PDA

View Full Version : Victorian Close Championships



klyall
03-08-2007, 08:56 PM
Victorian Close Championship

In response requests from Victorian players, Chess Victoria provides the following planning information for players contemplating January 2008 event options.

Chess Victoria, at its Executive Meeting of 2/8/2007, agreed to accept proposals to run the 2008 Victorian Close Championship. The event should run over 2+ days and will be ACF rated.

Brian Jones from Australian Chess Enterprises kindly has offered a seeding amount of sponsorship.

The favoured time-frame coincides with th inaugural Canterbury Summer Open promoted in 2007 by Geoff Saw/Brian Jones.

Proposals should be submitted to the Secretary, Chess Victoria, Kerry Lyall, by the 20th August 2007 to the boxhillxxxx@bigpond.com. (Replace the x's by the word chess)

Kerry Lyall
Secretary
Chess Victoria

Bereaved
03-08-2007, 09:01 PM
Hi Kerry,

So what dates are we talking here?

Because I heard that there was to be an Australian Championships in Parramatta, and it would be a shame if people had to choose between these two events.....also time controls, format, round times would all be useful rather than no details at all,

Take care and God Bless, Macavity

PS the same applies for the other thread you started tonight about this year's state championship

Mischa
03-08-2007, 11:04 PM
what exactly is a Victorian Close Championship?
Other than close to Victoria?

Garvinator
04-08-2007, 01:36 AM
Hi Kerry,

So what dates are we talking here?

Because I heard that there was to be an Australian Championships in Parramatta, and it would be a shame if people had to choose between these two events.....also time controls, format, round times would all be useful rather than no details at all,

Take care and God Bless, Macavity

PS the same applies for the other thread you started tonight about this year's state championship
Since it co-incides with the Canterbuy Open, then it would first weekend in January.

So unless the Canterbury Open is going to be held in the second weekend (which I would be surprised about as this would clash with the Aus Juniors), then there will be a clash with the Aus Championship.

Nice to see once again that one state has respected the decision of the acf and are going to try really hard to make the Aus Championship work. Really does give the impression that CV and related parties have spat the dummy and are saying, since we didnt get the Aus Champs, then we wont support it.

I would love starter to post on this forum and debate the topic properly, instead of having to rely on crap brought over from other forums or on pm's, which I cant post on here.

Bill Gletsos
04-08-2007, 01:42 AM
I would love starter to post on this forum and debate the topic properly, instead of having to rely on crap brought over from other forums or on pm's, which I cant post on here.Actually you can bring over crap from other forums but not PM's as long as the crap isnt by a currently banned poster (i.e. MAtt Sweeney or [Alex]).

Garvinator
04-08-2007, 02:01 AM
Actually you can bring over crap from other forums but not PM's as long as the crap isnt by a currently banned poster (i.e. MAtt Sweeney or [Alex]).
I dont support bringing the crap over from 'there' at all and wish it wasnt done by anyone. But this isnt a moderation thread, so I will leave it at that.

Therefore, as I dont support it, I wont do it.

I do wonder though, will my post and now yours, bring a flurry of 'attacks' over there, remembering that there is now more than one 'over there' ;):whistle:

ER
04-08-2007, 02:14 AM
remembering that there is now more than one 'over there' ;):whistle:

G'day Garvin!
Geez I only got away for a couple of weeks and you people started the cryptics! Please clue me in about this "more than over there" business!
Cheers, good luck and cagles! :)

Spiny Norman
04-08-2007, 07:57 AM
what exactly is a Victorian Close Championship?
Other than close to Victoria?
Perhaps its a "Go away, we're closed" championship? Put guards on along to Murray to repel boarders?

Interesting development. Or perhaps not so much an interesting development, more like a curious development.

Denis_Jessop
04-08-2007, 01:20 PM
This move may be seen as a peevish response by CV to its bid for the Australian Championships being rejected and, indeed, ranked third of three by all the ACF Councillors who voted.

However there is another explanation based on the murky nature of Victorian/Afghan chess politics, namely that it is a shoddy attempt to undermine the Canterbury Open, run this year by Geoff Saw, much to the chagrin of the Box Hill CC that now is the de facto CV.

Brian Jones may see this as a business opportunity but he is unwise to send his troops to Afghanistan as the local warlords are a fearsome bunch.

DJ

Basil
04-08-2007, 01:42 PM
The Tool, I understood. A single entity: self-destruct, attention seeking, maximum collateral damage dirty bomb.

But this lot? Is there a hand-book? Or a list of the characters? If I understood what was going on, I could give one of my excellent rulings to save everyone the trouble.

MichaelBaron
04-08-2007, 01:43 PM
Could someone pls explain clearly what "Victorian Close(d) Championships" stands for?

I am really confused.

is it a) State championship (thats what closed championship is meant to stand for)
b)some other event (weekender?
c) alternative to the Aus Championship?

Bill Gletsos
04-08-2007, 01:48 PM
Could someone pls explain clearly what "Victorian Close(d) Championships" stands for?

I am really confused.

is it a) State championship (thats what closed championship is meant to stand for)
b)some other event (weekender?
c) alternative to the Aus Championship?Good question.

Here is an opinion given elsewhere by Trevor Stanning:

Now that I have had a chance to read carefully klyall's post, (and to use chesschat's PM facility), it is clear that CV are asking for proposals.
So, for example, a promoter may put forward that a Close Championship exclude all non-Victorians. This is a regular feature in many other sports.
Or, a promoter may put forward a proposal to include all chess players who do not make the likely cut-off for the Australian Championships. In this way, not a single Championship contender is excluded from the Parra. event.

I would expect the CV Executive to reserve the right to accept/reject a proposal after consideration of the criterion for Close.Make of it what you will. :whistle:

MichaelBaron
04-08-2007, 01:54 PM
Good question.

Here is an opinion given elsewhere by Trevor Stanning:
Make of it what you will. :whistle:

Still a bit confusing to be honest...:doh:

Basil
04-08-2007, 01:56 PM
I will not reset the Hydro-Soaker as the comments were made off-board!

Brian_Jones
04-08-2007, 02:31 PM
This move may be seen as a peevish response by CV to its bid for the Australian Championships being rejected and, indeed, ranked third of three by all the ACF Councillors who voted. DJ

Has a decision on the Australian Championships been taken by the ACF. Where is this published or formally announced?



Brian Jones may see this as a business opportunity but he is unwise to send his troops to Afghanistan as the local warlords are a fearsome bunch. DJ

Where did you get this from Denis? Victorians are very nice people! :)

Bill Gletsos
04-08-2007, 02:32 PM
I dont support bringing the crap over from 'there' at all and wish it wasnt done by anyone. But this isnt a moderation thread, so I will leave it at that.In which case why even bother mentioning crap over there in your original post.

Therefore, as I dont support it, I wont do it.You may not have brought any detail over but you chose to give it (the crap) a mention.

I do wonder though, will my post and now yours, bring a flurry of 'attacks' over there, remembering that there is now more than one 'over there' ;):whistle:MS's phone box seems to have become even more moribund since the tool site opened.

Denis_Jessop
04-08-2007, 04:21 PM
Has a decision on the Australian Championships been taken by the ACF. Where is this published or formally announced?




Where did you get this from Denis? Victorians are very nice people! :)


Progress was reported in the most recent issue of the ACF Newsletter, when a final outcome had not been reached, and the final outcome will be reported in the next one, due out next Friday. Various unofficial BB postings here and there have made the situation reasonably clear, unofficially. The ACF is quite open about these things :D . It just doesn't make premature announcements.:clap:

DJ

Denis_Jessop
04-08-2007, 04:54 PM
I do wonder though, will my post and now yours, bring a flurry of 'attacks' over there, remembering that there is now more than one 'over there'

Interestingly, though there are now two "over there", the flurry of attacks has come on one only, the second or newer one, and they include comments from the owner of the other one which looks moribund as it has from time to time in the past.

One of the attacks was from MOZ alias Mexican Oz, alias Starter alias Trevor Stanning who thinks that my post


However there is another explanation based on the murky nature of Victorian/Afghan chess politics, namely that it is a shoddy attempt to undermine the Canterbury Open, run this year by Geoff Saw, much to the chagrin of the Box Hill CC that now is the de facto CV.

was not based on fact. Let me assure him that it was but perhaps nobody has told him. He also assumed that I was trying to drive a wedge between Victorian clubs. Let me again assure him that that was not my intention and, moreover, that is unnecessary as he would well know if he was realistic.

The bid for the Australian Championships that he drew up is evidence of his being divorced from reality.

It reminds me of the proverb "All figures and no facts give Jack a light head."

DJ

Basil
04-08-2007, 05:11 PM
was not based on fact. Let me assure him that it was but perhaps nobody has told him. He also assumed that I was trying to drive a wedge between Victorian clubs. Let me again assure him that that was not my intention and, moreover, that is unnecessary as he would well know if he was realistic.

The bid for the Australian Championships that he drew up is evidence of his being divorced from reality.

It reminds me of the proverb "All figures and no facts give Jack a light head."

DJ

Denis, I am only reading this in passing, on account of any otherwise uncorroborated and or unsubstantiated reference from elsewhere being flushed from my radar on principle; but I fear that you may completely unnecessarily being sucked into the age-old trap of conversing with an idiot(s), at pain of people not being able to tell the difference.

Confused?

In short, no need to reference back to what's been said elsewhere (in self-justification or other) coz it's all dribble!

Carry on!

Denis_Jessop
04-08-2007, 05:37 PM
Denis, I am only reading this in passing, on account of any otherwise uncorroborated and or unsubstantiated reference from elsewhere being flushed from my radar on principle; but I fear that you may completely unnecessarily being sucked into the age-old trap of conversing with an idiot(s), at pain of people not being able to tell the difference.

Confused?

In short, no need to reference back to what's been said over (in self-justification) coz it's all dribble!

Carry on!


Which reminds me of another proverb "The best laid plans of mice and men find new cheese."

Also, having just referred to another thread, I now realise why the event is to be called the "Close" Championship. It is because it is so close to the one in November. :doh:

DJ

Bill Gletsos
06-08-2007, 09:23 PM
Elsewhere the obfuscating dribbler is suggesting that a Closed Championship is the same as a Close Championship.

What appears to be evading him is why even bother causing any possible confusion by calling the event a Close Championship as opposed to the usual Closed Championship.

Perhaps he can point to another Australian chess event that is called a Close event. :whistle:

Kevin Bonham
06-08-2007, 11:47 PM
Ignoring the Close/Closed distinction which may be someone being silly or may be someone being unaware of the usual terminology (or may even be a clerical error, let's hope so), either this thing is the event usually known as the Victorian Championships or it isn't.

If it is the Victorian Champs for 2008 then the 2007 champ gets to rest on their laurels for hardly any time at all before being expected to choose between defending their title in an understrength event (such that retention of the title will be a hollow triumph at best) or playing in the Aus Open and surrendering their title.

If it is not the Victorian Champs then why call it the "Close" Championships when you already have a state championship that is essentially much like any other "closed" champs? (And given that it is not the Victorian Champs why call it a state title at all?) Indeed the purpose of the whole concept of a closed championships is normally to distinguish a state or national championships from an Open tournament that is called an Open Championships but can be won by anyone. A tournament being a closed championships is quite compatible with outsiders playing in it so long as they cannot win the title.

There is actually no basis in the original post for MOZ's claim that CV are fishing for someone to propose a concept to go with the name. Perhaps he knows something we don't but let's hope not since his idea is even more bizarre than the surface appearance.

I can see now why Denis refers to Victorian chess as resembling Afghanistan, because it's hard to see how this concept would have got up if a state association had the kind of quality control one would expect from a broadly supported peak representative body.

Is this a MOZ idea?

Bill Gletsos
07-08-2007, 12:21 AM
Ignoring the Close/Closed distinction which may be someone being silly or may be someone being unaware of the usual terminology (or may even be a clerical error, let's hope so),Surely if either were the case starter (aka MOZ) would have pointed it out already. :whistle:

Kevin Bonham
07-08-2007, 12:40 AM
Surely if either were the case starter (aka MOZ) would have pointed it out already. :whistle:

Perhaps, but then he would have less nonsense to play his silly little word games with.

Basil
07-08-2007, 11:32 AM
Perhaps, but then he would have less nonsense to play his silly little word games with.
I believe it was Frosty ('Pull Yer Head In' Vol. 1 CD, released on Sony) that suggested that the silly little words games were OK :rolleyes:

I believe it was HRH Duggan that suggested perpetuating the silly little words games to distraction (and that's exactly what it is) deserves derision, humiliation and general jeering until 'the distracted' are fully sated.

Spiny Norman
07-08-2007, 12:19 PM
I believe it was Frosty ('Pull Yer Head In' Vol. 1 CD, released on Sony) that suggested that the silly little words games were OK :rolleyes:
As is so often the case, its the debut album that gets all the critical acclaim ... its the follow-up album that tends to get one consigned to the "where are they now" file. :doh:

arosar
07-08-2007, 12:34 PM
When is this event supposed to take place?

AR

Rincewind
07-08-2007, 12:39 PM
When is this event supposed to take place?


The favoured time-frame coincides with th inaugural Canterbury Summer Open promoted in 2007 by Geoff Saw/Brian Jones.

The CSO2007 was held in the first weekend of January 2007. So I guess their aiming for the same time-frame in 2008.

Kevin Bonham
08-08-2007, 08:36 PM
An item posted by MOZ elsewhere a day before my post above links (rather indistinctly - the word "here" doesn't look like a link until the cursor touches it) to a CV calendar which shows an event called "Vic._champ._reserves" in November. MOZ claims that this calendar "includes dates for the revamped 2008 Victorian Championship." but he is factually wrong (again!) as comparison of dates clearly shows that the calendar linked to is 2007 not 2008.

MOZ's further comments on the thread continue to suggest that he knows something, but provide no actual evidence that this is so. His evidence that this is not the Victorian Championships is a reference to his previous speculation about what kind of event CV may be seeking, which is useless since as I have already noted, there is no evidence in klyall's post above that CV intends a supply-your-own-concept bidding process.

To be fair I do strongly suspect that this potential event is indeed not the Victorian Championships, but in this case why give it such a strange and confusing name?

Contra to this the TCA actually retitled the "Tasmanian Open Championships" to simply "Tasmanian Open" to prevent the name from continually causing confusion with the real state championships (aka Closed Championships).

Given that CV have advertised this potential event here perhaps they should also, here, clear the air about exactly what it is.

(MOZ also accuses me, without evidence, of relying on carrier-pigeon versions of posts on this matter. This accusation is, of course, total rubbish.)

Ian Rout
09-08-2007, 09:24 AM
I thought the reference to the event taking "2+ days" might mean it is or could be a rapid, and so could be the State rapid championship, though if so why not call it that?

This business of creating a Championship and then deciding later what it is for seems a bit strange. Do we know that it is actually chess?

Basil
09-08-2007, 09:29 AM
Here We Go Loopy Loo, Here We Go Loopy Lye ... Here We Go Loopy Loo , All Part Of A Victorian Fight ...


I thought the reference to the event taking "2+ days" might mean it is or could be a rapid, and so could be the State rapid championship, though if so why not call it that?
It's a discombombulation!


This business of creating a Championship and then deciding later what it is for seems a bit strange. Do we know that it is actually chess? :P

Davidflude
09-08-2007, 09:02 PM
This move may be seen as a peevish response by CV to its bid for the Australian Championships being rejected and, indeed, ranked third of three by all the ACF Councillors who voted.

However there is another explanation based on the murky nature of Victorian/Afghan chess politics, namely that it is a shoddy attempt to undermine the Canterbury Open, run this year by Geoff Saw, much to the chagrin of the Box Hill CC that now is the de facto CV.

Brian Jones may see this as a business opportunity but he is unwise to send his troops to Afghanistan as the local warlords are a fearsome bunch.

DJ

What a load of cobblers awls. the Box hill chess club helped a lot with the tournament. Board. clocks, PC's rooms etc and are members helped in all directions. I was amazed at how many people who were unable to play the championship tournament turned up.

Mischa
09-08-2007, 09:15 PM
??

ER
10-08-2007, 02:47 AM
What a load of cobblers awls.

Hey Howie, I nominate David for a special award for cobblers awls!!!
Cheers and good luck! :)