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Basil
05-10-2007, 10:12 AM
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Please note, this new poll question did not reproduce in full, due to its longevity. Here it is, in full:

During a tournament game, have you ever been disturbed by other people's
post-game analysis while they are still seated at their game table?
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Well, 'Tournament Hall Noise' thread number #1 was fun - not! Actually I found it very useful. Thanks to participants.

The original thread in no small part was hampered, with respect to progress, by the author's inability to:
-- get his facts straight regarding the ACF's jurisdiction
-- propensity for introducing analogies (which are seldom analogous)
-- trying to narrow the concept from the start, but still not starting small enough
-- not making clear, on pain of the use of big red capital letters, that the issue nominated in the opening post IS the issue

So (everybody with their excellent chess minds at the ready please, especially the author), I would be grateful for your considered opinions (and or vote) with respect to this poll. Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease try and answer this question, and not an associated one.

This poll is public. Hit and runners (TM Axiom) be warned!

CameronD
05-10-2007, 02:39 PM
Hi

In my experience it happens very late in a round when players are down to a few minutes each and only 1-2 boards are left playing and none of the people in the playing hall cares. People start standing around talking in normal voices and it just starts to snowball to everyone talking as the norm.

It usually personally affects me every second weekend tournament.(1/15 games, never had problems at club level) I'll never forget at the March madness tournament when Solomon was playing someone in an extreme complex late middlegame where each player was down to their 10sec increment and the noise in the room was unbearable, I wanted to take a bat to everyone in the room. Only 1-2 people cared about the noise, the remaining 40 people+arbiter didn't care a bit.

bergil
05-10-2007, 02:47 PM
No never even when I've helped analysis next to me while still playing.

Garvinator
05-10-2007, 02:52 PM
Only 1-2 people cared about the noise, the remaining 40 people+arbiter didn't care a bit.
Arbiter cared heaps, but with nowhere to kick people out to, not much can be done about it.

Furthermore in the situation you describe, to actually start telling people to shut up or leave without a player complaint makes the situation more noisy and risks a major confrontation with a person who takes exception to the arbiter's direction.

In situations like the one you describe, the best policy is if one of the players hasn't complained, do nothing unless there is NO other choice.

Also, I would have been right near the board watching the 'time scramble'. To leave the board to tell others to be quiet risks a worse situation-claim made by one of the players right when dealing with spectator noise.

End of rounds are the worst, especially when not enough time is allowed between rounds, so you have people returning to the playing hall thinking all the games are over.

Phil Bourke
05-10-2007, 03:35 PM
It has been my experience, limited as it is, that it isn't so much the quick and generally low key conversation (1-2 mins) about where the game was won or lost, but when the players want to go back to the opening and discussing all the alternatives they could have taken that creates the problem. They tend to forget that it is a tournament venue and start talking at their normal pitch and tone and sometimes even more animated. It is natural for players to exchange the polite good game etc and though this may be noticeable it is never annoying.

Basil
05-10-2007, 04:08 PM
It is natural for players to exchange the polite good game etc and though this may be noticeable it is never annoying.
Agreed. Good game, handshake, nod, whisper "shall we take it over there?" is all good and natural as you say. I'm after the clowns who get into the
-- "I thought you should have done this, look". <clatter clatter reset the prices>
-- "No, but what about this?"
-- "No no no that doesn't work because of that."
-- "Oh yes I see, you're right ..."
-- "Oh I'm sorry, is my dribble putting you of your f***ing game?"

And as I have said elsewhere, when shushed, they know exactly the game is up [/pun]

My observations over many years and games are
-- that this is a common occurrence, and
-- a common source of annoyance / disturbance to games in progress

Basil
05-10-2007, 04:54 PM
No never even when I've helped analysis next to me while still playing.
What about your opponent ????????????????? :eek:
Did he/ she object to your doing this quite amazing double act? :hmm:
And what about the other table next to you who has to contend with not two players, but 4 !!!!! analysing a game?

We'll talk more about this the Champs mate! ;)

Basil
05-10-2007, 05:25 PM
In my experience it happens very late in a round when players are down to a few minutes each and only 1-2 boards are left playing and none of the people in the playing hall cares. People start standing around talking in normal voices and it just starts to snowball to everyone talking as the norm.
Thanks Cam. Just trying to expressly limit this thread to 'analysis at the board after the game' - not the general hubub which, as you correctly point out, does gain momentum towards the end of the round.

CameronD
05-10-2007, 07:32 PM
Thanks Cam. Just trying to expressly limit this thread to 'analysis at the board after the game' - not the general hubub which, as you correctly point out, does gain momentum towards the end of the round.


They are the same in my opinion and reflect the same problem. Whats worse than aftergame analysis is people noisely playing lightning in the tournament hall which I think happened as well on that day (no more than 4 metres away from the game by memory)

Basil
05-10-2007, 07:34 PM
They are the same in my opinion and reflect the same problem. Whats worse than aftergame analysis is people noisely playing lightning in the tournament hall which I think happened as well on that day (no more than 4 metres away from the game by memory)
OK, well let's not debate that here if you don't mind because whether they are the same in many aspects or not definitely falls outside my gamut as specifically stated at the top of this thread. We do have another thread for allied issues. I'd appreciate your cooperation.

It makes it easier for me (us) to target a specific and indentifiable issue and understand people's perspectives on the specific issue of 'post-game analysis at the board'. Many thanks. As it is, we have spent 4 posts out of 10, between us on this one matter.

eclectic
05-10-2007, 11:59 PM
there!
voted!
;)
:uhoh:

bergil
06-10-2007, 09:31 AM
What about your opponent ????????????????? :eek:
Did he/ she object to your doing this quite amazing double act? :hmm:
And what about the other table next to you who has to contend with not two players, but 4 !!!!! analysing a game?

We'll talk more about this the Champs mate! ;)He was wandering around the venue and only came to the board when it was his turn so it didn't bother him at all. We were 2 boards to a table and nobody complain as we tried and must have been quiet.

Basil
06-10-2007, 11:23 AM
He was wandering around the venue and only came to the board when it was his turn so it didn't bother him at all. We were 2 boards to a table and nobody complain as we tried and must have been quiet.
Am I right in saying that your basis for believing that you weren't a disruption lies in that no-one complained?

Basil
06-10-2007, 12:41 PM
Should be noted that since voting, Dan has 'fessed that he should have picked 'insufficient experience' or acknowledging that perhaps a rule should be in place (which isn't an option), but he did say that tapping annoyed him ;)

bergil
06-10-2007, 01:44 PM
Am I right in saying that your basis for believing that you weren't a disruption lies in that no-one complained?My basis is that the assistant arbiter saw what was happening didn't mind nor did anyone else as there was sufficient space between tables and we were being quiet.

Note:This will not be acceptable in the Australian Championships as there will be tables outside and downstairs for analysis

Garvinator
06-10-2007, 02:08 PM
My basis is that the assistant arbiter saw what was happening didn't mind nor did anyone else as there was sufficient space between tables and we were being quiet.

Note:This will not be acceptable in the Australian Championships as there will be tables outside and downstairs for analysis
I think this is one of the big factors in what is allowed and what isnt regarding analysis at the board. Is there an analysis room provided for such activities?

bergil
06-10-2007, 02:43 PM
I think this is one of the big factors in what is allowed and what isnt regarding analysis at the board. Is there an analysis room provided for such activities?
Analysis room
There will be tables outside the playing room for analysis and in the Lennox room underneath the Macarthur room.

DanielBell
06-10-2007, 05:42 PM
Should be noted that since voting, Dan has 'fessed that he should have picked 'insufficient experience' or acknowledging that perhaps a rule should be in place (which isn't an option), but he did say that tapping annoyed him ;)

I also get annoyed when I lose so there should be a rule against that!!!!

:lol:

Basil
07-10-2007, 11:27 PM
This is the primary Australian Chess Forum. There is a request for feedback regarding an issue on which everyone is capable of voicing an opinion.

An indication is asked for. You are being surveyed on a very simple premise. No personal information is being sought. Those that have elected not to give feedback are disappointing me greatly.

Axiom
07-10-2007, 11:48 PM
This is the primary Australian Chess Forum. There is a request for feedback regarding an issue on which everyone is capable of voicing an opinion.

An indication is asked for. You are being surveyed on a very simple premise. No personal information is being sought. Those that have elected not to give feedback are disappointing me greatly.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ;)

eclectic
07-10-2007, 11:53 PM
the type of post game analysis i really hate is from onlookers sitting beside your board who think the game is over (hence in their mind now post analysis mode) when they can blurt out mate in xx moves especially when you are on the losing end and are hoping your opponent hasn't seen it!

:evil:

CameronD
07-10-2007, 11:56 PM
At the tournament I played this week I made 7 complaints to the arbiter on post game analysis when 4-6 people start analysis on the board next door. This is a huge problem as I didn't complain in lesser situations, though I could've.

eclectic
08-10-2007, 12:03 AM
another irritating form of post game analysis i have experienced is when you are still in a game and some players come and sit beside your board and start going over a game except that after a while you realise the game looks a lot like the game you are involved in that is it's your opponent's mates contriving a game so that they can subtlely relay move hints

CameronD
08-10-2007, 06:40 AM
another irritating form of post game analysis i have experienced is when you are still in a game and some players come and sit beside your board and start going over a game except that after a while you realise the game looks a lot like the game you are involved in that is it's your opponent's mates contriving a game so that they can subtlely relay move hints\



I hope the arbiter would have the backbone to remove the analysers from the tournament permanently for this and that the state associsation would give suspensions to them (2 years) if reported. Nothing short of assisted cheating and deserves the harshest penalties possible.