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DanielBell
02-07-2007, 07:53 AM
Hey guys just signed up. Been reading for the past week (can't say I understand much, but I hope to change that).

I've been playing chess socially (and rarely) since I was a lot younger (22 now, Father taught me when I was probably 8 or 9), I'm not very good I'll admit, but I've decided to take it on as a hobby as I really enjoy the game, so I want to start learning more about it, openings, strategies, etc.

I bought the book 'Chess Players Bible' by James Eade and skimmed through it in bed as it's friggen cold in Sydney in the mornings at the moment! (I work night shift). I got this for about $10 and a little wooden chess set to learn some of the stuff from that book with (if I do the actions i'll learn it better, i'm more of a visual learner!).

I was just hoping I could could some quick information on some things to start me off:

1) Any good chess books for beginners to 'proper' chess play? I'm not LOOKING to play in tournaments, just to generally improve my game, but hey if I get good who knows!

2) Any particular openings/tactics/strategies you can recommend that would be good for a beginner to learn to start them off? I'd assume they will be in this little book I have.

I sometimes play on Yahoo!, my games are going a bit better than they did a couple of weeks ago, I used to lose almost every game but now I get a win here or there, but mainly draws!! I could probably post some games here with that nifty little viewer you have, and you can offer some critique and some insight into my mistakes/good moves, etc, is that a good idea?

Thanks,
Daniel

Southpaw Jim
02-07-2007, 08:42 AM
To start off, you should learn basic opening principles, ie control of the centre, development of your pieces etc. This should be combined with a general study of tactics - I recommend the following:

Learn Chess Tactics by Dr John Nunn; and/or
Winning Chess Tactics by Yasser Seirawan.

In terms of learning good general play, recommended is Logical Chess Move by Move by Irving Chernev. It's a book of I think about 30 games where Chernev annotates every move in detail, so you can understand the ideas, tactics and strategies behind each move. Also, I believe Nunn's Understanding Chess Move by Move is good, but I've never read it myself.

Practice your tactics religiously - either buy a problem book or some software that will facilitate this. I use CT Art 3.0 for the PC by Convekta, which IMO is the best tactics training software for anyone below 2000 rating.

Regular practice of tactics, combined with playing games regularly, should see a dramatic improvement in your game over a 12 month period. If you can, learn some basic endgame technique, if only the basic mates (Q+K vs K, R+K vs K, etc). After 6-12 months, consider absorbing some more advanced material, such as general strategic concepts - although these are less important at this stage, as most of your games will be decided on a tactical basis.

Good luck, and welcome! ;)

DanielBell
02-07-2007, 08:49 AM
To start off, you should learn basic opening principles, ie control of the centre, development of your pieces etc. This should be combined with a general study of tactics - I recommend the following:

Learn Chess Tactics by Dr John Nunn; and/or
Winning Chess Tactics by Yasser Seirawan.

In terms of learning good general play, recommended is Logical Chess Move by Move by Irving Chernev. It's a book of I think about 30 games where Chernev annotates every move in detail, so you can understand the ideas, tactics and strategies behind each move. Also, I believe Nunn's Understanding Chess Move by Move is good, but I've never read it myself.

Practice your tactics religiously - either buy a problem book or some software that will facilitate this. I use CT Art 3.0 for the PC by Convekta, which IMO is the best tactics training software for anyone below 2000 rating.

Regular practice of tactics, combined with playing games regularly, should see a dramatic improvement in your game over a 12 month period. If you can, learn some basic endgame technique, if only the basic mates (Q+K vs K, R+K vs K, etc). After 6-12 months, consider absorbing some more advanced material, such as general strategic concepts - although these are less important at this stage, as most of your games will be decided on a tactical basis.

Good luck, and welcome! ;)

Thanks for the quick reply!

I will look for these books at my local library (I live in Mt Druitt, near Rooty Hill), I might have to go to Penrith library or if it comes to it I will purchase them if they fit in my budget (immigrant uni student here, gotta pay cash for my study!!!! :(), but I will work something out.

Problem books? Where would I find these? I actually looked in the 'puzzle book' section of a newsagent for them once, but didn't see any, did I just not look hard enough?

Does that software work on Linux? I have gnuchess & xboard installed for Linux however it keeps kicking my ass! There could possibly be some training programs that are based on that engine? I will search.

Thanks for the welcome :) Maybe we can play one day.

Southpaw Jim
02-07-2007, 09:17 AM
I'm not aware of any commercial tactics (or any chess for that matter) software on linux, although it may run using WINE. As for problem books, try Australian Chess Enterprises (A.C.E.) (http://www.chessaustralia.com.au/index.cfm) in the books section. I have Sharpen Your Tactics!, which has problems at 4 levels of difficulty in random order, with the solutions at the back of the book - perfect for the bus or train if you commute.

You're unlikely to find good chess books in general bookshops as they can only really cater to the very basic level. Your best bet is an online store like A.C.E., Amazon.com and others.

BTW, I believe you have a very active club quite close to you (Rooty Hill) - you should try and get along if you can, as face to face games are the best type of experience, and you'll often find if you lose your opponent is happy to work through the game afterwards to show you what you did wrong.

I can be found occasionally late at night on the Free Internet Chess Server (http://wwww.freechess.org/) under the name 'JimAbbott' if you're looking for a game. If you're not already playing there, give it a go - you can use a software client rather than a Java interface (which I believe is the only interface for Yahoo!), lots of opponents any time of the day. Just register a username and password on the website, download a client (Eboard or Xboard for linux, not sure) and connect.

Watto
02-07-2007, 10:58 AM
BTW, I believe you have a very active club quite close to you (Rooty Hill) - you should try and get along if you can, as face to face games are the best type of experience, and you'll often find if you lose your opponent is happy to work through the game afterwards to show you what you did wrong.

links to the rooty hill thread and the club website: http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=4478 and http://www.rootyhillchess.org

DanielBell
03-07-2007, 07:33 AM
I had a quick look at the rooty hill chess club site and i'd be interested in coming down on Monday night to have a look! I'm only about 2 minutes drive from the RSL! I start work at 10:30pm so I need to be home by around 9:45pm, what time do you finish up? Of course i'd just leave early if I needed to. I'd probably be a bit intimidated at first, but maybe if there's another newbie there i'll have a game!

Won 2 games at work today, lost 2 though. This guy keeps beating me, yet the guy I beat has never lost to him!!! I usually end up dominating the mid game then making some stupid mistake and losing a few strong pieces, maybe I become over confident and don't think about what I'm doing properly? Today he opened a checkmate possibility for himself but didn't notice, I didn't notice either and was 1 move away from mating him when he found it, and got me.

Is there a way I can record the moves of a game from off my phone onto the computer in that chess notation? I can save the games on my phone and then step through them, I tried stepping through them using xboard (linux) and thought maybe I could save the moves but it doesn't seem to work! If I can find out I can post games from work here!

xboard has a 'training' option in the menu, so there is possibly a training module for it, I am going to look now!

DanielBell
03-07-2007, 07:40 AM
Penrith library has 'Logical chess: Move by move" on the shelf, i'm gonna go pick it up later :)

DanielBell
03-07-2007, 08:44 AM
Figured out this PGN recorder! Will post my winning game and my loss when my phone charges (Chessmaster makes my battery last about 8 hours!!!)

Intuition
03-07-2007, 09:32 AM
Hi,

For a good newb book check out the complete idiots gudie to chess...dont pay any attention to the name..it is very comprehensive for a newb book with sections on tactics/strategy and i think opening principles too.

You dont have to be 'good' to play in tournaments...the reason being that there is no such thing since 'good' means different things to different people. A casual player who gets beaten by a player rated 1100 with think that that player is good..where an FM would think differently :)

When reading logical chess..focus mainly on the ideas/writing and not the tactics as they might be a bit too advanced at this stage.

Some people will disagree, but I think its a good idea to play e4 openings as white.

I used to play at zone.com then I discoved fics about 2 years ago...the best place to play for free...when you first get there it seems like you need an IT degree just to talk but download the babas chess interface and it will be really easy to use

good luck :)

Southpaw Jim
03-07-2007, 05:57 PM
I think its a good idea to play e4 openings as white.

Agreed, head for open games with sharp tactical battles. Quieter, more positional openings do, IMHO, lead you to think that you're better than you are because you're not getting torn to shreds in 20 moves. But that's a very humble opinion :uhoh: :)

DanielBell
05-07-2007, 09:53 AM
Well according to Penrith library catalogue the 'Logical Chess' book is on the shelf however, I nor the librarian could find it! She looked up the record for it and it hasn't been borrowed in a long time so she said it's most likely lost! THE ONE BOOK I WENT IN THERE FOR!!!

I borrowed 'The Art of Mastering Chess' by Radio shack and also 'Unbeatable Chess Lessons for Juniors' by R. M. Snyder, which seems to be aimed at younger audience however I like the book, it's a book of annotated games, I get lost sometimes however trying to keep track of where pieces are in my head so I might start setting my board up and stepping through it to help me visualize what's happening better.

None of the other books you guys mentioned were in the library (Blacktown's collection is worse), so i'm thinking of driving up to that chess store that has its website posted in this thread and having a look see. Got about $30 I can spend!

Here's a game I played at work, I am black and workmate is white, he ususally plays the same style, brings out his knights, attempts to exchange queens early. This is one of my less elegant mates if that makes it any better! Haha.

1.Nc3 d5 2.Nf3 d4 3.Nxd4 Qxd4 4.e3 Qd8 5.d4 e5 6.dxe5 Be6 7.Qxd8+ Kxd8 8.f4 Bb4 9.Bd2 Nc6 10.O-O-O Nge7 11.Kb1 Kc8 12.e4 Bg4 13.Be2 Bxe2 14.Rde1 Nd4 15.a3 Ba5 16.f5 Rd8 17.Nxe2 Bxd2 18.Rd1 Be3 19.f6 gxf6 20.exf6 Nec6 21.g4 Ne5 22.g5 Ng4 23.e5 Nf2 24.g6 hxg6 25.Nxd4 Bxd4 26.Rdf1 Nxh1 27.Rxh1 Bc5 28.b4 Bb6 29.e6 fxe6 30.Rf1 Kd7 31.f7 c5 32.h4 cxb4 33.axb4 a5 34.b5 a4 35.Ka2 a3 36.Rf6 Bd4 37.Rxg6 Kd6 38.Rg4 e5 39.h5 Rf8 40.c3 Bxc3 41.Kb3 Be1 42.Rg6+ Ke7 43.Rg7 Rxf7 44.Rxf7+ Kxf7 45.h6 a2 46.h7 a1=Q 47.b6 Qb1+ 48.Kc4 Qb4+ 49.Kd5 Re8 50.h8=Q Rxh8 51.Kxe5 Rh5+

DanielBell
05-07-2007, 10:02 AM
Here's a game I lost. Stupid mistake not paying attention, I had a few chances to avoid this mate because my opponent didn't notice it himself!

I am white, he is black.

When he took my pawn with his Queen near the end of the game I could have moved my Knight down to block that particular mate. Can any of you see any mating opportunities that I had?

1.e4 d6 2.Nc3 g6 3.d4 b6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.e5 dxe5 6.dxe5 Ng4 7.h3 Nh6 8.Ng5 Qd7 9.Bb5 c6 10.Ba4 Qf5 11.h4 Ng4 12.Qf3 h6 13.Bxc6+ Nxc6 14.Qxc6+ Kd8 15.Qd5+ Kc7 16.Nb5+ Kb8 17.O-O e6 18.Qc6 Qxe5 19.Nxf7 Bd7 20.Bf4 Qxf4 21.Qxd7 Qh2+

Capablanca-Fan
05-07-2007, 10:06 AM
1.Nc3 d5 2.Nf3 d4 3.Nxd4 Qxd4 4.e3 Qd8 5.d4 e5 6.dxe5 Be6 7.Qxd8+ Kxd8 8.f4 Bb4 9.Bd2 Nc6 10.O-O-O Nge7 11.Kb1 Kc8 12.e4 Bg4 13.Be2 Bxe2 14.Rde1 Nd4 15.a3 Ba5 16.f5 Rd8 17.Nxe2 Bxd2 18.Rd1 Be3 19.f6 gxf6 20.exf6 Nec6 21.g4 Ne5 22.g5 Ng4 23.e5 Nf2 24.g6 hxg6 25.Nxd4 Bxd4 26.Rdf1 Nxh1 27.Rxh1 Bc5 28.b4 Bb6 29.e6 fxe6 30.Rf1 Kd7 31.f7 c5 32.h4 cxb4 33.axb4 a5 34.b5 a4 35.Ka2 a3 36.Rf6 Bd4 37.Rxg6 Kd6 38.Rg4 e5 39.h5 Rf8 40.c3 Bxc3 41.Kb3 Be1 42.Rg6+ Ke7 43.Rg7 Rxf7 44.Rxf7+ Kxf7 45.h6 a2 46.h7 a1=Q 47.b6 Qb1+ 48.Kc4 Qb4+ 49.Kd5 Re8 50.h8=Q Rxh8 51.Kxe5 Rh5+

Why on earth did White give up his N with 3.Nxd4?? The game is lost for White here.

5... e5 might have been a reasonable sacrifice if Black had swapped Qs to disorganize White. But why give a pawn and allow White to make the trade so Black loses castling rights? It was a long time before Black could coordinate the rooks with that K in the way.

Any reason not to play 47 ...Qc3 seems a lot quicker. ;)

Capablanca-Fan
05-07-2007, 10:19 AM
When he took my pawn with his Queen near the end of the game I could have moved my Knight down to block that particular mate. Can any of you see any mating opportunities that I had?

1.e4 d6 2.Nc3 g6 3.d4 b6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.e5 dxe5 6.dxe5 Ng4 7.h3 Nh6 8.Ng5 Qd7 9.Bb5 c6 10.Ba4 Qf5 11.h4 Ng4 12.Qf3 h6 13.Bxc6+ Nxc6 14.Qxc6+ Kd8 15.Qd5+ Kc7 16.Nb5+ Kb8 17.O-O e6 18.Qc6 Qxe5 19.Nxf7 Bd7 20.Bf4 Qxf4 21.Qxd7 Qh2+

5. e5 was too early. Black should have played 6...Qxd1, and on missing the chance, White should have played 7.Qxd8+. While loss of castling is less serious with the Qs off, it is still awkward.

White had a great opportunity with 15. Bf4! This blocks the attack on f2 and frees the R to check on d1. The immediate threat is 15. Nxf7+ (deflection of the Q) Qxf7 16. Rd1+ and mates next, and the R on a8 is en prise. The B is immune because the Q needs to guard d7 from the mate in the previous note. 14...Nxe5 is answered by 15. Nxf7+ Qxf7 (...Nxf7 16.Bc7#) 16. Bxe5 threatening Bc7#, Rd1+ and both Rs.

The mate on h2 was on for a few moves.

DanielBell
05-07-2007, 10:56 AM
Thanks for that feedback :)

I'll keep posting my games here in this thread. Sometimes we play on the board though (I seem to fare better on a board than on phone/handheld chess game), guess I just see better in 3d! haha.

Ged
05-07-2007, 12:22 PM
man you will be beating your friends in no time if you learn a few things

DanielBell
05-07-2007, 01:00 PM
man you will be beating your friends in no time if you learn a few things

That's the plan!

By the way guys I signed up on the FICS, my handle is 'DanielBell'.

Basil
05-07-2007, 02:51 PM
I signed up on the FICS, my handle is 'DanielBell'.
Aha! Undercover ;)

DanielBell
06-07-2007, 02:17 PM
Sick of Yahoo people. They always leave the room when they gonna lose, it's annoying. On Yahoo I am only rated like 1040, I was playing a guy who is rated 1300.. This is the game:

;Title: Yahoo! Chess Game
;White: georgerunescape
;Black: deadliftdan
;Date: Fri Jul 06 04:13:23 GMT 2007

1. e2-e4 e7-e5
2. d1-h5 f8-e7
3. h5xe5 d7-d6
4. e5xg7 e7-f6
5. g7-g3 g8-h6
6. d2-d3 b8-c6
7. c1xh6 b7-b6
8. c2-c3 c6-d4
9. c3xd4 c8-a6
10. e4-e5 d6xe5
11. d4xe5 d8-d4
12. e5xf6 d4xb2
13. g3-g7 o-o-o
14. g7-g4+ c8-b8
15. h6-g7 b2xa1
16. g7xh8 d8xh8
17. g4-g7 a1xb1+
18. e1-d2 b1xf1
19. g7xh8+ b8-b7
20. h8-f8 f1xd3+
21. d2-e1 d3-f1+
22. e1-d2 f1xg2
23. f8xf7 g2xh1
24. f7xh7 h1xg1
25. f6-f7 g1-g5+
26. d2-d1 g5-d5+
27. d1-c2 d5-c4+
28. c2-b2 c4-e2+
29. b2-c3 e2-f3+
30. c3-d4 a6-d3
31. h7xd3 f3xf7
32. d3-e4+ b7-c8
33. e4-g4+ f7-d7+
34. g4xd7+ c8xd7
35. h2-h4 c7-c5+
36. d4-c4 d7-c6
37. h4-h5 b6-b5+
38. c4-b3 c5-c4+
39. b3-b4 a7-a5+
40. b4xa5 c4-c3
41. a5-b4 c3-c2
42. h5-h6 c2-c1
43. h6-h7 c1-h6
44. a2-a4 b5xa4
45. b4xa4 h6xh7
46. a4-b3 h7-d3+
47. b3-b4 c6-d5

Yahoo's notation is crap, why wouldn't they use the notation that has obviousuly been agreed on? Anyway after this last move he offered me a draw.

I had already offered a draw twice as he had one square left to his Queening square so I was just checking his King, then I tried something which worked for me, ended up Queening my own pawn, so I had a queen and king, he had 3 pawns. Then he asks me for a draw. I declined the dialogue then he asked in chat, I said I offered one before, but I can mate you now, and he said "Not yet", turned the table to invite only, said "bye bye" and left!!!!!

I'll tell you one bloke who is not playing on yahoo anymore. Like the 10th time it's happened! I WANT MY VICTORY!!!!

Capablanca-Fan
06-07-2007, 03:52 PM
Sick of Yahoo people. They always leave the room when they gonna lose, it's annoying.
The better servers score an automatic loss for someone who disconnects, unless they show that it was a genuine disconnection beyond their control and make an effort to resume.

DanielBell
06-07-2007, 03:57 PM
Won a game last night at work too, after a few complete brain explosions I was able to win, I had actually resigned at some point in the game but my opponent insisted I play on, he wanted to see if he could mate me. I was tired last night, had been working the most boring job so my brain was completely turned off, if that is excuse enough for the pieces I lost for nothing!! :P Haha

Terrible game, even for me!!!

The move where he takes my Queen was probably my worst brain explosion, the idea in my head was that he couldn't take my rook as it would expose his King to my Queen, just didn't think.

After I check him with my pawn and he backs into that corner I knew I could get a checkmate, thankfully he set his sights on a new Queen, which gave me time to do it. This is like the 3rd time I've executed a checkmate move as soon as my opponent gets their new Queen, is it bad to feel good about that? Muahaha.

Most of the mistakes I made were due to failure to see the diagonals, I lost too many pieces because of this.

1.d3 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.g3 Nf6 4.Nh4 Nc6 5.Nc3 d5 6.Bg2 Bb4 7.f4 Ng4 8.fxe5 Ne3 9.Bxe3 Bxc3+ 10.bxc3 O-O 11.a4 Nxe5 12.Bc5 Re8 13.Rb1 Bg4 14.Rxb7 Rb8 15.Rxa7 d4 16.Bxd4 Nc6 17.Bxc6 Rxe2+ 18.Kf1 Rf2+ 19.Bxf2 Bxd1 20.Nf5 Bxc2 21.Bc5 Rb1+ 22.Kg2 g6 23.Ne7+ Kg7 24.Ra8 Rb8 25.Ra7 Qxd3 26.Bd4+ f6 27.Rf1 Qe2+ 28.Kg1 Qxe7 29.Rxf6 Rb1+ 30.Kg2 Be4+ 31.Rf3+ Kh6 32.Bf6 Qe6 33.Bxe4 Qxe4 34.Ra5 Qc2+ 35.Rf2 Rf1 36.Rxc2 Rxf6 37.Rf2 Kg7 38.c4 h5 39.Ra6 Rxa6 40.Ra2 g5 41.c5 h4 42.a5 Rh6 43.a6 h3+ 44.Kh1 Rc6 45.a7 Rxc5 46.a8=Q Rc1+

Capablanca-Fan
06-07-2007, 04:33 PM
Won a game last night at work too, after a few complete brain explosions I was able to win, I had actually resigned at some point in the game but my opponent insisted I play on, he wanted to see if he could mate me.

The game legally ended in a loss for you. FIDE Laws Article 5.1b:


The game is won by the player whose opponent declares he resigns. This immediately ends the game.

Resignation is not an offer. There is just no option to reject it. This was pointed out by the chief arbiter of an Asian Junior champs where I played, where one player resigned and his opponent tried to refuse because there was still plenty of play.


Most of the mistakes I made were due to failure to see the diagonals, I lost too many pieces because of this.

Maybe have some practice games with just bishops, so you can develop an automatic grasp of where they are pointing?

Capablanca-Fan
06-07-2007, 04:35 PM
Also, there is a section to post games http://chesschat.org/forumdisplay.php?f=41 which might be good for a new thread.

Ged
06-07-2007, 11:36 PM
if someone runs away from you in yahoo just invite someone else to resign for him, at least you used to be able to do that

DanielBell
07-07-2007, 06:17 AM
Went and saw my best mate last night. We played 6 games. Usually it's pretty even, last time I went there though I lost 3 in a row! However last night I won 5 and draw in the other. He would have won but he trapped my king, his idea was to move his Knight over (needed 2 moves) to check me but I moved one of my pawns forward one square and it was blocked by his, my next move it was stalemate.

I find i'm recognizing mating patterns, forks etc allot better now. Another thing i've noticed is i'm allot more aware of the board and where my pieces are, I mean they're right in front of me but I guess I used to have a tendency to see a threat on any of my pieces as a bad thing, and i'd always work to free them. A few times I countered his move with an equal threat rather than work on defending my piece, so even if he went on with his threat I could restore material balance. Is this good?

He opened 2 games by playing 1. a4 or 1. h4, I don't get why he does this I asked him about it he said he just likes it, haha. I always respond to it by freeing whichever bishop is able to attack his rook if he tries to bring it out. Good?

I usually start with 1. d4, followed by development of knights.. Often after development of knights opponent will threaten by knight with a bishop (is that called Roy Lopez?), how is the best way to defend against this? Usually when I threaten the bishop with a pawn they take my knight, and in return I take the offending bishop, is this a fair trade? I usually do more damage with my knights..

I usually open with

Taigastyle
07-07-2007, 06:53 AM
Ruy lopez is

e4 e5
nf3 nc6
bb5

Black plays alot of junk here but the usual is

3... a6
ba4 nf6
0-0

Theres alot more, alot of people are scared of takign the pawn, it is just that it is a bit harder to remember the line.

Capablanca-Fan
07-07-2007, 09:16 AM
A few times I countered his move with an equal threat rather than work on defending my piece, so even if he went on with his threat I could restore material balance. Is this good?

Sometimes, but it is often dangerous because the attacked piece becomes a desperado (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desperado_piece): that is, it is going to die anyway, so it inflicts maximum damage first. E.g. he attacks your Q, you attack his, but instead of a straight trade, his Q takes a protected R, you recapture, and only then he takes your Q, and ends up with an extra R.


He opened 2 games by playing 1. a4 or 1. h4, I don't get why he does this I asked him about it he said he just likes it, haha. I always respond to it by freeing whichever bishop is able to attack his rook if he tries to bring it out. Good?

Yes.


I usually start with 1. d4, followed by development of knights.

Not too fast: with d4, it is usually bad to block the c-pawn, because it is useful to attack the centre with c4, or defend your centre with c3.


Usually when I threaten the bishop with a pawn they take my knight, and in return I take the offending bishop, is this a fair trade? I usually do more damage with my knights.

Because at your stage, their tricky movement is harder to handle. But often the B is the stronger piece, esp. if you have both of them to cover squares of both colours.

DanielBell
11-07-2007, 04:17 PM
Well I have bids on 2 of the books suggested in earlier posts in this thread, one of which being 'Logical Chess' so that's cool. Wasn't able to make it into Rooty Hill last Monday because I had to start work at 6:30pm, i'm going to try for next week.

Havn't lost a game at work since my last post :D

Ged
12-07-2007, 06:33 PM
soon you will be looking down your nose at these pathetic creatures you call friends

DanielBell
12-07-2007, 09:08 PM
soon you will be looking down your nose at these pathetic creatures you call friends

I told one of the guys I play with quite a bit that I am getting a couple books off ebay (won 1 of the bids, 2nd one has a day or 2 to go)... After laughing and calling me a nerd he said I was a cheater!!! Haha. That's the guy I won 5 drew 1 with (stalemate).

Ged
12-07-2007, 09:34 PM
don't worry about the rapidly expanding size of your ego, going down to a chess club should very quickly deflate it :P

bergil
12-07-2007, 10:49 PM
don't worry about the rapidly expanding size of your ego, going down to a chess club should very quickly deflate it :PLMAO :clap:

Igor_Goldenberg
13-07-2007, 10:28 AM
don't worry about the rapidly expanding size of your ego, going down to a chess club should very quickly deflate it :P
Thanks for a good advice. Tried it last weekend, didn't help though.:D

DanielBell
13-07-2007, 05:05 PM
don't worry about the rapidly expanding size of your ego, going down to a chess club should very quickly deflate it :P

Hey! I'm getting better than my friends but you can only really get as good as your competition! I want to go down there and get my butt kicked a few times to help me get better!

Desmond
14-07-2007, 11:15 AM
1.d3 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.g3 Nf6 4.Nh4 Nc6 5.Nc3 d5 6.Bg2 Bb4 7.f4 Ng4 8.fxe5 Ne3 9.Bxe3 Bxc3+ 10.bxc3 O-O 11.a4 Nxe5 12.Bc5 Re8 13.Rb1 Bg4 14.Rxb7 Rb8 15.Rxa7 d4 16.Bxd4 Nc6 17.Bxc6 Rxe2+ 18.Kf1 Rf2+ 19.Bxf2 Bxd1 20.Nf5 Bxc2 21.Bc5 Rb1+ 22.Kg2 g6 23.Ne7+ Kg7 24.Ra8 Rb8 25.Ra7 Qxd3 26.Bd4+ f6 27.Rf1 Qe2+ 28.Kg1 Qxe7 29.Rxf6 Rb1+ 30.Kg2 Be4+ 31.Rf3+ Kh6 32.Bf6 Qe6 33.Bxe4 Qxe4 34.Ra5 Qc2+ 35.Rf2 Rf1 36.Rxc2 Rxf6 37.Rf2 Kg7 38.c4 h5 39.Ra6 Rxa6 40.Ra2 g5 41.c5 h4 42.a5 Rh6 43.a6 h3+ 44.Kh1 Rc6 45.a7 Rxc5 46.a8=Q Rc1+
Thoroughly entertaining game.

Just one piece of advice for you Daniel. Every time your opponent makes a move, try to work out the reason for that move. Where's he going and what's he doing. Do this, and you will avoid a lot of the piece losses you are currently experiencing.

DanielBell
14-07-2007, 11:33 AM
Thoroughly entertaining game.

Just one piece of advice for you Daniel. Every time your opponent makes a move, try to work out the reason for that move. Where's he going and what's he doing. Do this, and you will avoid a lot of the piece losses you are currently experiencing.

Ok will keep that in mind thanks!

DanielBell
16-07-2007, 09:14 PM
don't worry about the rapidly expanding size of your ego, going down to a chess club should very quickly deflate it :P

I went down to rooty hill tonight, got beaten twice by a 7 year old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I won the last game, just!

It was fun though, I enjoyed watching a couple games at the end too.

Were any of you there tonight? My girlfriend came along with me.

Intuition
19-07-2007, 10:10 AM
Thanks for a good advice. Tried it last weekend, didn't help though.:D

maybe a trip to russia might help :P

Intuition
19-07-2007, 10:14 AM
Thoroughly entertaining game.

Just one piece of advice for you Daniel. Every time your opponent makes a move, try to work out the reason for that move. Where's he going and what's he doing. Do this, and you will avoid a lot of the piece losses you are currently experiencing.

Great Advice...also playing slow games (60min+) will help you heaps

Watto
19-07-2007, 11:50 AM
Thoroughly entertaining game.

Just one piece of advice for you Daniel. Every time your opponent makes a move, try to work out the reason for that move. Where's he going and what's he doing. Do this, and you will avoid a lot of the piece losses you are currently experiencing.
Yes, that really helps I find. I gave that advice to a workmate who I’ve been beating easily every time we’ve played. I also said he should watch out for all checks, captures and forcing moves- he was just blundering in otherwise okay positions (a bit like me but worse). Suddenly there’s been a massive improvement in his game and the last game ended in a hard fought draw last night. Funny thing is he’s been playing chess socially for years, and social correspondence chess every day for the last two years, LOVES his chess, and often spends 20 minutes or more on a move, so he’s actually playing a lot but he just didn’t know what to concentrate on.

Which reminds me, I must go and work on my tactics and clock skills... !!

DanielBell
19-07-2007, 12:46 PM
Understanding Chess: Move by move arrived yesterday and Logical chess: move by move arrived today. I'm going to arrange some time to start getting through them now!!!

Capablanca-Fan
19-07-2007, 02:53 PM
Capablanca's Chess Fundamentals is excellent.

Ged
19-07-2007, 04:24 PM
Were any of you there tonight? My girlfriend came along with me.

pics? :P

lotz of lulz

Capablanca-Fan
19-07-2007, 04:34 PM
Does this name refer to The Wizard of Earthsea?

DanielBell
19-07-2007, 06:33 PM
I've stepped through the first 3 games in 'logical chess'. While the notation it uses is still bugging me, i'm understanding most of what he's getting at.

DanielBell
19-07-2007, 06:35 PM
Capablanca's Chess Fundamentals is excellent.

I'll get through the two I have then i'll try and find this one :)

Ged
19-07-2007, 06:51 PM
no it is what my family call me, I really liked Book 1 and 3.

Ged
19-07-2007, 06:58 PM
get stuck right into those books and only come up for air, I don't think anyone (worth there salt) has ever said anything bad about those books. Also grab a puzzle book on tactics if you haven't planned to already.

DanielBell
19-07-2007, 08:22 PM
get stuck right into those books and only come up for air, I don't think anyone (worth there salt) has ever said anything bad about those books. Also grab a puzzle book on tactics if you haven't planned to already.

I'm having trouble finding one, the one I was recommended in this thread I can't find. Any suggestions?

Ged
20-07-2007, 10:11 AM
there are so many, and you might find them in normal bookstores, in hobbies or games.
Just search Tactics online I don't think you can really go wrong.

First one I bought was 303 tactical puzzles by Lev Alburt, (not sure).

Or you could buy a book on tactics like Yasser Seirawan's Winning Chess Tactics (already recommended) which goes through all the basic themes. Tactics will help you way more in the short term than those other books.
Winning chess tactics is not a puzzle book.

Brian_Jones
20-07-2007, 11:20 AM
I'm having trouble finding one, the one I was recommended in this thread I can't find. Any suggestions?

Try www.chessaustralia.com.au

You may even find a few Rooty Hill members at this site!

DanielBell
24-07-2007, 07:23 AM
I went to Rooty Hill again, I played against an older guy this time don't know his name.. I lost all 3 games but one of them he said I could have drawn, I ended up forcing both of us to lose all our remaining pieces and go at it king & pawns vs king & pawns, I was 1 pawn up but his king was better placed and he queened before I could.. He explained to me it was a mistake because I had no free pawns and told me I could have played for a draw with the pieces I had, if I wasn't so focused on just trying to win. After those games I watched a couple of the lightening matches they were having, was interesting.

How do you recognize drawn positions? Or how do you play FOR a draw?

I'm enjoying going down to the club, I start uni next week so hopefully I can still make it down (my monday timetable is CRAP, plus starting work at 10:30pm sucks).. Might just have to end up being my coffee binge night.

Southpaw Jim
24-07-2007, 08:43 AM
How do you recognize drawn positions? Or how do you play FOR a draw?

I think the ability to recognise drawn positions comes with greater endgame knowledge/skill/experience. IMHO, not many club players would agree to a draw during the middlegame, unless they were good enough to recognise what kind of endgame was likely to emerge and knew that their opponent could play it equally well - instead, most club players would refuse an offered draw (unless they were losing!) and play on to see what the endgame offered.

I guess the other important thing is to be able to recognise each player's strengths and weaknesses on the board, such as good/bad/active minor pieces, strong/weak pawn structure, or colour complexes, who has possession of files for their rooks, diagonals for their bishops, or outposts for their knights. This then feeds into an assessment of who, if anyone, is winning, and what kind of endgame will emerge.

As for playing for a draw, well I guess you need to either:
- eliminate all mating material (ie reduce the board to - say - K+B vs K, K+N vs K, etc);
- recognise and capitalise on an opportunity to give perpetual check/threefold repetition;
- form a fortress, or otherwise lock up the board so neither player can successfully attack the other;
- obtain a stalemate position; or
- aim for (and achieve) a known drawn endgame (assuming you and your opponent know it's drawn).

Kevin Bonham
24-07-2007, 06:59 PM
I went to Rooty Hill again, I played against an older guy this time don't know his name.. I lost all 3 games but one of them he said I could have drawn, I ended up forcing both of us to lose all our remaining pieces and go at it king & pawns vs king & pawns, I was 1 pawn up but his king was better placed and he queened before I could.. He explained to me it was a mistake because I had no free pawns and told me I could have played for a draw with the pieces I had, if I wasn't so focused on just trying to win.

Always be careful when entering pure pawn endings. They are very often won for one side or another and there are a lot of tricks involved - if in doubt just don't go there until you're very confident it's safe; avoid exchanging off the last pieces into the pure pawn ending until you have got rid of whatever risk was present (a dangerous pawn, a strongly placed king that needs pushing back, or whatever). Sometimes the opponent cannot force such an exchange and it is soon clear that the game will be drawn.

Capablanca-Fan
24-07-2007, 07:29 PM
And a lot of inexperienced players don't realize that a pawn endgame a pawn down is often a much more certain loss than a middlegame a rook down.

DanielBell
23-08-2007, 05:15 PM
One of my latest games on FICS, I think I started well (captured Queen very early!), but near the end I got over confident and lost a lot of material that I don't think I needed to lose, 32. a7 was bloody stupid I didn't think about why he made the 30 ... bg6 move, I knew I wasn't going to queen that pawn I was just trying to divert his pieces away from my rooks, it had the opposite effect!!

Event: rated standard match
Site: Free Internet Chess Server
Date: 2007.08.23
Round: ?
White: DanielBell
Black: miagy
Result: 1-0
WhiteElo: 1260P
BlackElo: 1513
ECO: C50
TimeControl: 900

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Qf6 4. O-O Bc5 5. d3 d6 6. Be3 Nd4 7. c3 Bg4 8.
Qa4+ c6 9. cxd4 exd4 10. Bxd4 Bxd4 11. Nxd4 Qxd4 12. Bxf7+ Kxf7 13. Qxd4 Nf6
14. Qxd6 Rad8 15. Qa3 Rhf8 16. Nc3 Kg8 17. e5 Nh5 18. Ne4 Bf5 19. Ng3 Rxd3
20. Qxa7 Nxg3 21. hxg3 Rd2 22. Qxb7 h5 23. e6 Bxe6 24. Qxc6 Bf7 25. Rfd1 Rxb2
26. a4 Bb3 27. Rdb1 Rc2 28. Qb6 Bf7 29. a5 Kh7 30. Qe3 Bg6 31. a6 Rc7 32. a7
Bxb1 33. Rxb1 Ra8 34. Rb8 Raxa7 35. Qe8 Ra1+ 36. Kh2 Rac1 37. Qh8+ Kg6 38.
Rb6+ R1c6 39. Qe8+ Kh7 40. Rxc6 Rxc6 41. Qxc6 g5 {miagy resigns} 1-0

DanielBell
01-09-2007, 10:07 PM
I had no idea what I was doing in the opening, never had to play it before!

Do any of you find it hard to play properly in general over the net? On the computer screen I lose focus very easily, i've been trying to setup tournament conditions against chessmaster, as practice for my game this monday night, however after about 15 moves I just start making the first move I see, and get careless! Ah well.

Event: rated standard match
Site: Free Internet Chess Server
Date: 2007.09.01
Round: ?
White: Vampirion
Black: DanielBell
Result: 0-1
WhiteElo: 1297
BlackElo: 1245
ECO: A20
TimeControl: 900

1. c4 e5 2. e3 Nf6 3. b3 Be7 4. Bb2 Nc6 5. Bd3 O-O 6. Nc3 d5 7. Bc2 d4 8.
exd4 Nxd4 9. Nce2 Bg4 10. f3 Nxc2+ 11. Qxc2 Bh5 12. Bxe5 Re8 13. Nf4 Nd7 14.
Nxh5 Nxe5 15. Ne2 Nd3+ 16. Kf1 g6 17. Nhf4 Nxf4 18. Nxf4 Bd6 19. Nh3 Qh4 20.
c5 Be5 21. Rc1 c6 22. f4 Bxf4 23. Nxf4 Qxf4+ 24. Kg1 Re2 25. Rf1 Qd4+
{Vampirion resigns} 0-1

CameronD
01-09-2007, 10:16 PM
13. Nd7 is dangerous due to Bxg7 14. Kxg7 Nxh5+ and the king is forced to the centre of the board without gain of material. (Haven't gone through a computer, I'm probably wrong)

Dont know the English though.

Desmond
01-09-2007, 10:36 PM
what does time control 900 mean? Is that 900 seconds each? I'd suggest playing longer games if you want to learn something from them. 60m +10sec/move for example.

eclectic
01-09-2007, 11:26 PM
what does time control 900 mean? Is that 900 seconds each? I'd suggest playing longer games if you want to learn something from them. 60m +10sec/move for example.

900 = 15 minutes

Capablanca-Fan
02-09-2007, 07:14 AM
13. Nd7 is dangerous due to Bxg7 14. Kxg7 Nxh5+ and the king is forced to the centre of the board without gain of material. (Haven't gone through a computer, I'm probably wrong).
Yeah, sorry, because 14 Bxg7 is answered by ... Bf6 (disc. +) winning (first take the Bg7, while there is also an attack on the Ra1.

But 13... Bc5! instead of 13...Nd7 is much stronger, winning a piece. E.g. 14. Nd3 Bd4.

tanc
02-09-2007, 07:55 AM
Hello Daniel,

I myself am a beginner (well, I should say that I am a patzer) and only picked up chess about 2 years ago.

I can understand your predicament for seeing chess in 2D but it's extremely important to quickly learn how to translate 2D to 3D on the chess board. That's mainly because all chess literature is in books (or should I say chess tomes :whistle: ) and chess software tend to work better in 2D than 3D.

I am working through tactics at the moment and I feel that as a beginner player, I can see no harm than doing "tactics,tactics and more tactics". The reason being that if I do not learn tactics, I cannot find the winning move even if my position is winning.

I recommend the free PGN viewer/dbase SCID http://scid.sourceforge.net/ (this is a wonderful program because you can use it in conjunction with Crafty) to store/view your games.

I would also suggest to start collecting and annotating your own games and go through the games with a stronger player or/and with a free chess engine (like Crafty ftp://ftp.cis.uab.edu/pub/hyatt/executables or an earlier version of Zappa https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/acozzie2/www/zappa/#download). Linking Crafty to SCID is a snap. And Crafty's default configuration should work well for 99% of the time.

Other software I currently possess is Chess Position Trainer (free) to prepare an opening repertoire (I don't like getting creamed in the opening) at http://www.chesspositiontrainer.com/

I would humbly suggest working through Fred Reinfeld's 1001 Winning Chess Sacrifices and Combinations - I myself am working through them as well and I found them to be very helpful. You can download the PGN file here
http://www.chessville.com/downloads/downloads_tactical_exercises.htm
(there's no solution unfortunately) but you can easily grab a free chess engine like Crafty that will work out the solution if you're stuck.

Also, I regularly read free chess articles like ChessCafe http://www.chesscafe.com which is an excellent site. In particular, I find the letters/articles from Bruce Pandolfini's Q&A column to be highly encouraging as well to my chess development.

(notice how the word "Free" comes up a lot in my post?) :rolleyes:

If you need more time to think during a chess game, may I suggest a few websites:

http://www.gameknot.com (correspondence based chess website - it has a few quirks but works okay for most things, depending on what settings you have, you can make 1 move in 3/5/14 days etc.) and usually, it takes about a month to finish one game (and that's very quick in cc games).
http://www.redhotpawn.com

If you need to look up past games: http://www.chessgames.com is a good site to download games from (albeit one at a time).

DanielBell
02-09-2007, 08:10 AM
Awesome post tanc :) Downloading that opening software right now. They have a whole file dedicated to 1. e4 which is good as that's what I use at the moment.

I have my first tournament game tomorrow night against a player rated 1200 or so, if I use chess master what rating should I set it to to be near this guys skill level? I am playing white which is an advantage for me, I don't have to respond to something like the English, however he knows i'm a new player so he might have some weird response to 1. e4 ready for me!

Playing a tournament game has really upped my motivation though :)

I'll be posting the games here.

DanielBell
02-09-2007, 08:25 AM
That software is really cool man. That's me for today! I'll be neglecting my lawns for another week.

DanielBell
02-09-2007, 08:31 AM
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e6 6.g4 Nc6

This is one of the Sicilian lines this chess trainer software put to me, however I don't understand the 6. g4 move. Why is this strong? It doesn't seem to do anything but weaken the kingside?

Rincewind
02-09-2007, 12:17 PM
This is one of the Sicilian lines this chess trainer software put to me, however I don't understand the 6. g4 move. Why is this strong? It doesn't seem to do anything but weaken the kingside?

I'd say White is planning to castle queen-side and is getting the king-side pawn storm off to a flying start.

Aaron Guthrie
02-09-2007, 12:39 PM
I think the idea is to get going on the kingside as soon as possible. If White castles it will (counter examples welcomed!) be queenside, but the point of getting going so soon is that you don't need to worry about your own king safety for the moment. So I don't disagree with what Rincewind says, but I do wish to emphasise that the plan doesn't involve castling queenside as the next thing to do. Also the name of the opening is the Keres attack, in case you wish to search for more authoritative sources on it.

Rincewind
02-09-2007, 12:53 PM
So I don't disagree with what Rincewind says, but I do wish to emphasise that the plan doesn't involve castling queenside as the next thing to do.

I also wish to emphasis that isn't what I said either. I mentioned the castling queen-side plan to explain why weakening the king-side is not so much of an issue.

Aaron Guthrie
02-09-2007, 01:10 PM
I also wish to emphasis that isn't what I said either. I mentioned the castling queen-side plan to explain why weakening the king-side is not so much of an issue.And I didn't say you did. Your turn. :P

DanielBell
02-09-2007, 02:15 PM
I would have probably thought such an early advance of pawns on kingside would make it obvious to an opponent that castling queenside would be the only 'safe' place to do so and start working on making that hard for white?

I dunno how to do the database searching but is there a way to search for games that opened with this line.. Just so I can see what eventuates?

Aaron Guthrie
02-09-2007, 02:30 PM
I would have probably thought such an early advance of pawns on kingside would make it obvious to an opponent that castling queenside would be the only 'safe' place to do so and start working on making that hard for white?Yep, this is right. But at the same time they must make sure that they do not let the attack come through to their king. Also for the moment Black is shooting at air (hence my point about delaying castling). Incidentally, Black actually castles kingside sometimes in this line!

I dunno how to do the database searching but is there a way to search for games that opened with this line.. Just so I can see what eventuates?What database are you using?

Kevin Bonham
02-09-2007, 02:32 PM
I dunno how to do the database searching but is there a way to search for games that opened with this line.. Just so I can see what eventuates?

Go to http://www.chesslive.de/

Wait for the applet to load (takes a while).

Enter in the moves you want on the board. Since it's the 6.g4 move you want to understand, I suggest just entering the moves up to 6.g4. If you just click search after that it will bring up the earliest 2000 games it has, the third of which is the first time Keres played it.

To see some recent top-level games with 6.g4, try setting the rating filters ("Elo>=") to a high level (say 2500 each side). Or type the name of some strong player who you think might be up for this sort of line in the White field. (eg Grischuk has played it with white eight times).

It's worth knowing that some of the openings GMs play aren't really for club players. GMs have very detailed knowledge of cases where you can get away with doing things that don't follow ordinary principles. Often if you try following such lines without adequate preparation you'll mess it up and get walloped.

Rincewind
02-09-2007, 04:44 PM
And I didn't say you did. Your turn. :P

Then we agree.

Basil
02-09-2007, 04:46 PM
Can I be part of this? I'd hate for the confusion to stop ;)

http://frogstar.soylentgeek.com/wav/argue.wav

DanielBell
02-09-2007, 04:46 PM
Yep, this is right. But at the same time they must make sure that they do not let the attack come through to their king. Also for the moment Black is shooting at air (hence my point about delaying castling). Incidentally, Black actually castles kingside sometimes in this line!
What database are you using?

I actually remember watching some youtube annotation of a game where the guy explains his moves, and he did something similar, his opponent set up an attack on the kingside before he had castled, so he castled queenside and the opponents peices were all stack behind the pawn skeleton on the kingside which kind of pulled his attack's feet from under him!

DanielBell
02-09-2007, 04:47 PM
Go to http://www.chesslive.de/

Wait for the applet to load (takes a while).

Enter in the moves you want on the board. Since it's the 6.g4 move you want to understand, I suggest just entering the moves up to 6.g4. If you just click search after that it will bring up the earliest 2000 games it has, the third of which is the first time Keres played it.

To see some recent top-level games with 6.g4, try setting the rating filters ("Elo>=") to a high level (say 2500 each side). Or type the name of some strong player who you think might be up for this sort of line in the White field. (eg Grischuk has played it with white eight times).

It's worth knowing that some of the openings GMs play aren't really for club players. GMs have very detailed knowledge of cases where you can get away with doing things that don't follow ordinary principles. Often if you try following such lines without adequate preparation you'll mess it up and get walloped.

Having BBQ for gf's birthday now but i'll look at that site asap! :)

Aaron Guthrie
02-09-2007, 04:50 PM
Can I be part of this? I'd hate for the confusion to stop ;)You're a fusion.

Basil
02-09-2007, 04:53 PM
You're a fusion.
Damn. I could have added that to my last sig.

tanc
02-09-2007, 10:55 PM
Hello Daniel,

Errm... I normally don't use the chess database that came with Chess Position Trainer because I use it more for my personal training tool so I currently put in certain lines which are of more interest to me and which it can help me to remember lines.

I certainly can't afford to buy huge dbase software like Mega Database 2007 or Powerbook 2005 or whatever.... so I do a slight trick.

So I download a free humongous database from my fav chess dbase website http://www.icofy.net/

This database is not for the faint of heart.

The main base file is ICOfY Base 15
(11/01/2007 - 369,054 KB - 2,981,465 Games - 207,729 Players)

The updated file v1.0.4 is another 190,000 games since the start of this year till July.

That means you have access to over 3 million games.

Use the database switcher and load the humongous dbase you've just downloaded from ICOfy.

Now here's a quick way to search: setup the board position or just play through the moves until you hit the end of

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e6 6.g4 Nc6.

Now select Search->Current Board.

Tada! Your search list is now available under Game List. I tried this myself. There's quite a huge list too. Interesting.... Paul Keres once played this line against Bogoljubow and won in Salzburg 1943. Very few famous top GMs play this line. Maybe Kasimdzhanov v Kelly in Szeged,1994 and that's when Kasim was only rated 2360.

Overall, I try not to follow any of the default opening databases that came with CPT. I'd rather copy those from known chess tomes for lines I am interested in.

Here's a cheap way to get chess books. Borrow from your local library. I normally borrow them, pick certain lines with healthy doses of explanation on moves on opening lines and go through them. I feel it's important to understand the concepts behind certain chess openings rather than learning it by rote.

cheers

Kevin Bonham
02-09-2007, 11:24 PM
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e6 6.g4 Nc6.

[..] Very few famous top GMs play this line. Maybe Kasimdzhanov v Kelly in Szeged,1994 and that's when Kasim was only rated 2360.

That's because very few famous top GMs play 6...Nc6. Plenty of famous top GMs play 6.g4 but Black plays other replies.

Aaron Guthrie
02-09-2007, 11:32 PM
True, h6 is by far the most popular move.

edit-that didn't really make sense did it. True that Nc6 isn't played much, but no other move is played much either, other than h6.

DanielBell
04-09-2007, 03:03 PM
I lost my game!

Event: Rooty Hill Open 2007
Date: 2007.09.03
Round: 6
White: Daniel Bell u/r
Black: David Van Look P1250
Result: 0-1

1. e4 d5 2. d3 dxe4 3. d4 Nf6 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bc4 Bf5 6. Nge2 Bg4 7. h3 Bh5 8.
Bf4 Nbd7 9. Qd2 e6 10. Ng3 Bg6 11. O-O Bb4 12. Qe3 Nd5 13. Bxd5 cxd5 14. a3
Be7 15. Na4 O-O 16. c4 Qa5 17. Nc3 f5 18. b4 Qd8 19. cxd5 Nf6 20. dxe6 Nd5
21. Qc1 Rc8 22. Nge2 Bh5 23. Qd2 Bxe2 24. Nxe2 Nxf4 25. Nxf4 Bg5 26. h4
Bxf4 27. Qxf4 Qxd4 28. e7 Rfe8 29. Rad1 Qf6 30. Rfe1 Rxe7 31. f3 Qb6+ 32.
Kh2 Qc7 33. Qxc7 Rcxc7 34. fxe4 fxe4 35. Kg3 Rc3+ 36. Kf4 e3 37. Kf5 Rxa3
38. Kg5 e2 39. Rd2 Rae3 40. g4 R7e5+ 0-1

I don't know why I didn't take the pawn after 1...d5,my head was telling me he could then force a Queen exchange and disable my ability to castle. I should have done 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 where I can develop peices and chase his Queen at the same time. Who knows he may have left me with doubled pawns.

Instead of 35. Kg3 (don't ask why, I started making some wasteful moves after this) I should have done 35. Rd4 and that pawn would have been mine! It might have tipped the scales back slightly in my favor. There's probably a lot more I didn't see but I can't figure this chess base software out, heh.. When I figure it out I'll post a proper analysis.

tanc
05-09-2007, 10:34 AM
Hello Daniel,

I was looking at move 19. cxd5. IMHO I would have preferred the move 19. c5 instead, closing off the centre and cramping Black in. I would actually plan for the subsequent Knight move Nc3-b5 then dump my dark square Bishop on d6 to trade off Black's better placed dark squared bishop, and then moving my Knight to the outpost on d6 where it will be like a fish bone stuck in Black's throat followed by a Queenside storm with Rb1 etc. At the opportune time, I would also then release the pawn tension with f3.

But then I'm just a patzer so take my words with a pinch of salt. :rolleyes:

On Monday night, when I was at the Manly Chess club, I played a few 15 min games, two of which I wasn't too proud of as well, including getting a drawn endgame when I knew I should have lost (which doesn't make me feel any better). All this means that I must learn to count ahead better and improve my tactical and endgame vision.

The best thing about patzers like me.... the only way to go is up! :D

Kevin Bonham
05-09-2007, 08:56 PM
Instead of 35. Kg3 (don't ask why, I started making some wasteful moves after this) I should have done 35. Rd4 and that pawn would have been mine!

That's true but you will be hard-pressed to stop black getting a pawn while you are getting it, eg 35.Rd4 e3 36.Rd3 Re4 and either he gets your h-pawn or he can play the other R to e7 and defend. Still better than Kg3 though.

On move 30 you should have played Rd7. The idea is then that after the rook exchange on e7 you will get a pawn back on f5. If he playes ....g6 you have 31.Rc1 - if he exchanges on that square then when he takes on e7 with the rook you will have Qc8+ again recovering a pawn.

Fairly close game though, you had chances but need to try to analyse lines deeper in the ending. Often if you're in an ending and think "oh no, he's going to get my pawn" the question is then "well, what can I do that is useful while he is doing that?"

DanielBell
05-09-2007, 09:34 PM
Thanks both for the advice :)

I have another game next week, i'll try keep my pawns stronger and put more thought into the end game!

DanielBell
07-09-2007, 11:24 AM
Well I went down to Parra chess club, it has a bit more relaxed atmosphere than rooty hill, rooty hill seems so serious which I guess is good in a way but the guys at parra were joking with each other and it just seemed like a much more friendly event, however there is an open tournament going on at rooty hill at the moment so maybe that's why?

I won one of the 25 minute rapid games against DMarinas, we played a couple social games too where we won 1 a peice, in the game I lost against him I didn't even realise how much material I was down!!! I just surveyed the board for a second and was like "crap where'd all my peices go!?".. Our rapid game was good though, if we went back over it with a computer I bet he would have had a mate in there at one point!

I managed to weasel a draw out of Shane in a social game too !!

I'll probably go back to parramatta on days when I don't have uni, during the holidays and study weeks etc, because it's uni that makes attending there hard as my uni timetable on Thursday has me there from 11am til 3pm, then I have work from 10:30pm - 6:30am so I need to sleep somewhere!

Ah well all good fun!!!

tanc
07-09-2007, 07:38 PM
I'll probably go back to parramatta on days when I don't have uni, during the holidays and study weeks etc, because it's uni that makes attending there hard as my uni timetable on Thursday has me there from 11am til 3pm, then I have work from 10:30pm - 6:30am so I need to sleep somewhere!

Ah well all good fun!!!

Glad to hear you're enjoying yourself.

The chess club at Ryde Eastwood RSL (next to West Ryde train station) meets every Wed night from 7.30pm onwards. I think Les is trying to organise a friendly rapid competition (as there are no rated tournaments scheduled till the end of the year) next week onwards, so if you can make it, feel free to come in and give it a go! It's a very small chess club and the atmosphere is very relaxed.

The Manly chess club meets at Manly-Warringah RSL every Mon night while the North Sydney players (these folks take their chess seriously) meet at North Sydney RSL every Tues night and Norm Greenwood is usually there at both places. North Sydney have just started their Ford competition so you may be able to get a social game of chess with other non-participants and also get to watch high rated players in action (which is always good for your chess).

Both Manly and NSydney places are a little out of the way of CityRail so you may need to drive there unfortunately.

DanielBell
07-09-2007, 10:20 PM
Wedesnday night i'm back at work :(

It's a bit far out for me to attend on work nights, Rooty Hill is 2 minutes away from my house and I usually head to work from there, and Parramatta isn't far from my work, so they are both workable.

Shane was talking of a Fischer random tournament which sounds interesting I might have to go to Parra when they run that! Might have to chuck a sicky!

Ausknight
07-09-2007, 10:27 PM
Yeah mate, our 'real' game was a corker. A really close affair but right at the end I was too cramped and I forgot about the vital pin of my bishop when I was calculating the late exchange. I really should have pressured better when I got your king on the run early on but I was looking for a fork, and missed an obvious move when had me down a piece. Great game though and I definitely look forward to a rematch.

And yes, that night saw me win one social with you and one tournament game against an 1100 player - not bad for my first 25 min event ;)

The guys at Parra are definitely relaxed, but damn we have some fine players there - about 6 or so regulars who rate above 2000 so you know what I meanw when I say you're in a pool of sharks whilst learning to swim.

That said, I wouldn't trade it for anything as I strongly believe the stronger the competition, the quicker I'll learn - it's just being able to hold your nerve when you're so heavily outgunned that's tricky! But the atmosphere being relaxed helps, the guys there are really supportive.

I've only been playing for 6 weeks now, so I'm happy with my progress so far and I'm definitely looking forward to a rematch.

I'll have to make my way over to the Rooty Hill meet now as well!

DanielBell
07-09-2007, 10:32 PM
Yeah mate, our 'real' game was a corker. A really close affair but right at the end I was too cramped and I forgot about the vital pin of my bishop when I was calculating the late exchange. I really should have pressured better when I got your king on the run early on but I was looking for a fork, and missed an obvious move when had me down a piece. Great game though and I definitely look forward to a rematch.

And yes, that night saw me win one social with you and one tournament game against an 1100 player - not bad for my first 25 min event ;)

The guys at Parra are definitely relaxed, but damn we have some fine players there - about 6 or so regulars who rate above 2000 so you know what I meanw when I say you're in a pool of sharks whilst learning to swim.

That said, I wouldn't trade it for anything as I strongly believe the stronger the competition, the quicker I'll learn - it's just being able to hold your nerve when you're so heavily outgunned that's tricky! But the atmosphere being relaxed helps, the guys there are really supportive.

I've only been playing for 6 weeks now, so I'm happy with my progress so far and I'm definitely looking forward to a rematch.

I'll have to make my way over to the Rooty Hill meet now as well!

Yeah I noticed you and your opponent shaking hands very early, it was a very quick win!! Well I'll be at Rooty Hill this coming Monday all night because no work, if you want a rematch on my home ground? haha.. I have a tournament match first which is 90mins each but it shouldn't go for too long I can't analyze deep enough to need all that time yet!! Heh, last game I had went about an hour and a half so..

bergil
08-09-2007, 05:34 AM
Glad to hear you're enjoying yourself.

The chess club at Ryde Eastwood RSL (next to West Ryde train station) meets every Wed night from 7.30pm onwards. I think Les is trying to organise a friendly rapid competition (as there are no rated tournaments scheduled till the end of the year) next week onwards, so if you can make it, feel free to come in and give it a go! It's a very small chess club and the atmosphere is very relaxed.
You mean Ryde Eastwood Leagues Club and I agree its a nice place to play.

BTW Grade Match and Teams Challenge Presentation night is this Wednesday at Ryde Eastwood with a 5min Lightning on as well.

Wedesnday night i'm back at work :(

Shane was talking of a Fischer random tournament which sounds interesting I might have to go to Parra when they run that! Might have to chuck a sicky!This Thursday is the 10min Fischer random at Parramatta.

DanielBell
08-09-2007, 11:01 AM
This Thursday is the 10min Fischer random at Parramatta.

Hmm I might try to squeeze it in..

DanielBell
10-09-2007, 11:37 PM
I got my first point tonight!

I want to figure out how to analyse my games with the computer because I'm sure after about move 10 I could have done a lot more, can any of you see a win in there? I'm sure I did it the lonnnggggg way!

Event: Rooty Hill Open 2007
Date: 2007.09.10
Round: 7
White: Peter Watts 1139
Black: Daniel Bell u/r
Result: 0-1

1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. g3 Nc6 4. Bg2 d6 5. Nf3 d5 6. O-O Bc5 7. cxd5 Nxd5
8. Nxd5 Qxd5 9. Ne1 e4 10. Qc2 Bf5 11. Qc3 O-O 12. Nd3 Bd4 13. Nf4 Qe5 14.
Qb3 Na5 15. Qd1 Rad8 16. e3 Bc5 17. Rb1 Nc4 18. b3 Na3 19. Bb2 Qd6 20. Qc1
Nxb1 21. Qxb1 Qxd2 22. Qc1 Qxc1 23. Rxc1 b6 24. Be5 Bd6 25. Bxd6 cxd6 26.
Ne2 Bg4 27. Nd4 d5 28. Nc6 Ra8 29. Ne7+ Kh8 30. Nxd5 Rfd8 31. Bxe4 Be6 32.
Ne7 Rab8 33. Nc6 Rbc8 34. f4 Bd5 35. Bxd5 Rxd5 36. Rc2 Rc7 37. Kf2 Rd6 38.
Kf3 Rdxc6 39. Rd2 Rc8 40. Rd7 R6c7 41. Rd2 f5 42. h4 h5 43. Rd6 Kh7 44. Rd5
g6 45. a4 Kg7 46. Re5 Kf6 47. a5 Rc5 48. Rxc5 bxc5 49. Ke2 Rb8 50. Kd3
Rxb3+ 51. Kc4 Rxe3 52. Kxc5 Rxg3 53. Kc6 Rb3 0-1

Basil
11-09-2007, 12:07 AM
Congratulations Daniel. Truly pleased for you.

DanielBell
11-09-2007, 12:42 AM
Thanks!

2 more rounds to go, and I put my name down for the club championship! Get a couple of competitive games under my belt before I head to NZ for 4 weeks!

tanc
11-09-2007, 09:24 AM
Well done, Daniel. Congrats on your first of many many more points to come. :clap:

Interestingly enough, any particular reason why you played 16.... Bc5?

DanielBell
11-09-2007, 09:36 AM
Well done, Daniel. Congrats on your first of many many more points to come. :clap:

Interestingly enough, any particular reason why you played 16.... Bc5?

He attacked the bishop with his pawn, I wanted to keep it on that diagonal so I just moved it back one, he couldn't fork my Queen and bishop with his other pawn because the rook had that pawn pinned to his Queen..

I want to start annotating my games, I do it in my head because I canoften in the endgame not think much about the moves i'm making, for instance I wasted time with 36 .. Rc7 I should have just went straight ahead with 36 .. Rd6, I trie din this game not to make a move unless I could explain why I made it if I was asked!

Bxb2 may have been better eh? Win a pawn..

tanc
11-09-2007, 12:00 PM
He attacked the bishop with his pawn, I wanted to keep it on that diagonal so I just moved it back one, he couldn't fork my Queen and bishop with his other pawn because the rook had that pawn pinned to his Queen..

I want to start annotating my games, I do it in my head because I canoften in the endgame not think much about the moves i'm making, for instance I wasted time with 36 .. Rc7 I should have just went straight ahead with 36 .. Rd6, I trie din this game not to make a move unless I could explain why I made it if I was asked!

Bxb2 may have been better eh? Win a pawn..

It does more than win a pawn. I was looking at 16... Bxb2. White suffers if the Bishops are exchanged as 17. Bxb2 Qxb2 (threatening Rxe2 or Qxe2 and going into a winning endgame with 2 pawns up and a dangerous passed c-pawn).

d4 is refuted on account of exd3 (en passant). White's bishop on g2 must not be traded under any circumstances for the Black Knight in view of any Rb1 and Bxb7 combo just to win the b pawn because White is very vulnerable on the white squares around his king.

I don't see anything wrong with 36... Rc7. The pin on the Rook is deadly and White cannot make any move anyway. So don't be too hard on yourself.

I find it a good thing to enter your thoughts and emotions immediately after a game right next to the score sheet (or keep a spare sheet handy) and to go over the game with your opponent so you have an insight into his thought processes as well. The good thing about writing down your opponent's thoughts is crucial in chess because very often, your opponent's thoughts tend to highlight moves which you have not seen or thought about. And when you get home, just key in the moves into your fav chess program and let it analyse overnight.

When you wake up, you will have a nice freshly annotated game to go with your morning cuppa!

Just my 0.00002 cents.

Kevin Bonham
11-09-2007, 10:40 PM
It does more than win a pawn. I was looking at 16... Bxb2. White suffers if the Bishops are exchanged as 17. Bxb2 Qxb2 (threatening Rxe2 or Qxe2 and going into a winning endgame with 2 pawns up and a dangerous passed c-pawn).

Yes this is good.

Daniel - winning when exchange up is often tricky, especially if the opponent has counterplay. When you played 26...Bg4 you just used a move driving his knight where it wanted to go. Keep it simple and play ...Rc8 and try to get more pieces off the board instead.

Yes you should have played 36...Rd8, as after 36...Rc7 37.b4 he could save the knight, although you are still winning. However, he missed it.

Generally you played well and in particular did well to get through those very messy positions just out of the opening (with all the pins and attacks and so on) without a major error.

White had only one real chance for the advantage I can see: 8.Nxe5! would have won him a pawn, since if you recapture his knight, you drop yours on d5.

Trent Parker
12-09-2007, 04:08 AM
I'm going to have to get to Parramatta chess club sometime and meet the new members to parramatta and Chess Chat :D

Spiny Norman
12-09-2007, 08:52 AM
good on yer Daniel ... first of many more points to come I'm sure ... well done mate.

DanielBell
12-09-2007, 11:07 AM
Next week I play Micheal Jansen rated 1298.. Wish me luck!!!

DanielBell
18-09-2007, 01:35 PM
Got a draw last night! I'll upload the PGN later.. I told Micheal I had to go to work and put my hand out as to resign and he offered me the draw which was cool, I kinda thought he was winning but after loading them game on the chessmaster on my phone I can see that it was actually a draw (probably was for a while!)..

DanielBell
18-09-2007, 03:25 PM
Event: Rooty Hill Open 2007
Date: 2007.09.17
Round: 8
White: Daniel Bell u/r
Black: Micheal Jansen 1298
Result: -

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Be7 4. d4 exd4 5. Nxd4 Ne5 6. Bb3 d6 7. O-O Nf6
8. Nc3 O-O 9. Bg5 a6 10. Nf5 Bxf5 11. exf5 c6 12. Bxf6 Bxf6 13. Ne4 d5 14.
Ng3 Re8 15. Re1 Qc8 16. Qh5 Nd7 17. Rxe8+ Qxe8 18. h3 Bxb2 19. Rb1 Bc3 20.
Ne2 Nf6 21. Qg5 Ba5 22. Nf4 Bd8 23. Nh5 Nxh5 24. Qxh5 Bf6 25. c4 Qe4 26.
Rc1 g6 27. fxg6 hxg6 28. Qd1 dxc4 29. Rxc4 Qe8 30. g4 Rd8 31. Qf3 Kg7 32.
Re4 Qd7 33. Kg2 Re8 34. Rxe8 Qxe8 35. Qf4 Qd8 36. Kg3 Qd7 37. g5 Bd8 38.
Qh4 Qd3+ 39. Kg2 Qd2 40. Qh6+ Kg8 41. Qxg6+ Kh8 42. Qxf7 Qxg5+ 43. Kf3 Qf6+
44. Qxf6+ Bxf6 45. Kg4 Kg7 46. f4 b5 47. h4 c5 48. h5 c4 49. Bc2 Bb2 50.
Kg5 Bf6+ 51. Kf5


1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Be7 4. d4 exd4 5. Nxd4 Ne5 6. Bb3 d6 7. O-O Nf6
8. Nc3 O-O 9. Bg5 a6 10. Nf5 Bxf5 11. exf5 c6 12. Bxf6 Bxf6 13. Ne4 d5 14.
Ng3 Re8 15. Re1 Qc8 16. Qh5 Nd7 17. Rxe8+ Qxe8 18. h3 Bxb2 19. Rb1 Bc3 20.
Ne2 Nf6 21. Qg5 Ba5 22. Nf4 Bd8 23. Nh5 Nxh5 24. Qxh5 Bf6 25. c4 Qe4 26.
Rc1 g6 27. fxg6 hxg6 28. Qd1 dxc4 29. Rxc4 Qe8 30. g4 Rd8 31. Qf3 Kg7 32.
Re4 Qd7 33. Kg2 Re8 34. Rxe8 Qxe8 35. Qf4 Qd8 36. Kg3 Qd7 37. g5 Bd8 38.
Qh4 Qd3+ 39. Kg2 Qd2 40. Qh6+ Kg8 41. Qxg6+ Kh8 42. Qxf7 Qxg5+ 43. Kf3 Qf6+
44. Qxf6+ Bxf6 45. Kg4 Kg7 46. f4 b5 47. h4 c5 48. h5 c4 49. Bc2 Bb2 50.
Kg5 Bf6+ 51. Kf5

PGN viewer wasnt working for some reason...

DanielBell
18-09-2007, 03:30 PM
And another update I just organised with Shane to play in Parramattas club championship too :)

All this practice should get me ready for a good chess year next year after I return from NZ :)

Ausknight
18-09-2007, 08:10 PM
Nice mate!

I'm not there at Parra this week, but will be there next week.

Incidently, Shane, how much is it to play in the event?

Cheers

DanielBell
19-09-2007, 03:17 PM
Crap, I missed a pretty simple mate in that game.. I'll blame my gf when she gets home! HEH!

After move 41 ... Kh8 I should have moved my Queen to h5+, then after that Qxf7, then mate!

Ausknight
21-09-2007, 08:34 AM
Missing something obvious in hindsight is what us noobies do mate!

;)

Don't worry, I'll be back next week and you can give me a run too.

Incidently, how much was it to enter the comp?

bergil
21-09-2007, 09:30 AM
Missing something obvious in hindsight is what us noobies do mate!

;)

Don't worry, I'll be back next week and you can give me a run too.

Incidently, how much was it to enter the comp?$10 but for you? :hmm: :P

DanielBell
25-09-2007, 05:24 PM
Event: Rooty Hill Open 2007
Date: 2007.09.24
Round: 9
White: Frank Barisic 1726
Black: Daniel Bell u/r
Result: 1-0

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Bd6 4. Nc3 Nge7 5. d4 a6 6. Ba4 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 8.
O-O O-O 9. Bg5 Qe8 10. Nh4 exd4 11. Ne2 Na5 12. Nxd4 Nxb3 13. axb3 Bxe4 14.
Re1 Bd5 15. Ndf5 Be6 16. Qg4 Nxf5 17. Nxf5 g6 18. Nxd6 cxd6 19. Qg3 Qb8 20.
Be7 Re8 21. Bxd6 Qb6 22. Rad1 Bf5 23. Be7 Rac8 24. c3 Be6 25. Rd6 Qb8 26.
Bf6 Rc6 27. Rxc6 Qxg3 28. hxg3 dxc6 29. g4 Kf8 30. g5 Bxb3 31. Ra1 Ra8 32.
Ra3 Bd5 33. b3 c5 34. c4 bxc4 35. bxc4 Bxc4 36. Rc3 Be6 37. Rxc5 a5 38. Rc3
a4 39. Bd4 a3 40. Bc5+ Kg8 41. Bxa3 Rc8 42. Re3 Bf5 1-0

I messed up my score card but the game went on for another 20 moves, but I just can't remember white's next move.. Material stayed the same until about 2 moves from the end he won my bishop and I resigned it.

Capablanca-Fan
25-09-2007, 06:31 PM
Event: Rooty Hill Open 2007
Date: 2007.09.24
Round: 9
White: Frank Barisic 1726
Black: Daniel Bell u/r
Result: 1-0

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Bd6 (I advise against this one. It clogs up youre Q-side) 4. Nc3 Nge7 5. d4 a6 6. Ba4 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 8.
O-O (8. Ng5 {is hard to meet, because if} 8... 0-0 9. Qh5) 8... O-O 9. Bg5 Qe8 10. Nh4 exd4 11. Ne2 Na5 12. Nxd4 Nxb3 13. axb3 Bxe4 14.
Re1 Bd5 15. Ndf5 Be6 16. Qg4 Nxf5 17. Nxf5 g6 18. Nxd6 cxd6 19. Qg3 Qb8 20.
Be7 (20. Bf6 {should be automatic, eying the mates on the weak dark squares} 20... h5 21. Qg5 Kh7 22. Re4 {threatening Rh4 then Rxh5}) 20... Re8 21. Bxd6 Qb6 22. Rad1 Bf5 23. Be7 Rac8 24. c3 Be6 25. Rd6 Qb8 26.
Bf6 Rc6 27. Rxc6 Qxg3 28. hxg3 dxc6 29. g4 Kf8 30. g5 Bxb3 31. Ra1 Ra8 32.
Ra3 Bd5 33. b3 c5 34. c4 bxc4 35. bxc4 Bxc4 36. Rc3 Be6 37. Rxc5 a5 38. Rc3
a4 39. Bd4 a3 40. Bc5+ Kg8 41. Bxa3 Rc8 42. Re3 Bf5 (this position is dead drawn) 1-0

DanielBell
25-09-2007, 06:48 PM
I kinda feel uncomfortable asking a guy like him for a draw, what looks drawn or losing to me might look winning to him.. I wanted to ask for a draw many times in that game, I wasn't looking for a win at this point... Later on I keep offering an exchange of rooks as like my way of asking for a draw and he kept declining. I guess I just have to ask next time.. If they say no and think i'm a wanker I guess I just have to deal with it :D

So if i'm going to ask for a draw do I just wait until it's my turn?

eclectic
25-09-2007, 07:09 PM
I kinda feel uncomfortable asking a guy like him for a draw, what looks drawn or losing to me might look winning to him.. I wanted to ask for a draw many times in that game, I wasn't looking for a win at this point... Later on I keep offering an exchange of rooks as like my way of asking for a draw and he kept declining. I guess I just have to ask next time.. If they say no and think i'm a wanker I guess I just have to deal with it :D

So if i'm going to ask for a draw do I just wait until it's my turn?

you can only offer draws in your time

the etiquette would seem to be:

make a move
write it
write an = sign beside that move to indicate you are offering a draw
press your clock

CameronD
25-09-2007, 08:09 PM
I kinda feel uncomfortable asking a guy like him for a draw, what looks drawn or losing to me might look winning to him.. I wanted to ask for a draw many times in that game, I wasn't looking for a win at this point... Later on I keep offering an exchange of rooks as like my way of asking for a draw and he kept declining. I guess I just have to ask next time.. If they say no and think i'm a wanker I guess I just have to deal with it :D

So if i'm going to ask for a draw do I just wait until it's my turn?


Its going to be hard getting a result in a game if you feel inferior before the game starts. Stuff rating differences, stuff titles, just be determined to play your best and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks!!!

DanielBell
25-09-2007, 08:15 PM
Its going to be hard getting a result in a game if you feel inferior before the game starts. Stuff rating differences, stuff titles, just be determined to play your best and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks!!!

Noted!!

lithium
26-09-2007, 08:56 AM
Its going to be hard getting a result in a game if you feel inferior before the game starts. Stuff rating differences, stuff titles, just be determined to play your best and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks!!!

This is the attitude I'm now taking. Even a GM will have an off day at some point! ;)

Capablanca-Fan
26-09-2007, 03:38 PM
you can only offer draws in your time

the etiquette would seem to be:

make a move
write it
write an = sign beside that move to indicate you are offering a draw
press your clock
I think you should make your move, offer the draw, then press the clock. Then write the move with the equal sign. In the final position, it was perfectly reasonable to offer a draw, with opposite-coloured Bs and balanced pawns on one side.

It's only repeated draw offers that are a breach of etiquette and possibly the law against distraction.

eclectic
26-09-2007, 03:44 PM
I think you should make your move, offer the draw, then press the clock. Then write the move with the equal sign. In the final position, it was perfectly reasonable to offer a draw, with opposite-coloured Bs and balanced pawns on one side.

It's only repeated draw offers that are a breach of etiquette and possibly the law against distraction.

my reasoning here was that strictly speaking once you have pressed the clock you have foregone your right to offer the draw as it then your opponent's turn

Capablanca-Fan
26-09-2007, 07:51 PM
my reasoning here was that strictly speaking once you have pressed the clock you have foregone your right to offer the draw as it then your opponent's turn
You are right. That's why I recommended offering before pressing the clock, but recording the move and = on the opponent's time.

eclectic
26-09-2007, 08:14 PM
You are right. That's why I recommended offering before pressing the clock, but recording the move and = on the opponent's time.

i had a look at the laws and maybe i'm not quite right

it does say that in 9.1a that an offer can be made at anytime so long as 12.6 (disturbing opponent) is taken into account

my insistence on marking the = in ones own time made sense if that very marking constituted the official offer

9.1c is interesting in that it should the made to read

A (successful) claim of a draw under 9.2, 9.3 or 10.2 shall be considered to be THE SECURING of a draw.