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Bill Gletsos
02-02-2008, 08:48 PM
Linares starts Feb 15th.

Who will win from:

Viswanathan Anand
Vassily Ivanchuk
Veselin Topalov
Peter Leko
Teymour Radjabov
Levon Aronian
Alexei Shirov
Magnus Carlsen

Intuition
04-02-2008, 01:29 PM
carlsen..if you can beat kramnik with black you have to stand a chance :)

eclectic
04-02-2008, 03:04 PM
Why hasn't Zhao been invited to play?

:owned:

:lol:

:eek:

Aaron Guthrie
04-02-2008, 05:24 PM
Do they force a clear winner at Linares?

littlesprout85
04-02-2008, 05:58 PM
Sprouty is voting for Anands for this master is starting to get into a rythem now- and is bringing the heat :o)

Sprout :)

Kevin Bonham
16-02-2008, 08:29 PM
round 1

Shirov 0-1 Anand
Topalov 1-0 Aronian
Carlsen draw Ivanchuk
Leko 1-0 Radjabov

Morelia games are on at 21:30 GMT which I think is 8:30 am our time.

Shark93
16-02-2008, 11:28 PM
round 1

Shirov 0-1 Anand
Topalov 1-0 Aronian
Carlsen draw Ivanchuk
Leko 1-0 Radjabov

Morelia games are on at 21:30 GMT which I think is 8:30 am our time.

They start at 7:00am Australian time, I was watching the chess.fm coverage of round 1 today :P. Not worth getting up till 8:30am anyway as that's when the games really start. I hope carlsen wins though he's been doing well lately.

Denis_Jessop
17-02-2008, 11:42 AM
I see that the Live Games scores on the official web site and those in ChessBase news differ. The web site shows the Shirov - Anand game finishing on move 25 while ChessBase news has the score going to move 30. Also, the site has Topalov - Aronian going to 37 moves while CBN has only 35 and the web site has Leko - Radjabov going to 37 moves and CBN only to 35. Odd?

But CBN also has some good photos of the players etc.

DJ

Denis_Jessop
17-02-2008, 11:51 AM
Round 2 results

Anand - Aronian 0 - 1
Radjabov - Topalov =
Shirov - Carlsen =
Ivanchuk - Leko ? (Chuky's clock shows "fh:agmin" - does that indicate a loss on time)

DJ

Kevin Bonham
17-02-2008, 05:15 PM
Anand - Aronian

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 0-0 8.c3 d5 9.exd5 Nxd5 10.Nxe5 Nxe5 11.Rxe5 c6 12.Re1 Bd6 13.g3 Re8 14.d4 Rxe1+ 15.Qxe1 Ra7 16.Be3 Re7 17.Nd2 Qe8 18.Nf1 h5 19.a4 Be6 20.Bd1 h4 21.axb5 axb5 22.Bf3 Bh3 23.Bxd5 cxd5 24.Qd1 f5 25.Bg5 Re4 26.Bxh4 Qg6 27.Bd8 f4 28.Qd3 Qh5 29.Nd2 Re2 30.Nf3 Re3 31.fxe3 Qxf3 32.Qc2 fxg3 33.hxg3 Qxg3+ 34.Kh1 Bf5 0-1

Alexrules01
17-02-2008, 08:22 PM
Why hasn't Zhao been invited to play?

:owned:

:lol:

:eek:
I dont think he's quite up there.... yet :cool:

And if Carlsen plays like he did in the last Super-GM tournament, I think he will win, even though getting started with 2 draws.

Kevin Bonham
18-02-2008, 01:15 AM
Ivanchuk - Leko ? (Chuky's clock shows "fh:agmin" - does that indicate a loss on time)

It probably indicates a glitch, since Ivanchuk won.

Capablanca-Fan
18-02-2008, 12:21 PM
Anand - Aronian

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 0-0 8.c3 d5 9.exd5 Nxd5 10.Nxe5 Nxe5 11.Rxe5 c6 12.Re1 Bd6 13.g3 Re8 14.d4 Rxe1+ 15.Qxe1 Ra7 16.Be3 Re7 17.Nd2 Qe8 18.Nf1 h5 19.a4 Be6 20.Bd1 h4 21.axb5 axb5 22.Bf3 Bh3 23.Bxd5 cxd5 24.Qd1 f5 25.Bg5 Re4 26.Bxh4 Qg6 27.Bd8 f4 28.Qd3 Qh5 29.Nd2 Re2 30.Nf3 Re3 31.fxe3 Qxf3 32.Qc2 fxg3 33.hxg3 Qxg3+ 34.Kh1 Bf5 0-1
Very nice game from Aronian, with a new plan in the Marshall, illustrating the dangers of Black's continued pressure. See GM Dorian Rogozenko's analysis (http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=4456). I didn't think 13. g3 has much independent significance because Black could transpose into the main lines by 13... Qd7 then Qh3, but Aronian's use of his QR to control the e-file is noteworthy.

Denis_Jessop
18-02-2008, 03:51 PM
It probably indicates a glitch, since Ivanchuk won.

Yes, it would seem so. They now also have the full score of the other game.

Here are the results of round three:

Round 3: Sunday, February 17th

Magnus Carlsen - Vishy Anand 0 - 1

Peter Leko - Alexei Shirov =

Veselin Topalov - Vassily Ivanchuk 1 - 0

Levon Aronian - Teimour Radjabov =

DJ

Adamski
18-02-2008, 11:19 PM
Anand - Aronian

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 0-0 8.c3 d5 9.exd5 Nxd5 10.Nxe5 Nxe5 11.Rxe5 c6 12.Re1 Bd6 13.g3 Re8 14.d4 Rxe1+ 15.Qxe1 Ra7 16.Be3 Re7 17.Nd2 Qe8 18.Nf1 h5 19.a4 Be6 20.Bd1 h4 21.axb5 axb5 22.Bf3 Bh3 23.Bxd5 cxd5 24.Qd1 f5 25.Bg5 Re4 26.Bxh4 Qg6 27.Bd8 f4 28.Qd3 Qh5 29.Nd2 Re2 30.Nf3 Re3 31.fxe3 Qxf3 32.Qc2 fxg3 33.hxg3 Qxg3+ 34.Kh1 Bf5 0-1Jono, did you notice this Black Marshall win by Arianne's boyfriend against the world champ?

Capablanca-Fan
19-02-2008, 02:08 AM
Jono, did you notice this Black Marshall win by Arianne's boyfriend against the world champ?
See two posts above yours ;)

Adamski
19-02-2008, 06:48 AM
:doh: Doh! I replied after seeing Kevin's post before I had seen yours, Jono. Thanks for the analysis link there! Moral of the story - always read the latest posts before replying...Great win though!

Kevin Bonham
20-02-2008, 10:14 PM
Shirov defeats Topalov!

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 6.Ndb5 d6 7.Bg5 a6 8.Na3 b5 9.Nd5 Be7 10.Bxf6 Bxf6 11.c3 Bg5 12.Nc2 0-0 13.a4 bxa4 14.Rxa4 a5 15.Bc4 Bd7 16.0-0 Ne7 17.Ra3 Nxd5 18.Bxd5 Rb8 19.b4 axb4 20.Nxb4 Qb6 21.Qe2 Bb5 22.Bc4 Rfc8 23.Bxb5 Qxb5 24.Qxb5 Rxb5 25.Rd1 g6 26.g3 Kg7 27.Nd5 Rc4 28.Ra7 Bd8 29.Rd7 Ba5 30.Re1 Bb6 31.Nxb6 Rxb6 32.Re3 Rc8 33.Rf3 Rf8 34.Kf1 g5 35.h4 g4 36.Rf5 h6 37.Ke2 Rc6 38.Kd2 Kg6 39.h5+ Kg7 40.Kd3 Rb6 41.Rc7 Rb1 42.Kc4 Rd1 43.Kb5 Kg8 44.Rf6 Rd2 45.Kc6 Kg7 46.Rg6+ Kh7 47.Rxg4 Rxf2 48.Kxd6 Re8 49.c4 Rd2+ 50.Kc6 Rf8 51.c5 Rd4 52.Rb7 Kh8 53.Kb5 Rd1 54.c6 Rc1 55.Kb6 Rc8 56.c7 Re8 57.Ra7 Rb1+ 58.Kc5 Rc1+ 59.Kd5 Rc2 60.Ra6 Kh7 61.Rc6 Rd2+ 62.Kc5 Ra8 63.Rh4 1-0

A very close game but it seems that after letting white in with 43...Kg8 allowing 44.Rf6, Black then had to deal with the strength of the rook on that square actively and immediately by 44...d5.

Kevin Bonham
20-02-2008, 10:26 PM
...and here's another one for Ivanchuk's shocker collection, throwing it all away vs Aronian from two pawns up in time trouble just before the time control.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 0-0 8.d4 Nxd4 9.Nxd4 exd4 10.e5 Ne8 11.Qxd4 Bb7 12.c4 bxc4 13.Qxc4 d5 14.exd6 Nxd6 15.Qg4 Nb5 16.Nc3 Nxc3 17.bxc3 Bd6 18.Bf4 Qf6 19.Bxd6 cxd6 20.Rad1 Rad8 21.Qb4 Ba8 22.Re3 g6 23.Qb6 Qg5 24.Rg3 Qb5 25.Rxd6 Rxd6 26.Qxd6 a5 27.Qf4 Bd5 28.Rg5 f5 29.Qe5 Rd8 30.h4 a4 31.Bc2 Qb8 32.Qxf5 Bxa2 33.Bxa4 Bf7 34.h5 Qb6 35.hxg6 hxg6 36.Qf4 Rc8 37.Rg3 Rc4 38.Qh6 Rxa4 39.Rh3 Ra1+ 40.Kh2 Qd6+ 41.f4 Qf6 42.Qh7+ Kf8 43.Qh6+ Ke7 44.Re3+ Kd7 45.Kg3 Ra4 46.Rd3+ Kc6 47.Rd4 Ra3 48.Rd3 Bd5 49.Qh3 Qf5 50.Qxf5 gxf5 51.Kh3 Ra1 52.Rd2 Rh1+ 53.Kg3 Rh6 54.Re2 Re6 55.Rd2 Rg6+ 56.Kh3 Kc5 57.Re2 Kc4 58.Rd2 Be4 59.g4 Kxc3 60.gxf5 Bxf5+ 0-1

With 37.Qb4 or Qd2 he would have been well on the way to a win. Even after what follows he could still at least draw with 38.Qe5 intending Rh3 with great heavy piece activity.

That's all bad enough, but wait, there's more! Had he played 30.Qxf5, winning a piece with an extremely obvious overloading of the black bishop, there wouldn't have been a time control. :( I'm assuming he was already extremely short of time at that point.

Desmond
20-02-2008, 10:42 PM
No one is undefeated after 4 rounds!

Kruupy
21-02-2008, 04:25 PM
why is kramnik not playing in Linares?

Southpaw Jim
21-02-2008, 04:55 PM
I thought he didn't have to after winning the WC, but I could be barking up the wrong tree here :hmm: didn't Linares become a de facto qualifier to play in the WC against the current title holder?

Capablanca-Fan
21-02-2008, 05:35 PM
...and here's another one for Ivanchuk's shocker collection, throwing it all away vs Aronian from two pawns up in time trouble just before the time control.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 0-0 8.d4 Nxd4 9.Nxd4 exd4 10.e5 Ne8 11.Qxd4 Bb7 12.c4 bxc4 13.Qxc4 d5 14.exd6 Nxd6 15.Qg4 Nb5 16.Nc3 Nxc3 17.bxc3 Bd6 18.Bf4 Qf6 19.Bxd6 cxd6 20.Rad1 Rad8 21.Qb4 Ba8 22.Re3 g6 23.Qb6 Qg5 24.Rg3 Qb5 25.Rxd6 Rxd6 26.Qxd6 a5 27.Qf4 Bd5 28.Rg5 f5 29.Qe5 Rd8 30.h4 a4 31.Bc2 Qb8 32.Qxf5 Bxa2 33.Bxa4 Bf7 34.h5 Qb6 35.hxg6 hxg6 36.Qf4 Rc8 37.Rg3 Rc4 38.Qh6 Rxa4 39.Rh3 Ra1+ 40.Kh2 Qd6+ 41.f4 Qf6 42.Qh7+ Kf8 43.Qh6+ Ke7 44.Re3+ Kd7 45.Kg3 Ra4 46.Rd3+ Kc6 47.Rd4 Ra3 48.Rd3 Bd5 49.Qh3 Qf5 50.Qxf5 gxf5 51.Kh3 Ra1 52.Rd2 Rh1+ 53.Kg3 Rh6 54.Re2 Re6 55.Rd2 Rg6+ 56.Kh3 Kc5 57.Re2 Kc4 58.Rd2 Be4 59.g4 Kxc3 60.gxf5 Bxf5+ 0-1

With 37.Qb4 or Qd2 he would have been well on the way to a win. Even after what follows he could still at least draw with 38.Qe5 intending Rh3 with great heavy piece activity.

That's all bad enough, but wait, there's more! Had he played 30.Qxf5, winning a piece with an extremely obvious overloading of the black bishop, there wouldn't have been a time control. :( I'm assuming he was already extremely short of time at that point.
I would have been surprised if even an ordinary master could lose from such a position, let alone one of the world's best. Yet before, he managed to outplay a strong opponent from a level-looking position. 8. d4 is supposed to be an innocuous form of anti-Marshall play but he revitalized it.

Denis_Jessop
21-02-2008, 08:27 PM
I thought he didn't have to after winning the WC, but I could be barking up the wrong tree here :hmm: didn't Linares become a de facto qualifier to play in the WC against the current title holder?

Linares is not part of the World Championship cycle. The relevant events are the World Championship and the World Cup. The former was won by Anand and the latter by Kamsky. Kramnik did not win the former. As a result the next step is for Anand to play a match against kramnik and for Kamsky to play a match against Topolov.

Here is Kirsan's explanation of it


Proposal A

The proposal is to terminate the World Championship Tournament and keep the World Cup as a Candidates tournament to find a challenger for a World Championship match. So in every odd year there will be only the World Cup (2007, 2009, 2011, etc.) and the respective winner will play every next year (2008, 2010, 2012, etc.) a match against the World Champion.

The chronological breakdown:

a1. 2008: The winner from WCCT 2007 in Mexico (Anand : DJ) plays a World Championship match against the previous World Champion. If Kramnik does not win the WCCT 2007, then Kramnik can challenge the winner of Mexico in the first part of 2008. If Kramnik wins in Mexico, then the right to challenge goes to the previous World Champion, ie Topalov.

a2. 2009: The winner of the "a1" match plays a World Championship match against the winner of the 2007 World Cup which will be held in Khanty-Mansiysk (Kamsky: DJ).

a3. 2010: The World Champion (winner of "a2") plays a World Championship match against the winner of the 2009 World Cup,

a4. 2012: The World Champion (winner of "a3") plays a World Championship match against the winner of the 2011 World Cup,

a5. 2014: The World Champion (winner of "a4") plays a World Championship match against the winner of the 2013 World Cup,

and so on.

But things changed a bit and Topolov got back into the act and so a1 and a2 have changed.

DJ

Kevin Bonham
21-02-2008, 08:50 PM
I would have been surprised if even an ordinary master could lose from such a position, let alone one of the world's best.

I can only assume he was extremely critically short of time, like down to mere seconds per move in the time scramble.

ER
21-02-2008, 09:41 PM
Dear Mr President
Please bring back the old system of deciding the World Champion! I know it wasn't perfect but I understood it!:doh:
Cheers and good luck!

ER
21-02-2008, 09:43 PM
ops, why did I post the ^ here?
Cheers and good luck!

pax
29-02-2008, 01:04 PM
Anand, Aronian and Carlsen win.

It is astonishing how quickly Carlsen has established himself among the top echelon of players. He was a bit fortunate against Ivanchuk, but he showed considerable fight when he was objectively worse. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Carlsen dominates chess for the next 20 years.

Ian Rout
29-02-2008, 02:21 PM
didn't Linares become a de facto qualifier to play in the WC against the current title holder?
You may be thinking of the year that Dortmund doubled as the "candidates" tournament for the private half of the World Championship.

I recollect that also during the time of the private WC, Shirov was invited to play Kramink in the playoff for the right to play the match that never happened on the basis of either winning Linares or coming second after Anand declined. My memory could be faulty on that one though.

Kevin Bonham
02-03-2008, 12:22 AM
It is astonishing how quickly Carlsen has established himself among the top echelon of players. He was a bit fortunate against Ivanchuk, but he showed considerable fight when he was objectively worse. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Carlsen dominates chess for the next 20 years.

If anyone else has something to say about that I think it will be the other young guns and not the present top three.

If FIDE inflation is taken into account and corrected for, the last several years may represent a falling off of chess strength at the top compared with Kasparov's dominant best, and there may well be room for the younger super-GMs to crash through and take over.

I'll be mildly surprised if Kramnik, Anand and Topalov are fighting for the world title in a decade from now at this rate. Indeed Topalov already seems to be waning a little compared to a few years ago - perhaps more opponents have figured him out.

Denis_Jessop
02-03-2008, 11:13 AM
If anyone else has something to say about that I think it will be the other young guns and not the present top three.

If FIDE inflation is taken into account and corrected for, the last several years may represent a falling off of chess strength at the top compared with Kasparov's dominant best, and there may well be room for the younger super-GMs to crash through and take over.

I'll be mildly surprised if Kramnik, Anand and Topalov are fighting for the world title in a decade from now at this rate. Indeed Topalov already seems to be waning a little compared to a few years ago - perhaps more opponents have figured him out.

I'd tend to agree - after all Anand is nearing 40 and the other two are in their mid-30s. But I think that it is a mistake to get carried away by Magnus Carlsen. There are several other young players in contention. Karjakin - the same age - is only one rating point behind him and Mamedyarov - only 5 years older - is well above. My feeling is that as things now are, no single player will dominate in the foreseeable future.

Here are the players rated FIDE 2700 or above:


1 Kramnik, Vladimir g RUS 2799 9 1975
2 Anand, Viswanathan g IND 2799 3 1969
3 Topalov, Veselin g BUL 2780 14 1975
4 Morozevich, Alexander g RUS 2765 12 1977
5 Svidler, Peter g RUS 2763 19 1976
6 Mamedyarov, Shakhriyar g AZE 2760 35 1985
7 Shirov, Alexei g ESP 2755 49 1972
8 Leko, Peter g HUN 2753 9 1979
9 Ivanchuk, Vassily g UKR 2751 30 1969
10 Aronian, Levon g ARM 2739 16 1982
11 Gelfand, Boris g ISR 2737 9 1968
12 Radjabov, Teimour g AZE 2735 20 1987
13 Carlsen, Magnus g NOR 2733 37 1990
14 Karjakin, Sergey g UKR 2732 36 1990
15 Kamsky, Gata g USA 2726 32 1974
16 Adams, Michael g ENG 2726 31 1971
17 Jakovenko, Dmitry g RUS 2720 33 1983
18 Ponomariov, Ruslan g UKR 2719 40 1983
19 Cheparinov, Ivan g BUL 2713 36 1986
20 Alekseev, Evgeny g RUS 2711 35 1985
21 Grischuk, Alexander g RUS 2711 21 1983
22 Polgar, Judit g HUN 2707 10 1976
23 Akopian, Vladimir g ARM 2700 30 1971
24 Bacrot, Etienne g FRA 2700 23 1983

DJ

Kevin Bonham
02-03-2008, 09:38 PM
But I think that it is a mistake to get carried away by Magnus Carlsen. There are several other young players in contention.

Yes, that is what I was getting at with my comment that the other young guns may have something to say about his rise (if anyone).

I won't be surprised to see a ripper match Carlsen vs Karjakin for the world title some time round about, oh, 2017. Assuming that a world title still exists by then.

Garvinator
02-03-2008, 09:41 PM
Assuming that a world title still exists by then.
a world title? Dont you mean, one of the world titles ;) :whistle:

Kevin Bonham
03-03-2008, 12:45 AM
Poor Ivanchuk is coming second-last but has thrown two and a half points away from three at least more or less winning positions now. Had he converted them all he would be leading.

I was going to make a "How much wood ..." joke but see it would not be original, so I won't.

pax
03-03-2008, 10:43 AM
I'd tend to agree - after all Anand is nearing 40 and the other two are in their mid-30s. But I think that it is a mistake to get carried away by Magnus Carlsen. There are several other young players in contention. Karjakin - the same age - is only one rating point behind him and Mamedyarov - only 5 years older - is well above. My feeling is that as things now are, no single player will dominate in the foreseeable future.
Karjakin is up there for sure, but we have seen really breakthrough performances from Carlsen in Wijk and now Linares. Carlsen could be in the top 5 once those performances are factored in - that would surely be unprecedented for a 17 year old?

Ian Rout
03-03-2008, 11:11 AM
Karjakin is up there for sure, but we have seen really breakthrough performances from Carlsen in Wijk and now Linares. Carlsen could be in the top 5 once those performances are factored in - that would surely be unprecedented for a 17 year old?
Fischer would have been at a similar level at a similar age though I think that would have pre-dated ratings. Anand and Shirov were high up at early ages though I don't know exactly where and when, I think not quite that young but there would be records somewhere.

Tal, Kasparov and Kramnik might also not be too far off.

pax
03-03-2008, 03:03 PM
Fischer would have been at a similar level at a similar age though I think that would have pre-dated ratings. Anand and Shirov were high up at early ages though I don't know exactly where and when, I think not quite that young but there would be records somewhere.

Tal, Kasparov and Kramnik might also not be too far off.
Kasparov finished equal first in the Soviet Championship at age 17 (while still an IM), and again age 18, so that could be regarded as a similar achievement. Kasparov was a Candidate at age 19. Fischer was a candidate at 16.

The chessmetrics ratings put Fischer at 9th in Jan 1961 (age 17y10m). He enters the top 5 at age 19y1m in 1963. Kasparov enters the top 5 age 16y10m in 1980. Kramnik entered the top 5 at 17, while Ivanchuk was 19 and Anand 22.

pax
03-03-2008, 03:13 PM
By the way, Carlsen's performances up until now (r10 Linares) put him on a provisional rating of 2764 - which would rank him 5th in the latest list, one point below Morozevich.

Desmond
07-03-2008, 07:44 PM
Vishy Anand (8) - Veselin Topalov (7)
Magnus Carlsen (7.5) - Teimour Radjabov (6.5)
Peter Leko (5) - Levon Aronian (7)
Alexei Shirov (5) - Vassily Ivanchuk (6)

Would be interesting if Topalov and Aronian win, and Carlsen draws resulting in a 4-way tie for first.