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View Full Version : ICC pulls the plug on Guests



Desmond
02-08-2006, 07:02 PM
From BlitzIn 2.5 Help


Welcome to ICC!

As of August 1, anonymous guests can no longer chat or play games on ICC, although you may still talk with the help staff for technical support or other assistance.

You can sign up for a free trial: HERE
BOOOOOO! :(

I quite enjoyed logging in and watching the IMs (GM games could not be observed by guests) play live. It seems that now only unrated games between patzers can be viewed.

I know of players who liked to play a few warm up games anonymously before playing their rated games.

Bad move by ICC. :(

MichaelBaron
03-08-2006, 01:49 AM
From BlitzIn 2.5 Help


BOOOOOO! :(

I quite enjoyed logging in and watching the IMs (GM games could not be observed by guests) play live. It seems that now only unrated games between patzers can be viewed.

I know of players who liked to play a few warm up games anonymously before playing their rated games.

Bad move by ICC. :(

Its probably bad for all the chess lovers...but i guess this move was commercially motivated.:hmm:

Brian_Jones
03-08-2006, 08:06 AM
Bad move by ICC. :(

Well Boris now that you are a CAQ Councillor, you should set an example and support the principle of fee for service.

Can you really expect to get your chess for free?

Or are you just a typical mean chess player?

Desmond
03-08-2006, 08:21 AM
Well Boris now that you are a CAQ Councillor, you should set an example and support the principle of fee for service.

Can you really expect to get your chess for free?

Or are you just a typical mean chess player?
I have had 3 or 4 years of subscription to the ICC. I have not renewed it, preferring to put my money into chessgames.com.

There is little doubt that the move by ICC will slash the number of guests on their site. Whether they pay up or go somewhere else is what I'm interested to know.

There are many free sites where you can play chess.

pax
03-08-2006, 09:37 AM
Can you really expect to get your chess for free?

What planet do you live on? There are thousands of places on the internet where you can play chess for free. The best of these (FICS) is the equal of ICC in many respects. If people can't play a game on ICC for free, they will just go elsewhere.

In my view this is a foolish move by ICC. What they need to be doing is promoting the added value of their non-free service (rated games, lectures, simuls, observing titled players etc). The best way to do that is to let people log on to the server and see what is going on. Without the ability to play a game, there is just no incentive for non-members to log on and get a picture of all the good stuff that goes on.

Dozy
03-08-2006, 09:58 AM
Following email just received from ICC:
We've heard the call!

Many paying members have told us that they sometimes like to play
anonymously, but our recent change to guest login doesn't allow them
to do so. We've listened to our members and now plan to add a new
anonymous login feature that will give members the same sort of
access they had in the past as guests. Given our full development
schedule right now, it will likely be several weeks before this can
be implemented, so please bear with us. Thanks for your feedback.
So you will be able to log in anonymously, Boris.


I have had 3 or 4 years of subscription to the ICC. I have not renewed it, preferring to put my money into chessgames.com. Excellent site! I've been in and out of chessgames.com for a couple of years making use of their database but have only recently become a subscriber. There are lots of good features and their free (to full members) personal forums are probably unique. Check this out: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessuser

Desmond
03-08-2006, 11:27 AM
So you will be able to log in anonymously, Boris.That does address one concern, but not all of them. It also does not help me, since I do not have a current login. It just means that in order to play a game, I will have to go elsewhere. It is doubtful that I will return once I have found an acceptable alternative that is free.

Brian_Jones
03-08-2006, 11:59 AM
What planet do you live on? There are thousands of places on the internet where you can play chess for free.

Of course there are. But playing free (or anonomously) is not for everyone.
It's a bit like cricket practice in the nets. It's not for real.

If you want to play real chess then you need a real opponent and a level playing field. And this may involve travel and may not come free.

We should support real chess clubs. These need money to survive.

I am seriously thinking about not using DGT Boards at the SIO. We want people to play or visit the event to be part of the festival atmosphere.

The internet only spectators are freeloading!?

Desmond
03-08-2006, 12:21 PM
Of course there are. But playing free (or anonomously) is not for everyone.
It is not for anyone on ICC anymore.

It's a bit like cricket practice in the nets. It's not for real. they have not banned unrated games by registered users.


If you want to play real chess then you need a real opponent and a level playing field. And this may involve travel and may not come free.

We should support real chess clubs. These need money to survive.
Not sure what this has to do with online play.


I am seriously thinking about not using DGT Boards at the SIO. We want people to play or visit the event to be part of the festival atmosphere.

The internet only spectators are freeloading!?
That would be a pity, particularly since you already have the technology available.

Basil
03-08-2006, 02:01 PM
Or are you just a typical mean chess player?

Don't take any of this personally Boris. Jones is just a typical mean commentator.

That you had a commercial response that defeated his imputation is a bonus.

Desmond
03-08-2006, 02:19 PM
Don't take any of this personally Boris. Jones is just a typical mean commentator.

That you had a commercial response that defeated his imputation is a bonus.
Not sure if Brian J meant mean as in average or mean as in unpleasant. I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

Brian_Jones
03-08-2006, 03:46 PM
Don't take any of this personally Boris. Jones is just a typical mean commentator.

I meant "mean" as in "selfish".:rolleyes:

I think Howard meant "mean" as in "good":)

Debate the following. "Almost all chess players are selfish"

Desmond
03-08-2006, 03:52 PM
Debate the following. "Almost all chess players are selfish"Are you a chess player?

Garvinator
03-08-2006, 04:21 PM
Are you a chess player?
2124!! Jones, Brian A

Brian_Jones
03-08-2006, 04:55 PM
Are you a chess player?

Yes I play chess, but I am one of the exceptions - I am generous to a fault!

pax
03-08-2006, 05:17 PM
I am seriously thinking about not using DGT Boards at the SIO. We want people to play or visit the event to be part of the festival atmosphere.

The internet only spectators are freeloading!?

That's a very blinkered attitude.

Do you expect people interstate or overseas to travel to Sydney just to *watch* the games? Or do you think that nobody interstate/overseas would be interested in the games?

Here's some news, Brian: if everybody had your attitude, there would be no internet. Here we all are, on a free bulletin board, making use of free network infrastructure. If all this stuff was on a fee for use basis, none of it would exist!

Garvinator
03-08-2006, 05:21 PM
That's a very blinkered attitude.

Do you expect people interstate or overseas to travel to Sydney just to *watch* the games? Or do you think that nobody interstate/overseas would be interested in the games?

Here's some news, Brian: if everybody had your attitude, there would be no internet. Here we all are, on a free bulletin board, making use of free network infrastructure. If all this stuff was on a fee for use basis, none of it would exist!
Also for the players having the dgt boards adds more to the event because many more people are watching the games and showing an interest in them. Furthermore, the sponsors product can be displayed all over the internet, which will receive so much more attention with many people watching the games online.

Not having the boards going will mean that for those not at the venue, the tournament was just like any other.

Desmond
03-08-2006, 06:22 PM
Yes I play chess, but I am one of the exceptions - I am generous to a fault!I suspected that may have been your position. Let me ask you this: What makes you think that chessplayers are any more selfish than the general population?

Basil
03-08-2006, 07:12 PM
OK I want to answer this buut I have to attend to the unmentionable first. It might have to go on the backburner with my post/ thrread to macavity.

But I want to answer it ... and it won't be pretty!

Brian_Jones
04-08-2006, 09:33 AM
That's a very blinkered attitude.

Do you expect people interstate or overseas to travel to Sydney just to *watch* the games? Or do you think that nobody interstate/overseas would be interested in the games?

Here's some news, Brian: if everybody had your attitude, there would be no internet.

Just the reaction I expected from you Pax (and GG subsequently).

No my attitude is not blinkered. It is carefully considered.
It is based on marketing considerations. You have to be in the ground to see the match. No live TV broadcast unless we are sold out.

I am sure people interstate and overseas are interested. But we do want them to come, play and spectate.

We will publish the results and game scores on the internet (but not the live games!)

Sorry guys. You will have to get on your bikes!

EGOR
04-08-2006, 09:51 AM
I am seriously thinking about not using DGT Boards at the SIO. We want people to play or visit the event to be part of the festival atmosphere.
If I could turn back time...:eek:

EGOR
04-08-2006, 09:55 AM
Yes I play chess, but I am one of the exceptions - I am generous to a fault!
So, is your decision not to have DGT boards a display if you incredable generousity?:clap:

EGOR
04-08-2006, 09:58 AM
JNo my attitude is not blinkered. It is carefully considered.
It is based on marketing considerations. You have to be in the ground to see the match. No live TV broadcast unless we are sold out.
I wonder why there are footie games shown live on TV every weekend with the games being sold out?:hmm:

Basil
04-08-2006, 10:05 AM
Hold the phones.
Call the police.
Lock up your daughters.
Sell your stocks and bonds.

I agree with Brian's sentiment. Although there is more fat left in this one still.

Garvinator
04-08-2006, 11:41 AM
I agree with Brian's sentiment. Although there is more fat left in this one still.
why do you agree with Brian's sentiment.

MichaelBaron
04-08-2006, 12:29 PM
Just the reaction I expected from you Pax (and GG subsequently).

No my attitude is not blinkered. It is carefully considered.
It is based on marketing considerations. You have to be in the ground to see the match. No live TV broadcast unless we are sold out.

I am sure people interstate and overseas are interested. But we do want them to come, play and spectate.

We will publish the results and game scores on the internet (but not the live games!)

Sorry guys. You will have to get on your bikes!

Another interesting option could be to make the games available "Live" but for a small subscription fee. E-Commerce textbooks call it "Subscrption-Based E-Business Model" or to find a sponsor for the live relay of the games and place the sponsor's logo right on top of the screen (Advertising E-Business Model)

Desmond
04-08-2006, 12:53 PM
Another interesting option could be to make the games available "Live" but for a small subscription fee. E-Commerce textbooks call it "Subscrption-Based E-Business Model" or to find a sponsor for the live relay of the games and place the sponsor's logo right on top of the screen (Advertising E-Business Model)
I doubt that you would bet many sunscribers doing this. Better to put it on a commercial site and reap the free publicity.

pax
04-08-2006, 02:50 PM
Just the reaction I expected from you Pax (and GG subsequently).

No my attitude is not blinkered. It is carefully considered.
It is based on marketing considerations. You have to be in the ground to see the match. No live TV broadcast unless we are sold out.

I am sure people interstate and overseas are interested. But we do want them to come, play and spectate.

Sounds like a great way to downplay the tournament's profile and devalue the event for your sponsors (if you have any).

Do you really think having live games on the net is going to reduce attendance at the tournament? I can't think of any circumstances under which the availability of live games on the net would alter a player's decision to play in an event one way or another.

Garvinator
04-08-2006, 03:06 PM
Since this thread seems like it will go on for a while I have a small disclaimer on this topic.

Brian and I have had a couple of emails back and forth where I have offered to be the dgt transmission person for the SIO. While my opinion will mostly be the same on this matter even if I had no plans to 'do the boards', I thought a disclaimer should be offered to avoid claims later that I was trying to hide my involvement or that I had an undeclared vested interest.

Garvinator
04-08-2006, 03:11 PM
I have replied to Pax's comments in the correct thread ;)

pax
04-08-2006, 03:17 PM
Another interesting option could be to make the games available "Live" but for a small subscription fee. E-Commerce textbooks call it "Subscrption-Based E-Business Model" or to find a sponsor for the live relay of the games and place the sponsor's logo right on top of the screen (Advertising E-Business Model)

A subscription model might work for some major international events, but I doubt that it would work for a (relatively) small fry tournament like SIO. If you were lucky you might collect a couple of hundred in subscriptions, but at the cost of massively reducing your site traffic (and hence reducing your sponsors' exposure).

Basil
04-08-2006, 03:33 PM
why do you agree with Brian's sentiment.

yada yada yada ...

I agree with Brian's sentiment for exactly the reasons he has stated. Unusually for him ;) he has been sufficiently succinct, erudite and apolitical that I see no advantage in paraphrasing him.

However, when AAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLL is said and done, the live transmission is ultimately:
a) the only option
b) in the best interests of the event and the sport.

Nontheless, I agree with the man's sentiment.
----------------------------------------------------

As a complete aside, it just tickles my hoo haa when lefties pursue a user-pays mantra. I love it. I love it. I love it.

It keeps me in the game. It keeps me sane.