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Bill Gletsos
03-03-2007, 12:03 AM
Moscow, 1 March 2007

Dear Chess Friends,

Following the decision of the Presidential Board at its meeting in Antalya, I was tasked to take a decision on the World Chess Championship cycle and the World Chess Cup.

After a thorough examination of the responses from the top Grandmasters and ACP and based on my consultations with national federations and various representatives of the chess public, I have resolved as follows:

1. In respect of the World Championship Cycle, to approve Proposal A. The proposal is very simple and seems to me to be easier to explain to sponsors, the mass media and chess lovers throughout the world. This proposal gives more prestige to the World Cup and its winner. Choosing this proposal, we are going to continue the long tradition of chess championship matches,, established in 1886. I am sure that everyone will like the clash of different styles, characters and approach to chess during these matches.

2. In respect of the World Chess Cup: 126 participants. First stage – 14 groups, 9 players each. Second stage: 14 group winners + 4 best of those who came second in the groups. At the second stage 18 players are divided into 2 groups, 9 players each. The group winners play a match of 4 games. The duration of the tournament is 26 days.

Taking into consideration the experience of other sport Federations and the opinions in favour of the tournament of 8 players, I am proposing hereby to organize “FIDE Masters` Cup” in November and /or December of each even year for the first 6 players according to the rating list (Double Round Robin system), with the minimum prize fund of 500,000 (five hundred thousand) USD.

Gens Una Sumus,

Kirsan Ilyumzhinov
President


Proposal A

The proposal is to terminate the World Championship Tournament and keep the World Cup as a Candidates tournament to find a challenger for a World Championship match. So in every odd year there will be only the World Cup (2007, 2009, 2011, etc.) and the respective winner will play every next year (2008, 2010, 2012, etc.) a match against the World Champion.

The chronological breakdown:

a1. 2008: The winner from WCCT 2007 in Mexico plays a World Championship match against the previous World Champion. If Kramnik does not win the WCCT 2007, then Kramnik can challenge the winner of Mexico in the first part of 2008. If Kramnik wins in Mexico, then the right to challenge goes to the previous World Champion, ie Topalov.

a2. 2009: The winner of the "a1" match plays a World Championship match against the winner of the 2007 World Cup which will be held in Khanty-Mansiysk.

a3. 2010: The World Champion (winner of "a2") plays a World Championship match against the winner of the 2009 World Cup,

a4. 2012: The World Champion (winner of "a3") plays a World Championship match against the winner of the 2011 World Cup,

a5. 2014: The World Champion (winner of "a4") plays a World Championship match against the winner of the 2013 World Cup,

and so on.

http://www.fide.com/news.asp?id=1277

Kevin Bonham
03-03-2007, 07:01 PM
I'm not mad-keen on a1 which is effectively a rematch clause for a defeated world champion to get a match against the successor without needing to do anything to earn it. I especially don't like that Topalov is awarded that ability in retrospect when it was not part of his rights at the time he lost his title. I would prefer that the winner of Mexico gets to rest on their laurels until an opponent has been selected by tournament.

On the whole doesn't look too appalling though, and it is good to see the colour imbalance issue has been fixed.

Garvinator
03-03-2007, 10:56 PM
On the whole doesn't look too appalling though, and it is good to see the colour imbalance issue has been fixed.Colour imbalance issue??

I agree that overall it isn't too appalling.

Does the 2700+ bribe title shot clause ;) still exist?

Kevin Bonham
03-03-2007, 11:00 PM
Colour imbalance issue??

In one of the previous versions they had single-round 8 player round-robins, meaning that players would arbitrarily get 4-3s or 3-4s. They have changed these to 9 players and killed that problem off.


Does the 2700+ bribe title shot clause ;) still exist?

That clause only existed for a limited time so I think unless FIDE puts in place new rules for it, then it is no longer valid.

I would laugh if Kramnik lost his title in Mexico thereby putting Topalov out in the cold again! :D

Garvinator
03-03-2007, 11:04 PM
In one of the previous versions they had single-round 8 player round-robins, meaning that players would arbitrarily get 4-3s or 3-4s. They have changed these to 9 players and killed that problem off. I just couldnt remember the issue. Still dont. Can you show previous reference material? I am not doubting that you are right, just that I cant remember it at all. San Luis and Mexico are both DRR, so not sure what you are talking about.


I would laugh if Kramnik lost his title in Mexico thereby putting Topalov out in the cold again! :DFide through circumstance keep trying to give Topalov a rematch clause. I do hope that circumstance keeps getting the way of his rematch :P

MichaelBaron
03-03-2007, 11:26 PM
Unfortunately the rule of the game that Fide plays keep changing! WC rules and regulations are changing at the rate of 5 time a year!
I guess we just have to wait and see what comes next!

Kevin Bonham
04-03-2007, 03:11 AM
I just couldnt remember the issue. Still dont. Can you show previous reference material? I am not doubting that you are right, just that I cant remember it at all. San Luis and Mexico are both DRR, so not sure what you are talking about.

http://chesschat.org/showthread.php?p=134127

Mangafranga's link in post 8 is especially relevant.

Bill Gletsos
13-03-2007, 08:12 PM
The meeting between the FIDE President and Kramnik reported on the FIDE website at http://www.fide.com/news.asp?id=1288 has an interesting last paragraph.


FIDE President meets the World Champion Vladimir Kramnik

Today, 12 March 2007, the FIDE President has met the World Champion Vladimir Kramnik in Paris, France. Mr. Kirsan Ilyumzhinov informed him on his decision in respect of the World Chess Championship cycle and decisions taken by the 1st quarter Presidential Board meeting held in Antalya, Turkey from 27 to 29 January 2007.

The World Champion has expressed his full support and mentioned that this decision is in absolute agreement with the historic tradition and modern requirements from the commercial and marketing point of view.

Vladimir Kramnik expressed his willingness to become more active in popularization of chess in mass media namely in Euro Sport Channel and FIDE programmes particularly, Chess in Schools programme.

He informed Mr. President on his future plans to participate in the forthcoming Melody Amber Blindfold and Rapid Tournament (Monte Carlo, Monaco), the Matches vs GM Peter Leko of Hungary in April and vs GM Levon Aronian of Armenia in May 2007.

Kirsan Ilyumzhinov and Vladimir Kramnik exchanged the opinions in respect of time control and concurred that it is necessary to keep the 7 hours control for top level events and some traditional chess tournaments. For all other tournaments a new time control of 1 hour plus 10 seconds from move 1 for each player will be set up. The World Champion supported the idea. This proposal will be considered by the next Presidential Board meeting.

Kevin Bonham
13-03-2007, 08:20 PM
G60/+10 becoming widespread in GM chess? Yikes!

pax
13-03-2007, 09:42 PM
Why not the obvious option for a1? Make the WCCT a qualifying tournament for the right to play Kramnik. Take Kramnik out, and insert Topalov in his place.

It's very strange that Topalov gets shunted from the entire cycle except if Kramnik wins the tournament..

Garvinator
13-03-2007, 09:46 PM
Why not the obvious option for a1? Make the WCCT a qualifying tournament for the right to play Kramnik. Take Kramnik out, and insert Topalov in his place.

It's very strange that Topalov gets shunted from the entire cycle except if Kramnik wins the tournament..
Contracts. Mexico contract is for the World Championship, not as a specified qualification tournament.

Kevin Bonham
13-03-2007, 09:47 PM
Why not the obvious option for a1? Make the WCCT a qualifying tournament for the right to play Kramnik. Take Kramnik out, and insert Topalov in his place.

It's very strange that Topalov gets shunted from the entire cycle except if Kramnik wins the tournament..

In fairness terms this solution has a lot to recommend it.

Unfortunately FIDE have probably long ago locked themselves into contracts re the status of Mexico as a World Championship decider that now cannot be altered.

Rhubarb
13-03-2007, 10:32 PM
The meeting between the FIDE President and Kramnik reported on the FIDE website at http://www.fide.com/news.asp?id=1288 has an interesting last paragraph.

Kirsan Ilyumzhinov and Vladimir Kramnik exchanged the opinions in respect of time control and concurred that it is necessary to keep the 7 hours control for top level events and some traditional chess tournaments. For all other tournaments a new time control of 1 hour plus 10 seconds from move 1 for each player will be set up. The World Champion supported the idea. This proposal will be considered by the next Presidential Board meeting.
Actually, Bill, I'd been expecting this for some time, anticipating, as I was, how FIDE would work out how to make even more money out of their increasingly ludicrous rating system. I take it 60m + 10s is to be the new minimum time control for FIDE-rated events, such that FIDE can charge several times as much for a service that is provided far more competently by the Australian Chess Federation for non-international players.

Garvinator
13-03-2007, 11:38 PM
Actually, Bill, I'd been expecting this for some time, anticipating, as I was, how FIDE would work out how to make even more money out of their increasingly ludicrous rating system. I take it 60m + 10s is to be the new minimum time control for FIDE-rated events, such that FIDE can charge several times as much for a service that is provided far more competently by the Australian Chess Federation for non-international players.
Could this mean that some 3 day weekenders could change their format to 9 rounds and provide fide rating opportunities from 10 player round robins?

Kevin Bonham
04-12-2008, 11:51 PM
*bump*

Chessbase (http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5051) carries a current report that indicates that the FIDE General Assembly has approved an eight-player qualifying tournament to replace the proposed match between the current GP and next World Cup knockouts as a way of determining the challenger for 2011.

The main driver for this appears to be that the GP cycle is in trouble with some events falling through for financial reasons. (An additional problem is that several serious world champs contenders failed to enter the GP, and a third is that a match between the GP winner and the World Cup winner will probably be quite a joke.)

Team Carlsen are not happy about this since their lad is off to a good start in the GP and probably even more likely to win it than he would be to win an eight-player qualifier.

Another fine FIDE mess caused by setting up a very complex cycle without ensuring its viability though ironically there is the prospect it will be a good thing since we could end up with a more serious qualifying process than the current one.

MichaelBaron
05-12-2008, 12:38 AM
I would not worry too much about it. The system will be changed many more times between now and 2011. All that Fide does - is changing the system - therefore it can be said - it is consistent in its inconsistencies.

Kevin Bonham
06-12-2008, 07:23 PM
The change FIDE have made is that instead of the GP winner meeting the World Cup winner, two players from each will go through to the eight-player supertournament with the others seeded on rating.

This system has theoretical merits because it provides an open path to qualification for anyone, while also giving super-GMs chances to make the eight-player tournament by either rating or tournament performance.

However its downside is that by providing a rating-based path for super-GMs it discourages them from pursuing the onerous GP schedule, which further weakens the GP, which was in trouble anyway.

Result: Carlsen withdraws from GP (http://blog.magnuschess.com/1228428457_magnus_withdraws_from.html).

I don't blame him, especially not with Mastrokoukos offering excuses that border (from below) on idiotic, such as:

As the Grand-Prix has just started this
year with two events completed out of six, no player has yet a clear advantage for first place and we feel that all players are benefited as now two or three places (instead of one) are giving[sic] qualification.

:rolleyes:

MichaelBaron
07-12-2008, 09:41 AM
I doubt Grand-Prix will last till the very end. Apparently more tournaments are pulling out.

Desmond
08-12-2008, 08:53 AM
The reader comments on Carlsen's blog almost unanimously praise the decision, including this one:

Dear Henrik, I have posted a lot in russian forums these days, so I'll try to make a brief summary for English speaking readers. I have mixed feelings about your decision. It's good to feel that chessplayers are no longer FIDE's poppets and that Kirsan's and Makro's personal behaviour should change as quickly as possible. But I still wonder what's Kirsan's fault in what happened with Grand Prix when it was Borg and Kok's project. And what is wrong with Russian winter for Norwegians. And why not to look for a more suitable compromise if your critisim is not directed at the change itself.
On the other hand FIDE need to take a real lesson about the transparecy and fairness and I'd like to thank you for giving it to them.
Alexei Shirov

MichaelBaron
08-12-2008, 09:43 AM
As always, chess-players are struggling for unity. Ivanchuk is being harassed by doping testing, Shirov denied his rights to compete for world championship (when Kamsky was not signing up for the match with Topalov), Carlsen and Aronian are highly dissatisfied about Grand-Prix. Moro clearly dislikes' Fide's ideas on Grand-Prix and World ch. Qualifying. And what do we see?

They are yet to join forces to defend their rights together. Shirov's proposal (see "Lets ban fide" article' at Chessbase) is radical but it could at least pose a threat for fide if not for the lack of unity among the players.

Ian Murray
08-12-2008, 04:20 PM
Hence the decline of Fideism - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fideism

Ivanchuk_Fan
08-12-2008, 06:49 PM
For more information about Aronian's dissatisfaction with the changes to the FIDE Grand Prix cycle, see Peter Doggers' article at the following site: Aronian is losing his motivation too (http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/aronian-is-losing-his-motivation-too/#more-5141).

eclectic
08-12-2008, 06:51 PM
you would think the decision would be that he has declared himself world chess champion for life :hand:

Kevin Bonham
08-12-2008, 08:54 PM
Shirov denied his rights to compete for world championship (when Kamsky was not signing up for the match with Topalov),

I'm not sure Topalov was signing up at that point either.

Kevin Bonham
14-12-2008, 12:11 AM
Adams has also withdrawn from the GP now.

Adamski
15-12-2008, 12:18 PM
Adams has also withdrawn from the GP now.
Michael pulling out seems the last straw. The Grand Prix is dead - long live the next GP?

Bill Gletsos
17-12-2008, 12:03 AM
For the latest see http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5087

Kevin Bonham
17-12-2008, 12:13 AM
I'm struggling with this at the end:




Which rights will the winner of the FIDE Grand prix series 2008-2009 have?

He will have a right to play an official match against the winner of the FIDE World Cup 2009. And the winner of this match will meet the winner of the match Viswanathan Anand-Topalov/Kamsky to further fight for the World Chess Champion crown. Therefore, it is obvious that the Grand Prix participants have good motivation to play. In this cycle of tournaments, more than 20 top-rated Grandmasters have participated, and in the World Cup 128 chess players from many countries have a chance to fight to the title.

According to your statement, Mr. President, the Grand Prix winner will compete with the World Champion. It means that the previous conditions, declared before these series, are still valid? What about the decision of the FIDE General Assembly in Dresden, which states that instead of the match winner of Grand Prix vs. winner of World Cup, a Candidates tournament with 8 players will be held? Does it mean we misunderstood something?

The FIDE General Assembly in Dresden opened a bid to organize the Candidates tournament started the discussions if this tournament should be organized or not. But the final decision on this issue will be made at the FIDE Presidential Board, which will take place in March next year. Now, we are collecting the bids.

Just to add, the World Champion Vishy Anand, the leading Grandmasters Levon Aronian and Magnus Carlsen are against the inclusion of the Candidates tournament in the cycle. Proposing to organize this tournament, we proceed from the fact that the losers of the World Chess Championship matches would still have an opportunity to fight further for the World crown, and will not be out of the boat at all. Besides, it is planned that the loser of the semifinal match Kamsky-Topalov, two finalists of the World Cup and four Grandmasters with the highest rating will be also included into the 8 players Candidates.

This tournament will gather the best chess players of the planet. This system is good from many sites and pursues many good objects: first of all, the tournament of the best chess players of the planet will attract the overall attention; it will also work for the popularization of chess in the world. Secondly, it will have a big sports meaning for the participants themselves and will be a great financial help for them: the prize fund of the tournament will be not less than one million US dollars. And third of all it is really profitable for FIDE: 20% of the money will be transferred to the World Chess Federation. And they will be used for development and popularization in the world.

What on earth is he saying here? He seems to be first saying they'll go back to the original system (if so does this include inviting the withdrawn players back in? Apparently not.) Then he talks about this Candidates cycle which is surely incompatible with it for the purposes of the current cycle at least, so what would it be a Candidates cycle for?

Kevin Bonham
20-01-2009, 11:28 PM
Scheduled 6th leg of GP, Karlovy Vary, cancelled:

http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5162


Bessel Kok and Pavel Matocha issue following statement

We have been informed that the NWR coal corporation which intended to support the Grand Prix in Karlovy Vary in December 2009 will not enter into sponsorship. This information and the reasons behind this decision were already communicated to Geoffrey Borg and FIDE and also to grandmaster David Navara, who was nominated by the Czech organisers to Grand Prix tournaments.

There are multiple reasons for this decision:

1. the withdrawal of top players from the GrandPrix tournaments (mainly withdrawal of Magnus Carlsen, the number one player of the GP and the most media attractive player is problem)
2. the confusion on the role of the winner of the Grand Prix (will be there the match between the winner of GP and the winner of World Cup for the right to play the world championship match? or there will be a candidates tournament?), it is unacceptable to change the rules during the game
3. the current financial crisis, which wiped out 80% of market value of NWR and sponsoring has been their first cut in operating expenditure.

In Prague on the 19th of January 2009

There are supposed to be three GPs this year but of these two have been cancelled and the third is scheduled for Elista which has already had one.

Kevin Bonham
13-03-2009, 12:44 AM
It is being widely reported that at the Presidential Board meeting in Istanbul this Monday, the PB has determined that there will be a candidates tournament or series of matches determining the challenger for the 2011 World Championship and comprising:

* Kamsky (as loser of the recent Challenge Match)
* Loser of Anand-Topalov
* Two players from Grand Prix series
* One player from World Cup
* Two highest rated not otherwise qualified
* One player invited by organisers

So Kamsky gets in because he won the previous World Cup. This continues FIDE's recent habit that once you win any of its world events, however divisive or dubious they are, you can expect to be recycled as a WC contender a number of times.

ER
13-03-2009, 11:22 AM
In Kamsky's case regardless the circumstances, I believe he deserves a place in the candidates on merit.
However, this system of selection is unsound and sooner or later will create more ground for criticism.
I, like Eclectic, am a staunch supporter of the old (zonal, q/finals, s/finals/ final) system.
I do not fancy my chances of this system to return though!
Times have changed, sponsors' preferences, players' financial interests, and little available time do not allow for long series of qualification events.
During Doeberl there will, no doubt, be discussions amongst GMs on this situations and I will be very interested to listen to what they have to say!
In conclusion, FIDE has a very long way to go in regards to find a solution that would satisfy all concerned!

T

Garvinator
14-05-2009, 12:38 AM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5424

World Championship cycle: FIDE-UEP negotiations fail


13.05.2009 In February the World Chess Federation announced that it had an offer from Universal Event Promotion GmbH to stage the 2009-2011 World Champion cycle to the tune of 3.5 to 4 million Euros. Now FIDE has announced that the parties had "not reached a final agreement." UEP blamed it on "different agendas relating to organisational sovereignty and commercial rights."

FIDE Press Release / 12-5-2009


FIDE announces that the negotiations with Universal Event Promotion (UEP), the original bidder for organising the final stages of the World Championship cycle 2009-2011 (Candidates Tournament and Final Match), did not reach a final agreement. FIDE is already in contact with other organisers and sponsors interested in holding these events.

Released by the FIDE Secretariat - 12 May 2009


Negotiations with FIDE failed

UEP news service 13th of May 2009


The negotiations over the organisation of the forthcoming World Championship cycle 2010-2011 (Candidates Tournament 2010 and World Chess Championship Match 2011) between Universal Event Promotion (UEP) and FIDE have failed.

Due to different agendas relating to organisational sovereignty and commercial rights, the parties failed to reach an agreement. Aggravating circumstances included FIDE's financial expectations beyond the original tender details.

UEP the only bidder for the tender believes that under such circumstances a permanent and successful marketing of the World Chess Championship will be questionable.

The negotiations ended by mutual agreement.

Media contact: georgios.souleidis@uep-worldchess.com

Kevin Bonham
29-01-2011, 02:34 AM
The current Tata Steel event is showing up that while the format might not be too bad (whatever Carlsen thinks otherwise) the timing is just glacially slow.

The Candidates Matches will be held in April. By this time:

* It will be almost a year and a half since Gelfand won the World Cup and qualified. Gelfand's rating has slid to #16.

* It will be two years since the last of the tournaments that qualified Grischuk after Carlsen withdrew. Grischuk is a tailender at Tata Steel and will probably drop out of the world top 10.

* It will be almost three and a half years since Kamsky won the previous World Cup and indirectly qualified despite then losing a match to Topalov. Kamsky is barely in the world top 20.

On recent results it would be much more interesting to have Nakamura in the mix than any of these.

ER
29-01-2011, 05:39 PM
The current Tata Steel event is showing up that while the format might not be too bad (whatever Carlsen thinks otherwise) the timing is just glacially slow.

The Candidates Matches will be held in April. By this time:

* It will be almost a year and a half since Gelfand won the World Cup and qualified. Gelfand's rating has slid to #16.

* It will be two years since the last of the tournaments that qualified Grischuk after Carlsen withdrew. Grischuk is a tailender at Tata Steel and will probably drop out of the world top 10.

* It will be almost three and a half years since Kamsky won the previous World Cup and indirectly qualified despite then losing a match to Topalov. Kamsky is barely in the world top 20.

On recent results it would be much more interesting to have Nakamura in the mix than any of these.

That's all very sad and alarming as for the future of the World Championship Matches!
To be honest, and as far as I am concerned, the magical ambience surrounding those encounters started fading after the Kasparov vs Karpov era and right after the Kasparov inspired break away.
To be even more honest I would rather go through and get more satisfaction by the 1972 Fischer vs Spasky, or even the Capablanca vs Alekhine matches, reading once again all the stories behind the scenes, than having to follow contemporary World Championship matches.
I sincerely hope Naka and Magnus are involved in a new movement which will put an end to FIDE's stagnated and unimaginative ways.