PDA

View Full Version : Polite declining of a draw offer



Igor_Goldenberg
29-10-2006, 03:44 PM
What is a polite way to decline a draw offer?
what is morally acceptable way of declining a draw offer?

qpawn
29-10-2006, 03:47 PM
Hiss through your teeth " if that is a draw, I will take a holiday in a Siberian forced labour camp".

:D

Kevin Bonham
29-10-2006, 04:22 PM
It's perfectly acceptable to just play a move.

"No thanks" is a reasonable way to decline if declining immediately and the offer is reasonable. If the offer is silly don't say anything, or just shake your head and indicate bemusement.

My favourite draw offer declination was when I was leading my an event I wanted to win outright by one point into the final round and the opponent, who had a good shot at second if he beat me or a likely =3rd if he drew, launched a massive attack that, while never winning, caused me a great amount of concern. After a while his attack started to fizz and it appeared that he was falling behind. Only at this point (when five or ten moves earlier I would have grabbed an offered draw but felt it was unethical to offer one) he said something like "I don't suppose you'd consider a draw?" Noticing that the player in second place had drawn giving me a 1.5 point lead, I responded "I don't need a draw" and went on to win the game.

Apparently my normal facial expression on being offered an unwanted draw is similar to that of someone being offered a plate of rotten fish!

WhiteElephant
29-10-2006, 04:35 PM
I usually say something like, 'I might play on and see what happens', or I just make a move without saying anything.

I have seen some amusing (and not so polite) ways of declining a draw during my days as a junior.

One memorable time was on board 1 in the Victorian U/20 Championships, when one of the players offered his opponent a draw, who looked up, gave him the finger, then played his move.

A few months later, in the Victorian Junior Open, a draw was offered and the opponent said nothing, stood up, and could be seen walking outside. The person who offered the draw sat for half an hour wondering what was going on, when his opponent returned with a Big Mac from McDonald's, sat down and started eating without saying anything, then made his move.

Kevin Bonham
29-10-2006, 04:52 PM
Those two stories are hilarious!

In the second case the opponent should be warned for leaving the playing venue while on the move. In the first the act of giving the finger is not a formal rejection, which can only be made orally or by touching a piece.

I remember a Tasmanian player making a written draw offer having played his move while his opponent was out of the room. He made his move, wrote " 1/2?" on a bit of paper, left the paper in the middle of the board, and walked off. His opponent returned to the board, looked at it for a while, then picked up the piece of paper, stopped the clock and reported the result to the arbiter as a draw.

Bill Gletsos
29-10-2006, 04:57 PM
You just have to love Fischers reply to Hort in 1970 at the Siegen Olympiad when after 44 moves Hort said "I dont know who is better Bobby, but I offer a draw".
Fischer in declining responded with " I dont know who is better either but I have an extra pawn" ;)
The game ended up drawn at move 60.

Desmond
29-10-2006, 04:57 PM
What is a polite way to decline a draw offer?
what is morally acceptable way of declining a draw offer?
I usually give no response.

Southpaw Jim
29-10-2006, 07:11 PM
"I don't suppose you'd consider a draw

:D

Losing words IMO :lol:

Igor_Goldenberg
29-10-2006, 09:06 PM
I do not offer a draw in an inferiour position (with one exception when I was in a hurry and completely misjudged the position. After the game I apologized for offering a draw because I did not see a move he played a move later).

However, I don't like when my opponent does not even acknowledge my draw offerring.

IMHO, if offered a draw in position without adantage by a player of comparable strengh, a player should decline verbally and gracefully.

Kevin Bonham
29-10-2006, 09:40 PM
Apologies to those who have heard this doubtless overtold story before.

One of my opponents didn't acknowledge one of my draw offers once. I outrated her by about 400 points and this was the position:

2r5/3k1pp1/p2bp1p1/1p6/2pP4/P3P2P/1P1KNPP1/2R5 b - - 0 23

I was Black and I didn't entirely care for this position. Since I had a one-point lead with one more to play and all the strong opponents out of the way, I felt like spending half a point of my lead to avoid any risk of losing this endgame. So I played ...Rb8, offered a draw and to my amazement my opponent played on immediately as if I had not spoken! I couldn't believe it, surely when you're offered a draw by someone rated that high above you who is known to have a good endgame you at least think about it?

The truth came out after the game (which I won, in part motivated by disgust at having my draw offer so rudely rejected - or so I thought!) - the flu I had at the time was so bad that the croak I made that passed for a draw offer was not heard by my opponent.

Also see draw etiquette thread (http://chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=1828) which I will probably merge this one with soon.

Southpaw Jim
29-10-2006, 09:48 PM
the flu I had at the time was so bad that the croak I made that passed for a draw offer was not heard by my opponent

:lol: I could be very mistaken, but was this about 3 months ago?

If your opponent was who I think it was, the above quote is rather ironic :)

Kevin Bonham
29-10-2006, 10:02 PM
:lol: I could be very mistaken, but was this about 3 months ago?

Nope, 1999. But you have the opponent right.

bergil
29-10-2006, 10:05 PM
What is a polite way to decline a draw offer?
what is morally acceptable way of declining a draw offer?No thanks or if they offer in a bad position I ask them would they accept the draw offer if the colours were reversed?

MichaelBaron
29-10-2006, 11:09 PM
I couldn't believe it, surely when you're offered a draw by someone rated that high above you who is known to have a good endgame you at least think about it?


"By someone who is known to have a good endgame technique" sounds like a "modest" way to describe one's own ability :D

Alan Shore
29-10-2006, 11:37 PM
Apologies to those who have heard this doubtless overtold story before.

One of my opponents didn't acknowledge one of my draw offers once. I outrated her by about 400 points and this was the position:

I was Black and I didn't entirely care for this position. Since I had a one-point lead with one more to play and all the strong opponents out of the way, I felt like spending half a point of my lead to avoid any risk of losing this endgame. So I played ...Rb8, offered a draw and to my amazement my opponent played on immediately as if I had not spoken! I couldn't believe it, surely when you're offered a draw by someone rated that high above you who is known to have a good endgame you at least think about it?

The truth came out after the game (which I won, in part motivated by disgust at having my draw offer so rudely rejected - or so I thought!) - the flu I had at the time was so bad that the croak I made that passed for a draw offer was not heard by my opponent.

Also see draw etiquette thread (http://chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=1828) which I will probably merge this one with soon.

Something similar - although I was on the other end of it. I was playing a tournament many years ago and FM Andrew Allen whispered something while I was playing him. I had to ask him for clarification and yes, it was a draw offer! It was still early and I liked my position but if an FM offers a draw it's hard to decline it, so I accepted.

pax
30-10-2006, 08:43 AM
"By someone who is known to have a good endgame technique" sounds like a "modest" way to describe one's own ability :D

The translation of this is usually "I'm a decent player, and my openings are really bad, therefore my endgame technique must be pretty good." :lol:

pull_my_finger
30-10-2006, 12:46 PM
when pestered for a draw I reply pull my finger!

Dozy
30-10-2006, 01:05 PM
R7/8/8/8/5p2/2p1b1p1/1k2K3/8 b - - 0 70

Yesterday my opponent (with the white pieces) offered a draw on move 69 in this position.

I declined (politely, Mr Finger, always politely) but had he offered the draw when I blundered away the exchange with no compensation on move 24 I'd have taken it.

I gotta confess he was very resourceful at finding stalemated positions for his king and there were several occasions after that he might have won his draw.

MichaelBaron
30-10-2006, 03:22 PM
R7/8/8/8/5p2/2p1b1p1/1k2K3/8 b - - 0 70

Yesterday my opponent (with the white pieces) offered a draw on move 69 in this position.

I declined (politely, Mr Finger, always politely) but had he offered the draw when I blundered away the exchange with no compensation on move 24 I'd have taken it.

I gotta confess he was very resourceful at finding stalemated positions for his king and there were several occasions after that he might have won his draw.

This position is certainly easily lost for white so offering a draw was not a very nice gesture by your opponent.

pax
30-10-2006, 03:52 PM
Yesterday my opponent (with the white pieces) offered a draw on move 69 in this position.

I declined (politely, Mr Finger, always politely) but had he offered the draw when I blundered away the exchange with no compensation on move 24 I'd have taken it.

I gotta confess he was very resourceful at finding stalemated positions for his king and there were several occasions after that he might have won his draw.

Is that board upside-down or something? Otherwise black plays g2, and white resigns on the spot!

Manny Ordonez
30-10-2006, 04:17 PM
Is that board upside-down or something? Otherwise black plays g2, and white resigns on the spot!
Playing for the stalemate. I have a great story about a time I did this and lived to tell the tale.

Dozy
30-10-2006, 05:15 PM
Is that board upside-down or something? Otherwise black plays g2, and white resigns on the spot!g2 was the go but I played c2 then, after the checks stopped g2. either was probably resignable but he kept trying for that stalemate.



Playing for the stalemate. I have a great story about a time I did this and lived to tell the tale.You have the floor, Manny. Tell us about it.

Kevin Bonham
30-10-2006, 10:13 PM
The translation of this is usually "I'm a decent player, and my openings are really bad, therefore my endgame technique must be pretty good." :lol:

Correct. :lol:

machomortensen
19-11-2011, 07:19 AM
I learned many, many years ago back in Denmark that the most polite thing to do is just playing on without any comments. Unfortunately they sometimes ask again because they thought I didn't hear it the first time...

If you really want to say something - eg. if your opponent offer you a draw in a hopeless position - say it when you are making your move and of course speak as slow as you can...

ER
19-11-2011, 08:40 AM
... Unfortunately they sometimes ask again because they thought I didn't hear it the first time...

:lol:

Paul Cavezza
19-11-2011, 10:38 AM
I usually see saying nothing as a psychological ploy. I remember being quite shocked the first time I offered a draw and my opponent didn't respond and just moved (so it worked!). A simple 'not just yet' or 'no thank you' is what I usually say

DogLover
19-11-2011, 10:59 PM
I think a clear,concise verbal reply is the polite way to decline a draw.ie "No draw". It shows strength and sets a good example for juniors.It also is a way of letting the opponent know they were heard.The first time my offer of a draw was seemingly ignored I was also shocked and angered.However when you are offered a draw and you think you are winning it can be very tempting to be rude or not say anything.However your assessment could be wrong or your opponent may genuinely believe it is a draw.I think that staying silent has more to do with ego and or bad habits than it does with common sense and respect for your opponent.

Kevin Bonham
19-11-2011, 11:15 PM
By the way a good way of reducing the chance your opponent will not notice your draw offer is to record it on your scoresheet with an "=" shortly after the verbal offer. That means that if the opponent does not hear the draw offer, or isn't sure they heard it, they can see it instead.

Max Illingworth
19-11-2011, 11:20 PM
By the way a good way of reducing the chance your opponent will not notice your draw offer is to record it on your scoresheet with an "=" shortly after the verbal offer. That means that if the opponent does not hear the draw offer, or isn't sure they heard it, they can see it instead.

This is what I do immediately after offering a draw.

I don't think it's rude to not say anything in response to a draw offer, although I suppose it is more polite to say 'I'd like to play on, thanks' after making your move and before pressing the clock.

Would it be possible to rename the thread to 'Polite declining of a draw offer'? Maybe I'm just pedantic but I find the typo slightly annoying. [done-KB]

Keong Ang
20-11-2011, 07:33 AM
This is what I do immediately after offering a draw.

I don't think it's rude to not say anything in response to a draw offer, although I suppose it is more polite to say 'I'd like to play on, thanks' after making your move and before pressing the clock.

Would it be possible to rename the thread to 'Polite declining of a draw offer'? Maybe I'm just pedantic but I find the typo slightly annoying. [done-KB]

Both players need to record "=" on the scoresheet on the move of the player offering the draw. eg. "Kb5=" on the player on white's move when the player with white pieces offers the draw.

There is no need to say anything in response to a draw offer.
A draw offer is declined when the player deliberately touches a piece.

Of course, what is polite or not depends on the circumstances. If both players do not speak the same language and gestures or body language are different, then it may be better to stick to the Laws.

I've had cases where a player making a draw offer extended his hand and the player with a winning position shook it! Apparently thinking it was a resignation. You can imagine that a dispute would arise from such a misunderstanding.

Regarding use of the "=" sign in scoresheets, you should only use it for recording draw offers. Some players use it to indicate what a pawn was promoted to, eg. "h8=Q" when simply writing "h8Q" is correct. In the former, it can mean a draw was offered, and a sneaky opponent could also write something like "h8Q=" on his scoresheet and swindle a draw. :eek:

ER
20-11-2011, 08:34 AM
I love Fludey's way of dealing with draw offers:

Draw? You have to play for the draw!

More recently in the Ballarat CC vs Box Hill CC 2 interclub match in Ballarat, Fludey improved even more, not only declining the draw politely offered by Pat Cook in a dead drawn position, but also giving some loud theoretical endgame analysis why he thought he had some chances to win!
All that to the amazement (read amusement) by other players and onlookers!

tanc
22-11-2011, 11:22 AM
"If your opponent offers a draw, take a moment and try to figure out why he thinks your position is better." - Nigel Short

Desmond
25-11-2011, 08:56 PM
...
Regarding use of the "=" sign in scoresheets, you should only use it for recording draw offers. Some players use it to indicate what a pawn was promoted to, eg. "h8=Q" when simply writing "h8Q" is correct. In the former, it can mean a draw was offered, and a sneaky opponent could also write something like "h8Q=" on his scoresheet and swindle a draw. :eek:
Errr so what is the argument here? That the opponent may reach over the table and write a fictitious draw offer on your scoresheet? If that is the fear, how does it make any difference what the symbol is? Do you think that an arbiter would uphold such a claim; would you?


Re using =Q for promotion notation, could you clarify whether is this in the rules or just your opinion?

As for me, I would notate a draw offer as follows: 41.Kf1 (=), and a promotion as: 41.h8=Q

Kevin Bonham
25-11-2011, 09:09 PM
What the rules say:


C.12

In the case of the promotion of a pawn, the actual pawn move is indicated, followed immediately by the first letter of the new piece. Examples: d8Q, f8N, b1B, g1R.

I really cannot see that a player writing "d8=Q" can cause confusion. If one player writes "d8Q=" and then makes a false claim that the opponent offered a draw, but the opponent has written "d8=Q", no competent arbiter will be fooled. If, on the other hand, a player writes "d8Q=" and the opponent is unscrupulous enough to claim a draw was offered when it wasn't, and gets away with it, then that's too bad for the player using the wrong notation in the first place.

Note that players who use "=" to indicate that in their view the position is equal (when a draw is not offered) are making notes and should be cautioned. (Ditto with players who write !, ? during the game.)

Desmond
25-11-2011, 09:18 PM
What the rules say:thanks

Santa
26-11-2011, 01:13 AM
The truth came out after the game (which I won, in part motivated by disgust at having my draw offer so rudely rejected - or so I thought!) - the flu I had at the time was so bad that the croak I made that passed for a draw offer was not heard by my opponent.
.

I once offered Bernhard a draw. He made a move.

I made a move.

He asked, "Did you say something?

So I explained that I offered a draw. He said he'd think about it, so he thought (I speculate) about how difficult the tournament was, the battle he'd had with me, so after a few moments,
"Ok then."

He didn't realise my move _after_ the offer was losing.

Bernhard is as deaf as a post, and I have resolved that in future, my draw offers to him with be written on a peice of paper or a card I will place under his nose.

Santa
26-11-2011, 01:30 AM
I think a clear,concise verbal reply is the polite way to decline a draw.ie "No draw". It shows strength and sets a good example for juniors.It also is a way of letting the opponent know they were heard.The first time my offer of a draw was seemingly ignored I was also shocked and angered.However when you are offered a draw and you think you are winning it can be very tempting to be rude or not say anything.However your assessment could be wrong or your opponent may genuinely believe it is a draw.I think that staying silent has more to do with ego and or bad habits than it does with common sense and respect for your opponent.

Certainly, I have offered a draw not realising I was lost.

Equally, I recall offering a draw, I think to Marcus Raine, when I had mate in two or three on the board. I was pleased with the result, until Simon Rutherford pointed out my error.

I had a good game against Nick Speck one time, and acheived a position I felt was drawn. I offered a draw, and he (quite rigthly) asked me to make a move. I moved a pawn, and gave him a supported passed pawn. I went over it latr at some length with Ross Thomas, while he felt Nick was better, he could not demonstrate a win.

Sheroff
05-12-2011, 06:27 AM
I remember playing a Junior once who was a whole rook down in an absolutely hopeless position, who audaciously asked me for a draw. I replied "Regrettably, I find I must reluctantly decline your kind offer."

He was summarily checkmated four moves later.


Cheers,

Kevin Casey

Rincewind
05-12-2011, 08:08 AM
I remember playing a Junior once who was a whole rook down in an absolutely hopeless position, who audaciously asked me for a draw. I replied "Regrettably, I find I must reluctantly decline your kind offer."

He was summarily checkmated four moves later.

Youth is wasted on the young. Often, unfortunately, so is sarcasm.

Jesper Norgaard
05-12-2011, 11:57 AM
I really cannot see that a player writing "d8=Q" can cause confusion. If one player writes "d8Q=" and then makes a false claim that the opponent offered a draw, but the opponent has written "d8=Q", no competent arbiter will be fooled. If, on the other hand, a player writes "d8Q=" and the opponent is unscrupulous enough to claim a draw was offered when it wasn't, and gets away with it, then that's too bad for the player using the wrong notation in the first place.

Another rule says:
C13 The offer of a draw shall be marked as (=).

The parenthesis is not to be interpreted as a delimiter when quoting. It's supposed to be part of what you write on the score sheet!

Boris has it right, 41.Kf1 (=) is correct

Sure d8Q= is wrong, but should not entail a draw offer. Only d8Q (=) or d8=Q (=) is the correct syntax including a draw offer.

I don't really think d8=Q is incorrect even if it is not explicitly part of the rules. There seems to be a general consensus that everything the computer does without blinking :P ... is OK for players. Except perhaps checking the opening library.

Notable example is that computers play the pawn to queen directly, while the rules say you must push the pawn to the eighth rank, and only on the queening square, replace it with a new queen, when the pawn is standing on that square. But arbiters usually condone the "computer way" of queening.