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handfp
07-06-2006, 01:44 AM
Hi,

I know Paso Doble is the name of a Latin dance but does the term have any significance in Chess?

Frank

four four two
07-06-2006, 02:11 AM
For those who want to know about Paso Doble it means double step in Spanish,its a Spanish march and dance in 2/4 time, often in a minor key and played at a relatively quick pace.


Handfp,there are a few non english terms that are used widely in chess. Enpassant,intermezzo,and zugzwang being the most common.
I cant think of a spanish term used widely in chess.
Intermezzo which is used to desribe an "intermediate" move...a move that often is a gain of tempo,is the closest I can think of to a "double step"...
ala a Paso Doble.;)

Basil
07-06-2006, 03:56 AM
Wow! Fourfy! That's the second post I've really enjoyed tonight. Mac qv. Thanks for the education in the first para. Reminds me of Cat and Matt's piece on genomes. Good stuff. :clap:

Just like to take this opportunity to clarify another borrowed word which has subsequently been bastardised, for which chess takes sole credit:

Tempo, the latin for 'time'. As we know, 'time' has no plural. Not in English, and it didn't in Latin.

The chess vernaular corruption 'tempi', [indicating more than one move or increased amount of time], is the invention of chess scribes which I find personally abominable. I appreciate I am alone in this conviction:wall:

So there's an addition to the borrowed language of chess.

Rincewind
07-06-2006, 07:06 AM
Tempo, the latin for 'time'. As we know, 'time' has no plural. Not in English, and it didn't in Latin.

The chess vernaular corruption 'tempi', [indicating more than one move or increased amount of time], is the invention of chess scribes which I find personally abominable. I appreciate I am alone in this conviction:wall:

Tempo, like intermezzo and fianchetto, which I have yet to hear a chess player pronounce correctly, are borrowed from Italian and not Latin (well not Latin directly, anyway). The correct pluralisations are tempi, intermezzi and fianchetti as they are regular masculine nouns.

Tempo refers to time generally but also such things as beat and speed of music, weather and parts of a play (e.g. Act I, Act II). Given its usage in chess I would say 'tempi' is the correct pluralisation and "tempo(e)s" would be the corruption. Just as concerti is the correct plural of concerto and the term concerto(e)s is an abhorrence.

Step in Italian is passo and I cannot remember ever hearing it used in relation to chess. I would translate Paso Doble into Italian as Passo Doppio.

Dozy
07-06-2006, 08:40 AM
Step in Italian is passo and I cannot remember ever hearing it used in relation to chess. I would translate Paso Dople into Italian as Passo Doppio.I always thought a passo doppio was an idiot who overtakes on a dangerous curve.

And, of course, we all know that innuendo is an Italian suppository.

Must admit I'm unfamiliar with intermezzo in chess. Anybody want to enlighten me? Is it just another Axis term for zwichenzug?

Rincewind
07-06-2006, 09:11 AM
Must admit I'm unfamiliar with intermezzo in chess. Anybody want to enlighten me? Is it just another Axis term for zwichenzug?

Yep, I believe the two terms have pretty much the same meaning. Perhaps there is a slightly different sense to them, but I'm not aware of it.

However don't forget the 's' it's zwischenzug.

Chess etymologists might be interested in Edward Winter's Chess Note #4314 from April 2006.

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/winter21.html#4312._Sinclair_Lewis

Rincewind
07-06-2006, 09:22 AM
footnote:

The Merriam-Webster online dictionary has entries for fianchetto: as purely a chess term; and, intermezzo: as a general term meaning brief interlude of diversion without special mention of chess; but no mention of zwischenzug.

four four two
07-06-2006, 10:48 AM
Must admit I'm unfamiliar with intermezzo in chess. Anybody want to enlighten me? Is it just another Axis term for zwichenzug?

Unfamiliar with the term intermezzo?:hmm:
At this point I will ask have you read any chess books...:D
While the term isnt as common as tempo,its certainly alot more common than zugzwang.

Dozy
07-06-2006, 11:05 AM
Unfamiliar with the term intermezzo?:hmm:
At this point I will ask have you read any chess books...:D
While the term isnt as common as tempo,its certainly alot more common than zugzwang.Well, yes and no. My books are mostly over 30 years old. I'm very familiar with zugzwang and zwischenzug (with an s) so it may just be that they've gone out of style in more recent books.

Crikey, I'm so far out of date that I'm much more comfortable with the Ruy Lopez, Giuoco Piano and Centre Counter than those new-fangled Spanish, Italian and Scandinavian openings. They're a mystery to me.

Mind you that's my own fault because the Scandinavian was known as the Scandinavian since the birth of chess over 2000 years ago. Trust me, it's true, and I've uncovered a significant historical document that proves it. :whistle:

But you'll need to be patient. That's the subject of the Rooty Hill Christmas story ithis year -- so you'll have to wait till December to read it.

four four two
07-06-2006, 11:11 AM
Bloody hell,youre starting work a bit early on the christmas story arent you?:hmm: :lol: ;)

Dozy
07-06-2006, 11:26 AM
Bloody hell,youre starting work a bit early on the christmas story arent you?:hmm: :lol: ;)Reindeers? Reindeers? Good grief, man this is more serious than Rudolf pushing pieces around the board. Still, why not? We had Dasher and Dancer and Prancer and Vixen -- there may well have been a Patzer as well.

Anyway, as you'll discover, chess has been around lots longer than Santa and the reindeer.

If I wait till the last minute for a Christmas theme I'm likely to come up short so as soon as I finish one year's story I keep an eye out for a suitable idea for the next.

But in the realm of kids' stories I put up a new yarn about "Chess with Mother Goose" last week. It didn't have any of those confusing modern terms in it either! It's at http://www.rootyhillchess.org/goose.html.

Rincewind
07-06-2006, 11:44 AM
Unfamiliar with the term intermezzo?:hmm:
At this point I will ask have you read any chess books...:D
While the term isnt as common as tempo,its certainly alot more common than zugzwang.

Maybe it depends on the chess book you read. I'd expect zugzwang to have better representation than intermezzo in endgame literature. ;)

Basil
07-06-2006, 05:03 PM
Crikey!

Baz - it continues to be a pleasure - you have no idea of the starvation here in Qld. Love your work.

Tempi. I Googled for the first time ever today on this word - as up until now I was content with my own knowledge. [The previous story about correcting the Latin translation on the Qld Govt. coat of arms is a true one].

To my horror, one of the online dictionaries gives Tempi, albeit from the Italian as you suggested. I'll have to dig and ensure. It wouldn't be the first time that a dictionary has adopted a bastardisation purely on the strength of misuse entering popular culture. However, I'm certain you may be on to something. Will check in later once my heart rate has decreased.

442
Intermezzo - in between move.

Dozy
Not to be confused with Pisso Droopio. An unfortunate circumstance after a big night out - or so I'm told.

Axiom
08-06-2006, 12:52 AM
paso doble , italian, for passed double (pawns) :hmm: :doh: :eek:

handfp
08-06-2006, 01:13 AM
Interesting idea! Is there a well-known mating sequence involving passed double pawns?

Basil
08-06-2006, 02:18 AM
Interesting idea! Is there a well-known mating sequence involving passed double pawns?
Yes, but I think we avoid such discussions on the open board.

Dozy
08-06-2006, 07:35 AM
Interesting idea! Is there a well-known mating sequence involving passed double pawns?Hi\, handfp,

There's a well-known mating sequence where nothing moves except for pawns.

It was the basis for our Christmas story last year.

(Sorry, 442, it just happened. Honest. I didn't meant to bring it up again.)

If you wanna see this mysterious, mystical, magical way to win a chess game with no pieces on the board, visit The Santa Gambit at http://www.rootyhillchess.org/xmas05.html