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Ian Murray
14-11-2019, 11:12 AM
....but group where it was shared allows only members to see.

Ah, one of those. No science allowed

Ian Murray
14-11-2019, 11:18 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/greens-are-slammed-over-extraordinary-claims-firefighters-battling-australias-devastating-blazes-will-return-home-to-bash-their-partners/ar-BBWH7vT?ocid=spartanntp&fbclid=IwAR1BrupXPIE24ne5b1TYBKHuMIGaUz1dgkC99fzJl OA1PQ_fQv_v9NrZbzw

And of course we know, Global warming Increases Domestic Violence....at least according to the Greens that is!

You didn't read that article either, did you? Where it says:


A statement from Senator Waters said the party 'does not support the statement made today by Sherele Moody that firefighters are responsible for an increase in domestic violence during times of disaster'.

'Ms Moody is not affiliated with the Greens and does not speak for us,' the statement read.

'Today's press conference with Senator Waters was held to receive a petition regarding the Family Law Inquiry.'

'Ms Moody chose to make comments regarding matters unrelated to the press conference without our prior knowledge.'

idledim
14-11-2019, 11:46 AM
Poor old Oz having to replace Jon Kudelka with Johannes Leak.

3940

And of course all the best cartoonist now live in Tassie - First Dog on the Moon (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/13/we-mustnt-bring-politics-into-the-disastrous-situation-that-was-created-by-wait-for-it-politics)

3942

Ian Murray
14-11-2019, 12:35 PM
@SBSNews

Watch now as former Australian fire chiefs unite to demand the government act now against the 'urgent threat' of climate change

https://www.pscp.tv/w/cJyJxTExMzI5MXwxUkR4bE5tRW9qb0dMQi9zjcndRPlrVKNNsJ c9WP6xy3TIlUc_SqSlYuSJnAY= …

Blunderbuss
14-11-2019, 01:13 PM
@SBSNews

Watch now as former Australian fire chiefs unite to demand the government act now against the 'urgent threat' of climate change

https://www.pscp.tv/w/cJyJxTExMzI5MXwxUkR4bE5tRW9qb0dMQi9zjcndRPlrVKNNsJ c9WP6xy3TIlUc_SqSlYuSJnAY= …


Powerful stuff, but I sense a change in the publics sentiment...


"The climate debate reminds me of the shenanigans over same sex marriage. Both parties locked themselves into right wing positions to placate a supposedly conservative electorate and then became quite unhinged as the sentiment changed." @Jeff_Sparrow (https://twitter.com/Jeff_Sparrow/status/1193996045828509696)

Ian Murray
14-11-2019, 01:19 PM
Chuck in a few more expert findings:

Coalition inaction on climate change and health is risking Australian lives, global report finds (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/14/coalition-inaction-on-climate-change-and-health-is-risking-australian-lives-global-report-finds?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlBVVM tMTkxMTE0&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayAUS&CMP=GTAU_email)
The Guardian
14.11.19

The federal government’s lack of engagement on health and climate change has left Australians at significant risk of illness through heat, fire and extreme weather events, and urgent national action is required to prevent harm and deaths, a global scientific collaboration has found.

On Thursday, international medical journal the Lancet published its Countdown report, a multi-institutional project led by University College in London that examines progress on climate change and health throughout the world....

Ian Murray
14-11-2019, 01:29 PM
Coalwire 14.11.19

https://mailchi.mp/b60f9cb66d64/indian-power-demand-slumps-anglo-american-hints-at-thermal-coal-exit-germany-backtracks-on-exit-plans?e=55329c26ad

Ian Murray
15-11-2019, 07:09 PM
South Australia household batteries keeps lights on in Queensland after coal unit fails (https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-australia-household-batteries-keeps-lights-on-in-queensland-after-coal-unit-fails-51385/)

The South Australia government and the Australian Energy Market Operator have hailed the success of the state’s solar and battery virtual power plant, after it came to the rescue during an unexpected coal power outage in Queensland last month.

AEMO said on Friday that on October 9, the South Australia VPP – which currently combines the stored solar resource of hundreds of homes with rooftop PV and storage – injected energy into the National Electricity Market (NEM) in response to a large generator outage in the Sunshine State.

The outage at Queensland’s Kogan Creek coal power station happened when the unit – the biggest single unit in Australia – tripped, reducing supply by 784MW, and causing the power system to drop well below the normal level of system frequency.

The VPP detected the frequency drop and immediately injected power into the grid from residential batteries installed on SA Housing Trust properties across the state, contributing with other providers to return the system back to normal, said South Australia energy minister Dan van Holst Pellekaan in a separate statement....

Ian Murray
16-11-2019, 10:33 AM
Actually, it is climate change (https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/politics/2019/11/16/actually-it-climate-change/15738228009076)

As the prime minister refuses to discuss the science linking climate change and the bushfires burning in eastern Australia, former Howard adviser Geoff Cousins compares the political strategy to the tactics of the American gun lobby.

...“Morrison and all the others – the deputy prime minister, all the cabinet ministers who refuse to talk about it – are hollow men,” Cousins says. “And their gestures are hollow gestures.”

Cousins says the response of government this week to those who talked about fossil fuel and climate change was straight out of the NRA playbook.

But here’s the thing: the prime minister, who styles himself as the champion of quiet Australians, failed to make Australians quiet. People – not just the usual advocates of climate action, but also rural mayors, firefighters and fire victims – continued to demand the government acknowledge the causes of the disaster and commit to action....

Back in April, more than 20 former fire chiefs from all states and territories issued a joint statement making the same points: that climate change was lengthening Australia’s fire season and making fires more intense. They called for increased resources for forestry management, national parks, and urban and rural fire services. And they noted that many governments were instead cutting the budgets for these services. They were ignored.

Another point the fire chiefs emphasised was that fires are affecting areas that have never burned before.

Mark Graham, an ecologist, can attest to that.

“There are areas now burning at an intensity and in a season at which they never have before,” he says.

“And there are communities, vegetation communities such as rainforest communities, which have ancient lineages, where fire has simply never occurred, moist refuges in the landscape since before the break-up of Gondwana, back 60, 80, 100 million years.”...

Bandt called on the prime minister to “apologise to the Australian people for putting their towns and lives at risk”.

McCormack was livid. What people needed now, he said, was real practical assistance, not “the ravings of some pure, enlightened and woke capital-city greenies”.

When program host Hamish Macdonald repeatedly pointed out that concerns about climate change and demands for greater government action were not coming from only the urban Greens, but also from rural mayors, former and current firefighters, and fire victims themselves, the deputy prime minister dodged. He even suggested the 23 former fire chiefs might be a “front group” for the Green...

More importantly, though, neither the Greens nor any of Australia’s main conservation groups express “fervent opposition” to hazard reduction. They accept that many of Australia’s ecosystems are fire-adapted and need occasional burning to maintain biodiversity.

And while they apply certain caveats – about fire intensity, which ecosystems should and should not be burned et cetera – their position on fire, like their position on climate change, reflects the best science. To suggest otherwise is to be guilty of either ignorance or deliberate untruth....

“When you have catastrophic fire weather, you have catastrophic fire irrespective of the fuel load. It doesn’t matter if you have burned off the litter, because a catastrophic fire goes through the canopy and showers embers kilometres ahead of the fire front.”...

“If the world fails to mitigate greenhouse emissions, quickly, by 2040 we will get 1.5 degrees of global warming … By the end of this century, three to five. You can only imagine the consequences.”

This week those consequences became a little easier to imagine, and that is the problem for Australia’s major political parties, neither of which betrays any intention to seriously address the climate crisis.

As the week wore on, the efforts by right-wing politicians and their media surrogates to distract and lay off blame grew more ridiculous. Former Nationals leader Barnaby Joyce, a climate change denier of long standing, told Sky News that changes to the sun’s magnetic field could be the cause of the fires. He also, unaccountably, speculated that two people who died in the fires were probably Greens voters....

This past northern summer saw hundreds of wildfires burning across millions of hectares of the Arctic, from Alaska to Russia to Scandinavia and Greenland. In California last year, fires raged across more than 750,000 hectares. Some 100 people died and the cost in insurance claims alone was more than $US12 billion. This year, another 100,000 hectares burned.

Spain and Greece were ravaged by deadly fires driven by dry winds and record temperatures this northern summer. Across the countries of the European Union, 1600 fires were recorded to mid-August – more than three times the long-term yearly average.

The litany of disaster goes on and on. The science is unequivocal; the changes are happening even faster than it predicted....

Blunderbuss
16-11-2019, 09:28 PM
Poor old Oz having to replace Jon Kudelka with Johannes Leak.

Jon seems happy with his new paper - @jonkudelka5 (https://twitter.com/jonkudelka/status/1195424171209048065)

Ian Murray
17-11-2019, 07:42 AM
Antarctica’s first zero emission research station shows that sustainable living is possible anywhere (https://theconversation.com/antarcticas-first-zero-emission-research-station-shows-that-sustainable-living-is-possible-anywhere-113977?fbclid=IwAR1NzJTkDi-CJ09PNh7UBLEl6UPgDh3cK8Z-qW0RuR8fPaPrDwmuej7RxVU)

...Antarctica is the most remote and inhospitable place on Earth, so it’s no surprise that people based there have struggled to break out of convenient habits. It’s cold. There are 24 hours of darkness in winter. Icicles build up on solar panels operating during the summer months and the concrete foundations for wind turbines won’t set in the cold. It’s expensive to ship in renewable energy components and it’s difficult to find warm and dry places to keep large batteries for storing energy.

These challenges are real, and yet, I’ve seen how they can be overcome at Antarctica’s only zero-emission research base, the Princess Elisabeth Antarctica Research Station in East Antarctica. The base is staffed during the summer season from October to March, when the majority of scientists – like me – conduct their research. ...

While these stations all have similar traits, the Princess Elisabeth stands out. I have never seen anything like it. Almost every inch is covered in solar panels – on the roof, on the walls, on the side of sleeping containers. They are even screwed to frames anchored to the ground.

Solar panels have to be mounted high above the snow-covered ground to capture the 24 hours of daylight during the austral summer. Wind turbines are drilled into the granite ridge beneath the snow and ice, removing the need for large concrete foundations. Their blades are maintained with carefully designed polar lubricants, but they can shut down production during intense storms. These renewable energy sources melt snow for water, which is filtered and reused on site to reduce waste....

Ian Murray
17-11-2019, 09:30 AM
Climate change: why Sweden’s central bank dumped Australian bonds (https://theconversation.com/climate-change-why-swedens-central-bank-dumped-australian-bonds-126766)


What’s happening?

Suddenly, at the level of central banks, Australia is regarded as an investment risk.

On Wednesday Martin Flodén, the deputy governor of Sweden’s central bank, announced that because Australia and Canada were “not known for good climate work”.

As a result the bank had sold its holdings of bonds issued by the Canadian province of Alberta and by the Australian states of Queensland and Western Australia.
Martin Flodén, deputy governor Sveriges Riksbank Central Bank of Sweden

Central banks normally make the news when they change their “cash rate” and households pay less (or more) on their mortgages.

But central banks such as Australia’s Reserve Bank and the European Central Bank, the People’s Bank of China and the US Federal Reserve have broader responsibilities.

They can see climate change affecting their ability to manage their economies and deliver financial stability. ...

MichaelBaron
17-11-2019, 09:38 AM
Climate change: why Sweden’s central bank dumped Australian bonds (https://theconversation.com/climate-change-why-swedens-central-bank-dumped-australian-bonds-126766)


What’s happening?

Suddenly, at the level of central banks, Australia is regarded as an investment risk.

On Wednesday Martin Flodén, the deputy governor of Sweden’s central bank, announced that because Australia and Canada were “not known for good climate work”.

As a result the bank had sold its holdings of bonds issued by the Canadian province of Alberta and by the Australian states of Queensland and Western Australia.
Martin Flodén, deputy governor Sveriges Riksbank Central Bank of Sweden

Central banks normally make the news when they change their “cash rate” and households pay less (or more) on their mortgages.

But central banks such as Australia’s Reserve Bank and the European Central Bank, the People’s Bank of China and the US Federal Reserve have broader responsibilities.

They can see climate change affecting their ability to manage their economies and deliver financial stability. ...

Like if before Sweden was investing heavily in the Australian bonds :). It just another ''political gesture.''

Ian Murray
17-11-2019, 10:33 AM
Like if before Sweden was investing heavily in the Australian bonds :). It just another ''political gesture.''

Sweden had invested around 8 per cent of its foreign exchange reserves in various kinds of Australian and Canadian bonds.

https://www.afr.com/world/europe/sweden-sells-off-canada-australia-bonds-over-climate-change-20191114-p53akq

MichaelBaron
17-11-2019, 05:38 PM
https://theconversation.com/antarcticas-first-zero-emission-research-station-shows-that-sustainable-living-is-possible-anywhere-113977?fbclid=IwAR0t60PoiwI9cYK2gMxD6xcwJtRCrolbMW TwdiSZy7laRwUpp-llLdvLEGM
Quote from the article:


''Unnecessary luxuries like showering or laundry are at the bottom of the list for energy need priorities. We shower once or twice a week, ''

As someone who takes a shower every day....I am horrified about all the damage done...but would be horrified more...if people around me stop showering to preserve our stinky (once they do stop) planet.

Patrick Byrom
17-11-2019, 05:47 PM
https://theconversation.com/antarcticas-first-zero-emission-research-station-shows-that-sustainable-living-is-possible-anywhere-113977?fbclid=IwAR0t60PoiwI9cYK2gMxD6xcwJtRCrolbMW TwdiSZy7laRwUpp-llLdvLEGM
Quote from the article:
''Unnecessary luxuries like showering or laundry are at the bottom of the list for energy need priorities. We shower once or twice a week, ''
As someone who takes a shower every day....I am horrified about all the damage done...but would be horrified more...if people around me stop showering to preserve our stinky (once they do stop) planet.Didn't you even read the title of that article? They're in Antarctica - sweating is not a problem.

MichaelBaron
17-11-2019, 06:16 PM
Didn't you even read the title of that article? They're in Antarctica - sweating is not a problem.

So they do not wear warm clothes? or shall they freeze as well to avoid sweating? :) Is it normal for people ''not to take showers'' because they believe they did not ''sweat much''.
I am curious if any chesschatters are currently supporting the world by not taking showers? :)

antichrist
17-11-2019, 06:29 PM
So they do not wear warm clothes? or shall they freeze as well to avoid sweating? :) Is it normal for people ''not to take showers'' because they believe they did not ''sweat much''.
I am curious if any chesschatters are currently supporting the world by not taking showers? :)

Forty years ago throughout China many people only showered once a week at
communal bathing houses and they considered it such a treat they would stay for hours for massages, newspapers and tea. When up close up in public transport they were not offensive.

MichaelBaron
17-11-2019, 06:31 PM
Forty years ago throughout China many people only showered once a week at
communal bathing houses and they considered it such a treat they would stay for hours for massages, newspapers and tea. When up close up in public transport they were not offensive.

Centuries ago...those living in caves had a lot of issues with showering during winter months...

antichrist
17-11-2019, 06:36 PM
Centuries ago...those living in caves had a lot of issues with showering during winter months...

If you go over the GDR during this drought period you will find many people only showering weekly. But they will wash their vital parts and feet every night in a dish.

Patrick Byrom
17-11-2019, 06:39 PM
So they do not wear warm clothes? or shall they freeze as well to avoid sweating? :)Wearing warm clothes doesn't mean that you sweat a lot.

Is it normal for people ''not to take showers'' because they believe they did not ''sweat much''.It is in Russia, where only 30% of men shower daily - hence the term "Russian shower".

I am curious if any chesschatters are currently supporting the world by not taking showers? :)Cold showers make effectively no contribution to greenhouse gases.

MichaelBaron
17-11-2019, 06:49 PM
If you go over the GDR during this drought period you will find many people only showering weekly. But they will wash their vital parts and feet every night in a dish.

There are also people who live on the street, 3d world countries etc. When people do not have a choice its another story. but to remain unshowered for days is not something i would expect people to do given a choice!

MichaelBaron
17-11-2019, 06:50 PM
Wearing warm clothes doesn't mean that you sweat a lot.
It is in Russia, where only 30% of men shower daily - hence the term "Russian shower".
Cold showers make effectively no contribution to greenhouse gases.

In cities, educated people shower daily in Russia...as for others - shall they learn from us or shall we learn from them? So when will you stop taking showers daily to reduce the warming? :)

Patrick Byrom
17-11-2019, 08:09 PM
In cities, educated people shower daily in Russia...as for others - shall they learn from us or shall we learn from them? So when will you stop taking showers daily to reduce the warming? :)You're saying that only 30% of Russians are educated?


Cold showers make effectively no contribution to greenhouse gases.

MichaelBaron
17-11-2019, 09:11 PM
You're saying that only 30% of Russians are educated?

Or others are living in 3d world conditions. Parts of Russia are 3d world. But they are certainly not skipping showers to save the planet. Or yes, some houses in Russia have no water supplies.

Ian Murray
17-11-2019, 09:41 PM
.... Or yes, some houses in Russia have no water supplies.

Arctic research stations also have limited water supplies, relying on snow melt limited by the energy needed to melt the snow.

Patrick Byrom
17-11-2019, 10:21 PM
Arctic research stations also have limited water supplies, relying on snow melt limited by the energy needed to melt the snow.Which can mean limited opportunities for showering (http://www.antarctica.gov.au/about-antarctica/people-in-antarctica/water): "Expeditioners are limited to three minute showers and, when water supplies are short, to only shower every second or third day. Other water saving measures are also followed, such as doing one large load of washing rather than several smaller loads, and turning off the taps while cleaning your teeth."

MichaelBaron
17-11-2019, 11:11 PM
Which can mean limited opportunities for showering (http://www.antarctica.gov.au/about-antarctica/people-in-antarctica/water): "Expeditioners are limited to three minute showers and, when water supplies are short, to only shower every second or third day. Other water saving measures are also followed, such as doing one large load of washing rather than several smaller loads, and turning off the taps while cleaning your teeth."

Another reason not to limit them even more!

Ian Murray
18-11-2019, 07:39 PM
Only rebellion will prevent an ecological apocalypse (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/15/rebellion-prevent-ecological-apocalypse-civil-disobedience?fbclid=IwAR1LuYGSsHegdiKLThqdKbY9GMQk uYe-I3CpPgs3awCGGdcQ5BleK0aFaZU)

...As the environmental crisis accelerates, and as protest movements like YouthStrike4Climate and Extinction Rebellion make it harder not to see what we face, people discover more inventive means of shutting their eyes and shedding responsibility. Underlying these excuses is a deep-rooted belief that if we really are in trouble, someone somewhere will come to our rescue: “they” won’t let it happen. But there is no they, just us. ...

Those who govern the nation and shape public discourse cannot be trusted with the preservation of life on Earth. There is no benign authority preserving us from harm. No one is coming to save us. None of us can justifiably avoid the call to come together to save ourselves. ...

Today, Extinction Rebellion takes to streets around the world in defence of our life-support systems. Through daring, disruptive, nonviolent action, it forces our environmental predicament on to the political agenda. Who are these people? Another “they”, who might rescue us from our follies? The success of this mobilisation depends on us. It will reach the critical threshold only if enough of us cast aside denial and despair, and join this exuberant, proliferating movement. The time for excuses is over. The struggle to overthrow our life-denying system has begun.

antichrist
18-11-2019, 08:06 PM
I would have preferred something like organising mass bicycles commuting into CBDs taking up one whole lane of main road traffic. So it is inclusive, less disruptive and shows a practical alternative. Then try and get positive news articles showing the socialising that can take place during such. Have organised watering and de-watering holes supported by the community. So over time there will be layer upon layer of positive re-enforcement and certain groups can organise their own permanent groups. All the Israel Folaus for example can have their own group. The dykes on bikes their own group. Chess players their own group etc etc.. Have buses passing by about 15 minutes passing by the cyclists for any stragglers in a hurry or buggered etc etc.. Give it a year and a whole new way of life evolves. Have VIPs welcoming the cyclists in the CBD - anyone with a name.

Ian Murray
19-11-2019, 09:20 AM
https://www.facebook.com/ClimateNewsHub/videos/542313633165943/

Blunderbuss
19-11-2019, 10:24 AM
Morrison, Putin, Bolsonaro, Trump. How good a list is that!

As a new Australian it is shocking to see our PM headline this list. He also makes it on to this longer list demagogues-fury-violence-outrage-discourse (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/03/demagogues-fury-violence-outrage-discourse)


In every age there have been political hucksters using aggression, lies and outrage to drown out reasoned argument. But not since the 1930s have so many succeeded.

Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, Narendra Modi, Jair Bolsonaro, Scott Morrison, Rodrigo Duterte, Nicolás Maduro, Viktor Orbán and many others have discovered that the digital age offers rich pickings. The anger and misunderstanding that social media generates, exacerbated by troll factories, bots and covertly funded political advertising, spill into real life.

MichaelBaron
19-11-2019, 01:01 PM
Only rebellion will prevent an ecological apocalypse (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/15/rebellion-prevent-ecological-apocalypse-civil-disobedience?fbclid=IwAR1LuYGSsHegdiKLThqdKbY9GMQk uYe-I3CpPgs3awCGGdcQ5BleK0aFaZU)

...As the environmental crisis accelerates, and as protest movements like YouthStrike4Climate and Extinction Rebellion make it harder not to see what we face, people discover more inventive means of shutting their eyes and shedding responsibility. Underlying these excuses is a deep-rooted belief that if we really are in trouble, someone somewhere will come to our rescue: “they” won’t let it happen. But there is no they, just us. ...

Those who govern the nation and shape public discourse cannot be trusted with the preservation of life on Earth. There is no benign authority preserving us from harm. No one is coming to save us. None of us can justifiably avoid the call to come together to save ourselves. ...

Today, Extinction Rebellion takes to streets around the world in defence of our life-support systems. Through daring, disruptive, nonviolent action, it forces our environmental predicament on to the political agenda. Who are these people? Another “they”, who might rescue us from our follies? The success of this mobilisation depends on us. It will reach the critical threshold only if enough of us cast aside denial and despair, and join this exuberant, proliferating movement. The time for excuses is over. The struggle to overthrow our life-denying system has begun.

Struggle to overthrow....gosh..big words all over :).

MichaelBaron
19-11-2019, 01:02 PM
I would have preferred something like organising mass bicycles commuting into CBDs taking up one whole lane of main road traffic. So it is inclusive, less disruptive and shows a practical alternative. Then try and get positive news articles showing the socialising that can take place during such. Have organised watering and de-watering holes supported by the community. So over time there will be layer upon layer of positive re-enforcement and certain groups can organise their own permanent groups. All the Israel Folaus for example can have their own group. The dykes on bikes their own group. Chess players their own group etc etc.. Have buses passing by about 15 minutes passing by the cyclists for any stragglers in a hurry or buggered etc etc.. Give it a year and a whole new way of life evolves. Have VIPs welcoming the cyclists in the CBD - anyone with a name.

There were bycicle provided literally free in Melbourne...but the initiative failed...I wonder if protesters usually walk to the place they protest or go by train? Some may even drive :)

Ian Murray
19-11-2019, 03:15 PM
https://www.facebook.com/climatecouncil/videos/441031683275694/

antichrist
19-11-2019, 04:55 PM
I was surprised the long grass outside of ballina is absolutely brown, the first time I have witnessed that in 50 plus years of coming here.

idledim
19-11-2019, 05:47 PM
https://www.facebook.com/ClimateNewsHub/videos/542313633165943/

A great photo to celebrate today's 10th. anniversary of Climategate.

Ian Murray
19-11-2019, 06:00 PM
A great photo to celebrate today's 10th. anniversary of Climategate.

Storm in a teacup (https://skepticalscience.com/Climategate-CRU-emails-hacked.htm)

Patrick Byrom
19-11-2019, 07:12 PM
Storm in a teacup (https://skepticalscience.com/Climategate-CRU-emails-hacked.htm)It's fascinating to look back at this thread, and see all the claims that global heating wasn't happening which have now faded into oblivion: The Great Global Warming Swindle 'documentary', the Climategate hack, the so-called 'Pause' - and probably others I've forgotten. While the scientific consensus has just grown stronger and stronger over the past ten years.

Patrick Byrom
19-11-2019, 07:16 PM
Even Morrison has now recognised the value of renewables and battery storage (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-19/sa-big-battery-set-to-get-even-bigger/11716784):

South Australia's big Tesla battery's output and storage will increase by 50 per cent, with help from the State and Federal Government. Once labelled the "Hollywood solution" by Prime Minister Scott Morrison, who also likened it to the world's biggest banana or the world's biggest prawn, the expansion will be financed through the Federal Government's Clean Energy Finance Corporation.

Blunderbuss
19-11-2019, 07:56 PM
A great photo to celebrate today's 10th. anniversary of Climategate.

Celebrate? I don't think so. Climategate-science-of-a-scandal-review-the-hack-that-cursed-our-planet (https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/nov/14/climategate-science-of-a-scandal-review-the-hack-that-cursed-our-planet)


Two independent inquiries and a government select committee exonerated the CRU of all the accusations hurled at it. “There is no evidence of any deliberate scientific malpractice … The rigour and honesty of the scientists is not in doubt.” On the 10th anniversary of Climategate, it would have been nice to see the rigour and honesty of their accusers interrogated more closely, but at least the scientists finally got to tell their side of the story.

The scandal almost certainly contributed to the lack of success of the 2009 Copenhagen climate conference that followed. Fossil fuel industry-funded researchers have since carried out their own studies on the hockey stick data. They yielded precisely the same results as the original. The injustice still burns, along with the world.

Blunderbuss
19-11-2019, 08:02 PM
A great photo to celebrate today's 10th. anniversary of Climategate.

By the way just checking you do know it's not just a photo don't you? You should try clicking on it - magic happens and you get a taste of how Australia appears to the rest of the world - Spolier alert - Not good.

Ian Murray
19-11-2019, 09:19 PM
This one too - click image to start video


https://www.facebook.com/ABCTV/videos/466982060608688/

idledim
19-11-2019, 09:56 PM
Celebrate? I don't think so. Climategate-science-of-a-scandal-review-the-hack-that-cursed-our-planet (https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/nov/14/climategate-science-of-a-scandal-review-the-hack-that-cursed-our-planet)


Two independent inquiries and a government select committee exonerated the CRU of all the accusations hurled at it. “There is no evidence of any deliberate scientific malpractice … The rigour and honesty of the scientists is not in doubt.” On the 10th anniversary of Climategate, it would have been nice to see the rigour and honesty of their accusers interrogated more closely, but at least the scientists finally got to tell their side of the story.

The scandal almost certainly contributed to the lack of success of the 2009 Copenhagen climate conference that followed. Fossil fuel industry-funded researchers have since carried out their own studies on the hockey stick data. They yielded precisely the same results as the original. The injustice still burns, along with the world.

It is certainly true that climategate scuttled Copenhagen.

Climategate destroyed warmists’ moral high ground and reinforced the natural reluctance of most governments to up-end their economies with emission controls. The Copenhagen circus fell apart, resolving merely to “take note” of the exhortations to action by Obama and like-minded leaders.


As to the rigour of the subsequent investigations -

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/09/climategate-plausibility-and-the-blogosphere-in-the-post-normal-age/

See also:

https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2019/11/ten-years-after-climategate/

https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2019/11/climategate-and-post-normal-science/

Blunderbuss
19-11-2019, 10:43 PM
It is certainly true that climategate scuttled Copenhagen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lslIyHo6zg

idledim
20-11-2019, 11:56 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lslIyHo6zg

Understanding the Climategate Inquiries (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.175.4664&rep=rep1&type=pdf)

Patrick Byrom
20-11-2019, 01:22 PM
Understanding the Climategate Inquiries (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.175.4664&rep=rep1&type=pdf)That ten year old document has been mugged by reality :)

idledim
20-11-2019, 01:59 PM
That ten year old document has been mugged by reality :)

"Mugged by reality" is an apt description of UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon's 2007 statement that sea levels might rise six metres by 2017 if we didn't take the Kool-Aid. It is also an apt description of what happened at the Copenhagen conference following the Climategate emails release just before it. It's not an apt description of Ross McKitrick's detailed and thoughtful review of the Climategate Inquiries. An apt description of your response to his review would include phrases like 'characteristic pithy rhetorical assertion that confuses a review of the Climategate Inquiries with a review of the climate science.'

Blunderbuss
20-11-2019, 02:52 PM
.. Ross McKitrick's detailed and thoughtful review of the Climategate Inquiries...

Nine years is a long time in climate denial McKitrick appears to have moved from not accepting the science. To okay it's happening but it's not going to be all bad...

www.desmogblog.com/ross-mckitrick (https://www.desmogblog.com/ross-mckitrick)


McKitrick appeared on the Heartland Daily Podcast hosted by Anthony Watts. [56]

...
While McKitrick conceded fossil fuel consumption increases CO2 in the atmosphere and concurrently raises overall temperatures, he concludes this is a good thing and we will adapt: [56]


“We do put a lot of CO2 into the air. Using fossil fuels has led to a large amount of CO2 going into the atmosphere over a fairly short period of time. And I think in a sense we’ve dodged a bullet, because it turns out, from the evidence that I’ve seen and I think the evidence out there, that the effect of this extra CO2 is very much on the low end of the scale from what it could have been. […] [56]

“Even if the upper end of the global warming projections turned out to be valid, we still might, on economic grounds, just say it’s still too good a deal to pass up. [56]

“We’re going to live with the consequences and we’re going to keep using fossil fuels. But it’s even better than that. I think the best evidence says, no, we’ll probably get a bit of warming from CO2 but it’s going to be on the low end and it’s a mix of good and bad changes to the climate, and it’s also just stuff that we can adapt to over time.” [56]


What a fine day to have this debate when all the mainland Australian States and NT hit 40+ degrees celsius as some wag says below ACT? Yes, we should act. @p_hannam (https://twitter.com/p_hannam/status/1196978242202136576)

idledim
20-11-2019, 03:30 PM
Nine years is a long time in climate denial McKitrick appears to have moved from not accepting the science. To okay it's happening but it's not going to be all bad...

www.desmogblog.com/ross-mckitrick (https://www.desmogblog.com/ross-mckitrick)


McKitrick appeared on the Heartland Daily Podcast hosted by Anthony Watts. [56]

...
While McKitrick conceded fossil fuel consumption increases CO2 in the atmosphere and concurrently raises overall temperatures, he concludes this is a good thing and we will adapt: [56]


“We do put a lot of CO2 into the air. Using fossil fuels has led to a large amount of CO2 going into the atmosphere over a fairly short period of time. And I think in a sense we’ve dodged a bullet, because it turns out, from the evidence that I’ve seen and I think the evidence out there, that the effect of this extra CO2 is very much on the low end of the scale from what it could have been. […] [56]

“Even if the upper end of the global warming projections turned out to be valid, we still might, on economic grounds, just say it’s still too good a deal to pass up. [56]

“We’re going to live with the consequences and we’re going to keep using fossil fuels. But it’s even better than that. I think the best evidence says, no, we’ll probably get a bit of warming from CO2 but it’s going to be on the low end and it’s a mix of good and bad changes to the climate, and it’s also just stuff that we can adapt to over time.” [56]


What a fine day to have this debate when all the mainland Australian States and NT hit 40+ degrees celsius as some wag says below ACT? Yes, we should act. @p_hannam (https://twitter.com/p_hannam/status/1196978242202136576)

The McKitrick review of the Climategate Inquiries is about the Inquiries. If the Inquiries into Climategate were as he describes them, then the conclusion must be that the Inquiries were mostly shoddy affairs. Accusing the reviewer of being a denialist or a convert or whatever is just plain silly. The only consideration has to be whether what he says is correct - because what he says is quite damning. For example, the Oxburgh Review held no public meetings; no notes of closed meetings with CRU staff were taken; no meetings with CRU critics ever took place; it did not issue a call for evidence; it had no published terms of reference; the complete report ran to 5 pages. Indeed, so superficial a whitewash job was it that Lord Oxburgh was called before the UK House of Commons Select Committee to explain why it hadn't tried to do what the MPs wanted it to do - and none of that had anything at all to do with whether Roderick McKitrick was, is or ever will be a climate denialist, an evangelical christian or a devotee of the zen buddhist firewalkers of Hindustan.

Blunderbuss
20-11-2019, 04:07 PM
theobserver/2019/nov/09/climategate-10-years-on-what-lessons-have-we-learned (https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2019/nov/09/climategate-10-years-on-what-lessons-have-we-learned)


Lord Oxburgh explained how he took on the task:


I was visited in Cambridge by the deputy vice-chancellor and another senior member of the University, who wanted to persuade me to take this on. This had to be done rapidly. This was their concern. They really wanted something within a month, and there is no way that our panel could [...] validate the science. In fact, if you wanted the science validated you'd actually appoint a different panel. You probably wouldn't appoint me as chairman, and you would actually need experts from the field, because it is a very different activity to see whether things are wrong from saying, "Yes, they're right," or "They have been done properly" or "improperly". It is very different. It really is quite different. So I was quite clear. What we took on was really to look at the integrity of the researchers, and we couldn't really have done anything different from that.[34]

Patrick Byrom
20-11-2019, 05:53 PM
"Mugged by reality" is an apt description of UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon's 2007 statement that sea levels might rise six metres by 2017 if we didn't take the Kool-Aid. It is also an apt description of what happened at the Copenhagen conference following the Climategate emails release just before it. It's not an apt description of Ross McKitrick's detailed and thoughtful review of the Climategate Inquiries. An apt description of your response to his review would include phrases like 'characteristic pithy rhetorical assertion that confuses a review of the Climategate Inquiries with a review of the climate science.'One example of the reality mugging is in McKitrick's opening sentence: "News broke on or around 19 November 2009 that a large archive of emails and files from the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) in the UK had been released on the internet." The idea that the files were released by a whistleblower was unlikely even then, and as nobody has stepped forward to claim responsibility since, it's even more unlikely now. But McKitrick never acknowledges that the files were almost certainly stolen, probably by Russian hackers - an event that is a lot more plausible now.

The more important reality mugging is that the CRU scientists have been proven absolutely correct about man-made global heating. McKitrick has not.

And what did Ban Ki-Moon specifically say about sea level rise - I can't find any reference to your claimed statement, and you haven't provided one?

Patrick Byrom
20-11-2019, 06:03 PM
The McKitrick review of the Climategate Inquiries is about the Inquiries. ... Not according to McKitrick's review:

Two further questions follow from these, pointing to issues larger than Climategate itself, which many people have asked in the wake of the inquiries.
6. Is the IPCC a reliable source of information on climate change?
7. Is the science concerning the current concerns about climate change sound?
I will return to these questions in the concluding section to show that the inquiries support a negative answer to the former and are uninformative on the latter.As I said, his report has been mugged by the reality of global heating.

Capablanca-Fan
21-11-2019, 03:13 AM
Solar Panels Produce Tons of Toxic Waste—Literally (https://fee.org/articles/solar-panels-produce-tons-of-toxic-waste-literally/)
A closer look at solar panels opens a wide array of questions that need answers.
Bill Wirtz, FEE, 18 Nov 2019

What's Inside?
Beyond the clear misallocation of resources and energy market price distortions, there is a further environmental problem associated with solar panels.

Beyond the inefficient use of these resources to begin with (in the process of making crystalline silicon from silicon, as much as 80 percent of the raw silicon is lost (https://stanfordmag.org/contents/the-possibility-of-a-solar-powered-nation-nitty-gritty)), there are numerous human health concerns directly related to the manufacture and disposal of solar panels.

According to cancer biologist David H. Nguyen (https://sciencing.com/toxic-chemicals-solar-panels-18393.html), PhD, toxic chemicals in solar panels include cadmium telluride, copper indium selenide, cadmium gallium (di)selenide, copper indium gallium (di)selenide, hexafluoroethane, lead, and polyvinyl fluoride. Silicon tetrachloride, a byproduct of producing crystalline silicon, is also highly toxic.

The pro-solar website EnergySage writes (https://news.energysage.com/solar-panels-toxic-environment/):


There are some chemicals used in the manufacturing process to prepare silicon and make the wafers for monocrystalline and polycrystalline panels. One of the most toxic chemicals created as a byproduct of this process is silicon tetrachloride. This chemical, if not handled and disposed of properly, can lead to burns on your skin, harmful air pollutants that increase lung disease, and if exposed to water can release hydrochloric acid, which is a corrosive substance bad for human and environmental health.

For any user of solar panels, this is not an immediate risk as it only affects manufacturers and recyclers. More disconcerting, however, is the environmental impact of these chemicals. Based on installed capacity and power-related weight, we can estimate that by 2016, photovoltaics had spread about 11,000 tons of lead and about 800 tons of cadmium. A hazard summary of cadmium compounds produced by the EPA points out that exposure to cadmium can lead to serious lung irritation and long-lasting impairment of pulmonary functions. Exposure to lead hardly needs further explanation.

Stanford Magazine also points out (https://stanfordmag.org/contents/the-possibility-of-a-solar-powered-nation-nitty-gritty)that solar energy has a higher carbon footprint than wind and nuclear energy. Ray Weiss, a professor of Geochemistry at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography, explains (https://www.chemservice.com/news/2015/02/learn-which-chemicals-make-solar-power-possible/) that a number of solar panels release nitrogen trifluoride (NF₃), a chemical compound 17,000 times worse for the atmosphere than carbon dioxide. As recently as 2015, he explained that many manufacturers were still struggling to figure out how to contain its release into the atmosphere

MichaelBaron
21-11-2019, 06:59 PM
Solar Panels Produce Tons of Toxic Waste—Literally (https://fee.org/articles/solar-panels-produce-tons-of-toxic-waste-literally/)
A closer look at solar panels opens a wide array of questions that need answers.
Bill Wirtz, FEE, 18 Nov 2019

What's Inside?
Beyond the clear misallocation of resources and energy market price distortions, there is a further environmental problem associated with solar panels.

Beyond the inefficient use of these resources to begin with (in the process of making crystalline silicon from silicon, as much as 80 percent of the raw silicon is lost (https://stanfordmag.org/contents/the-possibility-of-a-solar-powered-nation-nitty-gritty)), there are numerous human health concerns directly related to the manufacture and disposal of solar panels.

According to cancer biologist David H. Nguyen (https://sciencing.com/toxic-chemicals-solar-panels-18393.html), PhD, toxic chemicals in solar panels include cadmium telluride, copper indium selenide, cadmium gallium (di)selenide, copper indium gallium (di)selenide, hexafluoroethane, lead, and polyvinyl fluoride. Silicon tetrachloride, a byproduct of producing crystalline silicon, is also highly toxic.

The pro-solar website EnergySage writes (https://news.energysage.com/solar-panels-toxic-environment/):


There are some chemicals used in the manufacturing process to prepare silicon and make the wafers for monocrystalline and polycrystalline panels. One of the most toxic chemicals created as a byproduct of this process is silicon tetrachloride. This chemical, if not handled and disposed of properly, can lead to burns on your skin, harmful air pollutants that increase lung disease, and if exposed to water can release hydrochloric acid, which is a corrosive substance bad for human and environmental health.

For any user of solar panels, this is not an immediate risk as it only affects manufacturers and recyclers. More disconcerting, however, is the environmental impact of these chemicals. Based on installed capacity and power-related weight, we can estimate that by 2016, photovoltaics had spread about 11,000 tons of lead and about 800 tons of cadmium. A hazard summary of cadmium compounds produced by the EPA points out that exposure to cadmium can lead to serious lung irritation and long-lasting impairment of pulmonary functions. Exposure to lead hardly needs further explanation.

Stanford Magazine also points out (https://stanfordmag.org/contents/the-possibility-of-a-solar-powered-nation-nitty-gritty)that solar energy has a higher carbon footprint than wind and nuclear energy. Ray Weiss, a professor of Geochemistry at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography, explains (https://www.chemservice.com/news/2015/02/learn-which-chemicals-make-solar-power-possible/) that a number of solar panels release nitrogen trifluoride (NF₃), a chemical compound 17,000 times worse for the atmosphere than carbon dioxide. As recently as 2015, he explained that many manufacturers were still struggling to figure out how to contain its release into the atmosphere


Toxic chemicals that increase risk of cancers....not sure this is a way to go...

Patrick Byrom
21-11-2019, 11:20 PM
Toxic chemicals that increase risk of cancers....not sure this is a way to go...I think dust storms caused by climate change are a more immediate concern in Victoria. This is Mildura today:

3949

antichrist
21-11-2019, 11:22 PM
some of those fire effected places actually should be evacuated by everyone not just the elderly and young. I have a mate there who smokes like a chimney he is probably saving on tobacco

Capablanca-Fan
22-11-2019, 02:20 AM
Climate Myths (https://townhall.com/columnists/johnstossel/2019/11/20/climate-myths-n2556733)
John Stossel, 20 Nov 2019

At a Heartland Institute event (https://youtu.be/b8JZo6PzpCU) I moderated, climatologist Pat Michaels put the 12-year claim in perspective by saying, "It's warmed up around 1 degree Celsius since 1900, and life expectancy doubled in the industrialized democracies! Yet that temperature ticks up another half a degree and the entire system crashes? That's the most absurd belief!"

Astrophysicist Willie Soon added, "It's all about hand-waving, emotion, sending out kids in protest. It has nothing to do with the science."

Is that true? I wish the alarmists would show up and debate.

Alarmists say, "Miami will soon be underwater!"

Few serious people deny that the Earth has warmed and that sea levels are rising. But Michaels points out that even if the warming increases, humans can adjust.

For example, much of Holland is below sea level. "They said," Michaels recounts, "we're going to adapt to the fact that we're a low-lying country; we're going to build these dikes. Are you telling me that people in Miami are so dumb that they're just going to sit there and drown?"

But aren't sudden climate changes happening now? Aren't hurricanes suddenly far more violent?

"No they aren't!" responded Michaels. "You can take a look at all the hurricanes around the planet. We can see them since 1970, because we've got global satellite coverage. We can measure their power... There is no significant increase whatsoever -- no relationship between hurricane activity and the surface temperature of the planet!"

He's right. That's what government data shows. (https://www.drroyspencer.com/2018/09/the-30-costliest-u-s-hurricanes-have-not-increased-in-intensity-over-time/)

Nevertheless, activists and politicians demand the United States move toward zero carbon emissions. That would "put you back in the Stone Age," says Michaels.

Another myth is that carbon dioxide, the prime creator of greenhouse gases, threatens the food supply.

But carbon dioxide helps plants grow. "There are places on Earth where it is greening up like crazy," says Michaels.

Capablanca-Fan
22-11-2019, 02:22 AM
some of those fire effected places actually should be evacuated by everyone not just the elderly and young. I have a mate there who smokes like a chimney he is probably saving on tobacco

Not as much of a nicotine fix with forest fires.

Capablanca-Fan
22-11-2019, 02:24 AM
Scientists: Dishonest or Afraid? (https://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2019/11/20/scientists-dishonest-or-afraid-n2556667)
Walter E. Williams, 20 Nov 2019

The absolute worst case of professional incompetence and dishonesty is in the area of climate science. Tony Heller has exposed some of the egregious dishonesty of mainstream environmentalists in a video he's titled "My Gift To Climate Alarmists." Environmentalists and their political allies attribute the recent increase in deadly forest fires to global warming. However, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Forest Service, forest fires reached their peak in the 1930s and have declined by 80% since then. Environmentalists hide the earlier data and make their case for the effects of global warming by showing the public and policymakers data from 1980 that shows an increase in forest fires.

Climate scientists claim that rising sea levels are caused by man-made global warming. Historical data from the tide gauge in Lower Manhattan shows that sea levels have been rising from about the time when Abraham Lincoln was president to now. Heller says that sea levels have been rising for about 20,000 years. He points out that anthropologists believe that when the sea level was very low people were able to walk from Siberia to North America.

Once in a while environmentalists reveal their true agenda. Ottmar Edenhofer, lead author of the IPCC's fourth summary report released in 2007, speaking in 2010 advised: "One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. Instead, climate change policy is about how we redistribute de facto the world's wealth." U.N. climate chief Christiana Figueres said that the true aim of the U.N.'s 2014 Paris climate conference was "to change the (capitalist) economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years, since the Industrial Revolution." Christine Stewart, Canada's former Minister of the Environment said: "No matter if the science is all phony, there are collateral environmental benefits. ... Climate change (provides) the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world." Tim Wirth, former U.S. Undersecretary of State for Global Affairs and the person most responsible for setting up the Kyoto Protocol said: "We've got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic policy and environmental policy."

Patrick Byrom
22-11-2019, 09:54 AM
Climate Myths (https://townhall.com/columnists/johnstossel/2019/11/20/climate-myths-n2556733)
John Stossel, 20 Nov 2019
… Nevertheless, activists and politicians demand the United States move toward zero carbon emissions. That would "put you back in the Stone Age," says Michaels.
... "Climate Myths" is a good title! It's the same nonsense that has been repeatedly refuted here, but which rejectors refuse to discuss.

Ian Murray
22-11-2019, 09:59 AM
Solar Panels Produce Tons of Toxic Waste—Literally (https://fee.org/articles/solar-panels-produce-tons-of-toxic-waste-literally/)
A closer look at solar panels opens a wide array of questions that need answers.
Bill Wirtz, FEE, 18 Nov 2019

What's Inside?
Beyond the clear misallocation of resources and energy market price distortions,

Right from the jump we know how balanced his view are


there is a further environmental problem associated with solar panels.

Beyond the inefficient use of these resources to begin with (in the process of making crystalline silicon from silicon, as much as 80 percent of the raw silicon is lost (https://stanfordmag.org/contents/the-possibility-of-a-solar-powered-nation-nitty-gritty)), there are numerous human health concerns directly related to the manufacture and disposal of solar panels.

The raw silicon we're talking about is sand


According to cancer biologist David H. Nguyen PhD, toxic chemicals in solar panels include cadmium telluride, copper indium selenide, cadmium gallium (di)selenide, copper indium gallium (di)selenide, hexafluoroethane, lead, and polyvinyl fluoride. Silicon tetrachloride, a byproduct of producing crystalline silicon, is also highly toxic.

Health and Safety Concerns of Photovoltaic Solar Panels (https://www.ssti.us/wp/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Health_and_Safety_Concerns_of_Photovoltaic_Solar_P anels_2010_OR.pdf) itemises the health risks in each stage of the whole-of-life cycle. The introduction opens with:

The generation of electricity from photovoltaic (PV) solar panels is safe and effective. Because PV
systems do not burn fossil fuels they do not produce the toxic air or greenhouse gas emissions
associated with conventional fossil fuel fired generation technologies. According to the U.S. Department
of Energy, few power-generating technologies have as little environmental impact as photovoltaic solar
panels.
However, as with all energy sources, there are potential environmental, health and safety hazards
associated with the full product life cycle of photovoltaics. Recent news accounts have raised public
interest and concerns about those potential hazards. A substantial body of research has investigated the
life cycle impacts of photovoltaics including raw material production, manufacture, use and disposal.
While some potentially hazardous materials are utilized in the life cycle of photovoltaic systems, none
present a risk different or greater than the risks found routinely in modern society.]


Stanford Magazine also points out (https://stanfordmag.org/contents/the-possibility-of-a-solar-powered-nation-nitty-gritty)


Overall environmental effects

Burton Richter, a Nobel laureate in physics and Stanford professor emeritus, gave a presentation at Stanford in which he explained the health impacts of the different types of energy and electricity generation. The studies used in his presentation show that virtually all of the health impacts—from coughs in asthmatics to heart diseases—of solar power are lower than those of coal, lignite, oil and gas. Other studies have also supported these observations. These impacts can be lowered even further, through regulatory oversight of solar panel manufacture and disposal.

It is certainly true that, as the volume of PV systems being decommissioned grows in the decades ahead, PV system disposal will be a serious issue - and a profitable business opportunity. Already scalable recycling plants are in operation - see
The Opportunities of Solar Panel Recycling (https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2017/10/the-opportunities-of-solar-panel-recycling)
Australia’s first solar-panel recycler plans to help green the full life cycle of components (https://www.pv-magazine-australia.com/2019/01/18/australias-first-solar-panel-recycler-plans-to-help-green-the-full-life-cycle-of-components/)
Why You Should Recycle Your Old Solar Panels (https://www.ecoactiv.com.au/solar-panel-recycling/)
Shining a light on solar panel recycling
(https://www.recyclingtoday.com/article/end-of-life-solar-panel-recycling/)

Patrick Byrom
22-11-2019, 10:04 AM
Scientists: Dishonest or Afraid? (https://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2019/11/20/scientists-dishonest-or-afraid-n2556667) Walter E. Williams, 20 Nov 2019
... Environmentalists and their political allies attribute the recent increase in deadly forest fires to global warming. However, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Forest Service, forest fires reached their peak in the 1930s and have declined by 80% since then. Environmentalists hide the earlier data and make their case for the effects of global warming by showing the public and policymakers data from 1980 that shows an increase in forest fires. ... Climate scientists claim that rising sea levels are caused by man-made global warming. Historical data from the tide gauge in Lower Manhattan shows that sea levels have been rising from about the time when Abraham Lincoln was president to now. Heller says that sea levels have been rising for about 20,000 years. He points out that anthropologists believe that when the sea level was very low people were able to walk from Siberia to North America.
…US wildfire data is not reliable before 1950. And using one tidal gauge to measure global sea level rise is obvious nonsense!

antichrist
22-11-2019, 11:29 AM
US wildfire data is not reliable before 1950. And using one tidal gauge to measure global sea level rise is obvious nonsense!

Like when the tide is going out at the beach sometimes another big whopper wave comes in and floods everything, it does not mean that the tide is no longer going out unless it was when God made the earth stand still for Joshua's longest day so there was a jerk with the brakes.

Ian Murray
22-11-2019, 12:58 PM
Scientists: Dishonest or Afraid? (https://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2019/11/20/scientists-dishonest-or-afraid-n2556667)
Walter E. Williams, 20 Nov 2019

...Climate scientists claim that rising sea levels are caused by man-made global warming. Historical data from the tide gauge in Lower Manhattan shows that sea levels have been rising from about the time when Abraham Lincoln was president to now.

According to NASA:

Sea Level Rise is Accelerating (https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/91746/sea-level-rise-is-accelerating)

Global sea level rise has been accelerating in recent decades, according to a new study based on 25 years of NASA and European satellite data. This acceleration has been driven mainly by increased ice melting in Greenland and Antarctica, and it has the potential to double the total sea level rise projected by 2100, according to lead author Steve Nerem, a scientist at the Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences (CIRES) and the University of Colorado.

If things continue to change at the observed pace, sea level will rise 65 centimeters (26 inches) by 2100, enough to cause significant problems for coastal cities. ...

The TOPEX/Poseidon/Jason altimetry missions have been essentially providing the equivalent of a global network of nearly half a million accurate tide gauges, providing sea surface height information every 10 days for over 25 years ...


Heller says that sea levels have been rising for about 20,000 years. He points out that anthropologists believe that when the sea level was very low people were able to walk from Siberia to North America....

That is, since the last Ice Age. No secret - the missing water was in ice sheets

Ian Murray
22-11-2019, 01:39 PM
As for forest fires


Scientists: Dishonest or Afraid? (https://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2019/11/20/scientists-dishonest-or-afraid-n2556667)
Walter E. Williams, 20 Nov 2019

'''Environmentalists and their political allies attribute the recent increase in deadly forest fires to global warming. However, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Forest Service, forest fires reached their peak in the 1930s and have declined by 80% since then. ...

Heller cites this unsourced chart, at 2:27, showing millions of acres burned since 1983:


https://youtu.be/rvrsA0XlYGg?t=152

He then compares it with this chart:

3950

At first glance an extra 40 million acres burned in the early 1930s - a whopping anomaly. The difference is in the detail - the first chart covers wildfires, the second all fires. Big difference - see explainer (https://andthentheresphysics.wordpress.com/2015/10/30/the-mysterious-wildfire-chart/). Heller doesn't stand up to basic fact-checking. Nor does Williams.

Ian Murray
24-11-2019, 06:58 AM
The day that plunged Australia's climate policy into 10 years of inertia (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-24/10-years-of-climate-change-inertiaand-the-role-of-andrew-robb/11726072)
ABC Long Read
24.11.19

Ten years ago today, Andrew Robb arrived at Parliament House intent upon an act of treachery.

No-one was expecting him. Robb was formally on leave from the Parliament undergoing treatment for his severe depression.

But the plan the Liberal MP nursed to himself that morning would not only bring about the political demise of his leader, Malcolm Turnbull, but blow apart Australia's two great parties irrevocably just as they teetered toward consensus on climate change, the most divisive issue of the Australian political century.

They have never again been so close.

A decade later, according to the ABC's Australia Talks National Survey, climate change is a matter of urgent community concern. Eighty-four per cent of respondents said that climate change was real and that action was warranted. When offered a range of 19 issues and asked which were of gravest personal concern, climate change ranked at number one.

As bushfires ravage the landscape and drought once again strangles vast tracts of the continent, the inability of the Australian Parliament to reach agreement on how to answer the threat of climate change — or even discuss it rationally — may well be one of the drivers of another shrieking headline from the Australia Talks research: 84 per cent of respondents also feel that Australian politicians are out of touch with the views of the people they represent.

This is the story — told on its 10th birthday — of a political event that changed the course of a nation's history. ...

antichrist
24-11-2019, 07:43 AM
But what did Rudd do when his CC legalisation was rejected? Over chrissie he wrote a children's book instead of doing a Whitlam DD Double Dissolution. He was not radical nor principled enough. No fire and temper in his belly. He still went to church that says enough in itself.

Ian Murray
24-11-2019, 07:54 AM
But what did Rudd do when his CC legalisation was rejected? Over chrissie he wrote a children's book instead of doing a Whitlam DD Double Dissolution. He was not radical nor principled enough. No fire and temper in his belly. He still went to church that says enough in itself.

The legislation was defeated in the House not the Senate, so no double dissolution trigger

Capablanca-Fan
24-11-2019, 09:32 AM
The day that plunged Australia's climate policy into 10 years of inertia (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-24/10-years-of-climate-change-inertiaand-the-role-of-andrew-robb/11726072)
ABC Long Read
24.11.19

Ten years ago today, Andrew Robb arrived at Parliament House intent upon an act of treachery.

No-one was expecting him. Robb was formally on leave from the Parliament undergoing treatment for his severe depression.

But the plan the Liberal MP nursed to himself that morning would not only bring about the political demise of his leader, Malcolm Turnbull, but blow apart Australia's two great parties irrevocably just as they teetered toward consensus on climate change, the most divisive issue of the Australian political century..
Robb is a great Australian. The article even admits the point: Turnbull was really Labor not Liberal, so Robb got rid of the traitor for a while and replaced him with a real Liberal.

Kevin Bonham
24-11-2019, 09:41 AM
The legislation was defeated in the House not the Senate, so no double dissolution trigger

It was defeated in the Senate; Rudd had a majority in the House at the time. The CPRS bills were negatived by the Senate at second reading on 13 Aug 2009 and at third reading on 2 Dec 2009 creating a DD trigger had Rudd wished to use it anytime in the next several months.

Ian Murray
24-11-2019, 10:27 AM
It was defeated in the Senate; Rudd had a majority in the House at the time. The CPRS bills were negatived by the Senate at second reading on 13 Aug 2009 and at third reading on 2 Dec 2009 creating a DD trigger had Rudd wished to use it anytime in the next several months.

Sorry a/c - you were right

antichrist
25-11-2019, 02:13 AM
Rudd maybe didn't DD due to his diplomatic background rather than a hard nosed political background.

Patrick Byrom
25-11-2019, 11:08 PM
Some good news about coal use (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/nov/25/global-use-of-coal-fired-electricity-set-for-biggest-fall-this-year):

The world’s use of coal-fired electricity is on track for its biggest annual fall on record this year after more than four decades of near-uninterrupted growth that has stoked the global climate crisis. Data shows that coal-fired electricity is expected to fall by 3% in 2019, or more than the combined coal generation in Germany, Spain and the UK last year and could help stall the world’s rising carbon emissions this year. The steepest global slump on record is likely to emerge in 2019 as India’s reliance on coal power falls for the first time in at least three decades this year, and China’s coal power demand plateaus.

idledim
26-11-2019, 08:27 AM
Some good news about coal use (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/nov/25/global-use-of-coal-fired-electricity-set-for-biggest-fall-this-year):

The world’s use of coal-fired electricity is on track for its biggest annual fall on record this year after more than four decades of near-uninterrupted growth that has stoked the global climate crisis. Data shows that coal-fired electricity is expected to fall by 3% in 2019, or more than the combined coal generation in Germany, Spain and the UK last year and could help stall the world’s rising carbon emissions this year. The steepest global slump on record is likely to emerge in 2019 as India’s reliance on coal power falls for the first time in at least three decades this year, and China’s coal power demand plateaus.

According to the latest IEA Reports, coal use rose last year (for the 2nd. year running) - with demand particularly strong among developing Asian nations. There are insurance risks for the Australian economy on the back of the anti fossil fuel backlash; notwithstanding these, the IEA predicts growth of 18% in Australian coal exports in the next 2 decades (to 418 million tonnes) - driven by demand from India (which is predicted to surpass China as the world's largest coal importer.)

Fossil fuels currently account for 81% of global energy demand - compared with 80% at the turn of the century.

Of course, it's not surprising that the left-wing propaganda newspaper The Guardian prefers to publish the research of the climate change propaganda think tank known as Sandbag. Nor is it surprising that the left-wing propaganda newspaper The Guardian prefers to publish the research of the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air. Their mission statement 'bells the cat:'
The Institute’s mission is to accelerate the transition to a diverse, sustainable and profitable energy economy.

Blunderbuss
26-11-2019, 09:20 AM
... the left-wing propaganda newspaper The Guardian prefers to publish the research of the climate change propaganda ...

The research was not only reported in The Guardian but also by the BBC Report (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-50520962)

Don’t tell me the BBC is a left-wing propaganda machine because that can just be filed under “alterative facts”.

The bottom line is everyone knows coal is yesterdays fuel and we must (and are, but too slowly (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-50504131)) transition to sustainable energy sources.

Anyway never fear because Rupert says there are no Climate Deniers at News Corp: https://inews.co.uk/news/media/rupert-murdoch-climate-change-deniers-news-corp-agm-1319048 (https://inews.co.uk/news/media/rupert-murdoch-climate-change-deniers-news-corp-agm-1319048)

Then the very next day the OZ prints this steaming pile of horsesh*t: https://www.crikey.com.au/2019/11/22/rupert-denies-deniers-but-no-one-told-the-oz/ (https://www.crikey.com.au/2019/11/22/rupert-denies-deniers-but-no-one-told-the-oz/)

Ian Murray
26-11-2019, 10:09 AM
Is The IEA Biased Towards Fossil Fuels? (https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Is-The-IEA-Biased-Towards-Fossil-Fuels.html)
oilprice.com
8.4.18

The International Energy Agency has long received criticism for its energy forecasts, which, as is typical with any long-term projections, often miss the mark. But a new report accuses the Paris-based energy agency of helping to lock in fossil fuel energy investments at a time when the IEA itself should be helping governments transition to clean energy....

In other words, while the IEA repeatedly states that governments need to transition to cleaner forms of energy, it is also pushing recommendations for oil and gas investments that would blow up any chance of achieving those goals...

It is notable, for instance, that the IEA has repeatedly underestimated the growth of renewable energy, which is important since the agency’s forecasts have been used to justify multi-decade investments in new coal production in Australia, for example. ...

idledim
26-11-2019, 10:52 AM
The research was not only reported in The Guardian but also by the BBC Report (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-50520962)

Don’t tell me the BBC is a left-wing propaganda machine because that can just be filed under “alterative facts”.

The bottom line is everyone knows coal is yesterdays fuel and we must (and are, but too slowly (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-50504131)) transition to sustainable energy sources.

Anyway never fear because Rupert says there are no Climate Deniers at News Corp: https://inews.co.uk/news/media/rupert-murdoch-climate-change-deniers-news-corp-agm-1319048 (https://inews.co.uk/news/media/rupert-murdoch-climate-change-deniers-news-corp-agm-1319048)

Then the very next day the OZ prints this steaming pile of horsesh*t: https://www.crikey.com.au/2019/11/22/rupert-denies-deniers-but-no-one-told-the-oz/ (https://www.crikey.com.au/2019/11/22/rupert-denies-deniers-but-no-one-told-the-oz/)

No need to add to what you call your 'alterative facts' file since I have no desire to comment on the political proclivities of the BBC. Not that it should matter whether cherry picked facts and misleading data are reported by the BBC, Sandbag or The Womens Weekly. What matters is whether the reports are accurate or not. They certainly paint a different picture from the picture painted by the International Energy Agency. They also paint a different picture from that painted by the BBC in May, which noted that there was a 5% increase in carbon dioxide emissions in India from 2017 to 2018, and that 90% of Indian energy demand was met by fossil fuels.

As to Emeritus Professor Ian Plimer: he is not employed by News.Corp. As a subscriber to The Australian I can report that it represents a range of views. Even if he was employed by News Corp, I doubt that Mr. Murdoch could direct Professor Plimer to do anything he didn't want to do!

And finally, with respect to the important matter of horsesh*t: have you considered a Bex and a good lie down? Or, failing that, perhaps a trip to nice Mr. Murray's link to an article from The Conversation (earlier in this thread) about the importance of politeness and respect when discussing matters about which people of integrity can and do have differing views. Just a thought!

Blunderbuss
26-11-2019, 11:16 AM
No need to add to what you call your 'alterative facts' file since I have no desire to comment on the political proclivities of the BBC. Not that it should matter whether cherry picked facts and misleading data are reported by the BBC, Sandbag or The Womens Weekly. What matters is whether the reports are accurate or not. They certainly paint a different picture from the picture painted by the International Energy Agency. They also paint a different picture from that painted by the BBC in May, which noted that there was a 5% increase in carbon dioxide emissions in India from 2017 to 2018, and that 90% of Indian energy demand was met by fossil fuels.

As to Emeritus Professor Ian Plimer: he is not employed by News.Corp. As a subscriber to The Australian I can report that it represents a range of views. Even if he was employed by News Corp, I doubt that Mr. Murdoch could direct Professor Plimer to do anything he didn't want to do!

And finally, with respect to the important matter of horsesh*t: have you considered a Bex and a good lie down? Or, failing that, perhaps a trip to nice Mr. Murray's link to an article from The Conversation (earlier in this thread) about the importance of politeness and respect when discussing matters about which people of integrity can and do have differing views. Just a thought!

Can you give any examples of "cherry picked facts" or "misleading data" from this report?


I have plenty of examples for you from Plimer's efforts.

idledim
26-11-2019, 12:15 PM
Can you give any examples of "cherry picked facts" or "misleading data" from this report?


I have plenty of examples for you from Plimer's efforts.

I have already given you examples of 'cherry-picked facts' and 'misleading data.' The dominant messages (of the report) are:

Global use of coal-fired electricity set for biggest fall this year (the Headline)

Data shows that coal-fired electricity is expected to fall by 3% in 2019 ... and could help stall the world’s rising carbon emissions this year. (Para.2)

Both developing nations (China and India) are using less coal-fired electricity due to slowing economic growth in Asia as well as the rise of cleaner energy alternatives. (Para.4).

These messages are misleading because, as already indicated:

Fossil fuels account for about 81% of global energy demand now, compared with 80% at the turn of the century.

Coal use rose last year for the second year running, with demand remaining strong among developing Asian nations.

There was a 5% increase in carbon dioxide emissions in India from 2017 to 2018.

90% of Indian energy demand is met by fossil fuels.

There are many other reasons to distrust The Guardian report, including but not limited to the fact that it is a report published by the left-wing propaganda newspaper The Guardian. These include:

India's electricity demand is projected to triple in 2018-40.

India's steel & cement production is set to triple in the next 10 years.

Since the middle of this decade, India has said it will double coal production to one billion tonnes by 2020. This is on top of what India imports from countries like Australia and Indonesia.

China, India and the U.S. are responsible for about 50% of global emissions. China is apparently "building new coal plants five times faster than the rest of the world is reducing their coal-fired power capacity."

In other words, any report that claims global emissions have stalled, or will soon stall, is just putting cherry-picked, misleading, cheerleading ahead of the coal hard facts.

Patrick Byrom
26-11-2019, 12:22 PM
According to the latest IEA Reports, coal use rose last year (for the 2nd. year running) - with demand particularly strong among developing Asian nations. ... Fossil fuels currently account for 81% of global energy demand - compared with 80% at the turn of the century. ... [/I]How does a rise in coal use in 2018 contradict a fall in 2019? As the article I quoted said: "The world’s use of coal-fired electricity is on track for its biggest annual fall on record this year after more than four decades of near-uninterrupted growth that has stoked the global climate crisis." And what is the source for your claim about global fossil fuel use?

Patrick Byrom
26-11-2019, 12:41 PM
Speaking of cherry-picking (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/26/australias-science-academy-attacks-cherrypicking-of-great-barrier-reef-research):


In his submission, Shine wrote: “The Australian Academy of Science is greatly concerned about a recent tendency to ‘cherrypick’, dismiss, misrepresent, or obscure scientific evidence or smear individual scientists.” Prof John Shine: ‘Cherrypicking evidence to support a decision or position is dangerous.’ Later in the submission, he added: “A commonly used tactic in opposing or advocating for policy positions is to ‘cherrypick’ scientific findings rather than consulting and analysing the body of literature systematically. “Cherrypicking evidence to support a decision or position is dangerous and leads to poor judgement and outcomes.”

The academy said it backed the methods and findings of a 2017 Scientific Consensus Statement on the impacts of poor water quality of the reef.

Blunderbuss
26-11-2019, 01:00 PM
...
India's steel & cement production is set to triple in the next 10 years.
...
In other words, any report that claims global emissions have stalled, or will soon stall, is just putting cherry-picked, misleading, cheerleading ahead of the coal hard facts.

The Guardian and BBC fairly reported this https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-global-coal-power-set-for-record-fall-in-2019 (https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-global-coal-power-set-for-record-fall-in-2019) neither the BBC nor The Guardian made any claims about global emissions having stalled or soon stalling in fact both linked (as I did myself) to reports of the opposite! Just to remind you that you and I are arguing about a report of coal used to generate electricity, therefore steel manufacturing is not directly relevant. It could also I guess just be a blip as the graph below shows we are only talking about 2019 there have been a couple of other years (2009 & 2015) that fell only to bounce back again. However, those of us that know our future depends on leaving the coal in the ground hope otherwise.

3959

Finally quoting from carbonbrief.org on the outlook for India: -


Electricity demand growth in India has continued to slow dramatically across the first ten months of 2019. In October, electricity demand actually fell by 13.2% against the same month last year.

Collectively, power from all non-coal sources grew by about 12% in January-September, leading to a downturn in coal-fired generation that is accelerating sharply. Coal-fired generation in October fell by 19% year-on-year to the lowest level since 2014.

Heavy monsoon rains have affected industrial power demand, but as demand has continued to plummet in November, a broad slowdown in industrial output is becoming increasingly apparent. This suggests that the country’s CO2 emissions growth is slowing further from the already low annual rate of 2%, which we estimated from data for the first half of 2019.

The average thermal power plant utilisation rate in India is below 58%, meaning substantial idle coal capacity.

idledim
26-11-2019, 02:06 PM
How does a rise in coal use in 2018 contradict a fall in 2019? As the article I quoted said: "The world’s use of coal-fired electricity is on track for its biggest annual fall on record this year after more than four decades of near-uninterrupted growth that has stoked the global climate crisis." And what is the source for your claim about global fossil fuel use?
Asian demand to drive coal and gas output
(https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/asian-demand-to-drive-coal-and-gas-output/news-story/a054499d8da5ee1f22307f1e61c15e29)
While renewables have continued their rapid growth, fossil fuels accounted for 81 per cent of global energy demand last year compared with an 80 per cent share at the turn of the century amid a warning that current trajectory will result in countries falling short of Paris climate change targets.

For a more detailed analysis, see:

Global Energy & CO2 Status Report
(https://www.iea.org/geco/data/)

Ian Murray
26-11-2019, 06:26 PM
Can we have net zero emissions and still fly? (https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/nov/24/can-we-fly-and-have-net-zero-emissions-air-industry-e-fan-x-rolls-royce-engines-kerosine-carbon-2050?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlBVVMt MTkxMTI2&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayAUS&CMP=GTAU_email')
The Guardian
24.11.19

.. The UK aviation industry pumped 37m tonnes of carbon dioxide (CO2) into the atmosphere last year alone. That’s about 4% of the 918m tonnes that the global aviation industry emitted in 2018. And it’s an upward trend. The aviation industry is currently growing at between 4% and 5% a year, at which rate passenger numbers will double every 15-20 years. ...

Currently, aviation is responsible for about 2.5% of the world’s CO2 emissions. That may seem a small percentage, but this share of the total could increase significantly with the expected growth of air travel and the drive to greener operations in other industries. Accordingly the industry is looking to technology and engineering to help make aircraft more environmentally friendly. At the forefront of this is the electric engine.Currently, aviation is responsible for about 2.5% of the world’s CO2 emissions. That may seem a small percentage, but this share of the total could increase significantly with the expected growth of air travel and the drive to greener operations in other industries. Accordingly the industry is looking to technology and engineering to help make aircraft more environmentally friendly. At the forefront of this is the electric engine....

To Rob Watson, director of Rolls-Royce Electrical, the move to electric engines is a revolution that will usher in not just a more sustainable industry but a whole new era of flight.

“A third era in aerospace is emerging around us now, and it is enabled by electrification,” he says. “From our perspective, it’s a really exciting opportunity for us to help pioneer this third era.”

According to Watson, these eras of flight are driven by the available engine technology. First, it was piston engines to drive propellers, then it was jet engines, and now the electric engine promises to bring savings in both operating costs and environmental impact. ...

Ian Murray
26-11-2019, 07:52 PM
Things not looking good

In bleak report, U.N. says drastic action is only way to avoid worst effects of climate change (https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2019/11/26/bleak-report-un-says-drastic-action-is-only-way-avoid-worst-impacts-climate-change/?wpisrc=al_news__alert-world--alert-national&wpmk=1)
Washington Post
26.11.19

The world has squandered so much time mustering the action necessary to combat climate change that rapid, unprecedented cuts in greenhouse gas emissions offer the only hope of averting an ever-intensifying cascade of consequences, according to new findings from the United Nations.

Already, the past year has brought devastating hurricanes, relentless wildfires and crippling heat waves, prompting millions of protesters to take to the streets to demand more attention to a problem that seems increasingly urgent.

Amid that growing pressure to act, Tuesday’s U.N. report offers a grim assessment of how off-track the world remains. Global temperatures are on pace to rise as much as 3.9 degrees Celsius (7 degrees Fahrenheit) by the end of the century, according to the United Nations’ annual “emissions gap” report, which assesses the difference between the world’s current path and the changes needed to meet the goals of the 2015 Paris climate accord. ...

MichaelBaron
26-11-2019, 11:15 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/11/25/why-everything-they-say-about-climate-change-is-wrong/?fbclid=IwAR2SBfXGq_-uH5bDyaIYzLYRBIYvm93-yh4Hjw7GRkHiI3TIQSIEN5GlQGo#36fa673c12d6

P.S published by Forbes..
'First, no credible scientific body has ever said climate change threatens the collapse of civilization much less the extinction of the human species. ''

Patrick Byrom
27-11-2019, 06:51 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/11/25/why-everything-they-say-about-climate-change-is-wrong/?fbclid=IwAR2SBfXGq_-uH5bDyaIYzLYRBIYvm93-yh4Hjw7GRkHiI3TIQSIEN5GlQGo#36fa673c12d6
P.S published by Forbes..'First, no credible scientific body has ever said climate change threatens the collapse of civilization much less the extinction of the human species. ''

Unfortunately, that article contains several misleading statements. For example:

Nor are the fires solely due to drought, which is common in Australia, and exceptional this year. “Climate change is playing its role here,” said Richard Thornton of the Bushfire and Natural Hazards Cooperative Research Centre in Australia, “but it's not the cause of these fires."
However Thornton also said in that link (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-10/more-than-climate-change-driving-queensland-fires/11493950):

Dr Thornton expects this trend to continue. "What climate change will do is it will increase the frequency, or the return rate if you like, of really bad fire weather days," he said. "So the days like where you had Ash Wednesday or black Saturday, the return period for those sorts of days, will come back and will become shorter.

antichrist
27-11-2019, 11:43 PM
The lack of rain in this region is the most severe I can recall in over fifty years

MichaelBaron
28-11-2019, 12:29 PM
Unfortunately, that article contains several misleading statements. For example:

Nor are the fires solely due to drought, which is common in Australia, and exceptional this year. “Climate change is playing its role here,” said Richard Thornton of the Bushfire and Natural Hazards Cooperative Research Centre in Australia, “but it's not the cause of these fires."
However Thornton also said in that link (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-10/more-than-climate-change-driving-queensland-fires/11493950):

Dr Thornton expects this trend to continue. "What climate change will do is it will increase the frequency, or the return rate if you like, of really bad fire weather days," he said. "So the days like where you had Ash Wednesday or black Saturday, the return period for those sorts of days, will come back and will become shorter.

So climate change is ''sole reason for all fires'' - does it mean that before when there was no such climate change there were no fires?

Patrick Byrom
28-11-2019, 12:41 PM
So climate change is ''sole reason for all fires'' - does it mean that before when there was no such climate change there were no fires?Who are you quoting - not me, obviously?

Blunderbuss
28-11-2019, 12:48 PM
I don't think Michael is even reading the posts, he has just seen 'solely' and 'fires' put 2 and 2 together and come up with 5.

Ian Murray
28-11-2019, 03:55 PM
The Holocene, the geological epoch which gave rise to humanity, is ending as we push the planet into the Anthropocene, with temperature extremes humans have never seen before. What we do in the next 50 years will determine what happens over the next ten thousand years.

From World Economic Forum 2017, watch Johan Rockström explaining why we should be concerned about tipping points and how we can embrace the challenge of seeing opportunities in the necessary transformation towards global sustainability:


https://youtu.be/V9ETiSaxyfk

https://www.stockholmresilience.org/research/research-news/2017-03-23-curbing-emissions-with-a-new-carbon-law.html

MichaelBaron
29-11-2019, 09:14 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/climate-change-labour-london-stock-exchange-business-manifesto-mcdonnell-a9208801.html?fbclid=IwAR0hrryZyXczmTv1siKbrQOyeQK 6oMfh7DRlKSHGxTwiWUEUBvyJqQ70I6E

Unbelievable....and what about investors if a company is hypothetically delisted? what about the company? its staff? business partners? How much more idiotic than that can it get?

Patrick Byrom
29-11-2019, 09:49 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/climate-change-labour-london-stock-exchange-business-manifesto-mcdonnell-a9208801.html?fbclid=IwAR0hrryZyXczmTv1siKbrQOyeQK 6oMfh7DRlKSHGxTwiWUEUBvyJqQ70I6E
Unbelievable....and what about investors if a company is hypothetically delisted? what about the company? its staff? business partners? How much more idiotic than that can it get?Companies get delisted all the time. It just means that their shares will not be traded on that stock exchange. It's a strange penalty, but nowhere near as serious as you're suggesting.

MichaelBaron
29-11-2019, 10:02 PM
Companies get delisted all the time. It just means that their shares will not be traded on that stock exchange. It's a strange penalty, but nowhere near as serious as you're suggesting.

For large companies it is a very serious penalty obviously...not to mention that I've never heard of a company being de-listed due to such reasons.

Ian Murray
30-11-2019, 07:42 AM
New Earth Mission Will Track Rising Oceans Into 2030 (https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2934/new-earth-mission-will-track-rising-oceans-into-2030/?fbclid=IwAR3yncRjjmHpy0wt9w08d2TizQlyQRYZdxxNPTP2 _y116Ir8SMbe5zBrbDI)
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory

Earth's climate is changing, and the study of oceans is vital to understanding the effects of those changes on our future. For the first time, U.S. and European agencies are preparing to launch a 10-year satellite mission to continue to study the clearest sign of global warming — rising sea levels. The Sentinel-6/Jason-CS mission (short for Jason-Continuity of Service), will be the longest-running mission dedicated to answering the question: How much will Earth's oceans rise by 2030?

By 2030, Sentinel-6/Jason-CS will add to nearly 40 years of sea level records, providing us with the clearest, most sensitive measure of how humans are changing the planet and its climate. ...

Capablanca-Fan
30-11-2019, 11:53 AM
Watch: John Stossel Destroys Climate Change Myths in Terrific Video (https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama/2019/11/24/watch-john-stossel-destroys-climate-change-myths-in-terrific-video/)
Nick Arama, Redstate, 24 Nov 2019

Stossel noted how over the years he’d covered so many scares that had turned out not to be what people claimed, that in fact, we’re living longer than ever.

Yet the alarmists like Greta Thunberg say “entire ecosystems are collapsing” and we are on the brink of “mass extinction.” Politicians like Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) and former Vice President Joe Biden proclaim, “We have 12 years years left.”

The scientists took on that myth. “Please, let’s have a discussion!” begged astrophysicist Willie Soon.

Pat Michaels, former president of the American Association of State Climatologists, dissected the 12 year/extinction claim. “It’s warmed up around one degree Celsius since 1900, and life expectancy doubled, yet that temperature ticks up another half a degree and the entire system crashes? That’s the most absurd belief.”

And what happens when in all likelihood we’re all still here in pretty much the same condition in 12 years?

Climatology Professor David Legates predicted, “In twelve years it’ll be 12 more years.”

Another myth? Government can somehow save us.

“The Obama’s administration’s model projects that the amount of global warming that would be saved going to zero emissions tomorrow … would be 14 hundredths of a degree Celsius,” according to Michaels.

An insignificant difference for global warning. But a killer for the country. “You’ll sure have an impoverished dark country,” he said.

But, as Stossel observes, the other side doesn’t want to debate, they just want to impose their will, without question.

So why are politicians so eager to push all this on us? One word: control.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8JZo6PzpCU&feature=emb_logo

Patrick Byrom
30-11-2019, 11:58 AM
For large companies it is a very serious penalty obviously...not to mention that I've never heard of a company being de-listed due to such reasons.I doubt that any major company would fail to comply. And companies are delisted for a variety of reasons (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-15/asx-delists-six-chinese-companies-in-2018/10786062): "The reasons for its removal included corporate governance concerns, failure to inform the market of successful legal proceedings against one of its subsidiaries and completing the transfer of shares in a subsidiary without shareholder approval."

Patrick Byrom
30-11-2019, 12:03 PM
... Nick Arama, Redstate, 24 Nov 2019 ...
The scientists took on that myth. “Please, let’s have a discussion!” begged astrophysicist Willie Soon. ... But, as Stossel observes, the other side doesn’t want to debate, they just want to impose their will, without question.... :P:P:P Anytime you want to discuss the laws of physics, I'm ready!

MichaelBaron
01-12-2019, 03:26 PM
https://notrickszone.com/2017/10/16/recent-co2-climate-sensitivity-estimates-continue-trending-towards-zero/?fbclid=IwAR3jDodqSqYLU_JRNVRQoTLeyij87E8KSqUK4pSS __yUIOOiredilZa8C0U

MichaelBaron
01-12-2019, 03:27 PM
https://notrickszone.com/2017/10/16/recent-co2-climate-sensitivity-estimates-continue-trending-towards-zero/?fbclid=IwAR3jDodqSqYLU_JRNVRQoTLeyij87E8KSqUK4pSS __yUIOOiredilZa8C0U

Would you consider this to be an academic paper? :)

Patrick Byrom
01-12-2019, 04:17 PM
Would you consider this to be an academic paper? :)I assume that question is directed to yourself? :)

Ian Murray
01-12-2019, 04:38 PM
Would you consider this to be an academic paper? :)

No. Does NoTricksZone sound like an academic peer-reviewed journal? :)

Ian Murray
01-12-2019, 05:30 PM
https://notrickszone.com/2017/10/16/recent-co2-climate-sensitivity-estimates-continue-trending-towards-zero/?fbclid=IwAR3jDodqSqYLU_JRNVRQoTLeyij87E8KSqUK4pSS __yUIOOiredilZa8C0U

The article cherry-picks 14 pre-2015 ECS climate sensitivity studies to show a 'decreasing trend'.

Compare this with 96 pre-2015 ECS studies (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bw2XU3FCw9a__Z5Y9YGfCWU-ohzuhFJ8_gcGyIsTECE/edit#gid=0) used by Carbon Brief (https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-how-scientists-estimate-climate-sensitivity) based on data from a 2017 Nature Geoscience paper (https://www.nature.com/articles/ngeo3017) by Prof Reto Knutti and colleagues at ETH Zurich:

3963
Compilation of climate sensitivity studies adapted from Knutti et al 2017 and extended through March 2019 based on a Google Scholar search of “climate sensitivity” and consultation with researchers. Dots show the best estimate of sensitivity from each study, which may be mean, median, or other metric, depending on the study. Bars show the uncertainty range, which may be one sigma, 90%, or two sigma depending on the study. The black dotted line represents a smoothed LOESS fit to the best estimates, while the grey range shows similar fits to the high and low estimates.


....The range of sensitivity across all of these studies has likely narrowed slightly over time, though the average has remained fairly close to 3C. Contrary to claims on a number of climate sceptic websites, there is no evidence of any downward trend in sensitivity in recent years when all studies are considered.
- Carbon Brief

MichaelBaron
01-12-2019, 08:38 PM
The article cherry-picks 14 pre-2015 ECS climate sensitivity studies to show a 'decreasing trend'.

Compare this with 96 pre-2015 ECS studies (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bw2XU3FCw9a__Z5Y9YGfCWU-ohzuhFJ8_gcGyIsTECE/edit#gid=0) used by Carbon Brief (https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-how-scientists-estimate-climate-sensitivity) based on data from a 2017 Nature Geoscience paper (https://www.nature.com/articles/ngeo3017) by Prof Reto Knutti and colleagues at ETH Zurich:

3963
Compilation of climate sensitivity studies adapted from Knutti et al 2017 and extended through March 2019 based on a Google Scholar search of “climate sensitivity” and consultation with researchers. Dots show the best estimate of sensitivity from each study, which may be mean, median, or other metric, depending on the study. Bars show the uncertainty range, which may be one sigma, 90%, or two sigma depending on the study. The black dotted line represents a smoothed LOESS fit to the best estimates, while the grey range shows similar fits to the high and low estimates.


....The range of sensitivity across all of these studies has likely narrowed slightly over time, though the average has remained fairly close to 3C. Contrary to claims on a number of climate sceptic websites, there is no evidence of any downward trend in sensitivity in recent years when all studies are considered.
- Carbon Brief

Can I interpret what you are saying as a) this is not an acceptable study and findings should not be considered or b) I disagree with it due to....''cherry-picking'' cases etc? :).

P.S note that at least in this study there are no assumptions as opposed to studies that claim specific climate changes over 300=500 years.

Patrick Byrom
01-12-2019, 09:20 PM
Can I interpret what you are saying as a) this is not an acceptable study and findings should not be considered or b) I disagree with it due to....''cherry-picking'' cases etc? :).Are you seriously suggesting that it's scientifically acceptable to "cherry-pick" results? The original study was published in the "International Journal of Heat and Technology", hardly a major journal, and not an obvious place to publish articles on climate change - which is enough reason to consider it dubious.


P.S note that at least in this study there are no assumptions as opposed to studies that claim specific climate changes over 300=500 years.No assumptions!!? So where did the red and blue lines come from? Here's the original paper (http://www.iieta.org/sites/default/files/Journals/IJHT/35.Sp01_03.pdf) - there are no details of how they derived those lines, why they used a linear fit to scattered data, or what the errors in that fit are! Just to make my point absolutely clear, fitting data to a straight line involves a huge set of assumptions!

Patrick Byrom
02-12-2019, 06:21 PM
Back in the real world (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/02/great-barrier-reef-world-heritage-values-damaged-climate-change-government-admits):

Australia has conceded in an official report that the Great Barrier Reef’s unique values as a world heritage site have been adversely affected by climate change. In the report to Unesco’s world heritage committee, the Queensland and federal governments say the reef is “an icon under pressure with a deteriorating long-term outlook”. ... The report says mass coral bleaching events of 2016 and 2017, together with six tropical cyclones, flood plumes and outbreaks of coral-eating crown-of-thorns starfish “have impacted the [outstanding universal value] of the property since the last State Party Report in 2015”.

Capablanca-Fan
03-12-2019, 08:02 AM
:P:P:P Anytime you want to discuss the laws of physics, I'm ready!

No dispute about the laws of physics, but their application, computer modelling, and whether proposed solutions will do more good than harm.

Capablanca-Fan
03-12-2019, 08:06 AM
Clean Free Market Policy Beats a Carbon Tax. Here's Why. (https://reason.com/2019/12/02/clean-free-market-policy-beats-a-carbon-tax-heres-why)
Clean technologies can compete (and win) if barriers to participation are removed.
JIGAR SHAH AND ROD RICHARDSON, Reason, 2 Dec 2019

The second and more crucial issue is that a carbon tax does nothing to address the true culprits slowing deployment of clean energy solutions: the real-world monopoly barriers and technological constraints (https://www.forbes.com/sites/waynewinegarden/2018/09/28/free-market-environmentalism/#78e67ddf1f1a).

Carbon tax advocates believe fossil fuel penalties will force a shift to clean energy, but that shift is sometimes blocked by closed markets in which arcane rules protect incumbent monopolies. It's also sometimes blocked by the limitations of geography—solar energy thrives in Chile, for example, but it will be more expensive for fewer hours a day in Canada

Nor would a carbon tax make it easier for entrepreneurs to start auto companies, get vehicles through safety testing (https://www.nationalreview.com/the-agenda/jigar-shah-barriers-energy-innovation-reihan-salam/), or navigate complex Environmental Protection Agency rules on fuel diversity—the kinds of innovations that are crucial to confronting climate change.

Given these real world constraints, to trigger a rapid shift from high to low carbon energy, we'd need a very high carbon price—one that would make energy prohibitively expensive, imposing crippling costs on both consumers and businesses. Fear of such high costs sparks opposition. Gridlock has made a carbon tax federally dead on arrival, and thus completely ineffective as a policy proposal.

There's a third problem, too: All of this is outdated and off-target. Clean energy technologies are now less expensive than fossil fuels (https://spectator.org/earth-day-shocker-capitalism-saves-the-planet-part-1/). Price is no longer the critical barrier. Technology limitations and politically-imposed market barriers are what's slowing deployment.

Fortunately, new and better policy tools are at hand.

If clean technologies can now compete and win, then we need to open closed markets by removing barriers to participation.

That's the core proposal of clean free market policy (https://cleancapitalistleadershipcouncil.org/proposals/). Several free market think tanks (including the Reason Foundation, the nonprofit which publishes Reason) have distilled this insight into The Declaration on Energy Choice & Competition (http://choices.energy/), which calls on government leaders to protect everyone's right to produce, buy, or trade the clean, reliable energy of their choice, and remove barriers to energy competition.

Patrick Byrom
03-12-2019, 12:48 PM
No dispute about the laws of physics, but their application, computer modelling, and whether proposed solutions will do more good than harm.So increases in man-made carbon dioxide will generate increases in temperature, as predicted by the laws of physics?

Capablanca-Fan
04-12-2019, 02:15 AM
So increases in man-made carbon dioxide will generate increases in temperature, as predicted by the laws of physics?

Sure, CO₂ absorbs electromagnetic radiation in the infrared region, which will increase temperature. This part is not disputed.

Blunderbuss
04-12-2019, 09:07 AM
Sure, CO₂ absorbs electromagnetic radiation in the infrared region, which will increase temperature. This part is not disputed.

I guess it's interesting to me then to ask what part do you dispute?

For example do you also agree with...

The carbon cycle balanced until human ingenuity ushered in the “Industrial Age.” Many good things came from that. I love my home with electric light and winter-time heating. Those of us reading on a computer or digital device are beneficiaries of developments bringing much useful, interesting, and pain-relieving technology that serves humans — even though part of the cost is widespread fossil fuel use and more CO2 emissions than the natural cycle can handle. The current situation stands at ~45% over-normal levels of CO2 in the atmosphere, identified as human-added with high confidence. Scientists know this because the carbon isotopes are out of balance.

https://medium.com/age-of-awareness/the-1-000-year-ouch-3c8dfaf7ad82 (https://medium.com/age-of-awareness/the-1-000-year-ouch-3c8dfaf7ad82)

And therefore the articles conculsions: -

Leave it in the ground.
Reduce the rate of annual emissions
Finally, remove excess carbon dioxide from the air.

Patrick Byrom
04-12-2019, 09:45 AM
Sure, CO₂ absorbs electromagnetic radiation in the infrared region, which will increase temperature. This part is not disputed.
So the more carbon dioxide we pump into the atmosphere, the higher the temperature becomes? Which means that Brisbane, which has maximum temperatures close to 40C in summer at present, will have maximum temperatures close to 50C in summer if our output of carbon dioxide is not restricted.

Capablanca-Fan
04-12-2019, 11:33 AM
So the more carbon dioxide we pump into the atmosphere, the higher the temperature becomes? Which means that Brisbane, which has maximum temperatures close to 40C in summer at present, will have maximum temperatures close to 50C in summer if our output of carbon dioxide is not restricted.

That's what I mean about going beyond the physical evidence to scaremongering, to justify more taxes and government control, the real motivation behind most green activists who are really watermelons.

Patrick Byrom
04-12-2019, 01:24 PM
That's what I mean about going beyond the physical evidence to scaremongering, to justify more taxes and government control, the real motivation behind most green activists who are really watermelons.So you don't accept the laws of physics? Thanks for confirming that!

Ian Murray
04-12-2019, 05:05 PM
Greta Thunberg looked a little overwhelmed this morning by the size of the crowd waiting to welcome her to Lisbon. She and her father travelled from USA aboard the catamaran La Vagabonde (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZdQjaSoLjIzFnWsDQOv4ww) belonging to a young Australian couple (and their toddler son). Also aboard as skipper for the 21-day Atlantic crossing was accomplished English yachtswoman Nikki Henderson. (https://www.facebook.com/nikki.henderson.sailing/)

Patrick Byrom
04-12-2019, 06:03 PM
I guess it's interesting to me then to ask what part do you dispute?A good question. As you can see from his reply, Capablanca-Fan can't actually explain what is wrong with my conclusion - he just refuses to accept it!

Ian Murray
04-12-2019, 07:55 PM
Huge influx of solar will reduce risk of power outages this summer, says AEMO (https://reneweconomy.com.au/huge-influx-of-solar-will-reduce-risk-of-power-outages-this-summer-says-aemo-39807/)
Renew Economy
4.12.19

Australian consumers face the risk of power outages this summer because of the threat of bushfires, heatwaves and increasingly unreliable coal generators, but the Australian Energy Market Operator says the surge in solar installations in the past 12 months will lessen the risks.

“The Bureau of Meteorology (BoM) is forecasting both warmer than average and extreme temperatures this summer, and an ongoing and significant risk of bushfires with drier than usual conditions,” AEMO chief executive Audrey Zibelman says in a statement accompanying its Summer 2019/20 Readiness Plan.

“These risks add to the deteriorating reliability of some of the older coal generation plants.”

But Zibelman says that since last summer, AEMO “is pleased to see” 3,700 megawatts (MW) of increased generation in the National Electricity Market, with rooftop and grid-scale solar generation representing approximately 90 per cent of this increase.

“The introduction of these resources delivers a welcomed improvement to reliability and reduces the need to procure further out of market reserves,” Zibelman said. ...

Those two key messages – increasingly unreliable coal generators, and increased reliability from solar – may be hard to swallow for some conservative politicians and commentators, many of whom secretly – and some, such as energy minister Angus Taylor’s wife, not so secretly – wish for outages to “teach lefties a lesson” and “prove” their theory that renewables don’t work.

But the changes are a growing reality. The coal fleet is ageing and becoming increasingly expensive to maintain and prone to failing in the heat ...

Ian Murray
05-12-2019, 05:30 PM
Marinus Link Project Assessments Released (https://www.energynetworks.com.au/news/media-releases/2019-media-releases/marinus-link-project-assessments-released/)

Marinus Link is the proposed 1,500 MW capacity second undersea electricity transmission interconnector between Tasmania and Victoria. ...

“Interconnection between markets provides greater flexibility, better reliability and can deliver more affordable electricity for customers.

“This project will allow up to 1,500 MW of renewable generation to be supplied to the National Electricity Market.

“With the rise of variable solar and wind generation, unlocking the hydro capacity of Tasmania to store and generate electricity will help keep the lights on and businesses running.” ...

MichaelBaron
05-12-2019, 06:06 PM
https://www.en24.news/2019/12/spanish-club-offers-greta-thunberg-donkey-for-onward-journey.html

Greta now has a chance to use ''most environmentally-friendly transport'' :)

Ian Murray
05-12-2019, 09:55 PM
https://www.en24.news/2019/12/spanish-club-offers-greta-thunberg-donkey-for-onward-journey.html

Greta now has a chance to use ''most environmentally-friendly transport'' :)

Unfortunately, due to time constraints, she is travelling by rail. If she caught the Wednesday night train she'd be in Madrid and we'd have heard of her arrival. There is no Thursday service (or it's fully booked) so I expect her to be on the Friday night train, arriving in Madrid at 8:40 Saturday morning.

Ian Murray
06-12-2019, 07:31 AM
Unfortunately, due to time constraints, she is travelling by rail. If she caught the Wednesday night train she'd be in Madrid and we'd have heard of her arrival. There is no Thursday service (or it's fully booked) so I expect her to be on the Friday night train, arriving in Madrid at 8:40 Saturday morning.

She posted this on Facebook about 8.40pm 5th Dec Lisbon time, so she must have been about to board the train, overnighting to Madrid:


Tomorrow December 6th we strike again around the world for the climate!
I’ll join the strike in Madrid at #COP25 18.00 at Atocha! See you there!
#FridaysForFuture #ClimateStrike #schoolstrike4climate

Ian Murray
06-12-2019, 08:19 AM
Greta Thunberg's La Vagabonde voyage let an Aussie family meet the girl behind a climate movement (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-05/the-real-greta-thunberg-emerged-aboard-la-vagabonde/11766208?sf225338720=1&fbclid=IwAR1Jg2UMZWwwqCr8PZSGtEbVbT
MFDU2KFNbmQCw7H8wqb9JyX0s0O4xUIyM)

Over the past year, Greta Thunberg has become a global environmental icon
An Aussie family offered her a lift to Europe when she became stuck in the US
Over the course of the trip they saw a very different side to the climate crusader...

Ian Murray
06-12-2019, 10:21 AM
That's what I mean about going beyond the physical evidence to scaremongering, to justify more taxes and government control, the real motivation behind most green activists who are really watermelons.

...The severity of possible future temperature extremes poses serious challenges for preparedness for future climatic change. The enhanced Victoria and NSW extremes simulated in HAPPI indicate the possibility that sites within major Australian cities, such Sydney or Melbourne, could incur unprecedented temperatures of 50°C under 2°C of global mean warming. While insights into the timing of such extremes likely depends on the validity of the models used here, such unprecedented temperatures would present onerous challenges to human and natural systems (Perkins, 2015). The magnitude of such extremes is decreased by curbing warming at 1.5°C but increased by maintaining emissions at the RCP8.5 trajectory. ...

Lewis, S. C., King, A. D., & Mitchell, D. M. ( 2017). Australia's unprecedented future temperature extremes under Paris limits to warming. Geophysical Research Letters, 44, 9947– 9956. https://doi.org/10.1002/2017GL074612

Blunderbuss
06-12-2019, 10:23 AM
How-climate-change-has-impacted-your-life (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-06/how-climate-change-has-impacted-your-life/11766018)

This is a fabulous piece of data visualisation that shows the reality of climate change in YOUR lifetime and the impact of the 2 choices we have as a society - do nothing, or do something.

Ian Murray
07-12-2019, 08:49 AM
3969

Australia is being battered by extreme
weather events, made worse by climate
change. The summer of 2019/20 is shaping
up as another terrible trifecta of heatwaves,
droughts and bushfires.

› The projections for the summer of 2019/20
are extremely concerning. The Bureau of
Meteorology is forecasting above average
maximum temperatures for most of Australia
with eastern Australia – already plagued by
drought – likely to be drier than average...
Climate change is making many extreme
weather events in Australia worse....

› Climate change is now making hot days hotter,
and heatwaves longer and more frequent. This
has implications for bushfre weather, with fre
seasons starting earlier and lasting longer.

› Long-term heating and the reduction in cool
season rainfall in mainland southern Australia
are exacerbating drought conditions....

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/resources/dangerous-summer-escalating-bushfire-heat-drought-risk/#three

Ian Murray
07-12-2019, 07:34 PM
500,000 turn out for Madrid climate strike yesterday

3971

https://www.facebook.com/gretathunbergsweden/

ER
07-12-2019, 09:55 PM
Is that xr-stinker getting paid for scratching fleas (or is it bed bugs) off Greta's sculp? :D :P

3972

antichrist
07-12-2019, 10:02 PM
Is that xr-stinker getting paid for scratching fleas (or is it bed bugs) off Greta's sculp? :D :P

3972

I think you will see that she is clutching an object, probably electronic behind Greta's head. I would have preferred a good cross analogy.

Capablanca-Fan
08-12-2019, 02:05 PM
MADRID, Spain — Meet the Anti -Greta. Her name is Naomi Seibt, she’s 19 years old, but unlike some teenage activists we could mention she is most definitely not welcome at the UN’s COP25 climate conference. That’s because she believes the global warming scare is a massive hoax. (https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/12/05/meet-naomi-seibt-19-the-anti-greta-climate-heroine/)
James Delingpole, 5 Dec

Worse — and being a German, she should know — Naomi believes that her Chancellor’s green policies are steering her country inexorably towards the kind of totalitarianism it last experienced in the 1930s and the 1940s.

Naomi’s outspoken position on such issues as Angela Merkel’s disastrous immigration policy and climate change mark her as the kind of brave, independent-minded, intelligent teenager of whom any parent could be proud.

Again, unlike some hatchet-faced, brainwashed, finger-wagging puppets of the climate industrial complex we could mention.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8dXpe1Pp6Q&feature=youtu.be

Patrick Byrom
08-12-2019, 03:17 PM
MADRID, Spain — Meet the Anti -Greta. Her name is Naomi Seibt, she’s 19 years old, but unlike some teenage activists we could mention she is most definitely not welcome at the UN’s COP25 climate conference. That’s because she believes the global warming scare is a massive hoax. (https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/12/05/meet-naomi-seibt-19-the-anti-greta-climate-heroine/)James Delingpole, 5 DecThe only people who believe this are those who don't accept the laws of physics - like Capablanca-Fan.


Again, unlike some hatchet-faced, brainwashed, finger-wagging puppets of the climate industrial complex we could mention.It seems Capablanca-Fan, like ER, can't stop himself from making personal attacks on teenage girls.

ER
08-12-2019, 04:23 PM
I don't agree with parts of Roger Pielke's article in Forbes such as …


Human-caused climate change is of course real and a significant concern.

which is loads of crap - humans are too powerless to cause any damage to the planet

3973

However parts of it such as


Decisions made within the IPCC have contributed to the apocalyptic turn in discussions of climate, moving us away from constructive discussions, scaring children and contributing to overheated rhetoric. To understand the role of the IPCC in in recent rise of climate doom requires understanding how the body performs its assessments.

are quite sound...

Well apocalyptic rhetorics such as those referred to in the article do not only scare children but silly adults like the simpleton xr stinkers of this forum as well

antichrist
08-12-2019, 05:24 PM
I don't agree with parts of Roger Pielke's article in Forbes such as …



which is loads of crap - humans are too powerless to cause any damage to the planet

3973

However parts of it such as



are quite sound...

Well apocalyptic rhetorics such as those referred to in the article do not only scare children but silly adults like the simpleton xr stinkers of this forum as well
Is that any different to saying a little ant or virus could not kill a human

Patrick Byrom
08-12-2019, 05:24 PM
I don't agree with parts of Roger Pielke's article in Forbes such as … which is loads of crap - humans are too powerless to cause any damage to the planetI don't know whether to laugh or cry! That any educated adult can actually believe such nonsense is extremely disturbing.


Well apocalyptic rhetorics such as those referred to in the article do not only scare children but silly adults like the simpleton xr stinkers of this forum as wellWho needs rhetoric? I just have to look out the window to see the effects of the current bushfire season. Anyone who isn't worried about what's to come in the future in Australia as global heating intensifies is an idiot.

Patrick Byrom
08-12-2019, 05:47 PM
Is that any different to saying a little ant or virus could not kill a humanExactly. I hope ER is aware that a virus, despite being much much smaller than a human being, can still kill you. As many people in Samoa have tragically learned. I hope he's also aware that ignoring the scientific consensus, as many Samoans unfortunately did, rarely has good outcomes.

antichrist
08-12-2019, 08:12 PM
When a four year old I was incredulous and fascinated that a whole tree of fruit could grow from a tiny seed so I went planting seeds every where and watering them. Years later the whole neighbourhood loved me. I had more sense as a four year old than ER has when eighteen times old than me. I know he loves my rustic non scientific homilies

Ian Murray
08-12-2019, 08:33 PM
[B]MADRID, Spain — Meet the Anti -Greta....

Brought to us by Capa Fan, Breitbart and The Heartland Institute. I don't know about Capa, but Breitbart and Heartland are generously supported by far-right billionaires dedicated to discrediting climate change

As for their Anti-Greta, anyone who still claims that climate scientists and not real scientists, and real scientists are being sacked, still believes in fairies.

Germany is feeling the effects of climate change, and they will get worse even though the country is decarbonising relatively quickly.

[url]https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/en/topics/climate-energy/climate-change-adaptation/impacts-of-climate-change/climate-impacts-germany (https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/12/05/meet-naomi-seibt-19-the-anti-greta-climate-heroine/)

Ian Murray
08-12-2019, 08:42 PM
Exactly. I hope ER is aware that a virus, despite being much much smaller than a human being, can still kill you. As many people in Samoa have tragically learned. I hope he's also aware that ignoring the scientific consensus, as many Samoans unfortunately did, rarely has good outcomes.

And half a gram of cyanide will kill you. Small doesn't mean insignificant - the atmospheric carbon dioxide content may only be 0.04%, but that's a 40% increase in 80 years, raising the surface temperature of the whole planet by 1°C so far. Melbourne and Sydney are looking at 50°C+ extreme temperatures in the decades ahead.

antichrist
08-12-2019, 09:11 PM
And half a gram of cyanide will kill you. Small doesn't mean insignificant - the atmospheric carbon dioxide content may only be 0.04%, but that's a 40% increase in 80 years, raising the surface temperature of the whole planet by 1°C so far. Melbourne and Sydney are looking at 50°C+ extreme temperatures in the decades ahead.

What is the fatal dose of plutonium and how does that compare with the weight of the human body? My old anti-nuke day are becoming fuzzy.

antichrist
08-12-2019, 09:13 PM
Brought to us by Capa Fan, Breitbart and The Heartland Institute. I don't know about Capa, but Breitbart and Heartland are generously supported by far-right billionaires dedicated to discrediting climate change

As for their Anti-Greta, anyone who still claims that climate scientists and not real scientists, and real scientists are being sacked, still believes in fairies.

Germany is feeling the effects of climate change, and they will get worse even though the country is decarbonising relatively quickly.

https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/en/topics/climate-energy/climate-change-adaptation/impacts-of-climate-change/climate-impacts-germany

I had a German friend fifteen years ago and upon returning from a holiday there she was shocked about the lack of snow for that time of year.

antichrist
08-12-2019, 11:08 PM
ER claims that humans cannot effect the planet. If the whole 7 billion of us got on the equator and ran in the opposite direction of the planet's rotation the day would become a lot shorter throwing everything out of synchronicity. ER would be spilling his beer.

MichaelBaron
08-12-2019, 11:55 PM
I had a German friend fifteen years ago and upon returning from a holiday there she was shocked about the lack of snow for that time of year.

A highly scientific argument indeed :)

Ian Murray
09-12-2019, 07:39 AM
Speaking of German scientists, the world-renowned Max Planck Institutes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Max_Planck_Institutes) have been making news lately

Max Planck Institute for Astrophysics hit by bullying allegations (https://physicsworld.com/a/max-planck-institute-for-astrophysics-hit-by-bullying-allegations/)

Germany’s prestigious Max Planck Society conducts huge bullying survey (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02052-2)

antichrist
09-12-2019, 08:19 AM
A highly scientific argument indeed :)

It obviously wasn't being presented as a scientific argument - a scientific argument as presented by others here is a complete waste. I have more success with ER by reciting homilies. I notice that no one has reputed my fishpond analogy yet. Only common senses is required.

Ian Murray
09-12-2019, 09:39 AM
3974

Ian Murray
09-12-2019, 09:48 AM
Hayne rebukes directors on climate risk failure (https://www.afr.com/policy/energy-and-climate/hayne-rebukes-directors-on-climate-risk-failure-20191206-p53hnd)
Financial Review
9.12.19

Former High Court judge and royal commissioner Kenneth Hayne has warned directors they have a legal duty to act on climate change risk, include it in corporate strategies and report on it to shareholders, raising the real prospect that boards failing to act could end up in court.

In a private address to business leaders, regulators and government officials hosted by think tank, the Centre for Policy Development, Mr Hayne also took a swipe at the Morrison government, which has come under criticism for its unambitious emissions reduction policies.

He said both "learned helplessness" and "short-termism" yielded "a result that fits comfortably with those who still see climate change as a matter of belief or ideology".
....

Ian Murray
09-12-2019, 11:03 AM
I don't agree with parts of Roger Pielke's article in Forbes such as …



which is loads of crap - humans are too powerless to cause any damage to the planet

3975

ER
09-12-2019, 04:17 PM
effing hell blimey was that a result of bloody man involvement?

Someone must have jinxed me!

shows you how irrelevant your silly arguments can be in regards to natural disasters.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-09/new-zealand-volcano-erupts-on-white-island/11780540

I better get my arse out of this joint sooner rather than later too!

ER
09-12-2019, 04:29 PM
I have more success with ER by reciting homilies.

shut your ars.. trap I am still mad at you!

Ian Murray
09-12-2019, 06:15 PM
Coalition said 50% renewables would wreck the economy. Now their modest climate targets depend on it (https://reneweconomy.com.au/coalition-said-50-renewables-would-wreck-the-economy-now-their-modest-climate-targets-depend-on-it-69429/)
Renew Economy
8.12.19

Remember how the federal Coalition government described Labor’s 50 per cent renewable energy target for 2030 “as reckless” and an “economy wrecker.”

Energy minister Angus Taylor even went so far as saying that that level of renewables would “de-industrialse the economy”. Now, it turns out, Taylor is relying on Australia reaching 50 per cent renewable energy by 2030 to deliver the only physical cut in emissions that he expects to achievein the next 10 years.

The extraordinary admission is included in the latest update on the country’s emissions outlook, which Taylor – who doubles as emissions reductions minister – says outlines “to the last tonne” how the Coalition is tracking towards the government target of cutting overall emissions by 26-28 per cent by 2030.

The document says that target will be exceeded, but only through the use of an accounting loophole damned by climate scientists and rejected by more than 100 countries at the climate talks in Madrid. The other major source of reductions comes through the dramatic switch to a level of renewables that the Coalition insisted in the last election campaign was impossible and would kill the economy. ...

Patrick Byrom
10-12-2019, 07:35 PM
I wonder how we're supposed to 'adapt' to this (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/dec/10/sydneys-air-11-times-worse-than-hazardous-levels-as-australias-bushfires-rage):

Sydney disappeared behind a thick layer bushfire smoke that blanketed the city and pushed air quality 11 times higher than considered “hazardous” on Tuesday, while Australia’s weary firefighters faced what authorities warned were the potentially “lethal” combination of high temperatures and heavy winds. Across Sydney, buildings were evacuated regularly as fire alarms were triggered at random. During the morning commute, the sound of the ferries using their fog horns due to the poor visibility filled the area surrounding the harbour before the entire fleet was finally grounded. Schools kept children inside during their lunch break and face masks became a regular accoutrement as Sydney’s landmarks were lost in the haze.

antichrist
11-12-2019, 06:46 AM
I wonder how we're supposed to 'adapt' to this (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/dec/10/sydneys-air-11-times-worse-than-hazardous-levels-as-australias-bushfires-rage):

Sydney disappeared behind a thick layer bushfire smoke that blanketed the city and pushed air quality 11 times higher than considered “hazardous” on Tuesday, while Australia’s weary firefighters faced what authorities warned were the potentially “lethal” combination of high temperatures and heavy winds. Across Sydney, buildings were evacuated regularly as fire alarms were triggered at random. During the morning commute, the sound of the ferries using their fog horns due to the poor visibility filled the area surrounding the harbour before the entire fleet was finally grounded. Schools kept children inside during their lunch break and face masks became a regular accoutrement as Sydney’s landmarks were lost in the haze.

I think ER's solution would be to burn all the trees down so that they could not then burn and cause smoke haze.

Capablanca-Fan
11-12-2019, 08:40 AM
3974

This was known at least 40 years ago. Kiwis visiting Australia in the summer would ask, "How do you grow yellow grass?"

Climate alarmists: Really hot day, hurricane, or forest fire: see, man-made global warming is a danger.

Also climate alarmists: Global warming conference snowed in or snow in the Australian summer: see, climate-change deniers can't tell the difference between weather and climate.

Capablanca-Fan
11-12-2019, 08:42 AM
ExxonMobil Did Not Mislead Shareholders About Climate Risks, Rules New York Court (https://reason.com/2019/12/10/exxonmobil-did-not-mislead-shareholders-about-climate-risks-rules-new-york-court)
New York Attorney General Letitia James loses a trumped up fraud lawsuit against the oil company.
RONALD BAILEY, Reason, 10 Dec 2019

Grandstanding New York state Attorney General Eric T. Schneiderman began a case in 2015 against ExxonMobil in which he accused the company of lying to its shareholders about what it knew of the risks of climate change to its future profits. The attorney general's office calculated that the damage to shareholders could be as high as $1.6 billion.

After a three-week civil trial, state Supreme Court Justice Barry Ostrager today ruled, "The Office of the Attorney General failed to prove, by a preponderance of the evidence, that ExxonMobil made any material misstatements or omissions about its practices and procedures that misled any reasonable investor."

According to CNBC, the case against ExxonMobil was dismissed "with prejudice" which means that it is unlikely Letitia James, the state's current attorney general, will seek to file another lawsuit against the company.

Patrick Byrom
11-12-2019, 09:56 AM
... Climate alarmists: Really hot day, hurricane, or forest fire: see, man-made global warming is a danger.Record temperatures combined with record drought combined with record bushfires combined with Sydney covered by a smoke haze - all predicted by the laws of physics. Climate rejectors: Nothing to see here! :P

Ian Murray
11-12-2019, 10:39 AM
This was known at least 40 years ago. Kiwis visiting Australia in the summer would ask, "How do you grow yellow grass?"

Climate alarmists: Really hot day, hurricane, or forest fire: see, man-made global warming is a danger.

Also climate alarmists: Global warming conference snowed in or snow in the Australian summer: see, climate-change deniers can't tell the difference between weather and climate.

I can remember when Sydney often peaked at 103°F in summer, which was sweltering. But 103F is only 39.4C; nowadays north of 40C (104F) is commonplace. The record set a few years ago was 45.8 (114.4F).

Daily temperatures are weather, the warming trend is climate.

Blunderbuss
11-12-2019, 01:05 PM
Climate-science-requires-acceptance-not-belief-or-full-understanding (https://medium.com/the-future-is-electric/climate-science-requires-acceptance-not-belief-or-full-understanding-b635043bdbcb)

Interesting read, starts by comparing understanding Climate Change with understanding Gravity and then says…


Climate change skeptics and deniers look at this and their brains melt and run out of their ears. They accept that GPS works, that planes fly, and that people have walked on the moon, stuff that they have a pretty equal lack of understanding of. But then they turn around and reject the science of climate change, something that they understand just as poorly.

They will happily point to inexpert experts such as Nobel Laureates in solid-state electronics who are skeptical about global warming, but will claim that citing the IPCC and actual climate scientists is the logical fallacy of appeal to false authority. In other words, they are guilty of the thing that they claim you are guilty of (a familiar pattern).

Ian Murray
11-12-2019, 08:03 PM
Eerie views of Sydney obscured by smoke

Sydney smoke: bushfires haze smothers landmarks – in pictures (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/gallery/2019/dec/10/sydneys-top-landmarks-smothered-in-smoke-in-pictures)

antichrist
11-12-2019, 10:37 PM
Eerie views of Sydney obscured by smoke

Sydney smoke: bushfires haze smothers landmarks – in pictures (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/gallery/2019/dec/10/sydneys-top-landmarks-smothered-in-smoke-in-pictures)

Gee those shots are hazy and out of focus - I am sure ER with his photography mastery could make them clear - it is all a hoax.

Ian Murray
12-12-2019, 06:09 AM
Gee those shots are hazy and out of focus - I am sure ER with his photography mastery could make them clear - it is all a hoax.

:)

Ian Murray
12-12-2019, 06:41 AM
Greta Thunberg named Time magazine's person of the year (https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/11/greta-thunberg-time-magazine-person-of-the-year-2019)

Greta Thunberg, the teen activist from Sweden who has urged immediate action to address a global climate crisis, was named Time magazine’s person of the year for 2019 on Wednesday. She is the youngest person to have ever received the accolade.

Thunberg, 16, was lauded by Time for starting an environmental campaign in August 2018 which became a global movement, initially skipping school and camping out in front of the Swedish parliament to demand action.

“In the 16 months since, she has addressed heads of state at the UN, met with the pope, sparred with the president of the United States and inspired 4 million people to join the global climate strike on September 20, 2019, in what was the largest climate demonstration in human history,” the magazine said. ...

3980

Capablanca-Fan
12-12-2019, 08:37 AM
Greta Thunberg named Time magazine's person of the year (https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/11/greta-thunberg-time-magazine-person-of-the-year-2019)

Greta Thunberg, the teen activist from Sweden who has urged immediate action to address a global climate crisis, was named Time magazine’s person of the year for 2019 on Wednesday. She is the youngest person to have ever received the accolade.

Almost exactly 80 years after Hitler was named Time's Person of the Year in 1939—and Hitler was also very good at using children for his own end (https://www.history.com/news/how-the-hitler-youth-turned-a-generation-of-kids-into-nazis)s.

Here's What's Wrong with Time Declaring Greta Thunberg Person of the Year (https://reason.com/2019/12/11/greta-thunberg-time-person-of-the-year)
Teen activists are righteously angry—but righteous anger does not produce sound public policy.
ROBBY SOAVE, Reason, 11 Dec 2019

As Nick Gillespie observed in a piece about her activism (https://reason.com/2019/09/24/think-globally-shame-constantly-the-rise-of-greta-thunberg-environmentalism/), Thunberg is an avatar of "catastrophic thinking," and wrongly pushes a message of doom and gloom:


Greta Thunberg's histrionics are likely heartfelt but neither they nor the deplorable responses they conjure are a guide forward to good environmental policy in a world that is getting richer every day. For the first time in human history, half the earth's population is middle class or wealthier (https://reason.com/2019/05/17/if-you-think-capitalism-is-dying-because-two-companies-control-90-percent-of-the-beer-americans-drink-go-home-youre-drunk/) and the rate of deaths from natural disasters is well below what it was even a few decades ago (https://ourworldindata.org/natural-disasters). Protecting all that is just as important as protecting the environment and, more importantly, those two goals are hardly mutually exclusive.

After decades of treating children as little more than pets, the media now gives too much weight to the opinions of teen activists, particularly when they protest about issues like climate change, gun violence in schools, income inequality, etc. As Ilya Somin has written (https://reason.com/2018/03/17/how-much-credence-should-we-give-to-the/), young people—even ones who can credibly claim to have been especially harmed by some crisis—do not generally have special insights or strong knowledge of public policy.

Ian Murray
12-12-2019, 10:40 AM
Almost exactly 80 years after Hitler was named Time's Person of the Year in 1939—and Hitler was also very good at using children for his own ends.

There is no connection - unless you're trying to create one


...half the earth's population is middle class or wealthier and the rate of deaths from natural disasters is well below what it was even a few decades ago. Protecting all that is just as important as protecting the environment and, more importantly, those two goals are hardly mutually exclusive....

Australia is burning and will keep on burning till winter, exacerbated by climate change. Australians don't want platitudes (we've already got the PM's thoughts and prayers), they want government action to meet the climate challenge.


...the media now gives too much weight to the opinions of teen activists, particularly when they protest about issues like climate change, gun violence in schools, income inequality, etc.…

If a 16yo can inspire 4 million to take to the streets, don't underestimate the power of youth, and their disillusionment with the men in suits.

New U.N. climate report offers ‘bleak’ emissions forecast (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/11/new-un-climate-report-offers-bleak-emissions-forecast)
Science
AAAS (American Association for the Advancement of Science)

...UNEP applauds heightened public pressure on governments to address climate change, yet laments that it's not nearly enough. The world's emissions have been increasing by about 1.5% per year for the past decade, it notes. That would lead to temperature increases of nearly 4°C by 2100, "bringing wide-ranging and destructive climate impacts."...

Ian Murray
12-12-2019, 11:13 AM
https://www.facebook.com/gretathunbergsweden/videos/567762677131987/

Ian Murray
12-12-2019, 03:04 PM
Almost exactly 80 years after Hitler was named Time's Person of the Year in 1939…

Come to think of it, in 1939 no-one had a greater impact on the world than Hitler

Ian Murray
12-12-2019, 03:29 PM
Prime Minister Scott Morrison justifies doing roughly nothing to reduce Australia’s greenhouse gas emissions while climate change wreaks havoc.


“We all know this is a national disaster and we knew this was going to be a very tough fire season when we went into this season. We also know that there are many contributing factors that relate to these fires. The drought is obviously – and the dryness of the bush is the biggest factor and we all know, as I acknowledged earlier this year in February, that climate change, along with many other factors, contribute to what is occurring today. Australia is 1.3 per cent of global emissions and New South Wales is I think less than 0.5 per cent of emissions. And so any suggestion that the actions of any state or any country with emissions of that order is directly linked to any weather event… is simply not true.”
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/deeply-troubling-and-unsettling-prime-minister-urges-calm-over-bushfires-20191212-p53j8t.html

Experts have contradicted Scott Morrison's claim that Australia's level of greenhouse gas emissions could not have increased the current level of risk from bushfires....

Climate Council head of research Dr Martin Rice said there was a direct link between climate change and heightened bushfire risk.

Global carbon project executive director and CSIRO research scientist Pep Canadell said Mr Morrison was "incorrect" to argue there was no link between Australia's emissions and climate change.

"It's the tragedy of the commons. Below the biggest emitters in China and the US you have dozens and dozens of countries contributing between 1.5 and 0.8 million tonnes, which adds up to the climate problem," Dr Canadell said.

"Because all the individual contributions are small no one feels responsible.

"Another way to put it is on my next tax bill, because my contribution to the country's revenue is so small, that it doesn't matter if I don't pay."

A recent analysis by RMIT ABC Fact Check estimated Australia's domestic emissions of about 1.3 million tonnes, coupled with the emissions embedded in its exports, represented about 3.6 per cent of global emissions in 2016.

CSIRO's most recent State of the Climate report found "there has been a long-term increase in extreme fire weather and in the length of the fire season across large parts of Australia since the 1950s".

Eight of Australia's 10 warmest years on record have occurred since 2005 and since the late 1990s there has been about an 11 per cent decline in cool-season rainfall between April and October in the south-east of the country.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/scott-morrison-incorrect-on-link-between-emissions-and-bushfires-20191121-p53crh.html

Patrick Byrom
12-12-2019, 04:20 PM
Come to think of it, in 1939 no-one had a greater impact on the world than HitlerThe selection is based on who the editors think has had the most influence on the world - Stalin and Churchill have both also been selected.

antichrist
12-12-2019, 05:31 PM
Come to think of it, in 1939 no-one had a greater impact on the world than Hitler

Capa Fan should be disputing this saying his hero, Mr JC (if he existed), had the greatest impact. But if Muslims outnumber Christians it could be Mr Muhammad. Considering that Christianity "stole" of lot of their principles from other religions an eastern philosopher could be judged the winner. But no one said it better than Gough - if there is a god I shall treat him as an equal. Actually that showdown has already occurred a pity there is no Optus coverage in Heaven.

idledim
13-12-2019, 01:04 PM
The selection is based on who the editors think has had the most influence on the world - Stalin and Churchill have both also been selected.

Correct - and the 2016 Time Person of the Year was Donald Trump. This year the editors disagreed with the readers. About 30% of Time readers voted for the Hong Kong protesters. Ms. Thunberg finished 5th., with about 4% of Time readers voting for her. She finished just behind Keanu Reeves and BTS (the Korean boy band).

idledim
13-12-2019, 01:16 PM
Come to think of it, in 1939 no-one had a greater impact on the world than Hitler

The Time editors clearly thought Stalin had a greater impact on the world than Hitler in 1939 because they made him the 1939 Man of the Year. Hitler was the editors choice in 1938.

MichaelBaron
14-12-2019, 12:13 AM
Come to think of it, in 1939 no-one had a greater impact on the world than Hitler

Stalin, Hitler and Greta...Great company! :)

Capablanca-Fan
14-12-2019, 01:38 AM
Greta Thunberg Is the Perfect Hero for an Unserious Time (https://townhall.com/columnists/davidharsanyi/2019/12/13/greta-thunberg-is-the-perfect-hero-for-an-unserious-time-n2557934)
David Harsanyi 13 Dec 2019


Has there ever been a less consequential person picked to be Person of the Year? I doubt it. I mean, Wallis Simpson, 1936's Person of the Year, got King Edward VIII to abdicate the throne. Thunberg can't even get you to abdicate your air-conditioning.

These days we celebrate vacuous fire and brimstone. "Greta Thunberg"—the idea, not the girl—is a concoction of activists who have increasingly taken to using children as a shield from critical analysis or debate. She's the vessel of the environmentalist's fraudulent apocalypticism-as-argument. Her style is emotion and indignation, histrionics and fantasy. She is a teenager, after all.

How dare you attack a poor defenseless child who suffers from Asperger syndrome!

You'll notice that, on one hand, Thunberg's champions demand that the world take her Malthusian crusade seriously, and on the other, they feign indignation when you actually do. The argument that young people, because they will inherit the future, are also best equipped to comprehend it is as puerile as any of Greta's positions.

Perhaps a better question is this: What kind of parents, editors, producers or U.N. officials would thrust a vulnerable child, with Asperger syndrome, no less, into a complex and contentious debate? I have great sympathy for her. It's her ideological handlers who have stolen her childhood.

Surely, we should be allowed to consider the positions of Time magazine's 2019 Person of the Year? Because the problem with Greta Thunberg—the idea, not the girl—is that she proposes not only that the people of her native Sweden abandon modernity but that billions of people in Asia and Africa remain in destitution. Greta, unlike many of her ideological allies, does not hide the truth of modern environmentalism. She believes that wealth and economic growth—modernity—are the problem.

Ian Murray
14-12-2019, 10:17 AM
...the problem with Greta Thunberg—the idea, not the girl—is that she proposes not only that the people of her native Sweden abandon modernity but that billions of people in Asia and Africa remain in destitution. Greta, unlike many of her ideological allies, does not hide the truth of modern environmentalism. She believes that wealth and economic growth—modernity—are the problem.…

Again the misrepresentation of climate action as a war on progress. The simple fact is that, without climate action, humanity faces a world of devastation. We have to stop polluting the atmosphere with carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases to mitigate against that present and future devastation. Mainly that means to stop burning carbon and hydrocarbons and use the alternatives science has been providing and will provide, as it has been doing for the last 300 years.

This year in Australia we've seen drought and floods and now catastrophic bushfires, still burning. Six lives, 720 homes, 2.7 million hectares (6.7m acres) lost. The PM saying we can't do anything about it, then belatedly committing a totally-inadequate $11m to bushfire aviation resources, is not good enough anymore.

And still the government plans to meet its low-ambition Paris emission targets, not by reducing emissions, but by fiddling the books and using leftover credits from the lapsed Kyoyo Protocol.

Patrick Byrom
14-12-2019, 10:53 AM
Stalin, Hitler and Greta...Great company! :)Churchill and FDR have also been selected - so Greta is in esteemed company.

Ian Murray
14-12-2019, 01:06 PM
Churchill and FDR have also been selected - so Greta is in esteemed company.

Not to mention Mahatma Gandhi, JFK, Martin Luther King Jr, Angela Merkel

antichrist
14-12-2019, 02:02 PM
We should have an environmentalist of the year award - Bob Brown etc.

MichaelBaron
16-12-2019, 10:45 AM
Brainwashing starts early these days: Sustainability pirate: https://www.facebook.com/Sunrise/videos/452198895470983/UzpfSTc1NTQ4NzIzNToyMjAyNTEyODcwMDQ1NDM1/

Kevin Bonham
16-12-2019, 11:00 AM
Brainwashing starts early these days: Sustainability pirate: https://www.facebook.com/Sunrise/videos/452198895470983/UzpfSTc1NTQ4NzIzNToyMjAyNTEyODcwMDQ1NDM1/

If the brainwashing of children is your concern, you're at least 2000 years too late.

antichrist
16-12-2019, 01:11 PM
Brainwashing starts early these days: Sustainability pirate: https://www.facebook.com/Sunrise/videos/452198895470983/UzpfSTc1NTQ4NzIzNToyMjAyNTEyODcwMDQ1NDM1/

Michael, the only females I can think of with a similar view to yourself are Pauline Hanson, Kellyanne Conway and Sarah Huckleberry Sanders but I would not wish them on anyone.

MichaelBaron
16-12-2019, 01:56 PM
Michael, the only females I can think of with a similar view to yourself are Pauline Hanson, Kellyanne Conway and Sarah Huckleberry Sanders but I would not wish them on anyone.

If you have such a primitive vision/understanding of my views...it is your problem :)

antichrist
16-12-2019, 03:41 PM
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/15/united-nations-climate-talks-collapse-after-trump-shuns-paris-pact-085464


Nations such as China, India, Brazil and Saudi Arabia appeared emboldened to push their arguments that the industrialized world – not their own surging economies – should bear the greatest burden for cutting the greenhouse gases that it has spewed for over a century
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brazil is cutting down al their rainforests so what are they complaining about. China probably creates more than it's fair share worth as well - just visit their industrial cities one cannot breath. India I don't know but I can't imagine them any better. And Saudi Arabia have probably had hundreds of oil refineries going for a hundred years so they can't complain. But maybe these were foreign owned.

ER
16-12-2019, 03:47 PM
3982

well Michael, we are lucky we're not politicians.
She wants politicians to be put against the wall!
Well, she apologized for that claiming that in the Sweedish language it's
an idiomatic expression meaning to be hold accountable or something!

Patrick Byrom
16-12-2019, 04:01 PM
3982
I'm confused about the cartoon. Is it blaming Thunberg for Time printing a magazine?

And, in context (https://www.thelocal.se/20191215/greta-thunberg-apologies-for-swenglish-slip-up), she obviously did not mean 'up against the wall':

"World leaders are still trying to run away from their responsibilities, but we have to make sure they cannot do that," she said. "We will make sure that we put them against the wall, and they will have to do their job to protect our futures." The phrase "against the wall", is a direct translation of the common Swedish phrase "ställa mot väggen", which means to "hold someone to account".

Ian Murray
16-12-2019, 07:34 PM
I'm confused about the cartoon. Is it blaming Thunberg for Time printing a magazine?

The attempted jibe is a nonsense of course, but is indicative of the efforts by trolls to discredit her, in this case for hypocrisy. There was one on Facebook I noticed the other day, mocking her over a photo of her eating breakfast on the Lisbon - Madrid train, 'an imported banana and a cling-wrapped sandwich, on a diesel-powered train'.

The advantage of her Asperger's is that all this stuff is water off a duck's back. She even turns it around, as with Donald Trump's cyber-bullying on Twitter: "So ridiculous. Greta must work on her Anger Management problem, then go to a good old fashioned movie with a friend! Chill Greta, Chill!"

She updated her Twitter bio to reflect Trump's comments: "A teenager working on her anger management problem. Currently chilling and watching a good old fashioned movie with a friend."

antichrist
16-12-2019, 07:41 PM
The attempted jibe is a nonsense of course, but is indicative of the efforts by trolls to discredit her, in this case for hypocrisy. There was one on Facebook I noticed the other day, mocking her over a photo of her eating breakfast on the Lisbon - Madrid train, 'an imported banana and a cling-wrapped sandwich, on a diesel-powered train'.

The advantage of her Asperger's is that all this stuff is water off a duck's back. She even turns it around, as with Donald Trump's cyber-bullying on Twitter: "So ridiculous. Greta must work on her Anger Management problem, then go to a good old fashioned movie with a friend! Chill Greta, Chill!"

She updated her Twitter bio to reflect Trump's comments: "A teenager working on her anger management problem. Currently chilling and watching a good old fashioned movie with a friend."

Greta would have more morals than the whole Trump clan put together. They were all stained in that charity foundation corruption.

Ian Murray
16-12-2019, 08:25 PM
And on it goes ...

Greta Thunberg in Twitter spat with train company over photo (https://au.news.yahoo.com/greta-thunberg-online-spat-deutsche-bahn-over-no-seat-train-223041548.html)

3983

antichrist
16-12-2019, 11:29 PM
https://www3.forbes.com/business/the-worlds-smartest-and-most-reputable-cities-vue/7/

look at Reykjavik supposed to aiming for zero emissions but it is full of cars and only about one and a half trees in the whole city??

Ian Murray
17-12-2019, 06:36 AM
https://www3.forbes.com/business/the-worlds-smartest-and-most-reputable-cities-vue/7/

look at Reykjavik supposed to aiming for zero emissions but it is full of cars and only about one and a half trees in the whole city??

Sale of petrol and diesel vehicles will be banned in Iceland from 2030. Currently electric and hybrid sales are booming while petrol and diesel are dropping, aided by the country's cheap renewable electricity and expensive fossil fuels.

antichrist
17-12-2019, 06:42 AM
Sale of petrol and diesel vehicles will be banned in Iceland from 2030. Currently electric and hybrid sales are booming while petrol and diesel are dropping, aided by the country's cheap renewable electricity and expensive fossil fuels.

I had no idea that countries were so advanced in being responsible. But when the cars are manufactured of courses there is pollution only it is probably in Asia.

as an aside they must be growing their pot indoors - I have never seen such a treeless place except the Sahara

Capablanca-Fan
17-12-2019, 09:22 AM
TIME's Commie Nag of the Year Can Go Pound Sand (https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2019/12/16/times-commie-nag-of-the-year-can-go-pound-sand-n2558014)
Kurt Schlichter, 16 Dec 2019

How stupid do they think people are? Very. And to judge by the judges at TIME, they’re often right. Maybe Greta never heard of Siberia or Cambodia, but we have. Screw that – if she wants to impose her masters’ Marxist fantasies on us, she’ll need to be packing something deadlier than “How dare you!”

Schoolchildren, young people, and adults all over the world will stand together, demanding that our leaders take action, not because we want them to, but because the science demands it," she said. "That action must be powerful and wide-ranging. After all, the climate crisis is not just about the environment. It is a crisis of human rights, of justice, and of political will. Colonial, racist, and patriarchal systems of oppression have created and fueled it. We need to dismantle them all. Our political leaders can no longer shirk their responsibilities."

Wait, “the science demands” that we “dismantle” all our “[c]olonial, racist, and patriarchal systems of oppression?” Now, what science exactly is that? Is it geology? Physics? Phrenology maybe?

Everyone who isn’t an idiot knows the climate change hoax was never about “science." That’s a hack lie they use to shut you up when you point out that the ice age, floods, and mass polar bear die-offs they are always promising never, ever seem to happen. It’s a deliberate scam that blends leftism, hysterical hyperbole, and outright fraud into a gooey pudding designed to fill the spiritual void in empty-souled western suckers while providing a tool for our global leftist establishment to steal more of our money and freedom.

Quick: name a climate change remedy that does not result in you being less free and/or paying more money. It’s actually remarkable. Every single thing that we absolutely must do right now no time to wait how dare you pause to think how dare you is something leftists always wanted but could never talk people into doing until the threat of weather vengeance started lurking around the corner.

You can’t name any. There aren’t any, because the weird climate cult is not about weather but about separating you from your liberty and loot. And, apparently, your life if you won’t obey.

Ian Murray
17-12-2019, 09:39 AM
TIME's Commie Nag of the Year Can Go Pound Sand (https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2019/12/16/times-commie-nag-of-the-year-can-go-pound-sand-n2558014)
Kurt Schlichter, 16 Dec 2019


Kurt Schlicter is the nutjob of the moment (https://theoutline.com/post/8100/kurt-schlicter-trump-kurds-syria?zd=1&zi=taywc2as)
TheOutline
14.10.19

President Donald Trump unleashed one of his most bewildering arguments ever last week, in the context of his impulsive decision to pull U.S. troops out of Northern Syria and abandon our former Kurdish allies: that the Kurds are undeserving of our help because... they failed to storm Normandy with us during World War II.

Trump lifted this nugget of stupidity from none other than the political commentator Kurt Schlichter, who has been a mainstay on the margins of the conservative press for almost two decades ...

Ian Murray
17-12-2019, 10:00 AM
I had no idea that countries were so advanced in being responsible. But when the cars are manufactured of courses there is pollution only it is probably in Asia.

As with the manufacture of anything, the 'well-to-wheels' costs, efficiencies and emissions determine the value of the end product. Sooner than we think, the whole process will become decarbonised.

Regardless of Morrison's ranting about 'the end of the weekend', even the Australian auto market can see which way the wind's blowing. By 2030 half our new car sales will be EVs.


as an aside they must be growing their pot indoors - I have never seen such a treeless place except the Sahara

Blame Erik the Red! Iceland was once heavily forested. Then the Vikings turned up 1000 years ago, looking for timber as well as rape and pillage.

antichrist
17-12-2019, 12:17 PM
As with the manufacture of anything, the 'well-to-wheels' costs, efficiencies and emissions determine the value of the end product. Sooner than we think, the whole process will become decarbonised.

Regardless of Morrison's ranting about 'the end of the weekend', even the Australian auto market can see which way the wind's blowing. By 2030 half our new car sales will be EVs.



Blame Erik the Red! Iceland was once heavily forested. Then the Vikings turned up 1000 years ago, looking for timber as well as rape and pillage.

I just checked up on this chap. The eventual reason for the settlement was due to overcrowding on the main island so not sufficient good land for farming for the poor.


I hope he did not try to "justify" the rape due to this on Wiki: While his wife took heartily to that (Christian) faith, even commissioning Greenland's first church, Erik greatly disliked it and stuck to his Norse gods—which, the sagas relate, led Thjodhild to withhold intercourse from her husband.[

antichrist
17-12-2019, 12:20 PM
Very interesting comment on studies of how engaging in nature helps humans in many psychological and medical ways, amazing things like maybe reducing crime rates, blood pressure levels etc etc.

A must for M. Baron to broaden his horizons.

Patrick Byrom
17-12-2019, 01:38 PM
Kurt Schlicter is the nutjob of the moment (https://theoutline.com/post/8100/kurt-schlicter-trump-kurds-syria?zd=1&zi=taywc2as) TheOutline 14.10.19
President Donald Trump unleashed one of his most bewildering arguments ever last week, in the context of his impulsive decision to pull U.S. troops out of Northern Syria and abandon our former Kurdish allies: that the Kurds are undeserving of our help because... they failed to storm Normandy with us during World War II. Trump lifted this nugget of stupidity from none other than the political commentator Kurt Schlichter, who has been a mainstay on the margins of the conservative press for almost two decades ...
I stopped reading after this nonsense: "Everyone who isn’t an idiot knows the climate change hoax was never about “science." That’s a hack lie they use to shut you up when you point out that the ice age, floods, and mass polar bear die-offs they are always promising never, ever seem to happen. ... "

Although the level of science denial that is required to write this nonsense, let alone take it seriously - as Capablanca-Fan presumably does - is impressive (in a scary way) :)

Patrick Byrom
17-12-2019, 04:53 PM
Capablanca-Fan think this is all a hoax (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2019/dec/17/nsw-fires-heatwave-temperature-australia-bushfires-wa-qld-fires-new-south-wales-gospers-mountain-sydney-heatwave-latest-updates-live-news?page=with:block-5df7fc898f08c3972263b8e4#block-5df7fc898f08c3972263b8e4):


Now that the dust and mercury have settled, we can confirm that various heat records were smashed on Monday across the country. Yesterday Perth posted a maximum of 40.9C. This made it three days in a row above 40C for the WA capital, the first time in December since records began. The average maximum temperature for Perth this month is an astonishing 36C, 7C above average. And it was also the fourth day over 40C day in December, setting another record. The previous record was two, and there are still 14 days in the month to go.

In Queensland the temperature in Brisbane hit 41.2C by midday. That equalled the previous record for the city’s hottest day, set in 1981. In Gatton in the Lockyer Valley, a record did fall. The top of 43.2C was the hottest December temperature recorded there, beating the previous record which was set on Saturday. Before that the record had stood since 2002.

Ian Murray
17-12-2019, 08:31 PM
Capablanca-Fan think this is all a hoax (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2019/dec/17/nsw-fires-heatwave-temperature-australia-bushfires-wa-qld-fires-new-south-wales-gospers-mountain-sydney-heatwave-latest-updates-live-news?page=with:block-5df7fc898f08c3972263b8e4#block-5df7fc898f08c3972263b8e4):


Now that the dust and mercury have settled, we can confirm that various heat records were smashed on Monday across the country. Yesterday Perth posted a maximum of 40.9C. This made it three days in a row above 40C for the WA capital, the first time in December since records began. The average maximum temperature for Perth this month is an astonishing 36C, 7C above average. And it was also the fourth day over 40C day in December, setting another record. The previous record was two, and there are still 14 days in the month to go.

In Queensland the temperature in Brisbane hit 41.2C by midday. That equalled the previous record for the city’s hottest day, set in 1981. In Gatton in the Lockyer Valley, a record did fall. The top of 43.2C was the hottest December temperature recorded there, beating the previous record which was set on Saturday. Before that the record had stood since 2002.

Australia heatwave: records forecast to be broken as temperatures surge past 40C (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/dec/17/australian-heatwave-records-forecast-to-be-broken-as-temperatures-surge-past-40c)
Tuesday

...Temperatures are forecast to peak in Victoria and South Australia on Friday, with Oodnadatta and Port Augusta to reach 48C, and peak in NSW on Saturday.

NSW has been placed under a total fire ban from midnight on Tuesday to midnight on Saturday as firefighters battle to contain more than 100 fires burning around the state, including the 400,000 hectare Gospers Mountain megafire in Wollemi national park in the Blue Mountains....

This year was tracking to be Australia’s second hottest on record, behind 2013, based on average monthly temperature data from January to November. It would have sailed into second place had December temperatures been average.

“It is going to provide pretty tough competition for Australia’s warmest year on record,” Taggart [senior forecaster with the Bureau of Meteorology in Sydney] said.

Three of the four hottest years on record in Australia have occurred in the past six years, and all have occurred in the past 15.

“Australia has warmed by about 1.4C since pre-industrial times and that warming trend is increasing,” Taggart said. “So as climate scientists have been saying for 20 years, we can expect more frequent heatwaves, and more severe heatwaves, and this is certainly an example of that.”...

MichaelBaron
18-12-2019, 01:18 PM
And on it goes ...

Greta Thunberg in Twitter spat with train company over photo (https://au.news.yahoo.com/greta-thunberg-online-spat-deutsche-bahn-over-no-seat-train-223041548.html)

3983

What a big deal....if my name is not Greta - who would care. I am surprised Greta's visits to restrooms are still not on the Twitter. Ok, So she had to travel the way many other passengers do :).

Ian Murray
18-12-2019, 02:21 PM
What a big deal....if my name is not Greta - who would care. I am surprised Greta's visits to restrooms are still not on the Twitter. Ok, So she had to travel the way many other passengers do :).

Right. All those idiot trolls making a Twitterstorm of it. A Swedish journo travelling with her confirms Greta's side of the story:

Journalist backs Greta Thunberg in Twitter spat with German rail (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/world/greta-thunberg-in-twitter-spat-with-german-rail/news-story/4c622dd71a820eccfe96c21aee3f8c74)

Ian Murray
18-12-2019, 03:36 PM
Unfair COP25
Australia plays wrecker on the world climate stage (https://www.themonthly.com.au/today/paddy-manning/2019/18/2019/1576644500/unfair-cop25)

A decade ago it was China that blocked momentum for real climate action at the UN’s Copenhagen summit – now Australia is the bad actor. Our emissions reduction minister, Rhodes scholar Angus Taylor, attended Madrid briefly to pick up a couple of Fossil of the Day awards, and left early as head of an Australian delegation whose contribution was described by one observer as “cynical, irresponsible and ultimately destructive”. Taylor returns to a nation suffering its worst ever drought, unprecedented bushfires and a heatwave that appears to have delivered Australia’s hottest day on record. Yet on his return, Taylor is spinning the same hollow lines, telling The Australian Financial Review that our “track record for finding additional abatement year-on-year has been extraordinary”. After courting global controversy, and without any policy to back him up, Taylor even suggests that Australia could meet its 2030 targets without using dodgy carry-over credits. “Complete rubbish,” says shadow climate and energy minister Mark Butler. ...

Ian Murray
18-12-2019, 07:49 PM
What a big deal....if my name is not Greta - who would care. I am surprised Greta's visits to restrooms are still not on the Twitter. Ok, So she had to travel the way many other passengers do :).

Greta on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/gretathunbergsweden/posts/1006439603057193?notif_id=1576659618877088&notif_t=page_highlights') this morning:

Media surprisingly seems to be more interested in a teenagers train travels than the fact that #COP25 failed.
But since conspiracy theories are running high, here is what happened.
Sometimes it’s lucky that you are traveling with journalists who can confirm the story...

Did Greta Thunberg travel on the floor or in first class? (https://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/did-greta-thunberg-travel-on-the-floor-or-in-first-class/?fbclid=IwAR1Ht9y_l-qI67oWzoikhPtXBgjjtzuF50Kp13n4We3zreN8wMfjoF9jRdU)
Dagens Nyheter

Did Greta Thunberg travel on the floor or was she sitting comfortably in first class? Climate activist Greta Thunberg’s tweet from a crowded German train became big news in Germany. Her altercation with the country’s national railway company has started a debate about the German train situation, and about who is telling the truth.

DN’s team were on the train – and have the answer. ...

MichaelBaron
19-12-2019, 01:34 AM
https://www.facebook.com/dustie.miller.16/videos/136907604290314/UzpfSTY2NDg4OTg1MDpWSzoyMjA0NzQ0MTczMTU1NjM4/

Ian Murray
19-12-2019, 07:03 AM
2,000 years of records show it’s getting hotter, faster (https://theconversation.com/2-000-years-of-records-show-its-getting-hotter-faster-120882?fbclid=IwAR3shWJEOOfhZAJx-6-UuyXsIo1V5vW0wA6tkUAKLVVpPpCDgdteSN1vaks)
Ben Henley
Research Fellow in Climate and Water Resources, University of Melbourne
The Conversation

New reconstructions of Earth’s temperature over the past 2,000 years, published today in Nature Geoscience, highlight the astonishing rate of the recent widespread warming of our planet.

We also now have a clearer picture of decade-to-decade temperature variations, and what drove those fluctuations before the industrial revolution took hold.

Contrary to previous theories that pre-industrial temperature changes in the last 2,000 years were due to variations in the Sun, our research found volcanoes were largely responsible. However, these effects are now dwarfed by modern, human-driven climate change. ...

Ian Murray
19-12-2019, 07:52 AM
BBC reporting on our bushfires


https://youtu.be/SFAk16n7RCg

MichaelBaron
22-12-2019, 09:08 PM
https://ipa.org.au/publications-ipa/bureau-cooling-the-past-to-declare-record-heat?fbclid=IwAR3yHIvBVEdRChEvsc4NJIMhdRQQREEQGR87 60GyVdiR2B0K3hIKyeDgxNk

Climate Science in action!

Patrick Byrom
22-12-2019, 09:20 PM
https://ipa.org.au/publications-ipa/bureau-cooling-the-past-to-declare-record-heat?fbclid=IwAR3yHIvBVEdRChEvsc4NJIMhdRQQREEQGR87 60GyVdiR2B0K3hIKyeDgxNk
Climate Science in action!You mean more nonsense from rejectors, which has already been refuted here several times :(

And with much of Australia experiencing temperatures over 40C, this must be one of the most pointless rejector arguments ever - I'm worried about the temperatures now, not 100 years ago!

Ian Murray
23-12-2019, 07:54 AM
https://ipa.org.au/publications-ipa/bureau-cooling-the-past-to-declare-record-heat?fbclid=IwAR3yHIvBVEdRChEvsc4NJIMhdRQQREEQGR87 60GyVdiR2B0K3hIKyeDgxNk

Climate Science in action!

The Bureau of Meteorology does not overwrite historical temperature data, but homogenises data (http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/data/acorn-sat/#tabs=Methods) using modern scientific techniques to produce consistent complementary data

Ian Murray
23-12-2019, 12:05 PM
The Morrison government finds a new way to look good on climate without actually doing anything

Australia changed its historical carbon emissions data: what happened? (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/23/australia-has-changed-its-historic-data-on-carbon-emissions-what-happened?)
The Guardian
23.12.19

Australia’s official greenhouse gas records have been adjusted such that emissions are now significantly higher than previously believed for the years when Labor was in power, and no longer rise each year since the Coalition repealed the carbon price.

The revisions, made clear in data published during the recent UN climate conference in Madrid, have allowed Scott Morrison to start claiming that emissions are now lower than when the Coalition was elected in 2013 and in any year when Labor was last in government.

That was not the case a year ago. As the graph below shows, changes to the data over the past year have increased emissions in the years of the Rudd and Gillard governments by between 3.5% and 6.7%. Emissions have been increased by smaller amounts or slightly reduced for the years since the Coalition regained power.

Most of the large revisions are due to a change in how the amount of carbon dioxide released from or absorbed by soil in grazing land is estimated. ...

The increase in emissions from grazing land soil carbon under Labor was most likely a result of the millennium drought, which broke in 2010 but took another couple of years for the effects to be felt. Analysts said if the government took credit for soil carbon it would also have to take responsibility for the future increases in emissions from the land due to the current drought and bushfires. ...

If emissions from what are known as land use, land-use change and forestry (LuluCF) are removed, Australia’s emissions have risen about 30% since 1990 and are nearly 20% higher than in 2000, contrary to the impression given when the government claims it is meeting its targets under UN accounting rules. ...

antichrist
23-12-2019, 10:45 PM
It is enough for us to even miss Malcolm Fraser- at least he did stand on principle occasionally even though we hated him at the time

MichaelBaron
24-12-2019, 02:11 PM
https://www.nature.com/immersive/d41586-019-03749-0/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1hVAo8ZAl1JQtnHV1a_WEdb8Hcld csn3zLx0Envqu5oNvQbi4HKMbjnCo
Looks like Greta is now ....a well-known climate scientist...may be having lots of rage and and a number of mental conditions can compensate for lack of scientific education.

Ian Murray
24-12-2019, 03:25 PM
https://www.nature.com/immersive/d41586-019-03749-0/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1hVAo8ZAl1JQtnHV1a_WEdb8Hcld csn3zLx0Envqu5oNvQbi4HKMbjnCo
Looks like Greta is now ....a well-known climate scientist...may be having lots of rage and and a number of mental conditions can compensate for lack of scientific education.

Astute as ever

Ian Murray
25-12-2019, 10:57 AM
Professor and educator Brian Cox on youth standing up and speaking up for humanity, political activism and why science is helpful for all careers (https://yp.scmp.com/news/features/article/113192/professor-and-educator-brian-cox-youth-standing-and-speaking-humanity?fbclid=IwAR02L7LOXkbs9ve8RnkA78O9i-py_DSJ6olME4dTn7wsngj51tHvq-O42qM)

... When asked what he thinks of governments, schools, and parents telling students to stay in class rather than participate in events like the #FridaysforFuture school strikes initiated by Swedish teen activist Greta Thunberg, his irritation is immediate and his tone curt.

These are young people, he says, “who [have] looked at the evidence, and [have] decided, correctly, this is one of the central challenges of our time, and now they’re being politically active, which is another facet of growing up and being a functioning adult in a functioning society.

“So you would be entirely wrong to think that you should discourage someone from drawing, in my view, the right conclusion from the data, and then deciding to be politically active, and to act on that conclusion.”

As for those of you who are speaking up and begging the adults responsible for this mess to act, Cox has nothing but support.

“This is exactly the way you should be operating,” he says.

“You should be … trying to influence society because, first of all, you want our civilisation to persist, and you want the world to be a better place – and so you’re doing exactly the right thing.”

antichrist
25-12-2019, 11:12 AM
As long as the walk out is during sport or Scripture classes and not important subjects. They are getting exercise during their demo so okay.

And they should be advised that if they want to be a lawyer not to get arrested. Tonks ago this held back Meredith Bergman from career. She was an excellent role model.

Ian Murray
25-12-2019, 03:10 PM
As long as the walk out is during sport or Scripture classes and not important subjects. They are getting exercise during their demo so okay.

And they should be advised that if they want to be a lawyer not to get arrested. Tonks ago this held back Meredith Bergman from career. She was an excellent role model.

Missing a few classes is unimportant - they are practising life skills on the streets.

MichaelBaron
26-12-2019, 06:09 PM
Missing a few classes is unimportant - they are practising life skills on the streets.

May I know missing how many classes is not important and when does it start becoming important :)?

The very first thing that kids should learn is the rules and the laws and the importance of following those. If adults can not pass this message on to the kids, who will?

Ian Murray
26-12-2019, 06:44 PM
May I know missing how many classes is not important and when does it start becoming important :)?

The very first thing that kids should learn is the rules and the laws and the importance of following those. If adults can not pass this message on to the kids, who will?

By abrogating their duty of care in conserving the earth and acting to meet the existential threat to civilisation posed by the climate crisis, adults have no authority to impose rules and laws on the generation they are condemning to reap the whirlwind.

MichaelBaron
26-12-2019, 08:44 PM
By abrogating their duty of care in conserving the earth and acting to meet the existential threat to civilisation posed by the climate crisis, adults have no authority to impose rules and laws on the generation they are condemning to reap the whirlwind.

If kids are underage, adults have full authority over them. Who decides what is right or wrong...if they share your values they are right? what if someone want to skip classes to protest mass killings of butterflies to make bread and butter sandwiches?

antichrist
26-12-2019, 09:07 PM
What about if they were protesting the killing of sharks and they are feeding the protesters shark fin soup?

Did you know that Buddhists wear ripple sole shoes so they won't kill ants.

Ian Murray
26-12-2019, 09:21 PM
If kids are underage, adults have full authority over them. Who decides what is right or wrong...if they share your values they are right?

Students are not deprived of their rights at school. All Australians have the right to freedom of expression and of assembly


what if someone want to skip classes to protest mass killings of butterflies to make bread and butter sandwiches?

The climate crisis is serious. You may not have noticed, but Australia has been on fire since the start of Spring.

MichaelBaron
26-12-2019, 09:34 PM
By the way I've heard a new expression today ''The Church of Global Warming''' :clap:

antichrist
26-12-2019, 10:20 PM
The climate crisis is serious. You may not have noticed, but Australia has been on fire since the start of Spring.
Bush fires that took out large tracts between Byron and Ballina about 4 or 5 years ago have shown surprising little regrowth and this is a high rainfall area? How many years will it take the Blue Mountains to recover.

Ian Murray
27-12-2019, 07:52 AM
Colombia's student strike leader is a 10yo (click image to run video clip)


https://www.facebook.com/ajplusenglish/videos/2450704498543543/

Patrick Byrom
27-12-2019, 04:06 PM
May I know missing how many classes is not important and when does it start becoming important :)? I've asked you before - do you think children missing a day of school to play in an interschool chess competition is important? Of course, you didn't answer :P

antichrist
27-12-2019, 05:22 PM
I've asked you before - do you think children missing a day of school to play in an interschool chess competition is important? Of course, you didn't answer :P

I got a day off for JFK's assassination - was that important?

Capablanca-Fan
28-12-2019, 09:17 AM
Climate Change Fears of Teen Activist Are Empirically Baseless (https://www.justfactsdaily.com/climate-change-fears-of-teen-activist-are-empirically-baseless/)
By James D. Agresti
17 Oct 2019

According to an article in Time magazine, Thunberg “cited more than 30 years of scientific evidence showing the consequences of a perpetually warming globe.” That is a misleading description of her words. In reality, she merely claimed this was so without presenting any scientific evidence to support it.

To the contrary, a wide array of environmental and human welfare indicators related to climate change have stayed level or improved for the past 30 years. This includes measurable outcomes of plants, forests, extinctions, agriculture, flooding, rainfall, hurricanes, and human health. This is true “crystal-clear” science, and it is at odds with Thunberg’s beliefs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU70facZc6A

antichrist
28-12-2019, 10:48 AM
I think that you "conservatives" say that she is too young or manipulated but as I may or not have not mentioned before that master JC was only twelve years when began preaching in the temple and he never had the reputation of being a young Bobby Fischer.

Patrick Byrom
28-12-2019, 11:31 AM
Climate Change Fears of Teen Activist Are Empirically Baseless (https://www.justfactsdaily.com/climate-change-fears-of-teen-activist-are-empirically-baseless/) By James D. Agresti 17 Oct 2019
... To the contrary, a wide array of environmental and human welfare indicators related to climate change have stayed level or improved for the past 30 years. This includes measurable outcomes of plants, forests, extinctions, agriculture, flooding, rainfall, hurricanes, and human health. This is true “crystal-clear” science, and it is at odds with Thunberg’s beliefs.Funny that he doesn't include temperatures in that list - of course that would completely destroy his argument :)

And you obviously haven't watched the news from Australia recently, have you? Climate scientists predicted years ago we would have significantly worse droughts and bushfires. So Greta was right!

Patrick Byrom
28-12-2019, 12:32 PM
How does a rise in coal use in 2018 contradict a fall in 2019? As the article I quoted said: "The world’s use of coal-fired electricity is on track for its biggest annual fall on record this year after more than four decades of near-uninterrupted growth that has stoked the global climate crisis." ... As the Guardian reports (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/27/price-of-australian-thermal-coal-slumps-to-lowest-in-more-than-a-decade): "Australian coal exporters have experienced the biggest annual drop in thermal coal prices in more than a decade during 2019, raising doubts about industry projections that demand will continue to grow. The spot price of thermal coal, which is burned to generate electricity, was US$66.20 ($95) last week, down more than a third from US$100.73 ($145) a year earlier."

Ian Murray
28-12-2019, 08:10 PM
Climate Change Fears of Teen Activist Are Empirically Baseless (https://www.justfactsdaily.com/climate-change-fears-of-teen-activist-are-empirically-baseless/)
By James D. Agresti
17 Oct 2019

... a wide array of environmental and human welfare indicators related to climate change have stayed level or improved for the past 30 years. This includes measurable outcomes of plants, forests, extinctions, agriculture, flooding, rainfall, hurricanes, and human health. ...

There's a lot in that article which deserves closer examination. I'll start withe section on Plant Life.

It opens with the statement: In 1989, William H. Mansfield III, the deputy executive director of the United Nations Environment Programme, wrote that “global warming may be the greatest challenge facing humankind,” and “any change of temperature, rainfall, and sea level of the magnitude now anticipated will be destructive to natural systems” like “plant” life.

The full quote adds balance:
There will be some benefits
from the warming. New sea lanes will
open in the Arctic, longer growing
seasons further north or south will
create new agricultural lands, and
warmer temperatures will make some of
today's colder regions more habitable.
But these benefits will be in individual
areas. The natural systems-both plant
and animal-will be less able than man
to cope and adapt. Any change of
temperature, rainfall, and sea level of
the magnitude now anticipated will be
destructive to natural systems and living
things and hence to man as well.

That viewpoint in 1989 was countered by two papers from 2003 and 2016, demonstrating increased global leaf cover, largely due to the CO2 fertilisation effect (https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-understanding-co2-fertilisation-and-climate-change), something well known to science and included in climate models.

CO2 fertilisation is a positive feedback, but cannot be viewed in isolation. Climate change has a lnger-term negative effect, such as reduced winter rains which are expected to increasingly impact the West Australian wheat crop (https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/climate-change/climate-change-and-broadacre-cropping). There are also adverse impacts on public health:

... "We know unequivocally that when you grow food at elevated CO2 levels in fields, it becomes less nutritious,” notes Samuel Myers, principal research scientist in environmental health at Harvard University. “[Food crops] lose significant amounts of iron and zinc—and grains [also] lose protein.” Myers and other researchers have found atmospheric CO2 levels predicted for mid-century—around 550 parts per million—could make food crops lose enough of those key nutrients to cause a protein deficiency in an estimated 150 million people and a zinc deficit in an additional 150 million to 200 million. (Both of those figures are in addition to the number of people who already have such a shortfall.) A total of 1.4 billion women of child-bearing age and young children who live in countries with a high prevalence of anemia would lose more than 3.8 percent of their dietary iron at such CO2 levels, according to Meyers.

Researchers do not yet know why higher atmospheric CO2 alters crops’ nutritional content. But, Myers says, “the bottom line is, we know that rising CO2 reduces the concentration of critical nutrients around the world,” adding that these kinds of nutritional deficiencies are already significant public health threats, and will only worsen as CO2 levels go up. “The problem with [the skeptics’] argument is that it’s as if you can cherry-pick the CO2 fertilization effect from the overall effect of adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere,” Myers says. But that is not how the world—or its climate—works....
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ask-the-experts-does-rising-co2-benefit-plants1/

MichaelBaron
28-12-2019, 08:43 PM
Colombia's student strike leader is a 10yo (click image to run video clip)


https://www.facebook.com/ajplusenglish/videos/2450704498543543/

This is turning into a greater farce day by day

Patrick Byrom
30-12-2019, 04:00 PM
Global heating denial is definitely looking farcical (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2019/dec/30/australia-victoria-bushfires-evacuated-east-gippsland-fires-news-live-latest-updates?page=with:block-5e0962ae8f085eda5c10f69a#block-5e0962ae8f085eda5c10f69a): "Every state has now hit 40C temperatures. And that includes Tasmania, with an astonishing maximum of 40.2C."

Kevin Bonham
30-12-2019, 04:08 PM
Global heating denial is definitely looking farcical (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2019/dec/30/australia-victoria-bushfires-evacuated-east-gippsland-fires-news-live-latest-updates?page=with:block-5e0962ae8f085eda5c10f69a#block-5e0962ae8f085eda5c10f69a): "Every state has now hit 40C temperatures. And that includes Tasmania, with an astonishing maximum of 40.2C."

You can make that 41.9, at Friendly Beaches on the east coast, just missing Tasmania's all time high of 42.2 (Scamander, Jan 30 2009). Hobart scored 40.8, its hottest December day ever, provisionally breaking a record that had stood since 1897.

MichaelBaron
30-12-2019, 04:34 PM
Global heating denial is definitely looking farcical (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2019/dec/30/australia-victoria-bushfires-evacuated-east-gippsland-fires-news-live-latest-updates?page=with:block-5e0962ae8f085eda5c10f69a#block-5e0962ae8f085eda5c10f69a): "Every state has now hit 40C temperatures. And that includes Tasmania, with an astonishing maximum of 40.2C."

I thought you were the one to claim we should look at ''climate'' not ''temperature'' - will be 17 at night :) ...so means global warming will be...finished :)

Patrick Byrom
30-12-2019, 05:50 PM
I thought you were the one to claim we should look at ''climate'' not ''temperature'' - will be 17 at night :) ...so means global warming will be...finished :)Sigh ... I didn't say anything about climate. But consistently extreme high temperatures imply that the average temperature is increasing (for obvious reasons). And global heating is derived from the laws of physics, not from temperature data, which just confirms it - as I've explained here many, many times already :(

Ian Murray
30-12-2019, 08:15 PM
Sigh ... I didn't say anything about climate. But consistently extreme high temperatures imply that the average temperature is increasing (for obvious reasons). And global heating is derived from the laws of physics, not from temperature data, which just confirms it - as I've explained here many, many times already :(

And global heating means more hot days and fewer cold days

MichaelBaron
31-12-2019, 09:08 AM
https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/depressed-greta-thunberg-had-stopped-talking-and-eating-before-climate-activism/news-story/3b99ed2513eb85c73dd3f719b535ba82?utm_content=Socia lFlow&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_source=News.com.au&utm_campaign=EditorialSF&fbclid=IwAR2BuYx_9veNqEN800Kj2aC9Iw05l-58syvpwBwMWoFKFCb-7HVk70Cr4q0

So saving the planet is part of her ''therapy''....and we are all contributors to the therapy....brilliant. It is probably some kind of game to her.

Ian Murray
31-12-2019, 10:22 AM
https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/depressed-greta-thunberg-had-stopped-talking-and-eating-before-climate-activism/news-story/3b99ed2513eb85c73dd3f719b535ba82?utm_content=Socia lFlow&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_source=News.com.au&utm_campaign=EditorialSF&fbclid=IwAR2BuYx_9veNqEN800Kj2aC9Iw05l-58syvpwBwMWoFKFCb-7HVk70Cr4q0

So saving the planet is part of her ''therapy''....and we are all contributors to the therapy....brilliant. It is probably some kind of game to her.

Another comment on an article you haven't read

MichaelBaron
31-12-2019, 11:09 AM
Another comment on an article you haven't read

“How dare you, how dare you?” Morgan said, mocking Greta, who has Asperger’s.

Isn't it brilliant....so she is a sick person we should not mock (sounds fair to me)...but then we are supposed to listen to it.

Patrick Byrom
31-12-2019, 01:42 PM
“How dare you, how dare you?” Morgan said, mocking Greta, who has Asperger’s. Isn't it brilliant....so she is a sick person we should not mock (sounds fair to me)...but then we are supposed to listen to it.She's not "sick"; at worst you could describe her as having a disability. You do understand that it's wrong to mock people for their disability - or their appearance or voice, for that matter?

And the suggestion that a person should be ignored because they're "sick" is just contemptible.

I find it fascinating that you refuse to even discuss the laws of physics with people who understand the science, but instead spend your time attacking a teenage girl.

Kevin Bonham
01-01-2020, 12:48 AM
This is turning into a greater farce day by day

Yeah it's farcical that there are still influential climate change deniers when even 10 year olds can make them look a bit silly.

When will these people stop, when they are losing the argument to kindergarten children?

Capablanca-Fan
01-01-2020, 02:35 AM
You can make that 41.9, at Friendly Beaches on the east coast, just missing Tasmania's all time high of 42.2 (Scamander, Jan 30 2009). Hobart scored 40.8, its hottest December day ever, provisionally breaking a record that had stood since 1897.

So December 1897 was hotter than all these recent decades with all this catastrophic anthropogenic global warming? Australia has reached over 50°C (https://www.willyweather.com.au/news/5485/50+degrees+that+is+hot.html):


For interest, Australia's highest official temperature is 50.7°C at Oodnadatta in South Australia on 2 January 1960 and the last 50 degree temperature in the country was 50.5°C at Mardie Station in Western Australia on 19 February 1998.

And OK, even if the current temps unlike the previous ones are a real trend that's anthropogenic, it doesn't follow that the anti-capitalist prescriptions of Greta Thunberg are warranted.

Capablanca-Fan
01-01-2020, 02:46 AM
She's not "sick"; at worst you could describe her as having a disability. You do understand that it's wrong to mock people for their disability - or their appearance or voice, for that matter?

And the suggestion that a person should be ignored because they're "sick" is just contemptible.

I find it fascinating that you refuse to even discuss the laws of physics with people who understand the science, but instead spend your time attacking a teenage girl.

What nonsense. Dr Baron is pointing out the way that Greta Thunberg is used by the watermelon greens as a sort of human shield against criticism: she is both so profound that we should heed her every word, but also just a kid so we can't argue back or else we are mean. He even said that it's fair not to mock a teen with Asperger's, but then don't make her the spokesperson either.

And she most definitely doesn't know what's she's talking about. The economic growth she condemns has made her generation the most fortunate ever to have existed. For example, far fewer people live in poverty today, as even the leftist Politifact admits (https://www.politifact.com/global-news/statements/2016/mar/23/gayle-smith/did-we-really-reduce-extreme-poverty-half-30-years/):


[Gayle Smith, USAID administrator] said, "Over the last 30 years, extreme poverty has been cut in half."

By World Bank figures, Smith actually understated the reduction. We’ve cut extreme poverty by 58 percent using the 2008 definition of extreme poverty, and 74.1 percent by the 2015 definition.

While we don’t quibble with Smith using that metric, our research shows that there are other ways of determining poverty, and those different ways show different declines. Moreover, defining poverty is not an exact science, experts say.

Because of those caveats, we rate Smith’s claim Mostly True.

Ian Murray
01-01-2020, 07:03 AM
What nonsense. Dr Baron is pointing out the way that Greta Thunberg is used by the watermelon greens as a sort of human shield against criticism: she is both so profound that we should heed her every word, but also just a kid so we can't argue back or else we are mean. He even said that it's fair not to mock a teen with Asperger's, but then don't make her the spokesperson either.

And she most definitely doesn't know what's she's talking about. The economic growth she condemns has made her generation the most fortunate ever to have existed. For example, far fewer people live in poverty today, as even the leftist Politifact admits (https://www.politifact.com/global-news/statements/2016/mar/23/gayle-smith/did-we-really-reduce-extreme-poverty-half-30-years/):


[Gayle Smith, USAID administrator] said, "Over the last 30 years, extreme poverty has been cut in half."

By World Bank figures, Smith actually understated the reduction. We’ve cut extreme poverty by 58 percent using the 2008 definition of extreme poverty, and 74.1 percent by the 2015 definition.

While we don’t quibble with Smith using that metric, our research shows that there are other ways of determining poverty, and those different ways show different declines. Moreover, defining poverty is not an exact science, experts say.

Because of those caveats, we rate Smith’s claim Mostly True.

She is not being manipulated by anybody. She has made her own decisions since childhood, informed by science.

While it is certainly true that world poverty has been slashed (thanks to the Millennium Development Goals (EECF-4106-E9B8) and subsequent Sustainable Development Goals (https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/?menu=1300) steered by your beloved kakistocracy, the United Nations), how does that make the climate crisis good? It is still the greatest challenge faced by humankind.

Kevin Bonham
01-01-2020, 11:38 AM
So December 1897 was hotter than all these recent decades with all this catastrophic anthropogenic global warming?

One day in one city in December 1897 was hotter than any days in that city in subsequent Decembers, until now.

Of course when an extreme like this was set is not necessarily a good measure of whether or not climate is changing, because extremes are outliers. There is a fair chance statistically that the highest temperature in a sustained period of historically average or even below average temperatures will exceed the highest temperature in a shorter period with a slightly warmer temperature.

But Hobart has had its hottest December day the month after tying its hottest November day, seven years after its hottest day ever ... this is a familiar story in many other places too, temperature records are falling all over the place, faster than they normally would, and a lot more of them are highs rather than lows.


And OK, even if the current temps unlike the previous ones are a real trend that's anthropogenic, it doesn't follow that the anti-capitalist prescriptions of Greta Thunberg are warranted.

It also doesn't follow that doing nothing is warranted, or that nations individually saying they will do nothing because their individual contribution is so small is warranted.

MichaelBaron
01-01-2020, 02:54 PM
She is not being manipulated by anybody. She has made her own decisions since childhood, informed by science.

While it is certainly true that world poverty has been slashed (thanks to the Millennium Development Goals (EECF-4106-E9B8) and subsequent Sustainable Development Goals (https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/?menu=1300) steered by your beloved kakistocracy, the United Nations), how does that make the climate crisis good? It is still the greatest challenge faced by humankind.

So can kids make ''informed decisions''. What if a kid makes an ''informed decision'' not to attend school from age of 11 onwards? Or an informed decision to eat sweets only? should they be allowed to?

Patrick Byrom
01-01-2020, 03:00 PM
What nonsense. Dr Baron is pointing out the way that Greta Thunberg is used by the watermelon greens as a sort of human shield against criticism: she is both so profound that we should heed her every word, but also just a kid so we can't argue back or else we are mean. He even said that it's fair not to mock a teen with Asperger's, but then don't make her the spokesperson either.Rubbish! He could have criticised her arguments without mocking her for her voice and appearance - which you've also done.


And she most definitely doesn't know what's she's talking about. The economic growth she condemns ... Where?

Ian Murray
01-01-2020, 05:00 PM
So can kids make ''informed decisions''. What if a kid makes an ''informed decision'' not to attend school from age of 11 onwards? Or an informed decision to eat sweets only? should they be allowed to?

It's rather unlikely that such decisions wold be informed by science

Patrick Byrom
01-01-2020, 08:35 PM
So can kids make ''informed decisions''. What if a kid makes an ''informed decision'' not to attend school from age of 11 onwards? Or an informed decision to eat sweets only? should they be allowed to?This is just silly. As children grow up, they can obviously make more decisions for themselves. At 10, for example, a child is already assumed to be legally responsible. At 16 (Greta's age), they can leave school or join the army.

Ian Murray
01-01-2020, 08:52 PM
This is just silly. As children grow up, they can obviously make more decisions for themselves. At 10, for example, a child is already assumed to be legally responsible. At 16 (Greta's age), they can leave school or join the army.

She turns 17 this Friday