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Garvinator
05-10-2007, 01:00 AM
The 70th Corus Chess Tournament is being held from January 11 to January 27 2008. The official website is www.CorusChess.com.

Garvinator
05-10-2007, 01:03 AM
I need a poll close adjustment time- For some reason it has come up as 15-10-2007.

It should read: 10-01-2008

Intuition
05-10-2007, 09:10 AM
I'd have to say topalov...its pretty hard to go past a guy who has fritz on his side :)

Southpaw Jim
05-10-2007, 10:44 PM
Getting in early with the poll, Garv? :P ;)

Garvinator
05-10-2007, 10:55 PM
Getting in early with the poll, Garv? :P ;)
Just did not want Escribano in the poll this time :whistle:

eclectic
05-10-2007, 11:03 PM
Just did not want Escribano in the poll this time :whistle:

such a talisman would have boded ill as an omen

;)

Garvinator
09-01-2008, 01:47 AM
Reminder that this event starts on the 11th January.

Garvinator
12-01-2008, 03:43 AM
Round 1 - Saturday the 12th

V. Kramnik - L. van Wely
T. Radjabov - A. Anand
S. Mamedyarov - M. Carlsen
P. Eljanov - P. Leko
M. Adams - B. Gelfand
L. Aronian - V. Topalov
V. Ivanchuk - J. Polgar

Kaitlin
12-01-2008, 11:21 AM
Polls closed.. but i vote

Peter Leko

Kevin Bonham
12-01-2008, 02:40 PM
Odds from betfair:

Vishwanathan Anand 1.76/1
Vladimir Kramnik 3.5/1
Veselin Topalov 3.7/1
Vassily Ivanchuk 10
Shakhryar Mamedyarov 12
Levon Aronian 13
Teymour Radjabov 13
Peter Leko 15.5/1
Magnus Carlsen 16.5/1
Boris Gelfand 17
Michael Adams 45
Judit Polgar 79
Pavel Eljanov 89
Loek van Wely 119

I reckon the difference in winning chance between Anand, Kramnik and Topalov is nothing like that large and Anand has been backed into irrationally short odds because he is world champion and has a good past record in this event.

ER
12-01-2008, 02:56 PM
I missed the voting deadline, but I would have gone for El Topo. In his good day he can beat anyone! In his bad? that's another story Go Vesko!!!
Cheers and good luck!

Garvinator
12-01-2008, 08:26 PM
Odds from betfair:

Vishwanathan Anand 1.76/1
Vladimir Kramnik 3.5/1
Veselin Topalov 3.7/1
Vassily Ivanchuk 10
Shakhryar Mamedyarov 12
Levon Aronian 13
Teymour Radjabov 13
Peter Leko 15.5/1
Magnus Carlsen 16.5/1
Boris Gelfand 17
Michael Adams 45
Judit Polgar 79
Pavel Eljanov 89
Loek van Wely 119
At these odds, I'll take Aronian for $13 thanks.

Kaitlin
13-01-2008, 07:46 AM
Round 1 - Saturday the 12th

V. Kramnik - L. van Wely -
T. Radjabov - V. Anand 1-0
S. Mamedyarov - M. Carlsen 0-1
P. Eljanov - P. Leko -
M. Adams - B. Gelfand -
L. Aronian - V. Topalov 1-0
V. Ivanchuk - J. Polgar -

Kevin Bonham
13-01-2008, 09:42 AM
Mamedyarov appears to have resigned prematurely.

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 g6 4. g3 Bg7 5. Bg2 d6 6. O-O Bg4 7. h3 Bxf3 8. Qxf3
Nf6 9. d3 O-O 10. Qd1 Nd7 11. f4 c4 12. dxc4 Na5 13. Nd5 Nxc4 14. c3 Ndb6 15.
Qe2 Rc8 16. Kh2 e6 17. Nb4 Na4 18. f5 Re8 19. fxe6 fxe6 20. Nd3 Qb6 21. h4 Qa6
22. Rf2 Ne5 23. Nf4 Nc5 24. Qxa6 bxa6 25. Re2 h6 26. Kh1 a5 27. Be3 a4 28. Rd1
Rc6 29. Bd4 g5 30. Nh3 g4 31. Nf4 Rb6 32. Nh5 Bh8 33. Red2 Reb8 34. Bxc5 dxc5
35. Rd8+ Kf7 36. Rxb8 Rxb8 37. Rd2 Nc4 38. Rd7+ Ke8 39. Rxa7 Be5 40. Rxa4 Ne3
0-1

While Black is better, there is nothing to justify White's conclusion that he was losing a piece.

This is Aronian-Topalov, a really feisty and messy game, about as much sense as I can make of it is that Black's 34...Bxe5 giving white a passed a-pawn was probably not a completely brilliant idea.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. g3 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. Bg2 Nb6 7. Nf3 Nc6 8.
Bf4 O-O 9. e3 h6 10. h4 Bg4 11. Rc1 e5 12. dxe5 Qe7 13. Nd5 Nxd5 14. Qxd5 Nb4
15. Qc4 Be6 16. Qxc7 Nd3+ 17. Kd2 Qb4+ 18. Qc3 Qxc3+ 19. Rxc3 Nxf2 20. Nd4 Nxh1
21. Bxh1 Rfd8 22. Rc7 Rac8 23. Rxb7 Bxa2 24. Rxa7 Be6 25. Rb7 Bf5 26. Bf3 Rc2+
27. Ke1 Rc1+ 28. Kf2 Be6 29. g4 Bc8 30. Rb8 Rf8 31. h5 g5 32. Bg3 Ra1 33. Rb6
Re8 34. Be2 Bxe5 35. Bxe5 Rxe5 36. Rxh6 Re4 37. Bf3 Re5 38. Rc6 Be6 39. Nxe6
fxe6 40. Be2 Rb1 41. Rb6 Rd5 42. Bc4 Rd2+ 43. Kf3 Rbxb2 44. Rxe6 Rbc2 45. Rg6+
Kh8 46. Be6 Rc6 47. Ke4 Rd8 48. Kf5 Rc5+ 49. Kf6 Rf8+ 50. Ke7 Rf3 51. Bf5 Re5+
52. Kf7 Rfxf5+ 53. gxf5 Rxf5+ 54. Ke6 Ra5 55. e4 Kh7 56. e5 Ra1 57. Rxg5 Kh6
58. Rg2 Kxh5 59. Kf6 Rf1+ 60. Ke7 Ra1 61. e6 Kh6 62. Kf7 1-0

Kevin Bonham
13-01-2008, 03:54 PM
Mig has pointed out that Anand missed a draw against Radjabov:

1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nf3 e6 5. Bg5 h6 6.
Bh4 dxc4 7. e4 g5 8. Bg3 b5 9. Be2 Bb7 10. O-O Nbd7 11. Ne5 Bg7 12. Nxd7 Nxd7
13. Bd6 a6 14. Re1 Bf8 15. Bg3 Bg7 16. Bd6 Bf8 17. Bxf8 Rxf8 18. b3 b4 19. Na4
c3 20. a3 a5 21. d5 Qe7 22. d6 Qf6 23. e5 Qf4 24. Bd3 bxa3 25. Qe2 Qd2 26. Rxa3
Qxe2 27. Rxe2 g4 28. Nxc3 Rg8 29. Ne4 Kd8 30. Nd2 c5 31. Bb5 Bd5 32. Nc4 Rg5
33. Rea2 Nxe5 34. Nb6 Rb8 35. Rxa5 Be4 36. Ra7 f6 37. R2a6 Rg8 38. Rc7 Rf8 39.
Rxc5 Rf7 40. d7 Nxd7 41. Nxd7 Rxd7 42. Bxd7 Kxd7 43. Rc3 f5 44. Ra7+ Kd6 45.
Rh7 Bd5 46. Rxh6 Bxb3 47. h3 gxh3 48. Rhxh3 Bd5 49. Rc2 Ke5 50. f3 Kf6 51. Kf2
Rb4 52. Re2 Kg6 53. Kg3 Ra4 54. Rh4 Ra7 55. Rb2 Kf6 56. Rhb4 Ke5 57. Re2+ Kf6
58. Rd2 Ke5 59. Re2+ Kf6 60. Kf4 Ra3 61. Rd2 Ra5 62. Re2 Ra3 63. Kg3 Ra8 64.
Rc2 Ke5 65. Rh4 Rg8+ 66. Kh2 Ra8 67. Re2+ Kf6 68. f4 Ke7 69. Rh7+ Kd6 70. Kg3
Rg8+ 71. Kh3 Rg4 72. g3 Rg8 73. Rd2 Rc8 74. Kh4 Rc3 75. Rg7 Ra3 76. Rc2 Bc6 77.
Rc1 Rb3 78. Rg1 Bd5 79. Kg5 Kc5 80. Kf6 Kd4 81. Re1 Rb6 82. Rd7 Rc6 83. Ke7 Ra6
84. Rd6 Ra7+ 85. Kf6

Anand could have claimed a draw by writing 63...Ra7 [edit-corrected] on his scoresheet and declaring his intention to play said move to the arbiter. That would have been the same position as after B57 and B59.

Instead he played 63...Ra8??

Aaron Guthrie
13-01-2008, 04:14 PM
Anand could have claimed a draw by writing 63...Ka7 on his scoresheet and declaring his intention to play said move to the arbiter. That would have been the same position as after B57 and B59.

Instead he played 63...Ka8??This little typo made me wonder if it is possible to claim a draw via repetition if one is intending to make an illegal move.


9.2

The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by the player having the move, when the same position, for at least the third time (not necessarily by a repetition of moves)

a. is about to appear, if he first writes his move on his scoresheet and declares to the arbiter his intention to make this move, orAnd this doesn't seem to exclude such. If one is intending to make an illegal move, then the position would indeed be about to appear. And there is no clause that the intended move need be legal. The next clause is also interesting

b. has just appeared, and the player claiming the draw has the move.Which also doesn't state the position need have occurred legally. And it is not clear to me that 7.4 fixes things.
7.4
a. If during a game it is found that an illegal move, including failing to meet the requirements of the promotion of a pawn or capturing the opponent’s king, has been completed, the position immediately before the irregularity shall be reinstated.Because it doesn't seem the move was completed in the case of (a), then again maybe it was in some weird (FIDE laws) way.

Kevin Bonham
13-01-2008, 04:43 PM
This little typo made me wonder if it is possible to claim a draw via repetition if one is intending to make an illegal move.

:lol: Fixed the typos (...Ra7 not ...Ka7 of course) but I have no answer to your claim.

After all since it is the position that needs to repeat and not the move, there may be cases where a position reached twice by legal moves could be reached a third time only by an illegal one.

Perhaps the arbiter would just say that a claim that relies on an intended illegal move cannot possibly be a "correct claim". Or perhaps, given that FIDE thought it was necessary to rub out the risk of checkmate via illegal move, they should also rub out this one.

Aaron Guthrie
13-01-2008, 05:22 PM
After all since it is the position that needs to repeat and not the move, there may be cases where a position reached twice by legal moves could be reached a third time only by an illegal one.In the Anand game he could have played 62...Rc5, and then 63...Ra7 would have been an illegal repetition.
Perhaps the arbiter would just say that a claim that relies on an intended illegal move cannot possibly be a "correct claim".I thought of this, but then I thought that the "correct" modifier to "claim" just means that the position actually has to have repeated 3 times. But then again, since the claimer is making a weird claim, maybe the arbiter has some room to move on what claims he makes on the word "correct". Also there is the disclaimer at the start of the rules, which might be able to be appealed to. Even disrepute might be able to be appealed to, assuming that the person is aware of the illegality of his intended move.

Kevin Bonham
13-01-2008, 05:23 PM
Also there is the disclaimer at the start of the rules, which might be able to be appealed to.

The disclaimer would definitely be used in such situations if necessary. That's the sort of thing it is there for - someone comes up with a devious claim that hadn't been anticipated.

pax
14-01-2008, 11:56 AM
Aronian at 13 and Carlsen at 16.5 look like excellent value. Even before they won their first two :)



Odds from betfair:

Vishwanathan Anand 1.76/1
Vladimir Kramnik 3.5/1
Veselin Topalov 3.7/1
Vassily Ivanchuk 10
Shakhryar Mamedyarov 12
Levon Aronian 13
Teymour Radjabov 13
Peter Leko 15.5/1
Magnus Carlsen 16.5/1
Boris Gelfand 17
Michael Adams 45
Judit Polgar 79
Pavel Eljanov 89
Loek van Wely 119

I reckon the difference in winning chance between Anand, Kramnik and Topalov is nothing like that large and Anand has been backed into irrationally short odds because he is world champion and has a good past record in this event.

Intuition
14-01-2008, 01:37 PM
dont expect much from andad and kramnik in this tourney....they are saving themselves for the big one in a few months time...its unlikely buy i hope carlsen wins :)

ER
14-01-2008, 06:12 PM
dont expect much from andad and kramnik in this tourney....they are saving themselves for the big one in a few months time...its unlikely buy i hope carlsen wins :)

lol Intu don't forget, you 've voted for El Topo (like me)! :owned:
Cheers and good luck

Kevin Bonham
14-01-2008, 06:13 PM
I voted for Topa too, but only to try to stop him from winning. :lol:

Bill Gletsos
15-01-2008, 04:16 PM
Round 4

L. van Wely - V. Topalov
B. Gelfand - J. Polgar
P. Leko - V. Ivanchuk
M. Carlsen - L. Aronian
V. Anand - M. Adams
V. Kramnik - P. Eljanov
T. Radjabov - S. MamedyarovCarslen - Aronian and Radjabov - Mamedyarov should be interesting.

Denis_Jessop
15-01-2008, 07:06 PM
No intelligent Arbiter would allow a claim of a draw by repitition on the basis of an intention to make an illegal move. If the illegal move had been made before he would invoke Art. 7.4. if not, the Arbiter could rule that the claim was not a "correct claim" being based on an intention to breach the Laws of Chess. Under Art. 9.2 any claim of a draw by repitition must be a "correct claim".

DJ

littlesprout85
15-01-2008, 07:09 PM
Ermmmm,

Seems to the sprout that this poll closed awfully fast. Meh didnt get a chance to vote- or meh would have voted for Anand, the under dog always has his day when sprouty weighs in- IMFAO :eek:

Typically sprouty would be going for Topalov, but today he has been on top & also has had a lotta playing time the past year. Hard to stay on top for long haul these days.:wall:

-Very interesting how both of these top chessmasters are still in the hunt & starting to really seperate themselves from the pack now ;)

Also sprouty offline practicing would play the repeating move 3x to be illegal & not just 1x as in online chess. Thus to be ruled illegal would have a good fight on hand.

Wow then like a speeding bullet - BG's flys in and opens the poll for Sproutay :o) Right onz !!! BG's going to get meh vote next year as #1 mod of ChessChats :D
-Sprout :)

Desmond
15-01-2008, 07:48 PM
I've just been looking at the results (http://www.schaakbondgrootamsterdam.nl/cct/cct08w.html)of the 3 game tournaments being run. It seems that 4 players of around the same rating group are playing a round robin. However they don't seem to be grouped purely by rating, eg groep 1A: 2341, 2233, 2121, 2110 and groep 1B: 2259, 2209, 2128, 2098. Does anyone know what system they use for determining the groups?

ER
15-01-2008, 09:00 PM
I voted for Topa too, but only to try to stop him from winning. :lol:

LMAO how does that work Kevin? Cosmic energy or something? Cheers and good luck!

Kevin Bonham
15-01-2008, 09:04 PM
LMAO how does that work Kevin?

I don't know how it works, but my strike rate in putting the mockers on in super-tournaments has been just about perfect lately. :lol:

Desmond
15-01-2008, 09:09 PM
I don't know how it works, but my strike rate in putting the mockers on in super-tournaments has been just about perfect lately. :lol:
I reckon the ridiculously short odds on Anand might have had a similar effect. Who in their right minds would have backed him at less than $2 in a 14-knight race?

Adamski
15-01-2008, 09:28 PM
Go Michael Adams! Michael's my middle name. I see he takes on the world champion next (who I agree is at ridiculously short odds - proved by him losing in Rd 1).

Basil
15-01-2008, 09:36 PM
Go Michael Adams!
Don't encourage me!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1FeIF-7fhkE

Adamski
15-01-2008, 09:49 PM
Well, Gunner, at least that's better than the video clips Axiom posts!

Anna chess
16-01-2008, 07:09 PM
Poll is closed already, but I'd vote for Anand. I think he will be the first one!
By the way, I found excellent online broadcasting of the tournament here:
www.chessok.com
perhaps, it'll be useful information:)

Kevin Bonham
18-01-2008, 10:00 AM
As I expected Gelfand was wiped out by Topalov

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. d4 d5
6. Bd3 Nc6 7. O-O Be7 8. Nc3 Nxc3 9. bxc3 Bg4 10. Re1 O-O 11. Bf4 Bd6 12. Bxd6
cxd6 13. Re3 Qd7 14. h3 Bh5 15. Qd2 Rae8 16. Nh4 Rxe3 17. Qxe3 Qe6 18. Nf5 Rd8
19. Qg5 ({I think Kramnik would have played} 19. Re1! +/- {here}) 19... Bg6
20. Ne3 Be4 21. Re1 h6 22. Qh4 Qg6 23. Be2 Bxc2 24. Bh5 Qe4 25. Qg3 Bd3 26. f3
Qe7 ?? (26... Qh7 27. Qf4 {looks pretty good for white}) (26... Qe6 27. Ng4 Be2
28. f4 +/-) 27. Ng4 Qg5 28. f4 {
trapping the queen but black was lost after ...Qe7 anyway} 1-0

and I was also not that surprised that Van Wely couldn't survive his position against Mamedyarov in time trouble. Radjabov also won, so now Carlsen, Aronian and Radjabov are plus-two, Kramnik and Polgar are plus-one and Gelfand is having a horrible tournament on 1/5. Adams, Leko and Ivanchuk are all +0=5-0!

Adamski
18-01-2008, 12:42 PM
Thanks Kevin. What, though, was wrong with 12..Qxd6? Black seemed to get into big problems because of his doubled d pawns.

Basil
18-01-2008, 12:49 PM
Thanks Kevin. What, though, was wrong with 12..Qxd6? Black seemed to get into big problems because of his doubled d pawns.
I think Bxh7 themes were about! The black queen had to protect g5 from the coming knight check (after Bxh7) and preventing subsequent return of the invested bishop.

Adamski
18-01-2008, 01:03 PM
Good point, Gunner. Ta.

Kevin Bonham
18-01-2008, 03:07 PM
Gunner is correct. 12...Qxd6 is refuted by 13.Bxh7+ winning a pawn.

Adamski
18-01-2008, 03:52 PM
So I think the whole line from 9...Bg4 is rather suspect for Black!?

Kevin Bonham
18-01-2008, 04:02 PM
So I think the whole line from 9...Bg4 is rather suspect for Black!?

11...Bd6 is not forced for black by any means so I don't know about that.

Marin's comment about the position on move 12 (http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=4391) is as follows:

Both players treated the Russian defence in original way. Double pawns are known to be weak, but also to control important groups of squares and leave files open for the major pieces. The weakness of the c3- and c2-pawns would be less relevant if the c-file would not be available for Black. In principle, the d5-pawn looks more exposed than the c3-pawn (even if for the simple reason that it is physically blocked; compare to White's possibility of playing a sacrificial c4 at some moment, provoking structural changes that could eventually offer him an initiative). On the other hand, the squares controled by the d5- and d6-pawns is more central, which can have an important influence over the outcome of the game. Anyway, it is not easy to give a final evaluation of the position, but both players had probably their own opinion about it. Topalov had had this structure before (against Bacrot, in Morelia 2006), with the only difference that the bishops were exchanged early in that game. He maintained some pressure until deep in the endgame, but the result was a draw.

I don't trust black's doubled pawns. Topalov showed in the game that you can work around their control of central squares.

Adamski
18-01-2008, 04:41 PM
11...Bd6 is not forced for black by any means so I don't know about that.

Marin's comment about the position on move 12 (http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=4391) is as follows:

Both players treated the Russian defence in original way. Double pawns are known to be weak, but also to control important groups of squares and leave files open for the major pieces. The weakness of the c3- and c2-pawns would be less relevant if the c-file would not be available for Black. In principle, the d5-pawn looks more exposed than the c3-pawn (even if for the simple reason that it is physically blocked; compare to White's possibility of playing a sacrificial c4 at some moment, provoking structural changes that could eventually offer him an initiative). On the other hand, the squares controled by the d5- and d6-pawns is more central, which can have an important influence over the outcome of the game. Anyway, it is not easy to give a final evaluation of the position, but both players had probably their own opinion about it. Topalov had had this structure before (against Bacrot, in Morelia 2006), with the only difference that the bishops were exchanged early in that game. He maintained some pressure until deep in the endgame, but the result was a draw.

I don't trust black's doubled pawns. Topalov showed in the game that you can work around their control of central squares.

Ta, KB. Interesting comments. For what its worth (not much, I'm only a 1636 player - today anyway) I would avoid 11...Bd6 and the consequent doubled d pawns if I was in this Pettroff line as Black. I have been known to play the occasional Pettroff/ Russian Defence....

Kevin Bonham
19-01-2008, 12:48 PM
Only the fact that he dragged it out to move 110 precludes me from saying that Aronian was beaten like a womble last night.

On move 22 Aronian was the first to start thinking, although the game was actually still following a Radjabov-Anand game (won by Anand) from last year. When the game finally stopped following that one with Kramnik's 25.Nc3, Aronian was already forty minutes behind on the clock.

Kramnik continued to be apparently in preparation for another four or five moves, or else he was playing strong moves very quickly, and at move 31 he had about an hour and 40 minutes while Aronian had less than ten.

Kramnik-Aronian

1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 e6 5. Bg5 h6 6.
Bh4 dxc4 7. e4 g5 8. Bg3 b5 9. Be2 Bb7 10. O-O Nbd7 11. Ne5 Bg7 12. Nxd7 Nxd7
13. Bd6 a6 14. a4 e5 15. Bg4 exd4 16. e5 c5 17. Re1 Nxe5 18. Bxe5 O-O 19. Bxg7
Kxg7 20. Ne2 f5 21. Bh5 f4 22. b4 cxb3 23. Qxb3 Qd5 24. Qh3 Bc8 25. Nc3 dxc3
26. Qxc3+ Qd4 27. Qf3 Ra7 28. axb5 Qf6 29. Qa3 Qb6 30. Qc3+ Kg8 31. Re5 Qf6 32.
Qxc5 Rd7 33. h4 gxh4 34. Bg4 Rdd8 35. Bxc8 Rxc8 36. Qd5+ Qf7 37. bxa6 Qxd5 38.
Rxd5 Rf7 39. a7 Ra8 40. Rda5 Kh7 41. R1a3 h3 42. gxh3 f3 43. Kh2 Rg7 44. h4
Rg2+ 45. Kh3 Rg7 46. Ra6 Rf7 47. R3a5 Rg7 48. h5 Rf7 49. Kg4 Rg8+ 50. Kh3 Ra8
51. Kg4 Rg8+ 52. Rg6 Ra8 53. Raa6 Raxa7 54. Rxh6+ Kg8 55. Rag6+ Rg7 56. Kxf3
Rxg6 57. Rxg6+ Kf7 58. Rg4 Ra1 59. Kg3 Rh1 60. Rh4 Ra1 61. Rb4 Kg7 62. Rb6 Rg1+
63. Kf4 Rh1 64. Kg5 Rg1+ 65. Kf5 Rh1 66. h6+ Kh7 67. Ra6 Rf1 68. f4 Rb1 69. Re6
Ra1 70. Rf6 Re1 71. Kg4 Ra1 72. f5 Rg1+ 73. Kf4 Rf1+ 74. Ke5 Re1+ 75. Kd6 Rf1
76. Ke7 Rf2 77. Rf8 Re2+ 78. Kf7 Ra2 79. Rd8 Ra7+ 80. Kf6 Ra1 81. Rd2 Rb1 82.
Ra2 Rb3 83. Rh2 Rb1 84. Rh4 Rb8 85. Kg5 Rg8+ 86. Kf4 Ra8 87. Kg5 Rg8+ 88. Kf6
Ra8 89. Re4 Ra1 90. Re8 Ra2 91. Re1 Ra3 92. Rh1 Ra2 93. Kg5 Rg2+ 94. Kf4 Rf2+
95. Ke4 Re2+ 96. Kf3 Ra2 97. Ke4 Re2+ 98. Kd4 Rd2+ 99. Ke3 Ra2 100. f6 Ra7 101.
Rf1 Kg6 102. Ke4 Ra4+ 103. Kd5 Kf7 104. Rh1 Ra5+ 105. Kc4 Ra4+ 106. Kb5 Ra8
107. h7 Rh8 108. Rh6 Rb8+ 109. Kc6 Rc8+ 110. Kd6 1-0

Carlsen beat Polgar and Topalov beat Leko with Black so we now have

+3 Carlsen
+2 Kramnik, Radjabov
+1 Aronian
=0 Adams, Van Wely, Mamedyarov, Ivanchuk, Polgar, Topalov
-1 Anand, Leko
-3 Gelfand, Eljanov

Kevin Bonham
20-01-2008, 04:11 PM
According to Marin, Aronian actually had a technical tablebase draw for much of the ending against Kramnik and only became lost from move 103, which given that it is the tricky f and h pawn ending (where the defender often draws with absolutely perfect play) does not surprise me greatly.

Aronian bounced back yesterday, beating Radjabov to swap places with him, while Anand beat Polgar, also swapping places.

Capablanca-Fan
20-01-2008, 04:42 PM
According to Marin, Aronian actually had a technical tablebase draw for much of the ending against Kramnik and only became lost from move 103, which given that it is the tricky f and h pawn ending (where the defender often draws with absolutely perfect play) does not surprise me greatly.
Some very helpful comments by Marin (http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=4394). My own longest tournament game (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1450811)was having to defend this type of endgame. But back then we had adjournments to refresh our knowledge of the drawing technique ;) Kramnik played a new plan, and Aronian went wrong.

Bill Gletsos
20-01-2008, 05:52 PM
Some very helpful comments by Marin (http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=4394). My own longest tournament game (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1450811)was having to defend this type of endgame. But back then we had adjournments to refresh our knowledge of the drawing technique ;) Kramnik played a new plan, and Aronian went wrong.Actually Jono it appears your opponent missed a win after your 109...Ra7+ when he could have played 110. Kf8 and won.

Capablanca-Fan
20-01-2008, 06:50 PM
Actually Jono it appears your opponent missed a win after your 109...Ra7+ when he could have played 110. Kf8 and won.
I think you're right, Bill. So 109... Kh6, by analogy with Smyslov and Levenfish position #29 (where White has an e-pawn), and 109... Rb8 should be OK as well because there are still three files separating the R from the P. After White missed his chance, we reverted to the normal course of events, as per S&L #26 (again with the e-pawn).

Bill Gletsos
20-01-2008, 07:28 PM
I think you're right, Bill. So 109... Kh6, by analogy with Smyslov and Levenfish position #29 (where White has an e-pawn), and 109... Rb8 should be OK as well because there are still three files separating the R from the P. After White missed his chance, we reverted to the normal course of events, as per S&L #26 (again with the e-pawn).I assume you meant 109... Ra8 which would hold. If you opponent had realised he could in fact win via 109. Kf8 then after your 110... Ra8 he had a chance to get back to that position via 111. Re6 and hope you would again play 111... Ra7+.

Kevin Bonham
23-01-2008, 08:11 AM
Topalov beats Kramnik with a scary novelty and even gets to give up his queen.

1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 e6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bh4 dxc4 7. e4 g5 8. Bg3 b5
9. Be2 Bb7 10. O-O Nbd7 11. Ne5 Bg7 12. Nxf7 there are several dozen previous games in this position but this hasn't been played before. It was prepared by Cheparinov over the last three years 12...Kxf7 13. e5 Nd5 14. Ne4 Ke7 15. Nd6
Qb6 16. Bg4 Raf8 17. Qc2 Qxd4 18. Qg6 Qxg4 19. Qxg7+ Kd8 20. Nxb7+ Kc8 21. a4 b4
22. Rac1 c3 23. bxc3 b3 24. c4 Rfg8 25. Nd6+ Kc7 26. Qf7 Rf8 27. cxd5 Rxf7 28.
Rxc6+ Kb8 29. Nxf7 Re8 30. Nd6 Rh8 31. Rc4 Qe2 32. dxe6 Nb6 33. Rb4 Ka8 34. e7
Nd5 35. Rxb3 Nxe7 36. Rfb1 Nd5 37. h3 h5 38. Nf7 Rc8 39. e6 a6 40. Nxg5 h4 41.
Bd6 Rg8 42. R3b2 Qd3 43. e7 Nf6 44. Be5 Nd7 45. Ne6 1-0

Carlsen lost as well so it's now Carlsen and Aronian +2, Kramnik Adams Radjabov Anand +1, Topalov Ivanchuk Mamedyarov Leko even, Van Wely and Polgar -1, Gelfand and Eljanov -3 with four games left.

Kevin Bonham
24-01-2008, 08:06 AM
Carlsen leads after giving a lesson in how not to play the Benko but winning anyway after van Wely ruined a completely won position.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 b5 4. cxb5 a6 5. bxa6 g6 6. Nc3 Bxa6 7. Nf3 d6 8. g3
Bg7 9. Bg2 Nbd7 10. Rb1 Qa5 11. Bd2 Nb6 12. b3 Qa3 13. O-O O-O 14. Ne1 Bb7 15.
Nc2 Qa6 16. e4 Ne8 17. a4 Nc7 18. Re1 Rae8 19. b4 Nd7 20. Nb5 Rc8 21. Bh3 f5 22.
Bg5 Ne5 23. bxc5 Qxa4 24. Nxc7 Rxc7 25. c6 Bc8 26. exf5 Rxf5 27. f4 Nc4 28. Rb4
Qa7+ 29. Kg2 Qc5 30. Rb8 Nb2 31. Qf3 Qxc2+ 32. Re2 Qb1 33. Bxf5 Qxf5 34. g4 Qf7
35. Bxe7 h5 36. Bxd6 hxg4 37. Qe4 Kh7 38. Bxc7 Bf5 39. Qe3 Qxd5+ 40. Kg3 Nc4 41.
Qf2 Qd3+ 42. Kg2 Be4+ 43. Rxe4 Qxe4+ 44. Kf1 Qd3+ 45. Qe2 Nd2+ 46. Ke1 Nf3+ 47.
Kf1 Nxh2+ 48. Ke1 Bc3+ 49. Kf2 g3+ 0-1

Something just a tad familiar about this game from the Honorary Group

Timman-Ljubojevic

1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 e6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bh4 dxc4 7. e4 g5 8. Bg3 b5
9. Be2 Bb7 10. O-O Nbd7 11. Ne5 Bg7 12. Nxf7 Kxf7 13. e5 Nd5 14. Ne4 Ke7 15. Nd6
Qb6 16. Bg4 Raf8 17. Qc2 Rhg8 18. a4 Ba8 19. Rfe1 Nc7 20. d5 cxd5 21. axb5 a5
22. b3 cxb3 23. Qh7 d4 24. Bh5 Nxb5 25. Nf7 b2 26. Rab1 Nc3 27. Nxh6 Rh8 28.
Qxg7+ Kd8 29. Nf7+ Kc7 30. Nxh8 Nxb1 31. Ng6 Rd8 32. h4 Nd2 33. hxg5 b1=Q 34.
Rxb1 Qxb1+ 35. Kh2 Nf1+ 36. Kh3 Ne3 37. fxe3 Qh1+ 38. Kg4 Qxg2 39. Qf7 dxe3 40.
Nh4 Qe4+ 41. Qf4 a4 42. Bf7 Nc5 0-1

... haven't had time to analyse it yet.

Kruupy
24-01-2008, 08:30 AM
I think Topalov was saying in his post mortem that he felt that Rg8 was one of the best lines for black. I also think Nc7 is nice (key move?)

pax
24-01-2008, 10:23 AM
Carlsen leads after giving a lesson in how not to play the Benko but winning anyway after van Wely ruined a completely won position.
Unbelievable. I went to bed after about move 20, certain that black was losing..

pax
24-01-2008, 10:27 AM
Carlsen has a tough finish with Anand, Kramnik and Radjabov to play. But he does have two whites.

Adamski
24-01-2008, 11:33 PM
According to Marin, Aronian actually had a technical tablebase draw for much of the ending against Kramnik and only became lost from move 103, which given that it is the tricky f and h pawn ending (where the defender often draws with absolutely perfect play) does not surprise me greatly.

Aronian bounced back yesterday, beating Radjabov to swap places with him, while Anand beat Polgar, also swapping places.
Did you folks see the photo in New In Chess, 2007/7, of Aronian, his second and Filipino Aussie WIM Arianne Caoili, which Aronian allegedly "wanted to resemble the album cover of a modern band"? I think people (including both Super-GM's and ex-NZ Champion FM's) are entitled to make the odd mistake when a game goes for more than 100 moves....

Kevin Bonham
25-01-2008, 11:42 AM
Did you folks see the photo in New In Chess, 2007/7, of Aronian, his second and Filipino Aussie WIM Arianne Caoili, which Aronian allegedly "wanted to resemble the album cover of a modern band"?

Haven't seen it.


I think people (including both Super-GM's and ex-NZ Champion FM's) are entitled to make the odd mistake when a game goes for more than 100 moves....

Indeed and I don't think anyone would criticise Aronian for fluffing a database draw in a position that is a technical draw but very difficult to defend, just as no-one would criticise Shirov for failing to win the database win he had in the World Cup semi-finals.

What Aronian was doing earlier in the game that caused him to get into such a bad position in the first place is rather more to the point. It is quite surprising to me that he was out of theory prematurely (by super-GM standards, not mine!) in such a sharp line that had been so topical lately and hence a very long way behind on the clock already when Kramnik uncorked the novelty Nc3. Kramnik's Nc3 is probably a very good move but Aronian would not have defended against it so badly had he not been so far behind on time.

Recently Mig Greengard suggested that a record of the time on the clocks should be a part of the game record for these games. I agree because in this case it would tell a lot of the story that is not told by just the moves.

Kevin Bonham
27-01-2008, 11:38 AM
Kramnik loses to Carlsen:

1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.g3 b6 5.Bg2 Bb7 6.0-0 Be7 7.d4 cxd4 8.Qxd4 d6 9.Rd1 a6 10.Ng5 Bxg2 11.Kxg2 Nc6 12.Qf4 0-0 13.Nce4 Ne8 14.b3 Ra7 15.Bb2 Rd7 16.Rac1 Nc7 17.Nf3 f5 18.Nc3 g5 19.Qd2 g4 20.Ne1 Bg5 21.e3 Rff7 22.Kg1 Ne8 23.Ne2 Nf6 24.Nf4 Qe8 25.Qc3 Rg7 26.b4 Ne4 27.Qb3 Rge7 28.Qa4 Ne5 29.Qxa6 Ra7 30.Qb5 Qxb5 31.cxb5 Rxa2 32.Rc8+ Kf7 33.Nfd3 Bf6 34.Nxe5+ dxe5 35.Rc2 Rea7 36.Kg2 Ng5 37.Rd6 e4 38.Bxf6 Kxf6 39.Kf1 Ra1 40.Ke2 Rb1 41.Rd1 Rxb4 42.Ng2 Rxb5 43.Nf4 Rc5 44.Rb2 b5 45.Kf1 Rac7 46.Rbb1 Rb7 47.Rb4 Rc4 48.Rb2 b4 49.Rdb1 Nf3 50.Kg2 Rd7 51.h3 e5 52.Ne2 Rd2 53.hxg4 fxg4 54.Rxd2 Nxd2 55.Rb2 Nf3 56.Kf1 b3 57.Kg2 Rc2 0-1

29.Qxa6 was apparently a very silly miscalculation. According to chessbase he did not realise that if 30.Qxb6 there follows ...Reb7 forcing 30.Qd4 when ...Bf6 wins either a piece or a queen for two pieces, which is really not that difficult to see.

Kevin Bonham
27-01-2008, 11:58 AM
Eljanov-Topalov, in which Topalov plays a piece sac that is either very speculative or just plain silly and loses again. Despite his glorious win over Kramnik, Topa has had a poor tournament generally and now sits at minus-one.

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.Nf3 g6 7.g3 Bg7 8.Bg2 0-0 9.0-0 Re8 10.Bf4 Bg4 11.Nd2 Nh5 12.Be3 Nd7 13.h3 Bxh3 14.Bxh3 Nxg3 15.fxg3 Rxe3 16.Rf3 Bd4 17.Rxe3 Bxe3+ 18.Kh1 Ne5 19.Nf1 Bh6 20.e4 a6 21.a4 Qb6 22.Qe2 c4 23.Nh2 Bg7 24.Rf1 Rf8 25.Ng4 Nxg4 26.Bxg4 Qc5 27.Kg2 Re8 28.Qf2 Qc7 29.Be2 Re7 30.Rc1 h5 31.Rc2 Re5 32.Bf3 Qe7 33.a5 Bf6 34.Kf1 Kg7 35.Ne2 Rg5 36.Rxc4 Bxb2 37.Nd4 Ba1 38.Ra4 Bc3 39.Qe3 Bb2 40.Rb4 Ba1 41.Rb1 Bxd4 42.Qxd4+ Re5 43.Kg2 h4 44.Rh1 hxg3 45.Qd2 g5 46.Qc3 1-0

...and continuing the theme of bad play, Adams (who up til now has done well) exchanges off into what appears to be a lost pawn ending against Polgar and duly loses it.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.d4 d5 6.Bd3 Nc6 7.0-0 Be7 8.Nc3 Bf5 9.Re1 Nxc3 10.bxc3 Bxd3 11.Qxd3 0-0 12.Rb1 Na5 13.Qf5 Re8 14.Bf4 g6 15.Qh3 Nc4 16.Ne5 Bd6 17.Nxc4 Bxf4 18.Rxe8+ Qxe8 19.Qf3 dxc4 20.Qxf4 Qe2 21.h3 b6 22.Qf3?! Qxf3 23.gxf3 a5 24.Re1 Kf8 25.Re4 Re8 26.Kf1 f5 27.Rxe8+? Kxe8 28.f4 Kd7 29.Ke2 Kd6 30.Kd2 Kc6 31.f3 Kd6 32.Ke3 Kd5 33.Ke2 Kd6 34.Kd2 Ke7 35.Ke3 Ke6 36.Ke2 g5 37.Ke3 Kf6 38.d5 h5 39.a3 g4 40.fxg4 fxg4 41.hxg4 hxg4 42.Ke4 b5 43.Kd4 Kf5 44.Ke3 a4 0-1

+3 Aronian, Carlsen
+2 Anand, Radjabov
+1 Ivanchuk
= Leko, Adams, Kramnik, Mamedyarov
-1 Topalov, Polgar
-2 Eljanov
-3 Van Wely
Tournament bunny on -4 Gelfand

The pairings that matter for the final round (in terms of chance of affecting first or a tie for first) are Polgar-Aronian, Carlsen-Radjabov and Anand-Kramnik