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Basil
29-05-2006, 07:56 PM
Let's talk about the Tromp. 1. d4 Nf6 2.Bg5

I would like to know if any 2000+ players (or close) give the The Trompowsky a run around the block under tournament conditions. If so, and you have had a reasonable game with it, I'd appreciate an email with that game. Or post it here if you prefer. Perhaps you had a great position and failed to convert (tell me about it!!, sheez).

I appreciate this has been a much maligned opening in years gone by but is resurrected from time to time - twice significantly in the last 30 years. Of course the Poms about 10 years ago had some reasonable success.

The traditionalists at the Brisbane Chess Club aren't keen (although their respect for it is growing), but Jacob Edwards and a few other non traditional types always enjoy themselves when it is wheeled out.

I seldom play anything else (although I am certain my rating would improve if I did!). I would appreciate any intelligent discussion on The Tromp.

road runner
29-05-2006, 09:32 PM
I'd be much more impressed if you tried it against 1. d4 e6 2. Bg5 ;)

I seem to recall a British GM singing its praises a few years back. Can't remember which one though.

Basil
29-05-2006, 09:52 PM
Mickey Adams et al have all used it to good effect. But the Tromp king is Julian Hodgson. He's had some great games with it over the years and is never afraid to experiment.

He's had some disasters too, but then who hasn't?

Davidflude
29-05-2006, 10:49 PM
It is dealt with well in Gallagher's "Beating the Anti King's Indians". These days many repertoire books give good lines against the Tromp. I am not revealing which one I like.

WhiteElephant
29-05-2006, 11:01 PM
I am not revealing which one I like.

Go on, tell us. It's only a chess opening, not a plan for world domination.

Basil
29-05-2006, 11:36 PM
It is dealt with well in Gallagher's "Beating the Anti King's Indians". These days many repertoire books give good lines against the Tromp. I am not revealing which one I like.

Thanks David. I appreciate 'special' plans aren't for general consumption; they really should be left for the board, but are you happy to talk generally?

road runner
30-05-2006, 08:19 AM
the Tromp king is Julian Hodgson.

That's right. I remember he defeated Gufeld with it. Gufeld said "This is not chess. This is poker." JH retorted by pointing out who had won the game.

Davidflude
30-05-2006, 10:22 AM
Thanks David. I appreciate 'special' plans aren't for general consumption; they really should be left for the board, but are you happy to talk generally?

The Tromp is a very dangerous system to play against. Fortunately black has multiple choices of ways to counter it. The trick is to choose one that suits your style. In general terms asymetric defences usually involving c5 at some stage give greater winning and losing chances then variations based on d5.

So if you are a super solid stodge merchant play defences based on d5 and hope that white overreaches. On the other hand if you are a fighter play lines based on an early c5 and take your chances.

Basil
30-05-2006, 12:11 PM
I agree about the danger. It exists for both sides. For black, it can be trappy and white certainly is open to over reaching.

The fun seems to really start when fight says "bugger this' from the get go and goes hard on the dark squares. Qb6, hitting b2, dark squared bishop out on the queenside and so forth.

I'll see if I can dig up a game of mine and discuss with any interested party.

road runner
30-05-2006, 12:11 PM
Howard, any interest in 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 ... ?

Basil
30-05-2006, 12:13 PM
Howard, any interest in 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 ... ?

Hi Boris, I'll play 2.Bg5 in bridge, given half a chance! :)

I think I covered my rating issue earlier!

Trent Parker
30-05-2006, 12:57 PM
wasn't rogers playing the tromp at one time?

arosar
30-05-2006, 03:24 PM
THat's a serious challenge right there.

AR

road runner
30-05-2006, 10:23 PM
Fancy a game Howard?

1. d4 d5
2. Bg5 h6

Basil
31-05-2006, 12:29 AM
Fancy a game Howard?

1. d4 d5
2. Bg5 h6

Hi Boris. Missed this one! I guess I've loud mouthed around here enough to be brought out into the open. So I won't shirk :)

Let's take this to the corespondence thread.

Cheers

Basil
01-06-2006, 11:34 AM
Check out my game with Howard for more pros for the Tromp! :confused:

Well - Trompish.
- White gives up bishop pair early - apparently for no consideration.
- White leaves his q side open to attack
- Gives the traditionalists ample ammo to shake finger spouting years of theory

Nonetheless, the Tromp is highly suspect, but I love him :)

Given my rating plummet, I will think about a divorce [but not for long] :hmm:

melina
01-06-2006, 04:46 PM
Well - Trompish.
Given my rating plummet, I will think about a divorce [but not for long] :hmm:

Will you now!!!!
Just for that you get casserole for dinner again

pax
01-06-2006, 04:54 PM
Will you now!!!!
Just for that you get casserole for dinner again
Sprung! :eek:

Basil
01-06-2006, 04:59 PM
Will you now!!!!
Just for that you get casserole for dinner again

No! you silly adorable thing! The divorce referred to The Tromp.

Read the line above the quote "but I love him". I was referring to the Tromp!

Damn, this is a dangerous world :) & stop stirring the pot, pax :) [excellent pun intended].

Kevin Bonham
02-06-2006, 12:43 PM
Howard, any interest in 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 ... ?

I have an old BCM which mentions a tournament which Hodgson won playing either the Tromp or the pseudo-Tromp (1.d4 d5 2.Bg5) at every opportunity with the white pieces.

The start of one of his wins is annotated roughly as follows:


1. d4 d5?

The first mistake. 1...h6 wins a bishop.

Basil
02-06-2006, 02:17 PM
1. d4 d5?
The first mistake. 1...h6 wins a bishop.[

LOL

Kevin Bonham
02-06-2006, 03:31 PM
Michael Hornung played the pseudo-Tromp against me in the 2000 Tassie state interclub.

I knew virtually nothing about it and was walloped in 17 moves. :(

Basil
02-06-2006, 04:02 PM
Michael Hornung played the pseudo-Tromp against me in the 2000 Tassie state interclub.

I knew virtually nothing about it and was walloped in 17 moves. :(

That's what we wanna hear:) Nice 'fess, Kevin:cool:

However, while I am not familiar Michael, I suspect one of the many differences between us is that he DOES know something about it!
---------------------------------
Interested observers might like to know that I wasn't part of a club or read any chess literature until I was dragged down to the Brisbane Club by those who frequented my cafe in 2000 (aged in my mid 30's)

I started playing the Tromp before I knew it existed.

Garvinator
02-06-2006, 04:26 PM
That's what we wanna hear:) Nice 'fess, Kevin:cool:

However, while I am not familiar Michael, I suspect one of the many differences between us is that he DOES know something about it!
next you will be starting a thread on the scandinavian defence.

road runner
02-06-2006, 04:39 PM
next you will be starting a thread on the scandinavian defence.

How outlandish to discuss a chess opening in a chess forum

Kevin Bonham
02-06-2006, 05:17 PM
That's what we wanna hear:) Nice 'fess, Kevin:cool:

However, while I am not familiar Michael, I suspect one of the many differences between us is that he DOES know something about it!

One would think so. At one stage his rating was over 2000. My own record against him was a miserable .5/5. Two of my other losses against him were also rather crushing, including one in which I got zugzwanged on a board half-full of pieces.

Basil
02-06-2006, 05:41 PM
How outlandish to discuss a chess opening in a chess forum
Indeed. But Boris, just clarifying, Garvin and I have the misfortune to sit on Council together; a situation made more miserable by the fact we share the same chess club :)

We are colleagues and his comment was made entirely in good nature. It also happens to be accurate, as his very suggestion has been wobbling around my rather unstable mind for a few days now :)

road runner
02-06-2006, 06:28 PM
Indeed. But Boris, just clarifying, Garvin and I have the misfortune to sit on Council together; a situation made more miserable by the fact we share the same chess club :)

We are colleagues and his comment was made entirely in good nature. It also happens to be accurate, as his very suggestion has been wobbling around my rather unstable mind for a few days now :)

My comment was only meant lightly :)

Basil
02-06-2006, 09:06 PM
My comment was only meant lightly :)

That's a shame. Garvin's the sort of bloke I like to see get un unfair kicking from time to time. Makes me feel more normal :)

Basil
04-06-2006, 10:53 PM
wasn't rogers playing the tromp at one time?

I don't know, but he's playing it now!! BOOM BOOM :)
[last round olympiad, for those that didn't know]

road runner
05-06-2006, 09:11 AM
I don't know, but he's playing it now!! BOOM BOOM :)
[last round olympiad, for those that didn't know]

Is he really playing the Tromp? (can never tell with you Howard ;))

Basil
05-06-2006, 02:03 PM
Is he really playing the Tromp? (can never tell with you Howard ;))

Oh yeah! It was the Tromp, baby! Personal favour to me.

Lucena
07-06-2006, 02:09 AM
Let's talk about the Tromp. 1. d4 Nf6 2.Bg5

I would like to know if any 2000+ players (or close) give the The Trompowsky a run around the block under tournament conditions. If so, and you have had a reasonable game with it, I'd appreciate an email with that game. Or post it here if you prefer. Perhaps you had a great position and failed to convert (tell me about it!!, sheez).


I'll just post a few games I've had against the Trompovsky, all were interesting for one reason or another.

In this one apparently I could have held the balance around move 34 or 35, but overlooked a nice trick by David winning a piece.

[Event "Doeberl Cup 42nd"]
[Site "Canberra"]
[Date "2004.04.09"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Smerdon,David"]
[Black "Charles,Gareth"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "D00"]
1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 d5 3.Bxf6 exf6 4.e3 Bd6 5.g3 0-0 6.Bg2 c6 7.Ne2 Be6 8.Nd2 f5 9.b3 Nd7 10.0-0 Nf6 11.c4 Re8 12.c5 Bc7 13.b4 b5 14.cxb6 axb6 15.Qc2 Bd6 16.a3 Bd7 17.Nc3 Qe7 18.Qb3 Ne4 19.Ndxe4 fxe4 20.Rfb1 b5 21.a4 bxa4 22.Nxa4 Reb8 23.Nc5 g6 24.Qc3 Bg4 25.Bf1 h5 26.Rxa8 Rxa8 27.b5 cxb5 28.Rxb5 Rc8 29.Qa5 h4 30.Qa6 hxg3 31.hxg3 Bxc5 32.dxc5 Rxc5 33.Rb8+ Kg7 34.Qa1+ f6 35.Qa8 Be6 36.Re8 Qf7 37.Rxe6 Qxe6 38.Qa7+ Kh6 39.Qxc5 Kg5 40.Bc4
f5 41.Bxd5 Qe5 42.Kg2 Kf6 43.Qf8+ Kg5 44.Bf7 Qf6 45.Qg8 Qd6 46.Qh8 1-0

I have always been convinced I had a lost position out of the early stages of the following game. After Bxd6 exd6 my Bc8 has nowhere to go and I was surprised White let me swap it off.

[Event "Oceania zt"]
[Site "Auckland"]
[Date "2005.01.30"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Wallis,Christopher"]
[Black "Charles,Gareth"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "A45"]
1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 3.Bf4 c5 4.f3 Nf6 5.dxc5 b6 6.e4 bxc5 7.Nc3 Nc6 8.Qd2
g6 9.Nd5 Nxd5 10.exd5 Nd4 11.c3 Nf5 12.g4 Nd6 13.Bxd6 exd6 14.0-0-0 Bg7 15.Re1+ Kf8 16.h4 h5 17.g5 Qa5 18.Qe3 Ba6 19.Bxa6 Qxa6 20.Kb1 Rb8 21.Rh2 Kg8 22.Rhe2 Qc4 23.Qe4 Qxc3 24.Qc2 Kh7 25.Qxc3 Bxc3 26.Rc1 Bd4 0-1

This was a really crazy game, I got this dubious position but eventually emerged somehow into an ending a pawn up. Unfortunately I was quite short of time (even with the 30s increment) and Chris well and truly exploited this.

[Event "Oceania zt"]
[Site "Auckland"]
[Date "2005.01.30"]
[Round "5"]
[White "Depasquale,Chris"]
[Black "Charles,Gareth"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "A45"]
1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 3.Bf4 c5 4.f3 Nf6 5.d5 Qb6 6.Be5 d6 7.Bc3 Nbd7 8.e4 Qd8 9.a4 e6 10.dxe6 fxe6 11.Nh3 d5 12.e5 Ng8 13.f4 Nh6 14.Ng5 Nb8 15.Bd3 g6 16.Nxh7 Rxh7 17.Bxg6+ Nf7 18.Bxh7 Qh4+ 19.g3 Qxh7 20.Qd3 Qh3 21.Na3 a6 22.0-0-0 Bd7 23.Qf1 Qh6 24.h4 Qh5 25.Rg1 Nh6 26.g4 Nxg4 27.Qf3 Nf6 28.Qxh5+ Nxh5 29.Rg8 Ke7 30.Bd2 Bg7 31.f5 exf5 32.Rg1 Kf7
33.Rd8 Bxe5 34.Rgg8 Bd6 35.Rh8 Nf6 36.h5 Ra7 37.h6 Nc6 38.h7 Nxd8 39.Rxd8 Nxh7 40.Rxd7+ Be7 41.Rxd5 Ke6 42.Rd3 Ra8 43.Re3+ Kf7 44.Rb3 Rg8 45.Kb1 Rg1+ 46.Ka2 Rd1 47.Nc4 Nf6 48.Rxb7 Nd5 49.Kb3 f4 50.Ra7 Nb6 51.Ne5+ Ke6 52.Bxf4 Rd4 53.Rxe7+ Kxe7 54.Nc6+ Kd7 55.Nxd4 cxd4 56.Be5 d3
57.cxd3 Kc6 58.Bg3 Nd5 59.Bf2 Nf4 60.Kc4 Ng6 61.Bg3 Ne7 62.b4 Nf5 63.Bf4 Ng7 64.d4 Ne8 65.Be5 1-0

This was an interesting game for me because I thought in the opening I was fine-Bishop outside the pawn chain, solid pawn structure...but White in fact has an edge-Black's light squared bishop is in fact not very active and White has a pleasant space advantage. 7...b6 was correct I believe, after
Qb6 White ends up getting a real bind on the Qside after forcing Black to swap on b3 with 10.c5.

[Event "Begonia op"]
[Site "Ballarat"]
[Date "2004.03.06"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Smerdon,David"]
[Black "Charles,Gareth"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "A45"]
1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 3.Bf4 d5 4.e3 Bf5 5.f3 Nf6 6.c4 c6 7.Qb3 Qb6 8.Nc3 e6
9.g4 Bg6 10.c5 Qxb3 11.axb3 Be7 12.h4 h6 13.b4 0-0 14.b3 Re8 15.Ra2 Kf8 16.g5 hxg5 17.hxg5 Ng8 18.Nh3 Rc8 19.b5 Ke8 20.b4 Bf8 21.b6 a6 22.b5 a5 23.Kf2 f6 24.Bxb8 Rcxb8 25.bxc6 bxc6 26.Be2 Ne7 27.Rha1 e5 28.Rxa5 Rxa5 29.Rxa5 Nf5 30.Bd3 Be7 31.Ra7 Kd8 32.f4 exd4 33.exd4 Nh4 34.Bxg6 Nxg6 35.Kg3 Nf8 36.f5 fxg5 37.Kg4 Nh7 38.Na4 Bf6 39.Rc7 Rc8 40.Rf7 Bxd4
41.Nxg5 Nxg5 42.Kxg5 Bf6+ 43.Kf4 Ke8 44.Rb7 Kd8 45.Ra7 Bd4 46.Kg5 Be5 47.Kg6 Rb8 48.Kf7 d4 49.Ke6 Bf6 50.Kd6 d3 51.Ke6 1-0

Basil
07-06-2006, 04:03 AM
I'll just post a few games I've had against the Trompovsky, all were interesting for one reason or another.

Cheers Charles

I will make sure to have a look at all the games when I get a chance. But just clarifying, for the great unwashed, and they certainly are!, that

Smerdon
De Pasquale
Wallis, and as we now know
Rogers

have all played The Tromp.

To self: My godfathers; you don't think all the little classical e4 munchkins are going to run off an brush up, do you?

road runner
07-06-2006, 09:27 AM
Having trouble sleeping last night Howard?

Basil
07-06-2006, 04:44 PM
Having trouble sleeping last night Howard?

Logged off at 12 I think [perhaps 1]. What with my [insert unmentionable playing the sympathy/ victim card here] and Renée's daughter [aged 23] and her 2 month old here - I had no hope!

Logged back on at 4 - and decided to storm the place!

Garvinator
29-07-2006, 12:55 PM
I think Howard will be happy with this:

Former women's world champ wins with the tromp.

[Event "North Urals Cup"]
[Site "Krasnoturyinsk RUS"]
[Date "2006.07.23"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Stefanova,A"]
[Black "Kosintseva,T"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2520"]
[BlackElo "2479"]
[EventDate "2006.07.23"]
[ECO "A45"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 Ne4 3. Bf4 c5 4. f3 Nf6 5. d5 e6 6. e4 exd5 7. exd5 d6 8. Bb5+ Nbd7 9. Qe2+ Qe7 10. Nc3 a6 11. Bxd7+ Bxd7 12. O-O-O Qxe2 13. Ngxe2 O-O-O 14. g4 h6 15. h4 b5 16. Ng3 b4 17. Nb1 Be7 18. c4 Nh7 19. Rde1 Bf8 20. Nd2 g6 21. Nde4 Be8 22. Re2 f6 23. h5 f5 24. gxf5 g5 25. Bd2 Bg7 26. f4 g4 27. f6 Nxf6 28. Nxf6 Bxf6 29. Re6 Bd4 30. Nf5 Bf2 31. Be1 Bxe1 32. Rhxe1
Bxh5 33. Nxd6+ Kb8 34. Ne4 Bf7 35. Rf6 Be8 36. Nxc5 h5 37. Re7 g3 38. Rb6+
Kc8 39. Nxa6 1-0

Basil
29-07-2006, 07:33 PM
Thanks Garvin.

Basil
10-12-2006, 01:45 PM
Excuse me. I'd like to play Shirov. I'd like to play the Tromp. I'd like to sack a rook and win in 13 moves. Thanks.

Oh ... and I'd like to be an Englishman.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1388094

Kevin Bonham
10-12-2006, 09:47 PM
Major preparation failure on Shirov's part apparently. Quite amazing.

Apparently Black is objectively lost after 13.Qe3 but it takes rather a lot of analysis to demonstrate it. There is some suggestion Shirov may have resigned in disgust or because he was way behind on the clock as well as having a dud position.

Basil
11-12-2006, 04:23 AM
OK, I'd like another GM stiff, bloated on gobbling both the b pawn and q rook - belch!?

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1148649

Kevin Bonham
11-12-2006, 11:49 AM
That's the stem game on which Shirov, according to one source, "disimproved" (I liked that word.)

Apparently the f6-f5-f4 maneuver for Black is rubbish.

antichrist
31-12-2006, 04:12 PM
Being a big mouth and putting my foot in it, I can only gather that all the Tromp games currently under way are by amateurs because they have all(?) responded to 2. Bg5 by 2....h6 and 3...g5, that I think may trangress Lasker's strategy? Which is not what the more classy players in this thread have done.

Basil
10-07-2007, 12:15 AM
Is it The Tromp!?

Or is it a brilliancy?

No!, it's Howard Duggan doing both! ;)

Before you shriek about Black's 8...f6, the comp has black + as a result of it, and question mark's white's sacrifice. After all, sacrificing is one thing - proving it is quite another. I don't know if the sac was proven, but the counter-play was hellish!

Play through slowly and watch in awe ;) :lol:

[Event "Lidums U/1600"]
[Date "2007.07.07"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Howard"]
[Black "A. Nother"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 g6 3. e3 Bg7 4. Nd2 d6 5. Bd3 Nbd7 6. f4 c5 7. Ngf3 Nd5 { e3 is threatened. White felt Qe2 allowed black too much with Nb4. } 8. f5 f6 { Black's text might be weakening, but what is white to do? } 9. fxg6 fxg5 10. gxh7 { So may options, but do any of them work? e3 still hangs, but can't be taken because Qe2 puts the entire white army on patrol. } Nf8 11. Nxg5 Nf6 { Now black has glued everything back together and is a piece up! } 12. O-O Bg4 13. Bb5+ { Now it's time to throw everything at the bugger with not a second's
breath } Bd7 14. Rxf6 { Black's knights hold his game together. Time for them to go. White throws in an exchange as well. } Bxb5 15. Rxf8+ Rxf8 16. c4 { Takes time out to push the bishop out of play once and for all. A retreat to d6 is met with d5. A retreat to d7 mates. } Ba6 17. Ne6 Qa5 18. Nxg7+ Kf7 19. Qg4 { Mate in 6 apparently! } e5 20. Rf1+ Ke7 21. Qe6+ Kd8 22. Qxd6+ 1-0

10 consecutive moves either taking, checking or threatening to take! Woo-hoo! In the final position, white has time to leave his own knight en prise and ignore a whole black rook. Breath-taking !!!

bergil
10-07-2007, 08:04 AM
Gunner, the game doesn't play?

Which is a pity as I was looking forward to being gobsmacked by your brilliancy!

Capablanca-Fan
10-07-2007, 09:15 AM
Isn't love for the Tromp really a manifestation of hatred for the QB? ;)

Basil
10-07-2007, 09:28 AM
Gunner, the game doesn't play?

Which is a pity as I was looking forward to being gobsmacked by your brilliancy!

Fixled.
Copyright Frosty.


Isn't love for the Tromp really a manifestation of hatred for the QB? ;)
No. It gives of itself, and the forces speak in its honour at the end of every game.

road runner
10-07-2007, 09:49 AM
Good win, HD. :clap:

Mischa
10-07-2007, 12:17 PM
Is it The Tromp!?

Or is it a brilliancy?

No!, it's Howard Duggan doing both! ;)

Before you shriek about Black's 8...f6, the comp has black + as a result of it, and question mark's white's sacrifice. After all, sacrificing is one thing - proving it is quite another. I don't know if the sac was proven, but the counter-play was hellish!

Play through slowly and watch in awe ;) :lol:

[Event "Lidums U/1600"]
[Date "2007.07.07"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Howard"]
[Black "A. Nother"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 g6 3. e3 Bg7 4. Nd2 d6 5. Bd3 Nbd7 6. f4 c5 7. Ngf3 Nd5 { e3 is threatened. White felt Qe2 allowed black too much with Nb4. } 8. f5 f6 { Black's text might be weakening, but what is white to do? } 9. fxg6 fxg5 10. gxh7 { So may options, but do any of them work? e3 still hangs, but can't be taken because Qe2 puts the entire white army on patrol. } Nf8 11. Nxg5 Nf6 { Now black has glued everything back together and is a piece up! } 12. O-O Bg4 13. Bb5+ { Now it's time to throw everything at the bugger with not a second's
breath } Bd7 14. Rxf6 { Black's rooks hold his game together. Time for them to go. White throws in an exchange as well. } Bxb5 15. Rxf8+ Rxf8 16. c4 { Takes time out to push the bishop out of play once and for all. A retreat to d6 is met with d5. A retreat to d7 mates. } Ba6 17. Ne6 Qa5 18. Nxg7+ Kf7 19. Qg4 { Mate in 6 apparently! } e5 20. Rf1+ Ke7 21. Qe6+ Kd8 22. Qxd6+ 1-0

10 consecutive moves either taking, checking or threatening to take! Woo-hoo! In the final position, white has time to leave his own knight en prise and ignore a whole black rook. Breath-taking !!!



Hey weren't you playing James Griggs?
A 14 year old?
Rated 1171???
Still a win is a win I guess.

Capablanca-Fan
10-07-2007, 01:13 PM
[Event "Lidums U/1600"]
[Date "2007.07.07"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Howard"]
[Black "A. Nother"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 g6 3. e3 Bg7 4. Nd2 d6 5. Bd3 Nbd7 6. f4 c5 7. Ngf3 Nd5 { e3 is threatened. White felt Qe2 allowed black too much with Nb4. } 8. f5 f6 { Black's text might be weakening, but what is white to do? } 9. fxg6 fxg5 10. gxh7 { So may options, but do any of them work? e3 still hangs, but can't be taken because Qe2 puts the entire white army on patrol. } Nf8 11. Nxg5 Nf6 { Now black has glued everything back together and is a piece up! } 12. O-O Bg4 13. Bb5+ { Now it's time to throw everything at the bugger with not a second's
breath } Bd7 14. Rxf6 { Black's rooks hold his game together. Time for them to go. White throws in an exchange as well. } Bxb5 15. Rxf8+ Rxf8 16. c4 { Takes time out to push the bishop out of play once and for all. A retreat to d6 is met with d5. A retreat to d7 mates. } Ba6 17. Ne6 Qa5 18. Nxg7+ Kf7 19. Qg4 { Mate in 6 apparently! } e5 20. Rf1+ Ke7 21. Qe6+ Kd8 22. Qxd6+ 1-0

A very good attack that would do credit to a higher-rated player.

The Stonewall formation is usually dubious if Black hasn't played ...d5 to cede the e5 outpost for your N.

Basil
10-07-2007, 02:48 PM
Hey weren't you playing James Griggs? A 14 year old? Rated 1171???
Yes. I was hoping that his name wouldn't be mentioned, as is etiquette with juniors. Odd. I thought you might have known that :whistle:


Still a win is a win I guess.
Mischa, I'm overwhelmed by both your gracious congratulations on my achievement in the thread :eek: (an excellent result for me) and your acknowledgment of this fine game.

You've done very well all 'round.


A very good attack that would do credit to a higher-rated player...
Thanks Jon!

Mischa
10-07-2007, 03:27 PM
lol

Sunshine
10-07-2007, 04:13 PM
So may options, but do any of them work? e3 still hangs, but can't be taken because Qe2 puts the entire white army on patrol.

Well done Howard - on the game and the tournament.

This game is great entertainment value - but can you take me through the Nxe3 Qe2 white army on patrol thing.

I reckon black can just hold it together with cxd4.

Basil
10-07-2007, 08:52 PM
Well done Howard - on the game and the tournament.
Thanks.


This game is great entertainment value
Aye!


... but can you take me through the Nxe3, Qe2 white army on patrol thing

No! :lol:

a) My suggestion is not the best move. And Nxe3 is a good move for black.
b) The other options are complicated. I don't understand them, anyway.
c) I claim OTB terrorism as justification ;)

Sunshine
10-07-2007, 09:28 PM
I think I answered a rhetorical question.

Axiom
10-07-2007, 10:30 PM
Isn't love for the Tromp really a manifestation of hatred for the QB? ;)
Jono, i believe it runs deeper than that.
I believe that it is the epitomied, embodied, manifestation of the sheer unbridled primordial inclination towards the very hatred of life itself.
A blight on the collective human character if you will.

Kevin Bonham
10-07-2007, 11:35 PM
There is a very amusing reply possible to 10...Nxe3, which is 11.Nxg5!? If the queen is taken, Black is mated. :eek:

The key line seems to be 11...Nf6 12.Bg6+ Kf8 13.Qf3 cxd4 14.Qxb7!! (oh yeah!) after which the position is an absolute mess. Maybe White doesn't objectively have enough for the piece but in practical play ...

road runner
11-07-2007, 09:45 AM
There is a very amusing reply possible to 10...Nxe3, which is 11.Nxg5!? If the queen is taken, Black is mated. :eek: Didn't see that at first. Lovely. :D

Sunshine
11-07-2007, 10:14 AM
Maybe White doesn't objectively have enough for the piece but in practical play ...

I think it is a position where the better player is going to win - no matter which colour they are.

The actual continuation was great attacking play.

I just thought the analysis dismissed Nxe3 a little too readily - as far as I can see it holds, but I'm sure a better player would probably still win it from there.

Basil
11-07-2007, 10:18 AM
I just thought the analysis dismissed Nxe3 a little too readily ...
You're (quite)* correct. It did. *excuse redundancy for effect :eek:

I've had a good look now and there are quite a few continuations. White has all the fun in most, but with best play black can wriggle successfully and eventually come out ahead. In one crazy variation, black wins with a denuded king on the 4th!

The calculation for those variations at the board is well beyond me - I think I'll just stick to a 'bit of barry' and and psychological terrorism :lol:

For the time being, anyway.

CameronD
31-10-2007, 02:14 PM
Gunner asked that I post this game.
This is what happens when people use one of gunners openings!!!

12 player simulation against russian IM (FIDE 2380) at 45 minutes + 15 sec/move. I have the black pieces. IM scored 9W 2D 1L

1. d4 {0:45:08} d5
{0:45:11} 2. Bg5 {0:45:18} Nf6 {0:43:44} 3. e3 {0:45:31} Bf5 {0:43:00} 4. Bd3 {
0:45:42} Bxd3 {0:42:49} 5. Qxd3 {0:45:49} c6 {0:42:16} 6. Nd2 {0:45:57} Nbd7 {
0:41:52} 7. f4 {0:46:09} h6 {0:39:10} 8. Bh4 {0:46:07} Qa5 {0:38:29} 9. c3 {
0:45:55} e6 {0:35:14} 10. Ngf3 {0:43:03} Bd6 {0:31:54} 11. O-O {0:42:28} O-O-O
{0:30:56} 12. Ne5 {0:41:28} Rdf8 {0:28:10} 13. a4 {0:39:51} c5 {0:25:58} 14.
Rfc1 {0:37:44} c4 {0:25:30} 15. Qc2 {0:37:43} g5 {0:24:15} 16. Bg3 {0:37:06}
Nh5 {0:23:14} 17. Ndf3 {0:35:52} gxf4 {0:21:10} 18. exf4 {0:35:53} Nxg3 {
0:20:27} 19. hxg3 {0:35:54} Nxe5 {0:20:12} 20. Nxe5 {0:35:37} Bxe5 {0:20:21}
21. fxe5 {0:34:54} Rhg8 {0:17:41} 22. Qf2 {0:34:53} Rg5 {0:16:29} 23. Re1 {
0:34:55} Qd8 {0:15:20} 24. Qf4 {0:34:41} f6 {0:13:56} 25. exf6 {0:34:11} Rxf6 {
0:13:11} 26. Qh4 {0:33:26} Qg8 {0:12:47} 27. Re3 {0:33:24} Qg6 {0:12:19} 28.
Rae1 {0:32:39} Rh5 {0:10:35} 29. Qxf6 {0:31:41} Qxf6 {0:10:23} 30. Rxe6 {
0:30:49} Qg7 {0:08:46} 31. Re7 {0:28:51} Qxg3 {0:08:10} 32. R1e6 {0:27:34} Qh2+
{0:06:58} 33. Kf2 {0:26:31} Rf5+ {0:06:58} 34. Ke3 {0:26:02} Qg3+ {
0:04:27 White resigns} 0-1

Capablanca-Fan
31-10-2007, 03:02 PM
Gunner asked that I post this game.
This is what happens when people use one of gunners openings!!!
Hardly Gunner's fault. He would have played 3.Bxf6, rather than set up a Stonewall after his good B was exhanged.


12 player simulation against russian IM (FIDE 2380) at 45 minutes + 15 sec/move. I have the black pieces. IM scored 9W 2D 1L

1. d4 {0:45:08} d5
{0:45:11} 2. Bg5 {0:45:18} Nf6 {0:43:44} 3. e3 {0:45:31} Bf5 {0:43:00} 4. Bd3 {
0:45:42} Bxd3 {0:42:49} 5. Qxd3 {0:45:49} c6 {0:42:16} 6. Nd2 {0:45:57} Nbd7 {
0:41:52} 7. f4 {0:46:09} h6 {0:39:10} 8. Bh4 {0:46:07} Qa5 {0:38:29} 9. c3 {
0:45:55} e6 {0:35:14} 10. Ngf3 {0:43:03} Bd6 {0:31:54} 11. O-O {0:42:28} O-O-O
{0:30:56} 12. Ne5 {0:41:28} Rdf8 {0:28:10} 13. a4 {0:39:51} c5 {0:25:58} 14.
Rfc1 {0:37:44} c4 {0:25:30} 15. Qc2 {0:37:43} g5 {0:24:15} 16. Bg3 {0:37:06}
Nh5 {0:23:14} 17. Ndf3 {0:35:52} gxf4 {0:21:10} 18. exf4 {0:35:53} Nxg3 {
0:20:27} 19. hxg3 {0:35:54} Nxe5 {0:20:12} 20. Nxe5 {0:35:37} Bxe5 {0:20:21}
21. fxe5 {0:34:54} Rhg8 {0:17:41} 22. Qf2 {0:34:53} Rg5 {0:16:29} 23. Re1 {
0:34:55} Qd8 {0:15:20} 24. Qf4 {0:34:41} f6 {0:13:56} 25. exf6 {0:34:11} Rxf6 {
0:13:11} 26. Qh4 {0:33:26} Qg8 {0:12:47} 27. Re3 {0:33:24} Qg6 {0:12:19} 28.
Rae1 {0:32:39} Rh5 {0:10:35} 29. Qxf6 {0:31:41} Qxf6 {0:10:23} 30. Rxe6 {
0:30:49} Qg7 {0:08:46} 31. Re7 {0:28:51} Qxg3 {0:08:10} 32. R1e6 {0:27:34} Qh2+
{0:06:58} 33. Kf2 {0:26:31} Rf5+ {0:06:58} 34. Ke3 {0:26:02} Qg3+ {
0:04:27 White resigns} 0-1
Pretty good game on your part. You were better even before he allowed his Q to be trapped.

Basil
31-10-2007, 06:32 PM
That's not a Tromp! That's a disgrace! What the heck was the opponent's plan behind opening his own castled k-side, while locking up (his opponent's ) castled q-side?

And as for leaving d-square bishop on the board - he's a rank amateur (with a good rating) ;)

Well played Cam.

CameronD
31-10-2007, 06:56 PM
Remember that it was a simulation and I have a low rating, so he wouldn't have taken me seriously.

He probably only had 20 seconds per move in reality. As you can see, I took my time to find the best lines. Admittedly, an IM should have drawn from move 22 against me.

1. d4 d5 2. Bg5 Nf6 3. Bxf6 exf6 makes it hard for the higher rated player to win.

Capablanca-Fan
31-10-2007, 07:43 PM
1. d4 d5 2. Bg5 Nf6 3. Bxf6 exf6 makes it hard for the higher rated player to win.
I'd back a much higher player to win from either colour. Give a player a safe position with plenty of pieces, and he'll find a way to outplay someone a few hundred points below him.

Aaron Guthrie
01-11-2007, 12:03 AM
I'd back a much higher player to win from either colour. Give a player a safe position with plenty of pieces, and he'll find a way to outplay someone a few hundred points below him.I think often the lower rated player finds a way to lose it (rather than the higher rated player needing to win it, as such).

Capablanca-Fan
01-11-2007, 01:08 AM
I think often the lower rated player finds a way to lose it (rather than the higher rated player needing to win it, as such).
Couldn't this be said of most rating mismatches though?

Aaron Guthrie
01-11-2007, 08:37 AM
Couldn't this be said of most rating mismatches though?Yes. It was a comment on your comment.

Basil
11-05-2008, 10:08 PM
Hi,everyone
This is a game l played against Pano Skiotis last year in
Fitzroy open .

HOGG - SkIOTIS

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 Ne4 3. h4 h6 4. Bf4 d5 5. e3
e6 6. Bd3 Bd6 7. Ne2 c5 8. Bxe4 dxe4 9. Nbc3 f5 10. Bxd6 Qxd6 11. Nf4 O-O 12.
dxc5 Qxc5 13. Qd4 Qxd4 14. exd4 Nc6 15. d5 exd5 16. Ncxd5 Ne5 17. O-O-O {0} g5
{0} 18. hxg5 hxg5 19. Ne7+ Kg7 20. Nfd5 Bd7 21. Rh5 g4 22. Nc7 Rad8 23. Rd5 Kf6
24. Rh6+ Kxe7 25. Rxe5+ Kf7 26. Nd5 Kg7 27. Rd6 Bc6 28. Re7+ Kh8 29. Rh6+ Kg8
30. Nf6+ Rxf6 31. Rxf6 Rd5 32. g3 a6 33. a3 Ra5 34. Rd6 Kf8 35. Rc7 Ke8 36. Rh6
Kd8 37. Rg7 Re5 38. Rh8+ Re8 39. Rxe8+ Kxe8 40. Kd2 Bd7 41. Ke3 Kd8 42. Kf4 Kc7
43. Rxd7+ Kxd7 44. Kxf5 Kc6 45. Kxe4 Kc5 46. b3 1-0

Basil
11-05-2008, 11:36 PM
Wow that's crazy. I think you'd need an Aaron or a mac or a Jono to annotate that. Thanks for posting.

antichrist
12-05-2008, 10:56 AM
Let's talk about the Tromp. 1. d4 Nf6 2.Bg5

I would like to know if any 2000+ players (or close) give the The Trompowsky a run around the block under tournament conditions. If so, and you have had a reasonable game with it, I'd appreciate an email with that game. Or post it here if you prefer. Perhaps you had a great position and failed to convert (tell me about it!!, sheez).

I appreciate this has been a much maligned opening in years gone by but is resurrected from time to time - twice significantly in the last 30 years. Of course the Poms about 10 years ago had some reasonable success.

The traditionalists at the Brisbane Chess Club aren't keen (although their respect for it is growing), but Jacob Edwards and a few other non traditional types always enjoy themselves when it is wheeled out.

I seldom play anything else (although I am certain my rating would improve if I did!). I would appreciate any intelligent discussion on The Tromp.


I believe it was first used on this board two Xmas's ago by the said Duggan but was exorcised by the A/C, A/C 1 - Duggan 0. (not rubbing it in or anything)

Vlad
14-05-2008, 01:11 PM
Here is the game I played yesterday. Post it especially for you, Gunner.:)

[white ACF=2294]
[black ACF=2010]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 Ne4 3. Bh4 g5 4. f3 gxh4 5. fxe4 c5 6. e3 Qb6 7. Nc3 Qxb2 8. Nd5 Kd8 9. Nf3 e6 10. Ne5 exd5 11. Nxf7 Ke7 12. Nxh8 Qc3+
13. Kf2 Bg7 14. Qh5 Bxd4 15. Qxh7 Kd8 16. Nf7+ Kc7 17. Qh6 Bf6
18. Qf4+ d6 19. Qxd6X 1-0

Basil
14-05-2008, 01:54 PM
Thanks Vlad. Julian Hodgson, eat your heart out! This is exactly the stupefying obliteration that can occur when the white pieces are in the right hands and the white player is in the mood.

What follows is commentary from Super GMPatzer:
I believe 5 Bh6 is black's best continuation in this line.

CameronD
14-05-2008, 07:41 PM
Bh4 is discredited these days due to...

... c5 f3 g5! fxe4 gxh4

road runner
14-05-2008, 08:38 PM
Bh4 is discredited these days due to...

... c5 f3 g5! fxe4 gxh4I think you are going to have to go further than that if you want to convince people that White is so bad in this position. White has a big centre, open f-file, can quickly finish development, and black's forward h-pawn is weak.

CameronD
14-05-2008, 08:52 PM
I think you are going to have to go further than that if you want to convince people that White is so bad in this position. White has a big centre, open f-file, can quickly finish development, and black's forward h-pawn is weak.

If you think you know more than Peter Wells, go ahead. Who've written a 300+ page book on the opening.

Garvinator
14-05-2008, 08:52 PM
Bh4 is discredited these days due to...

... c5 f3 g5! fxe4 gxh4
Isnt this just the line that drug, in the game above, smashed his opponent with?

CameronD
14-05-2008, 09:07 PM
My fritz database has a score of

w 23 d 15 b 26 (48%)

since 2000

w 6 d 7 b 8 (45%)

Whites dark square problems occur on both the queen and kingside

road runner
14-05-2008, 09:26 PM
If you think you know more than Peter Wells, go ahead. Who've written a 300+ page book on the opening.You said the resultant position "decredited" the entire line for White, and have not given a single reason why Black is better, or even equalised in that position. So if you would like to regurgitate some Peter Wells for us, or offer some actual reasons of your own, feel free. Drug, who is a stronger player than you or I, just won a very nice game from that position.

Basil
14-05-2008, 09:51 PM
You said the resultant position "decredited" the entire line for Black
White actually. I'm assuming a typo, but yes I agree with all you have said. Cam - ease up mate!

CameronD
14-05-2008, 09:54 PM
You said the resultant position "decredited" the entire line for Black, and have not given a single reason why Black is better, or even equalised in that position. So if you would like to regurgitate some Peter Wells for us, or offer some actual reasons of your own, feel free. Drug, who is a stronger player than you or I, just won a very nice game from that position.

direct quote from page 12

3. Bh4?!, once the main line, but now rather discredited. The intentions behind the move are laudible - not least the fact that keeping the e pawn pinned rather restricts blacks options. i think that the drawback on the move is quite simple to understand too. 3. Bh4 is in essence a poor preparation for combating black's dark square strategy.

I dont speed type , so I wont go on, but Wells continue on white weakness and how black should play.

ps - like most discredited master lines, they can be played with success at sub 2000 level.

road runner
14-05-2008, 10:06 PM
White actually. I'm assuming a typo,Yep, have fixed now, thanks.

road runner
14-05-2008, 10:12 PM
direct quote from page 12

3. Bh4?!, once the main line, but now rather discredited. The intentions behind the move are laudible - not least the fact that keeping the e pawn pinned rather restricts blacks options. i think that the drawback on the move is quite simple to understand too. 3. Bh4 is in essence a poor preparation for combating black's dark square strategy.

I dont speed type , so I wont go on, but Wells continue on white weakness and how black should play.

ps - like most discredited master lines, they can be played with success at sub 2000 level.and which part of that is meant to be an evaluation of the position that you mentioned earlier was the reason the line was discredited?

CameronD
14-05-2008, 10:22 PM
I'm not going to waste my time anymore. Spend $40 on the book if you want to understand why 3...Bh5 is not played anymore.

Basil
14-05-2008, 11:30 PM
I'm not going to waste my time anymore. Spend $40 on the book if you want to understand why 3...Bh5 is not played anymore.
I have that book Cam. I'll post more later. Yes Bh4 is not to be recommended from a technical POV - but THIS IS THE TROMP! One might as well tell Evil Kneivel that jumping buses is dangerous.

Have a look at Drug's game and see how relevant technical is! :lol: It is possible to be too anal about these things especially in matters Tromp!!! I'm not saying you are - but perhaps you are taking some Tromp analysis too literally. For instance one can legitimately argue that the Tromp itself is unsound or at least 'not good'. But GMs and Drug play it nonetheless.

Kevin Bonham
26-01-2009, 11:34 PM
*bump*

Gunner, have you ever been tempted to play a sort of reverse Tromp with Black, eg 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Bg4 ? (I had this played against me on the weekend.)

Anyone have any opinions of this line?

antichrist
27-01-2009, 12:09 AM
*bump*

Gunner, have you ever been tempted to play a sort of reverse Tromp with Black, eg 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Bg4 ? (I had this played against me on the weekend.)

Anyone have any opinions of this line?

It sounds like you lost?

Kevin Bonham
27-01-2009, 12:13 AM
It sounds like you lost?

Incorrect. :D

Basil
27-01-2009, 01:08 AM
*bump*

Gunner, have you ever been tempted to play a sort of reverse Tromp with Black, eg 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Bg4 ? (I had this played against me on the weekend.)

Anyone have any opinions of this line?
Thanks for the bump. Among other things I think I'm meant to be replying to someone's query (David Flude IIRC) on Tromp books. I have Gallagher's and Wells'. Of the two, the second is far superior IMHO.

The former is good for players of 1000 - 1700 IMO. While it does illustrate GM games, there is probably insufficient explanatory information underpining why people like Hodgson, Smerdon and even Drug can get away with what they're doing. At the bottom of all the nefarious chat, the Tromp often requires quite an advanced tactical awareness (on account of its positional deficiencies :lol:)

Wells' book is much deeper (and broader). Far more themes, deeper analysis (not just of the games at hand but the ideas are well-drawn together), later print date and if studied and remembered, a Tromp-ite can probably play successfully well into 2000 level.

One of the keys to the Tromp (and I guess with many systems, but especially with attacking systems which sacrifice both position and often enough material) is to know both when to hammer home and go for it as well as when to pull out because the game has become a different one.

A reverse Tromp? Yes, I used to play it prior to having done any text reading at all when I was just coming into adult chess (circa 2000). My results then would mean nothing for obvious reasons. I recall I moved fairly swiftly into Dutch territory shortly thereafter. Anecdotally, I don't believe it's awful (like say the Possum :lol: jk) because better players than me have suggested it at various times. However with that, it should be noted that they are talking about play at my level and not on its merits AFAIK.

I'm really not in a position to discuss its optimal evaluation - my guess is that if the Tromp is 'bad' :eek:, then the reverse Tromp must be worse. That said, who exactly (apart from Cam) says the Tromp is bad!? :P

Basil
06-02-2009, 05:45 PM
Lifted from Guy's simul thread.


That's unnecessarily generous Tasso, but very kind of you if you want to do it. Maybe you could give it directly to the next Olympiad Appeal, as they acknowledge all donors. Croydon are donating the proceeds to that cause.

The 'brave' King mentioned earlier was in the opening of my game against Luthien, which she felt she stuffed up a bit, and I agree. Here are the moves up to where I won the exchange... I can't remember it all after that!

1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 e6 3.e4 h6 4.Bxf6 Qxf6 5.e5 Qd8 6.f4 c5 7.c3 Qc7 8.Nf3 cxd4 9.cxd4 Bb4+ 10.Kf2 b6 11.a3 Be7 12.Nc3 Bb7 13.Rc1 Nc6 14.d5 Bc5+ 15.Kg3 exd5 16.Nxd5 Qd8 17.b4 Ne7 18.Bc4 Nf5+ 19.Kh3 Be3 20.Qd3 Bxd5 21.Bxd5 g6 22.Bxa8 Qxa8 23.Rce1 Bxf4 24.Qe4 Qxe4 25.Rxe4 Bg5 26.g4 Ng7 27.Kg3 Ne6 28.h4 Bd8 etc, and White eventually won.

Saragossa
06-02-2009, 06:36 PM
Dubbed the steinitz tromp :P

Basil
23-01-2010, 10:54 PM
Nice effort from Cam DeVere with Tromp. He didn't win, but was marginally better art various stages against his much higher rated opponent (Gene Nakauchi). Is this your first public outing with The Tromp, Cam?

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 Ne4 3. Bf4 c5 4. f3 Qa5+ 5. c3 Nf6 6. d5 d6 7. e4 Nbd7 8. Na3 a6 9. Nc4 Qc7 10. a4 g6 11. Nh3 Bg7 12. Qd2 O-O 13. Bh6 Rb8 14. Bxg7 Kxg7 15. Nf2 Ne5 16. Bd3 b5 17. Nxe5 dxe5 18. axb5 axb5 19. c4 bxc4 20. Bxc4 Rd8 21. Qc3 e6 22. dxe6 Bxe6 23. Bxe6 fxe6 24. O-O Rd4 25. Ra5 c4 26. Rfa1 Qb6 27. Qa3 Rd2 28. Qc5 Qxc5 29. Rxc5 Rbxb2 30. Nd1 Rxg2+ 31. Kf1 Rbd2

CameronD
26-01-2010, 08:46 PM
Vs Barbic (unrated). Stuffed up again, cant work out how to continue with these lines.

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 Ne4 3. Bf4 e6 4. f3 Nf6 5. e4 d5 6. e5 Ng8 7. Nh3 b6 8. c3 Qd7 9. Nf2 Ne7 10. Bd3 Ba6 11. O-O c5 12. a4 Bxd3 13. Nxd3 cxd4 14. cxd4 Nf5 15. Nf2 Nc6 16. g4 Nfe7 17. Be3 h5 18. Nc3 Ng6 19. Rc1 Rc8 20. Qd3 Nb4 21. Qb5 f6 22. f4 fxe5 23. fxe5 Nh4 24. Qe2 hxg4 25. Qxg4 Nf5 26. Qg6+ Qf7 27. Qxf7+ Kxf7 28. Bg5 Nxd4 29. Nd3+ Nf5 30. Nxb4 Bxb4 31. Nb5

Basil
26-01-2010, 08:54 PM
Cam you asked (in the shoutbox) about this game and referred to continuations. I made some rude comments about posting it and hoping for real men Tromp players to comment, as others will simply say "... and white is bad".

From my humble perspective, that Bf4 needs to be moved around move 6. or soon after. One may ask about moving a piece so much in the opening and my understanding is that:
a) the position calls for it, and
b) the Tromp itself is about both sides fiddling with the same bits more than is considered polite in the opening

Finally, if you don't want to eschew opening theory and standard advice, don't play the Tromp. The Tromp is for mad bastards and various other descriptors.

that Caesar guy
26-01-2010, 09:18 PM
Vs Barbic (unrated). Stuffed up again, cant work out how to continue with these lines.

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 Ne4 3. Bf4 e6 4. f3 Nf6 5. e4 d5 6. e5 Ng8 7. Nh3 b6 8. c3 Qd7 9. Nf2 Ne7 10. Bd3 Ba6 11. O-O c5 12. a4 Bxd3 13. Nxd3 cxd4 14. cxd4 Nf5 15. Nf2 Nc6 16. g4 Nfe7 17. Be3 h5 18. Nc3 Ng6 19. Rc1 Rc8 20. Qd3 Nb4 21. Qb5 f6 22. f4 fxe5 23. fxe5 Nh4 24. Qe2 hxg4 25. Qxg4 Nf5 26. Qg6+ Qf7 27. Qxf7+ Kxf7 28. Bg5 Nxd4 29. Nd3+ Nf5 30. Nxb4 Bxb4 31. Nb5
I'm not the biggest expert on the Tromp around, but 3...e6 looks a bit fishy: after 4. f3 Nf6 5. e4, I think White is doing extremely well. After 5...d5, 6. e5 is good, but after 5...Ng8, I think 6. Be3! is the right move there, and iseems like a French, 2 tempi up for white (discounting the f3 move, as it is un-important.) I just think White came up with a plan, that let Black get his tempi back, and Black quickly got a French paradise when the white-squared bishops went off.
I'm guessing Black was a experience French player: he played the game very very well after move 6 or so, and...well, thats it :)

My game probably isn't worth putting up, but if people insist, I will anyway ;)

JM

Basil
26-01-2010, 09:21 PM
My game probably isn't worth putting up, but if people insist, I will anyway ;)

JM
I insist. Tromp's go in the tromp thread. It's only natural.

that Caesar guy
26-01-2010, 09:31 PM
I insist. Tromp's go in the tromp thread. It's only natural.
Tomorrow, I'm too tired now, sorry :P. Besides, I will need to go find the scoresheet, which could be in any God-forsaken place :P

JM

Basil
26-01-2010, 09:32 PM
Tomorrow, I'm too tired now, sorry :P. Besides, I will need to go find the scoresheet, which could be in any God-forsaken place :P

JM
I believe it would be online.

Kevin Bonham
26-01-2010, 10:30 PM
Tomorrow, I'm too tired now, sorry :P. Besides, I will need to go find the scoresheet, which could be in any God-forsaken place :P


I'll save James a bit of effort here:

[Event "Aus Junior Under 18"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "1.1"]
[White "Morris, James"]
[Black "Deen-Cowell, Nicholas"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A46"]
[WhiteElo "2196"]
[BlackElo "1622"]
[PlyCount "53"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 e6 3. e4 h6 4. Bxf6 Qxf6 5. Nf3 d6 6. Nc3 Nd7 7. Bc4 Qd8 8. Qe2
Be7 9. O-O-O Nb6 10. Bd3 Bd7 11. h4 c6 12. g3 Qc7 13. Ne1 Bf6 14. Qe3 O-O-O 15.
f4 g6 16. e5 Be7 17. Nf3 d5 18. Ne2 c5 19. c3 c4 20. Bb1 h5 21. Rdg1 Na4 22. g4
b5 23. Ng5 Bxg5 24. fxg5 a5 25. gxh5 Rxh5 26. Rf1 Rf8 27. Bxg6 1-0

Don't let the rating gap fool you; NDC had a great tournament with a TPR of 1872.

that Caesar guy
27-01-2010, 07:59 AM
I believe it would be online.
Ah right, lol, I just came here to post it up now :S
Forgot about that, thanks Kevin :)

JM

Garrett
06-08-2013, 06:11 PM
New book on the Tromp

http://www.newinchess.com/Shop/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=7280&utm_source=New+In+Chess&utm_campaign=758b91be37-Campaign_402_2-08-2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_44628fb704-758b91be37-246501717

Kevin Bonham
12-11-2016, 05:44 AM
*trump*

MichaelBaron
12-11-2016, 10:12 AM
Not destructive enough to be called ''Trumpovsky''!

ER
12-11-2016, 06:41 PM
Not destructive enough to be called ''Trumpovsky''!

lol good one! :lol: