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View Full Version : Victorian Championship 2007 play-off match



Leonid Sandler
08-02-2008, 08:51 PM
Defending champion Igor Goldenberg will play with white pieces against Mirko Rujevic in the first of four games match for the Victorian Championship title. Both players came equal first in Victorian Championship November last year.First game scheduled February 16 at Box Hill Chess Club @ 2-00pm.
Next games will be played at the same venue February 17,23,24.Starting times 2-00pm.
Games will be transmitted live on BHCC website.
Leonid Sandler

Gringo
09-02-2008, 03:33 PM
Who to cheer for, Iggy or Murky..:eek:

ER
09-02-2008, 06:59 PM
Who to cheer for, Iggy or Murky..:eek:

I have barracked many a time for Mirko who I still believe is one of the most enterprising masters in Australia. In his good days he reminds me of Crvena Svezda (*) of the old times! However, this time I go for Igor. He is a real champion and I want to see him in the national team too!
Cheers and good luck!
(*) If you know nothing about Crvena Svezda by now you 'll never learn!:P Cheers and good luck

ER
09-02-2008, 07:06 PM
First game scheduled February 16 at Box Hill Chess Club @ 2-00pm.... Games will be transmitted live on BHCC website.
Leonid Sandler

Thanks Leonid!
Any ideas to make this a very special occassion? I will try to organise some TV coverage, I can't promise anything but I will try!
Cheers and good luck!

eclectic
09-02-2008, 07:11 PM
the playoff ought to consist of a match which contains at least one game played at each of the clubs registered with chess victoria ... how many games would that be, hk? ;)

Garvinator
09-02-2008, 07:18 PM
the playoff ought to consist of a match which contains at least one game played at each of the clubs registered with chess victoria ... how many games would that be, hk? ;)
nah, it should consist of at least one game played at each of the clubs that turned up to the last agm ;)

ER
09-02-2008, 07:45 PM
the playoff ought to consist of a match which contains at least one game played at each of the clubs registered with chess victoria ... how many games would that be, hk? ;)

hmmmmm lemme think, I don't know :P
Cagles!

ER
09-02-2008, 07:46 PM
nah, it should consist of at least one game played at each of the clubs that turned up to the last agm ;)

ooops, Garry was there too, so it might end up in Sydney! :hmm:
cheers and good luck!

Rhubarb
10-02-2008, 07:48 PM
Leonid, is the playoff to be FIDE rated? You'll probably want to discuss this with the rest of the new CV.

Unfortunately, as of January 1, FIDE has raised the fees for matches and round-robins (Swisses remain the same at 1 euro per FIDE-rated player plus each player who makes a block).

A typical RR or match with average rating under 2300 has been increased from 30€ to 50€ ($81), but this match between Igor and Murko will cost 100€ ($162) which is of course exorbitant for just four games. Anyway, let me know your decision.

See 12.2 at http://www.fide.com/official/handbook.asp?level=A03

Greg

P.S. I may have failed to tell Gerry and the outgoing CV that last year's playoff between Igor and Dusan would cost more than the minimum fee at the time (30€), not noticing that the two players averaged over 2300. My apologies for that.

Garvinator
10-02-2008, 08:38 PM
Unfortunately, as of January 1, FIDE has raised the fees for matches and round-robins (Swisses remain the same at 1 euro per FIDE-rated player plus each player who makes a block).

A typical RR or match with average rating under 2300 has been increased from 30 to 50 ($81), but this match between Igor and Murko will cost 100 ($162) which is of course exorbitant for just four games. Anyway, let me know your decision.

See 12.2 at http://www.fide.com/official/handbook.asp?level=A03 What a rip-off!!!!

Kevin Bonham
10-02-2008, 09:38 PM
What a rip-off!!!!

Agreed.

Charge to rate this four-game playoff: FIDE: $162, ACF: $2.

A rare instance where I'd recommend an event not be rated in a particular system simply because the cost is such a joke. Even 30 euro was extortionate. :rolleyes:

MichaelBaron
11-02-2008, 05:42 PM
Agreed.

Charge to rate this four-game playoff: FIDE: $162, ACF: $2.

A rare instance where I'd recommend an event not be rated in a particular system simply because the cost is such a joke. Even 30 euro was extortionate. :rolleyes:

By making the even fide-rated, we increase its significance dramatically!:hmm:

Leonid Sandler
11-02-2008, 07:13 PM
Hello Greg,
Victorian Championship 2007 playoff match which will starts February 16, 2008 will be Fide rated.
I had a look at conditions of Vic Championship 2007 and it clearly says that tournament is(was) Fide rated.There are a provision for the playoff match which is clearly continuation of the Championship 2007.
Therefore match will be Fide rated.I have to agree with you about the rating fees its absurd but you can do something about it.May I suggest to explain our friends from Fide that they should charge us using 2007 rating fees as play off match is for 2007 Vic Championship.If you want me to help you with officials in Elista please let me know
Leonid Sandler

Bill Gletsos
12-02-2008, 01:26 PM
May I suggest to explain our friends from Fide that they should charge us using 2007 rating fees as play off match is for 2007 Vic Championship.That would seem to be totally irrelevant as the fees are applicable as of when the event is actually playedwhich in this case is 2008 not 2007.

Rhubarb
14-02-2008, 09:15 AM
Hi Leonid,

The ACF won't be going into bat for you on this occasion.

Either pay the FIDE fee (presumably on behalf of the new CV), or don't.

Let me know before game 1.

Regards,
Greg

pax
14-02-2008, 05:30 PM
By making the even fide-rated, we increase its significance dramatically!:hmm:
Why?

Igor_Goldenberg
14-02-2008, 09:01 PM
Why?

Because it means another $162 down the drain

Leonid Sandler
15-02-2008, 06:20 PM
Play-off match for the Victorian Champion title 2007 will starts Saturday February 23 at 2-00pm.Venue Box Hill Chess Club.

ER
15-02-2008, 11:45 PM
an interview with Igor re Victorian Championship will be published shortly. I am in two minds, should I publish it here? or in the related "an interview" thread? Any suggestions welcome!
Cheers and good luck

ER
15-02-2008, 11:47 PM
I think I will do it in the "an interview" thread to keep up with the tradition.
Cheers and good luck

Publicist
16-02-2008, 05:20 AM
Unfortunately Mirko is not available for the games scheduled for this weekend as he has been called away to Sydney

Davidflude
16-02-2008, 11:06 AM
the playoff ought to consist of a match which contains at least one game played at each of the clubs registered with chess victoria ... how many games would that be, hk? ;)

I think that the play off should take place at venues as agreed to by the players and the Director of Play.

Rhubarb
17-02-2008, 12:44 AM
Just to add to a couple of comments to my earlier posts in this thread, which may have been a little terse and not very helpful:


Victorian Championship 2007 playoff match which will starts February 16, 2008 will be Fide rated.
I had a look at conditions of Vic Championship 2007 and it clearly says that tournament is(was) Fide rated.There are a provision for the playoff match which is clearly continuation of the Championship 2007.
Therefore match will be Fide rated.I have to agree with you about the rating fees its absurd but you can do something about it.May I suggest to explain our friends from Fide that they should charge us using 2007 rating fees as play off match is for 2007 Vic Championship.If you want me to help you with officials in Elista please let me know The playoff as organised is in a different year, has a different rating list applied to the players, requires an additional registration, and is also more than 90 days after the start of the tournament proper. All of these reasons mean that it must be considered a different event as far as FIDE is concerned, and is therefore subject to the fees in place for those dates. If the playoff immediately followed the tournament proper, that would be one thing, but even then there would be numerous problems with the registration and reporting of the event in an all-in-one fashion.


Either pay the FIDE fee (presumably on behalf of the new CV), or don't.This would have better read: please commit to paying the FIDE fees on behalf of the new CV (or don't).


P.S. I may have failed to tell Gerry and the outgoing CV that last year's playoff between Igor and Dusan would cost more than the minimum fee at the time (30€), not noticing that the two players averaged over 2300. My apologies for that.Actually for this playoff for the 2006 Vic Championship between Igor Goldenberg and Dusan Stojic (played in Feb 2007), the fee was the 30 euros minimum since the average rating was below 2325, the minimum threshold at the time before the extra charges kicked in.

CameronD
17-02-2008, 02:35 AM
The organizing body should have published when and where the playoffs be held (if required) before entries were taken, and schedule them straight after the tournament.

Leonid Sandler
23-02-2008, 10:03 AM
First game of the 4 games play-off match between I.Goldenberg and M.Rujevic will be played today at BHCC.Spectators are welcome.
The match will be FIDE rated.

Rhubarb
23-02-2008, 12:26 PM
First game of the 4 games play-off match between I.Goldenberg and M.Rujevic will be played today at BHCC.Spectators are welcome.
The match will be FIDE rated.Are games 3 and 4 now scheduled for March 1 and 2? That is, a week after the dates mentioned in post 1 of this thread?

Davidflude
23-02-2008, 02:57 PM
The games is in progress and can be watched on the Box Hill Chess Club website.

Look at Autumn Cup and click on "watch the game live"

MichaelBaron
23-02-2008, 06:32 PM
Game 1 ended strangely. Looked like a dead draw at one stage:hmm:

Rhubarb
25-02-2008, 04:53 PM
Are games 3 and 4 now scheduled for March 1 and 2? That is, a week after the dates mentioned in post 1 of this thread?Bueller? ... Bueller? ... Bueller? ... Bueller? ...Bueller? ...

Publicist
26-02-2008, 02:09 AM
Games 3 and 4 are scheduled for Saturday March 1 and Sunday March 2 starting at 2 PM. Games will again be broadcast live from the Box Hill Chess Club web site. The score to date is Rujevic 1.5 Goldenberg 0.5. Both games played have been very interesting and well worth the trouble of the broadcast

Rhubarb
26-02-2008, 08:06 AM
Games 3 and 4 are scheduled for Saturday March 1 and Sunday March 2 starting at 2 PM. Games will again be broadcast live from the Box Hill Chess Club web site. The score to date is Rujevic 1.5 Goldenberg 0.5. Both games played have been very interesting and well worth the trouble of the broadcastThanks, and believe me a lot of us appreciate the live broadcast, even if we don't always say so. :)

Basil
26-02-2008, 10:03 AM
Thanks, and believe me a lot of us appreciate the live broadcast, even if we don't always say so. :)
I'd like to second that.

Rhubarb
26-02-2008, 10:40 AM
Just one other thing I forgot about: if game 4 is not required, it cannot be FIDE-rated, regardless of whether it is played or not.

Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, the exact wording of B0206.5 (http://www.fide.com/official/handbook.asp?level=B0206) uses "may not" rather than cannot - I'll take it under advisement.

Basil
26-02-2008, 10:49 AM
if game 4 is not required, it cannot be FIDE-rated, regardless of whether it is played or not.
:lol: OK Spank me.

Leonid Sandler
01-03-2008, 07:15 PM
The last deciding game of at play-off match for Victorian Champion 2007 title will be played tomorrow @2-00pm at BHCC.Spectators are welcome.
LIve coverage of the game will be available on BHCC website.

Metro
02-03-2008, 12:06 AM
The last deciding game of at play-off match for Victorian Champion 2007 title will be played tomorrow @2-00pm at BHCC.Spectators are welcome.
LIve coverage of the game will be available on BHCC website.

Game 4 makes for an exciting conclusion.Will we see fireworks? (Igor says don't worry about exciting game,I just want to win the darn thing:rolleyes: ).

Kevin Bonham
02-03-2008, 12:29 AM
Game 3 was just about one-way traffic. 11...e5 is very rarely played and I didn't see anything from Rujevic to justify it being played more often in this game. By 21...Nh5? Black had a bad position anyway.

Leonid Sandler
02-03-2008, 07:09 PM
Play-off match for Victorian Champion 2007 title between Igor Goldenberg and Mirko Rujevic ended in a draw .Under condition of the match both players share the title.Congratulations for both players!
For Igor it is a third Victorian Champion title and for Mirko very first.

Basil
02-03-2008, 07:22 PM
Yup well done boys - espesh Igor though!

eclectic
02-03-2008, 07:22 PM
i'm going to stick my neck out here and ask some really stupid questions:

isn't the point of a playoff to determine a single winner?

if not then why bother having it?

why couldn't we have saved igor and mirko the trouble and declared them joint title holders last november?

we should at least be thankful their "playoff" wasn't held eighteen months after the event proper and in another state :whistle:

Metro
02-03-2008, 07:24 PM
Play-off match for Victorian Champion 2007 title between Igor Goldenberg and Mirko Rujevic ended in a draw .Under condition of the match both players share the title.Congratulations for both players!
For Igor it is a third Victorian Champion title and for Mirko very first.

Congratulations to Igor and Mirko:clap: :clap: :clap:


PS Mirko is 60+years of age

Metro
02-03-2008, 07:29 PM
we should at least be thankful their "playoff" wasn't held eighteen months after the event proper and in another state :whistle:

You can say that again!

Igor_Goldenberg
02-03-2008, 08:49 PM
i'm going to stick my neck out here and ask some really stupid questions:

isn't the point of a playoff to determine a single winner?

if not then why bother having it?

why couldn't we have saved igor and mirko the trouble and declared them joint title holders last november?

we should at least be thankful their "playoff" wasn't held eighteen months after the event proper and in another state :whistle:
I hope you at least had some entertainment :)

Metro
02-03-2008, 10:01 PM
isn't the point of a playoff to determine a single winner?

if not then why bother having it?

why couldn't we have saved igor and mirko the trouble and declared them joint title holders last november?



Essentially,practical reasons.
Most parties don't want a long,drawn-out,stressful affair.If a World Cup-type decider was adopted ie.rapid and blitz games,it would be a tough way to lose.

Kevin Bonham
02-03-2008, 10:23 PM
Sometimes playoffs are held when a title must be awarded, eg there is only one trophy or qualifying spot available.

When there is no reason that you need a single champion, then a playoff with the tie standing if the playoff is tied is an option. This means that if a weaker player has been fortunate with the draw and snuck through to an =1st, as sometimes happens in a Swiss especially if there are many draws on the top boards, then the playoff will sort out the pretender and maintain the integrity of the title.

If on the other hand two players tie who are reasonably close in strength, and a subsequent playoff fails to split them, then it makes more sense to say that the title is now shared than to split them by artificial means such as a blitz playoff.

I think it is a good arrangement in the circumstances.

Congratulations to the new co-champions! :clap:

Gringo
03-03-2008, 08:53 AM
Iggy Lives :eek:

MichaelBaron
03-03-2008, 11:28 AM
I must admit it is a bit unusual these days that playoff does not reveal a single winner. Usually if the match is drawn, rapid/blitz games are being played.

Congratulations to both Igor and Mirko :clap: . Mirko is going to turn 62 this year...and it is his first state title - what an incredible achievement. For Igor, it is his second title in a row - well done.

kveldulv
06-03-2008, 08:55 PM
I have just added three of the games to the BHCC Games Archive (http://www.boxhillchess.org.au/games). Can anyone who watched the games check to see if I have associated the correct Round with each of the games? Anyone happen to have the moves of the missing game? (Does not look like they were saved on the BHCC club computer.)