor out of playing in the event
* Disadvantage players who feel physically uncomfortable in formal attire to the point that their performance suffers
* Annoy players who find unnecessary dress restrictions morally offensive, absurd, sexist or conformist (for examples)

I know another player who would certainly boycott any event that had a standard above neat casual. I'd probably join him.

Basil
05-04-2008, 01:47 AM
Just to clarify, I'm talking about shoes on, no singlets. RSL rules. Let's get this bit done first. Enough pissing about. No side-tracking. No getting bogged down. Gunner in da haus.

Carry on! Quickly. Let's go.

CameronD
05-04-2008, 01:47 AM
Good for who and why?

I'm happy for organisers to include provisions about "reasonable standards of dress" (without defining this in any way) that they can use to deal with someone who turns up dressed indecently or in a manner that endangers others, but I don't see any need for specific restrictions above that level. If someone's attire is causing unwelcome (or, for that matter, welcome) distraction to an opponent, they can complain under the distraction rule.

If you restrict dress sense too much, you may:
* Price some players who are financially poor out of playing in the event
* Disadvantage players who feel physically uncomfortable in formal attire to the point that their performance suffers
* Annoy players who find unnecessary dress restrictions morally offensive, absurd, sexist or conformist (for examples)

I know another player who would certainly boycott any event that had a standard above neat casual. I'd probably join him.

The minumin standards would have nothing to do with the 3 points above. I dont recall anyone who would have breached them. As long as the clothes aren"t offensive?capable of giving offence

Garvinator
05-04-2008, 01:48 AM
Good for who and why?

I'm happy for organisers to include provisions about "reasonable standards of dress" (without defining this in any way) that they can use to deal with someone who turns up dressed indecently or in a manner that endangers others, but I don't see any need for specific restrictions above that level. If someone's attire is causing unwelcome (or, for that matter, welcome) distraction to an opponent, they can complain under the distraction rule.

If you restrict dress sense too much, you may:
* Price some players who are financially poor out of playing in the event
* Disadvantage players who feel physically uncomfortable in formal attire to the point that their performance suffers
* Annoy players who find unnecessary dress restrictions morally offensive, absurd, sexist or conformist (for examples)

I know another player who would certainly boycott any event that had a standard above neat casual. I'd probably join him.
Interesting how a simple question ie mine, can send the conversation in a completely different direction to what was intended.

My main thought was regarding players and bare feet. I do not know why it is tolerated and thought I would get thoughts of others.

I see that GD has replied in a similar manner to mine.

CameronD
05-04-2008, 01:54 AM
couldn't care less about bare feet, the organizer may have legal/health and safety concerns though.

eg- a player steps on glass on the floor, the organizer might be liable etc.

Kevin Bonham
05-04-2008, 02:13 AM
The minumin standards would have nothing to do with the 3 points above. I dont recall anyone who would have breached them. As long as the clothes aren"t offensive?capable of giving offence

But you were suggesting "business dress" (whatever that is) for weekend events and "formal dress" for the Aus Champs - it was those suggestions that caused me to make those comments.


My main thought was regarding players and bare feet. I do not know why it is tolerated and thought I would get thoughts of others.

I don't think I've ever seen a player playing barefoot in a tournament, but that may have more to do with being in a colder climate.

Kevin Bonham
05-04-2008, 02:21 AM
I didn't know "unfair" was an unacceptable word. Would you remove it on political grounds

Humour sometimes transmits poorly on the internet - did you genuinely think the word was "unfair" or were you joking? If the former, want to buy a vowel? :lol:


Just to clarify, I'm talking about shoes on, no singlets. RSL rules. Let's get this bit done first.

I don't have a problem with organisers including RSL-rules type codes (indeed some events are played in venues that impose them whether the organisers want those rules or not.) I was going to say that "anything that wouldn't get you chucked out of a family pub" is a reasonable standard for the great majority of events before I got distracted by Cameron's proposals which I thought went much too far.

However, I see no role whatsoever for state (or any other) associations in codifying these (or any other) as minimum standards for a rateable event.

Far as I'm concerned if the members of a naturist (not naturalist, Virginia!) organisation want to hold a nude chess tournament among those willing to play in such condition, and submit it for rating then there is no reason why we should not rate it.

CameronD
05-04-2008, 02:24 AM
[QUOTE=Kevin Bonham]But you were suggesting "business dress" (whatever that is) for weekend events and "formal dress" for the Aus Champs - it was those suggestions that caused me to make those comments.

Those were for tournament organizers to consider in regard to their situation and location. eg. RSL clubs etc

Capablanca-Fan
05-04-2008, 10:16 AM
Any event that had a standard above neat casual. I'd probably join him.
Neat causal should be all we need, or RSL minimum. If sponsors pay a player appearance fees and insist on suit and tie, then that's between player and sponsor. It should never be imposed on players paying their own way.

Garvinator
05-04-2008, 10:43 AM
Neat causal should be all we need, or RSL minimum. If sponsors pay a player appearance fees and insist on suit and tie, then that's between player and sponsor. It should never be imposed on players paying their own way.
Oh please. Sorry Jono, but why should chess be any different from all other sports which have set dress standards, even when players are paying an entry fee? Chess is also one of the cheapest sports to be involved in, maybe this is part of the problem.

Kevin Bonham
05-04-2008, 11:39 AM
Oh please. Sorry Jono, but why should chess be any different from all other sports which have set dress standards, even when players are paying an entry fee? Chess is also one of the cheapest sports to be involved in, maybe this is part of the problem.

Many of the amateur-level sports that have specified dress standards have them because the players play in teams so that a uniform is necessary to tell the players apart.

There are other cases where specified footwear, for instance, is necessary to avoid damage to the grounds, and I expect that if people turned up to the bowls green wearing mohawks and day-glo orange it could be slightly distracting for the other players to catch a glimpse of such apparel for the first time just as they were about to have their turn.

So what are some other examples of amateur-level sports that impose dress codes and what are they?

Garrett
05-04-2008, 12:24 PM
Just to clarify, I'm talking about shoes on, no singlets. RSL rules. Let's get this bit done first. Enough pissing about. No side-tracking. No getting bogged down. Gunner in da haus.

Carry on! Quickly. Let's go.

This is an interesting discussion.

I openly admit that I have kicked off my shoes on occasion on a hot day at a chess tournament and hereby apologise for any offence as there was certainly been none intended.

I have also seen very respectable adults play without shoes as well. I didn't give it a second thought, I'm just a 'one knife and one fork' sort of bloke.

Now - having said that let me know say this (I'll give the only HCD I've ever been given to who first says who I'm quoting without changing the direction of the thread).

After some thought I realise I would probably not kick my shoes off at the Brisbane Club club (or State Library) because the feel of the place impies 'RSL' rules. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I can't recall being shoeless at these venues.

The venue where I can recall kicking my shoes off recently was non air-conditioned, had disgusting toilets that looked and smelt like they hadn't been cleaned in weeks, and had a boxing tent being set up outside. I felt I was being respectful enough by keeping a shirt on over my blue singlet.

This is in no way meant to demean organisers who do a very good job, but if dress codes are expected then perhaps something could be said (or written).

cheers
Garrett.

road runner
05-04-2008, 12:36 PM
I think this has been discussed previously, but I thought I would ask again and see what the current opinions are:

What do you think the minimum standard of dress should be at chess tournaments?
Shoes would be a good start.

Garrett
05-04-2008, 12:43 PM
I think this has been discussed previously, but I thought I would ask again and see what the current opinions are:

What do you think the minimum standard of dress should be at chess tournaments?

In accordance with the venue.

CameronD
05-04-2008, 07:11 PM
Many of the amateur-level sports that have specified dress standards have them because the players play in teams so that a uniform is necessary to tell the players apart.

There are other cases where specified footwear, for instance, is necessary to avoid damage to the grounds, and I expect that if people turned up to the bowls green wearing mohawks and day-glo orange it could be slightly distracting for the other players to catch a glimpse of such apparel for the first time just as they were about to have their turn.

So what are some other examples of amateur-level sports that impose dress codes and what are they?

Going through the dress codes of other sports that weren't required for team identification that I've played.

- Lawn Bowls
2 Pages of regulations going down to sock colors. Women need permission from the umpire to remove their hat.

- Tennis
Strict clothing restrictions (not including shoes)


Other sports
- Cricket
Strict clothing standards (all white)

Lots of other sports have minumin dress standards

Axiom
05-04-2008, 08:05 PM
Going through the dress codes of other sports that weren't required for team identification that I've played.

- Lawn Bowls
2 Pages of regulations going down to sock colors. Women need permission from the umpire to remove their hat.

- Tennis
Strict clothing restrictions (not including shoes)


Other sports
- Cricket
Strict clothing standards (all white)

Lots of other sports have minumin dress standards
Golf too , is an obvious one , which further adds to the undermining of jono's argument that paying to play excludes one from dress requirements.

Kevin Bonham
05-04-2008, 08:11 PM
Golf too , is an obvious one , which further adds to the undermining of jono's argument that paying to play excludes one from dress requirements.

Aside from footwear, what are the restrictions at a typical golf course?

Rincewind
05-04-2008, 08:18 PM
Aside from footwear, what are the restrictions at a typical golf course?

Not sure if you would call RQ is a typical golf course but their dress code sounds run of the mill...

http://www.rqgolf.com.au/guests/golf/dress.mhtml

Axiom
05-04-2008, 08:20 PM
Aside from footwear, what are the restrictions at a typical golf course?
collared shirts

Garvinator
05-04-2008, 08:36 PM
Aside from footwear, what are the restrictions at a typical golf course?
Almost all golf courses are strict. My closest golf club: Keperra:


MEN'S DRESS CODE

Fashion, colour and good taste are pre-requisites inherent in any golf club dress code and Keperra members and guests are expected to reflect them in the various club settings. Menís and Junior Boys dress code consists of appropriate golf attire at all times. Shirts, slacks or tailored shorts and shoes are to be worn on Club property.

* Shirts must have collars (turn down, turtle or mock-turtle) and sleeves and must remain tucked inside slacks and shorts at all times. Only shirts designed specifically for the purpose may be worn outside shorts or trousers.
* Singlets, tank tops and tee shirts are not permitted on the Course or in the Clubhouse.
* Slacks, trousers and shorts must be tailored and of good repair. Outside pockets on shorts are acceptable.
* No denim or imitation of same on the course. Dress jeans and denim shorts are allowed in the Clubhouse.
* Track pants, board shorts, frayed denim shorts and sweat pants are unacceptable.
* Socks must be worn on the course at all times. Predominately white socks with shorts.
* Clothing must not display pretentious advertising motifs.
* Golf caps must be worn with the cap peak forward.
* The use of soft spikes is encouraged on the course. Soft spikes are permitted in the main bar area.
* Neat and tidy footwear must be worn in the Clubhouse at all times. Deck shoes and casual shoes worn without socks are acceptable footwear in the Clubhouse with conforming shorts.
* Thongs and sandals are not permitted on the Course or in the Clubhouse.
* The Dress Rules of the Club apply equally to Visitors as to Members. Members inviting visitors are responsible for their visitorsí dress and conduct.
* Dress Requirements notices are conveniently displayed in the Clubhouse and Golf Shop.
* Persons not correctly attired will be required to leave the Course or Clubhouse.

LADIES DRESS CODE

Fashion, colour and good taste are pre-requisites inherent in any golf club dress code and Keperra members and guests are expected to reflect them in the various club settings. Ladies and Junior Girls dress code consists of appropriate golf attire at all times. Shirts, slacks, skirts or tailored shorts and shoes are to be worn on Club property.

* Skirts must be no shorter than 7" (18 cms) from the ground when kneeling.
* Tailored shorts and tailored slacks are permitted but no drawstrings.
* Shorts may be worn in preference to skirts but must be no shorter than 7" (18 cms) from the ground when kneeling.
* Shirts with collars must be worn and tucked in unless specifically tailored with a fitted basque. Backless, singlet-type, tube tops or sun tops are not permitted.
* Tracksuits are not permitted.
* Footwear must be golf shoes (with soft spikes) or a tidy alternative to be worn. Thongs or thong-type sandals on the course is prohibited.

These standards are set for the betterment of the club and must be adhered to by players and their guests appearing on the course or practice fairway.

NB. Where a player disputes whether he or she is correctly attired, the Secretary/ Manager or the starter are the sole arbiters and their decision is to be adhered to.

Denis_Jessop
05-04-2008, 08:39 PM
The Federal Golf Club, Canberra, http://www.fgc.com.au/members/dresscode.mhtml is pretty much the same though some other local clubs are a bit less strict, I think.

DJ

Garvinator
05-04-2008, 08:41 PM
So what are some other examples of amateur-level sports that impose dress codes and what are they?
Golf has been provided by Axiom, RW and myself.

Snooker, Billiards in competition play is trousers, collared polo type shirt and dress shoes. Collared shirts, ties and vests for important tournaments.

I would say that every sport has a dress code of some sport. FWIW, I am only talking about wearing of closed shoes ie sandshoes, joggers and the like.

Axiom
05-04-2008, 08:49 PM
I am willing to comprimise my pure libertarian philosophy to accommodate chess.
I just want us to play the game , and lift chess , by whatever means possible.
If it takes monkey suits to entice the sponsor , then so be it .

Chess may need to prostitute itself just a tiny bit , it may be the ultimate analysis.

But is this price too high ?
Or is it so wrong to package and market the product ?
...to sell it with the same incisiveness of that of a grandmaster ?

Kevin Bonham
05-04-2008, 08:52 PM
Clothing must not display pretentious advertising motifs.

Is there such a thing as an unpretentious advertising motif?

Garvinator
05-04-2008, 09:15 PM
Is there such a thing as an unpretentious advertising motif?
Where is this from?

Axiom
05-04-2008, 09:18 PM
Is there such a thing as an unpretentious advertising motif?
subliminal advertising ?

Kevin Bonham
05-04-2008, 09:29 PM
Where is this from?

The bit I quoted was in the Keperra Dress Code that you posted.

Garvinator
05-04-2008, 09:31 PM
The bit I quoted was in the Keperra Dress Code that you posted.
Have no idea of what Keperra defines pretentious as in this context. I have never tested the limits of it ;)

Kevin Bonham
06-04-2008, 07:56 PM
There was an article on the front page of the Sunday Age today suggesting that golf clubs were notorious for stuffiness and obsession with dress codes (and pointing to the issue of declining membership at golf clubs, although no causal link was drawn between these issues.)

Basil
06-04-2008, 08:01 PM
There was an article on the front page of the Sunday Age today suggesting that golf clubs were notorious for stuffiness and obsession with dress codes (and pointing to the issue of declining membership at golf clubs, although no causal link was drawn between these issues.)
I doubt that this has anything to do with the wearing of footwear. More than likely the stuffiness is too far the other way.

Kevin Bonham
06-04-2008, 08:20 PM
I doubt that this has anything to do with the wearing of footwear.

Me too. Footwear is one thing a golf course has an extremely valid reason to regulate - a far more valid reason than does chess!

Whether there is any remotely defensible case for regulating virtually everything else a player wears on a golf course to such a degree is unknown to me.

Garvinator
06-04-2008, 08:35 PM
There was an article on the front page of the Sunday Age today suggesting that golf clubs were notorious for stuffiness and obsession with dress codes (and pointing to the issue of declining membership at golf clubs, although no causal link was drawn between these issues.)
The issue of declining golf memberships is real, but to say that it has to do with the dress regs is drawing a long bow.

It has more to do with the cost of a golf membership, golf clubs, time people have available etc etc.

I would think that dress regs would be a long way down the list when a person can get onto most courses in a collared t shirt, tailored shorts/trousers and golf shoes/sandshoes.

Also to join a golf club there is a nomination fee, which can be either cheap or expensive depending on the club. Out of all the golf concepts, this is the one that I struggle to understand most of all. Why should it cost you extra to join a golf club, especially when most clubs are having difficulty filling their membership quota each year?

Denis_Jessop
06-04-2008, 10:47 PM
The Federal Golf Club, Canberra, http://www.fgc.com.au/members/dresscode.mhtml is pretty much the same though some other local clubs are a bit less strict, I think.


DJ


Sorry about the non-working URL - the text is:


Responsibility

The General Manager, Club Professional and designated employees have the responsibility of ensuring members, invited guests and visitors meet an acceptable standard of dress. The dress of members, invited guests and visitors must at all times be neat and tidy. Any members, invited guests and visitors whose standard of dress does not meet an acceptable standard will be denied access to the course and/or the clubhouse.



Men on the Course and Environs

* Clothing must be neat, tidy and appropriate to golf.
* Trousers and shorts must be worn with a belt. Shorts must be accompanied by long socks or short socks predominantly white.
* Denim wear, drawstring, elastic top trousers or track suits are not permitted.
* Collared shirts with sleeves, skivvies, turtleneck tops must be tucked in at all times, unless specifically designed to be worn loose.
* Clothing must not display excessive advertising or offensive slogans.



Women on the Course and Environs

* Clothing must be neat, tidy and appropriate to golf.
* Slacks, shirts, shorts, three quarter length slacks and culottes, are acceptable.
* Denim wear of any kind not permitted.
* Collared shirts with sleeves, blouses, skivvies, turtleneck tops must be tucked in at all times, unless specifically designed to be worn loose.
* Socks must be predominantly white.
* Clothing must not display excessive advertising or offensive slogans.

Footwear

Golf shoes are preferred for play (soft spikes preferred). > Running shoes/joggers may be permitted under special circumstances. > Bare or stocking feet and thongs are not permitted on the course or the clubhouse.

Clubhouse

Golfing apparel, neat and tidy denim and fashion sandals (not thong types) are acceptable. Golf shoes may only be worn in designated areas of the club house.

DJ

Ian Rout
07-04-2008, 10:08 AM
On the rare occasions that I have played golf (using the word "played" loosely) I have had no problems meeting dress standards, so they can't have been too severe. As I recall the rules for the drinking areas were similar to most clubs and for the course the bits that were stressed related to footwear that could cause damage.

This has been on Canberra's less prestigious courses, not e.g. Federal.

As far as this and the 37 other polls go I think players should dress presentably. Many events are held on licenced premises, in Canberra this includes Doeberl and Vikings weekenders and Tuggeranong Chess Club, which have dress standards which can reasonably be adopted, and similar would generally apply elsewhere. This should be considered in context however, for instance Street Chess probably has maximum dress standards.

I also think that acceptable standards would probably mean wearing shoes in general though sandals would possibly be sufficient, and that organisers and arbiters have a right to impose and enforce standards. State federations and ACF have more important things to do and I would expect them to give priority to those things, in any case they don't have the resources to maintain flying squads of shoe inspectors. Anyone who is motivated to translate that into the varying fine print of the questions is welcome to count in a vote on my behalf.

Denis_Jessop
07-04-2008, 01:02 PM
On the rare occasions that I have played golf (using the word "played" loosely) I have had no problems meeting dress standards, so they can't have been too severe. As I recall the rules for the drinking areas were similar to most clubs and for the course the bits that were stressed related to footwear that could cause damage.

This has been on Canberra's less prestigious courses, not e.g. Federal.

As far as this and the 37 other polls go I think players should dress presentably. Many events are held on licenced premises, in Canberra this includes Doeberl and Vikings weekenders and Tuggeranong Chess Club, which have dress standards which can reasonably be adopted, and similar would generally apply elsewhere. This should be considered in context however, for instance Street Chess probably has maximum dress standards.

I also think that acceptable standards would probably mean wearing shoes in general though sandals would possibly be sufficient, and that organisers and arbiters have a right to impose and enforce standards. State federations and ACF have more important things to do and I would expect them to give priority to those things, in any case they don't have the resources to maintain flying squads of shoe inspectors. Anyone who is motivated to translate that into the varying fine print of the questions is welcome to count in a vote on my behalf.

I agree on all counts. I think that the dress code at Federal GC is stricter than at some other canberra courses but even at Federal is you dress respectably you'll automatically fulfil the code, not to mention the gorgeous Nikki campbell (now a pro on the womwne's circuit) who appeared lat one afternoon on the practice putting green in front of the clubhouse in very short shorts without any complaints from the members :)

As for chess dress I feel that the forum is getting out of hand on this aspect of the game and risking becoming a joke like *******'s Forum. For what it's worth a player clumping with heavy boots on an uncarpeted floor is much worse (more annoying) than one in bare feet or socks. But I must say that in many years of attendance at chess clubs, I haven't noticed many, if any, bare-footed players. Let's get back to more serious topics like "Which way should my Knights face?" :D

DJ

Garvinator
07-04-2008, 01:18 PM
But I must say that in many years of attendance at chess clubs, I haven't noticed many, if any, bare-footed players
I guess there must be a difference between the different localities. Up here I see it at almost every chess tournament and I would imagine Howard does as well.

Ian Rout
07-04-2008, 02:02 PM
I guess there must be a difference between the different localities. Up here I see it at almost every chess tournament and I would imagine Howard does as well.
Garvin is probably right. Canberra has only two-and-a-bit seasons. In one of the seasons being barefoot for any length of time would cost you a number of toes and in summer there isn't a lot of chess played. Even Sydney would have a relatively brief shoeless season, plus the urban terrain isn't really suitable for it. It could be that this is an issue mainly relevant to one State.

Basil
07-04-2008, 02:24 PM
IN a hurry. Will be back to put a fire-cracker under under Denis and Kev!

Kevin Bonham
07-04-2008, 02:27 PM
For what it's worth a player clumping with heavy boots on an uncarpeted floor is much worse (more annoying) than one in bare feet or socks.

Or a player wearing heavy boots on a carpeted floor when those heavy boots are caked in mud - not annyoying to other players necessarily, but a serious nuisance to the organisers.

Garvinator
07-04-2008, 05:01 PM
Garvin is probbaly right. Canberra has only two-and-a-bit seasons. In one of the seasons being barefoot for any length of time would cost you a number of toes and in summer there isn't a lot of chess played. Even Sydney would have a relatively brief shoeless season, plus the urban terrain isn't really suitable for it. It could be that this is an issue mainly relevant to one State.
There is also the type of venues the clubs/tournaments are held in.

Some of the tournaments up here are held in air-conditioned venues and some are not.

road runner
07-04-2008, 07:40 PM
I was recently invited to a play golf (something I basically never do) with the following dress rules:
- collared shirt
- closed shoes
- long socks pulled up to the knees.

Check. Check. WTF is this high school? No thanks.

Axiom
07-04-2008, 07:44 PM
I was recently invited to a play golf (something I basically never do) with the following dress rules:
- collared shirt
- closed shoes
- long socks pulled up to the knees.

Check. Check. WTF is this high school? No thanks.
:clap: :clap:
I too have eschewed that particular deviant variance.

Garvinator
07-04-2008, 07:54 PM
I was recently invited to a play golf (something I basically never do) with the following dress rules:
- collared shirt
- closed shoes
- long socks pulled up to the knees.

Check. Check. WTF is this high school? No thanks.
Mind if I ask, which course? I have played at a lot of the courses in Brisbane at one time or another and have not yet seen the socks pulled up one being enforced.

road runner
07-04-2008, 07:56 PM
Mind if I ask, which course? I have played at a lot of the courses in Brisbane at one time or another and have not yet seen the socks pulled up one being enforced.I don't recall sorry, it was over a month ago.

Denis_Jessop
07-04-2008, 08:43 PM
I was recently invited to a play golf (something I basically never do) with the following dress rules:
- collared shirt
- closed shoes
- long socks pulled up to the knees.

Check. Check. WTF is this high school? No thanks.

For some reason there seems to be a thing about long socks with shorts. I never wear shorts when playing golf but then the Canberra climate allows that though many do play in shorts. The collared shirt is no problem as a polo shirt with a collar is very comfortable and they come in all weights. If you are going to play golf in proper golf shoes, which is very advisable, closed ones are inevitable. They also protect your feet when you (again inevitably) go into the deep rough :)

DJ

Bob1
17-04-2008, 05:53 PM
go into the deep rough :)

DJ
I always wondered why they called those big metal clubs "woods".
But having spent half a day looking for balls in the trees - It was suddenly very clear. I want a No3 chainsaw next time.

Garvinator
18-04-2008, 12:18 AM
I always wondered why they called those big metal clubs "woods".
But having spent half a day looking for balls in the trees - It was suddenly very clear. I want a No3 chainsaw next time.
Bob, they are called woods because that is exactly where you will end up each time you use one ;)

Kevin Bonham
21-04-2008, 12:14 AM
This is in the FIDE handbook concerning dress standards for top-level tournaments:


The Commission on Chess Publication, Information and Statistics (CHIPS) stresses the need for all chess players to take more care in their personal appearance. The image of the chess player should be a dignified one, and dressing properly would not only show respect for the game, but also to sponsors, potential or otherwise, to make it worth their while to spend their money.

For example, some federations have barred slippers, sleeveless T-shirts and vests in their tournaments. Those with unkempt and greasy hair should be admonished, as well as those wearing old or torn jeans and battered attire generally.

(On the basis of recent experience with inaccurate Handbook contents, I make no guarantee that this in any way resembles actual and/or current FIDE policy, or that FIDE would administer it on that basis if it did.)

Allan Menham
02-01-2009, 01:08 PM
This is probably not the right thread to discuss this,

but I don't think it warrants its own thread and Howie won't get many replies anyway but,

how do you like your knights ?

I always turn mine in towards the royalty at the start of the game.

Some people point them forward.

I consider that Knights should always point forward

Allan Menham
02-01-2009, 01:15 PM
But you were suggesting "business dress" (whatever that is) for weekend events and "formal dress" for the Aus Champs - it was those suggestions that caused me to make those comments.



I don't think I've ever seen a player playing barefoot in a tournament, but that may have more to do with being in a colder climate.

I have

ER
02-01-2009, 03:44 PM
I consider that Knights should always point forward

I always place my Knights pointed at the direction of my opponent's King. It is not an indication of aggression or anything, I just use it for orientation reasons. It does not work when I play against the computer though.
CAGLES

Kaitlin
02-01-2009, 08:09 PM
do you also stand your Rooks upside down :rolleyes:

and are u allowed too (:evil: thoughts) .. does the rule book just say you have to start with your Rooks on the right square and just assume you will put them the right way up .. rofl

Bill Gletsos
02-01-2009, 09:03 PM
do you also stand your Rooks upside down :rolleyes:

and are u allowed too (:evil: thoughts) .. does the rule book just say you have to start with your Rooks on the right square and just assume you will put them the right way up .. roflUnder the laws of chess an upside down rook is just a rook.

Basil
02-01-2009, 09:07 PM
Does that mean that under the laws of chess, the laws of chess are just under?

Please forgive this post. I'm doing the very best I can to delay my responses to the tedium that is Cruelty To Animals which I will do this weekend.

ER
03-01-2009, 06:04 PM
if you place the rule book upside down on the board yeah also yeah if you place the book under the table :P

chirag09
03-01-2009, 07:43 PM
What?

Basil
03-01-2009, 07:54 PM
What?
An upside down rook under the laws of chess. Clear as a bell (inverted of course).

chirag09
03-01-2009, 07:56 PM
Chess laws, chess laws,

But who starts the clock?

chesstash
03-01-2009, 08:01 PM
ummm I think its black

MichaelBaron
07-01-2009, 12:53 PM
I always place my Knights pointed at the direction of my opponent's King. It is not an indication of aggression or anything, I just use it for orientation reasons. It does not work when I play against the computer though.
CAGLES

a knight on d5 is a heavy knight. But a knight on b1 is just a knight :)

ER
07-01-2009, 06:09 PM
a knight on d5 is a heavy knight. But a knight on b1 is just a knight :)

lol classic!!!