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Basil
01-09-2007, 08:36 PM
I'm primarily posting this for the two new Daniels. It seems to me that this is the sort of middle of the road stuff that they need to be processing for their abilities to improve to the 'next level'.

Of course it won't hurt stronger players to spend a few moments sharpening for the hell of it. And for the strong players, well munch and burp on this and then move on to the next thread ;)

And so ...
Black has the bishop pair (oooo scary ;)), white's king is in the middle of the board and black needs just a line or two opened for all hell to break loose.

White to play. What would be your move ... and more importantly, why?

Answers in white please (if so moved). I'm not answering anything more from the Daniels until they have posted here ;)

2kr3r/2p1qpb1/1pb1p2p/4P2R/PR1PN3/2P2N2/4Q1P1/4K3 w - - 3 23

Aaron Guthrie
01-09-2007, 08:57 PM
Move=a5 Why=Kill kill kill

Ok Ok, in more detail, the Black King has dodgey protection. Nc5 doesn't work. a5 works on prying open the already weak protection. If takes then Qa6+ is strong, if b5 then c5 is open for the knight, and Rxb5 right away is strong. So a5 is the move that seems to work on prying things open.

road runner
01-09-2007, 10:32 PM
Yes, I agree a5 seems to scream out to be played. Interesting line: 1. a5 bxa5 2.Qa6+ Kd7 3.Nc5+ Qxc5 4.dxc5 axb4 5. cxb4 Ra8 when I prefer white but it might not be so easy.

Kruupy
01-09-2007, 10:38 PM
ok I am not a strong player, I think this position looks pretty bad for white - especially after f6 so I like the move g4, if the g pawn then becomes attacked along the g-file some maneuvering of the f3 knight may be in order to allow the queen to defend. I think the aim is to try to attack blacks center pawns whilst playing a steady, defensive, drawish style of play. Comments Appreciated. Thanks All!

Basil
01-09-2007, 10:49 PM
Hi Kruupy. Probably a good time to read manga's and boris' posts for some initial feedback. And also probably re-read my initial comments about opening lines being dangerous for white.

DanielBell
01-09-2007, 10:49 PM
a5 seems right to me too, after looking at the two possible checks and trying to build off them I found that there was nothing that could be done with them, I figured the kings defense needed to be pulled apart and a pawn attack is usually an easy way to do that (in my limited experience!).. If black takes the pawn he'll lose material for sure from what I can see, If he ignores it or moves past it, any advance it makes becomes dangerous for black. Would black's best move to be to ignore the pawn? Moving past it or taking it seem to aid white's attack, at least if he lets white take his, he can perhaps use that time to counter white's attack..

Another move that seemed a bit risky to me, i'd probably do it if I was playing without thinking too much would have been Nc5 (which mangafranga says does not work hehe!), The king can escape and that knight isn't there to provide the attack any longer, my Queen and rook would be up where the king is, with no steam left, the key to that position is that knight on e4, but it's pretty useless with the b pawn where it is. a5 best deals with it.

Kevin Bonham
01-09-2007, 11:32 PM
Boris - you may find that 2.Nc5 is stronger than 2.Qa6, ie ...Qxc5 3.dxc5 axb4 4.Nd4 and Black has to give up the exchange. Still not straightforward with queen for two bishops.

Aaron Guthrie
02-09-2007, 02:12 AM
2.Qa6+ intending 5.Nd4 seems strongest to me.

Basil
02-09-2007, 05:10 PM
Here's that game for those curious enough to see a) how the position arose, and b) what happened. NB: Don't play the game through if you still want to analyse the original position.

I think the interesting thing is that white has to get going quickly - speed being a common theme, but one which more inexperienced players (me) often forget. The original position as shown in post #1 was conceived on the previous move and therefore the reason behind 23.Ne4.

While not an excellent game (in its entirety) for training, I think the two Daniels should be aiming to expose themselves to analysing positions (which perhaps they are doing already). I know I need to do more of it.

Carry on!

1. d4 g6 2. e4 d6 3. f4 Bg7 4. e5 dxe5 5. fxe5 e6 6. Nf3 Ne7 7. h4 a6 8. h5 gxh5 9. Rxh5 h6 10. Be3 Nbc6 11. c3 b6 12. Bd3 Bb7 13. Qe2 Nd5 14. Nbd2 Nxe3 15. Qxe3 Qe7 16. a4 a5 17. Bb5 O-O-O 18. Rb1 Rdg8 19. Qe2 Kb8 20. b4 axb4 21.Bxc6 Bxc6 22. Rxb4 Kc8 23. Ne4 Rd8 24. a5 bxa5 25. Nc5 Qxc5 26. dxc5 axb4 27.cxb4 Rd5 28. b5 Ba8 29. c6 Bf8 30. Rh4 Bc5 31. Ra4 Kb8 32. Qa2 Bb7 33. cxb7 Kxb7 34. Ra6 Rhd8 35. Rc6 Bb6 36. Qa6+ Kb8 37. Rxb6+ cxb6 38. Qxb6+ Ka8 39. Qa6+ Kb8 40. b6 R8d7 41. Kf2 Rb7 42. Kg3 Rd8 43. Kf4 Rd1 44. Qb5 Rd8 45. Ke4 Rg8 46. Nd4 Rh8 47. Nc6+ Kc8 48. Qc5 Kd7 49. Qd6+ Kc8 50. Ne7+ Rxe7 51. Qxe7 1-0