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View Full Version : Maccas and the question of "work"



Kevin Bonham
22-02-2004, 11:47 PM
This spun off the School Sport 1 - Chess 0 thread very rapidly, and while a lot of the discussion has some relevance to chess (in the sense of whether teenagers would be better off working, even in low-pay jobs, than focusing on something like chess). However I wanted to create a space for discussing Maccas without feeling any need to stay on topic as obviously a lot of people are interested.


I don't disagree that experience in the field you are looking for is essential. I would hope that once my kids have started at Uni, if they can get some experience in their fields then they should.

What I have trouble with is the working at Macdonalds or Pure and Natural or whatever that so many of the chess kids do (and then drop out of chess). From my experience chess kids tend to choose fields in Medicine, Law, Science, IT etc - it is hard to see what relevance these jobs have to their later careers.

Shannon is doing Medical Science - I do not feel she will be unemployable because she has failed to serve fast food.

Most of the kids are working to afford their truly horrendous mobile phone bills, and it is sad to see them giving up chess in order to afford more glitzy consumer goods. Not happy with creating stressed and over worked adults, we seem to be creating stressed and over worked 14 and 15 year olds who will never understand the value of free time and hobbies!


hi jenni
Just a couple of data points.
I have two girls, one 29 and the other 24. Both teriary qualified, both had mid-teens at Maccas. The customer-service training, and experience, they received there has been crucial to picking up later part-time and full-time jobs. How ever much much we may deride 'and will you have fries with that' it is a great education that gives a terrific customer-oriented advantage.
I have a 26 year old son. tertiary qualified. Could not get a job for 12 months after graduation (even offering to work free for 2 months probation). The two girls got him his first job by their word of mouth.
And by the way I prefer Greasy Jos to Maccas.
starter

Vintage Matthew this one:


I would rather see my kids work as strippers than degrade themselves in front of the disgusting-low-lifes who eat Maca's. They would get better money and learn valuable lessons in human behavior.


Yeh, well Ok Matt. That is your point of view.
All I was doing was providing a piece of real data to jenni. The fact is that the customer-service training, that used to be available from Maccas, has been a rewarding experience for my two girls that has been beneficial for many later job applications and personal dealings in the work-place.
I am not defending the behaviour of Maccas customers; although I am surprised by you turning to 'avoidance mechanisms' (i.e. work as strippers instead) rather than meet the challenge head-on. But perhaps this (avoidance mechanism for child development) was another of your New year Resolutions previously unrevealed.
And yes it doesn't earn much. Agreed.
But again, all I was trying to do is show jenni that there were benefits to be counted too.

Or, did you just want to say strongly "I ,(MS) ,don't like Maccas".

starter


the main point about having a job as a teenager is that it gives the said teenager two things unis dont give, a reliable job history and checkable referees. those are completely essential in the hunt for a full time job.


[I've been sprung :doh: ]

The food it yuk.
The concept of "fast food" is the antithesis of civilized life.
The wages are unconscionably low.


On this we can agree.


Really sport and chess do not have to be mutually exclusive. GM Agdestein is an example of somebody who has been able to combine both at the highest levels. In a balanced society we would be able to find time for a little of both.

The comments about schooling are interesting. I do agree we place to much emphasis on results in year 11 and 12, stressing out young people in the process. The real problem probably is the way we structure education for people. Education ought to be for life,not just a stepping stone to vocational success. So the key question might be, Is high school about learning or an attempt by society to control young peoples behaviour from an early age?

This brings us to the Macdonalds question. It is well documented that people who can tolerate Macdonalds work are more employable then those who cannot. Macdonalds is very good training for corporate work. However, most Macdonalds employees are accutely aware of the tedious conformity and rationality such work provides. Taylorism and Fordism go hand in hand with Macdonalds work. The key question here might be is this really work? or is it an attempt to socially condition society into accepting unreasonable norms and thus destroying the enchantment of life. No doubt, everybody has there own opinion on such questions. One thing however remains true. When your in charge of the means of production you can segment labour into basically any divison you want.
regards FG7

Rincewind
23-02-2004, 12:00 AM
I like Maccas and most of the kids who work there seem genuinely nice and customer focussed.

Not sure on the theory that (a) a lot of the kids who work there don't need the money, and (b) the pay is unconsciably low. They seem to be mutually exclusive positions to me - might be worth exploring further. It's interesting that Matt classes Maccas further down the corporate ladder of morality than the sex industry. This seems to be drawing a rather long bow, to say the least

I never worked at maccas during my student days but when I was at high school I did work on a milk run for a couple of months. The work was too hard for the rewards and I tossed it in. Since joining the work force (at age 18) I've been permanently employed for the last 20 years. So sticking at your first part time job necessary (let alone sufficient) for future corporate assimilation. But perhaps I'm a statistical outlier.

eclectic
23-02-2004, 12:09 AM
Is there a correlation between McDonalds "wages" and the prize money an average Australian chess player earns per annum ?

Is there is then should they be approached to be our national sponsor?

eclectic

Kevin Bonham
23-02-2004, 12:21 AM
Firstly I'd suggest fellow Maccas-bashers might want to say how often they actually eat there, if ever. This is often an amusing exercise. :p

I have Maccas-basher tendencies. I find their "food" to generally be horrendously overpriced for its volume, and nowhere near filling enough. I strongly dislike their banal sing-songy conformist advertising, their sterile image, and the way I feel like I am speaking to a toneless robot with no imagination at all whenever I deal with their staff. I don't like being bombarded with buzzwords like "upsize", and "combo" (the cheek of them, that's our word!). And yes, what I've heard of their workplace practices doesn't exactly delight me.

I will eat there, but rarely. Maybe once or twice a year. Don't like going there at all, because Maccas attracts the kinds of (non)characters who almost have a heart attack when a person who looks remotely alternative invades their "space". Normally it will be a nothing-else-convenient-open case. I have used Maccas as part of my theory that between rounds of weekenders, food that takes away hunger but doesn't fill you up is best. And Maccas sure doesn't fill me up, unless I feel like spending $30 at a sitting (NB I've never done this). However, Maccas food is quite fatty even in small portions, so I'm not convinced it works well for this purpose. Carbohydrates from bakeries seem to be a better bet.

All that said, I'd hardly begrudge anyone who wanted to "work" there. It might be a low-paying environment where the employee is basically a tool in the production line (much as firegoat suggests) but it doesn't mean a person has to stay like that for the rest of their life. Actually in Howard's Australia when conditions for those on welfare are so belittling and hoop-jumping, I really wouldn't begrudge a person working in pretty much any line of work they could get a job in.

On one issue raised by firegoat (conditioning of society to accept otherwise unacceptable conditions) - I think of it more as a business creating McJobs out of sheer self-interest than out of a desire to render the employee servile for life. But the effect of numerous businesses pressuring government from their own self-interested perspectives may not lead to that much of a practical difference if government is too much in their pockets.

There's a doco coming up by a guy who lived off nothing but Maccas for a month to test how it would affect him. Should be well worth a look.

Kevin Bonham
23-02-2004, 12:23 AM
Is there a correlation between McDonalds "wages" and the prize money an average Australian chess player earns per annum ?

My average net profits from playing in weekenders per year, less entry fees, come out at about $11 per hour.

eclectic
23-02-2004, 12:32 AM
My average net profits from playing in weekenders per year, less entry fees, come out at about $11 per hour.
Hi KB,

I bet you can't wait to become an IM or a GM !!

Once you qualify for free entry status you would really be on the

GRAVY TRAIN

:owned:

cheers

eclectic

Kevin Bonham
23-02-2004, 12:58 AM
Hi KB,

I bet you can't wait to become an IM or a GM !!

Once you qualify for free entry status you would really be on the

GRAVY TRAIN

Not really. I left out travel and accommodation costs from that reckoning.

But this reminds me of another question I might put in the general chess section.

arosar
23-02-2004, 09:02 AM
I voted slightly supportive. Boys, at least it gives 'em teenies something to do OK. And yes, the goat is quite right: a McJob inculcates some work values; like team-work, adherence to rules/procedure and, to starter's point - customer service ethic. In short, to be a cog in a bureaucracy.

As for food - don't talk to me about food. I'm the only one here qualified to talk about food. I've had me $5 meals and $100 ones. Maccas is good for a quick bite OK and cheap too. The thing that upsets me about Maccas though is that sometimes, they forget this notion of 'fast food'. You order an applie pie and they say, "Oh sorry sir, we've run out. It'll be a 5-minute wait." Stuff that! Also, I don't like their Coke: too watered-down. And the burgers are nowhere near as good as Burger King's. But Maccass fries are way sooo much better.

Here's my tip for the day, for those in Sydney and future visitors. About 3 minutes walk from Peter Parr's shop is this great little sushi place - Musashi. Gorgeous food and healthy too. For as little as $15 bucks, you can get a real filler.

AR

Garvinator
23-02-2004, 10:36 AM
Here's my tip for the day, for those in Sydney and future visitors. About 3 minutes walk from Peter Parr's shop is this great little sushi place - Musashi. Gorgeous food and healthy too. For as little as $15 bucks, you can get a real filler.
AR
didnt you plug that business on the acf bb too a couple of times :lol: :hmm:

Kevin Bonham
23-02-2004, 05:13 PM
The thing that upsets me about Maccas though is that sometimes, they forget this notion of 'fast food'. You order an applie pie and they say, "Oh sorry sir, we've run out. It'll be a 5-minute wait." Stuff that!

I had this one in KFC Burnie between rounds, back in the bad old days when I was still stupid enough to eat heavy junk food between rounds. I ordered some kind of zinger piece and the woman serving said "I'm sorry sir, we have run out of chicken". I was so gobsmacked, I just said the words slowly back to her "Um...this...is...a...chicken...restaurant...and... you...have...run...out...of...chicken?" Turned out they'd actually only run out of that sort. 15 minute wait and it fell apart when I attempted to eat it (meanwhile my clock is ticking ...about the only time I've ever not been at the board at the start of my game.)

arosar
21-06-2004, 05:07 PM
Any1 of youse seen Super Size Me? Review pls?

AR

Kevin Bonham
21-06-2004, 06:24 PM
Apparently Village have the rights to show it here in Tas but don't intend bringing it down, so I'll be waiting for the DVD.

Even though the film's unavailable here we are still getting the damage-control ads.

Feldgrau
22-12-2004, 05:41 AM
Any1 of youse seen Super Size Me? Review pls?

AR
A very watchable documentary, I enjoyed it.

Of particular interest are the "Extras" included on the DVD including an interview with the author of "Fast Food Nation" who revealed that a McDonalds hamburger might be made up of 1000's of cows (instead of just one!) such is the scale and efficiency of the McDonalds assembly line process. Also I was suprised to here that McDonalds corp will shut down restaraunts instead of allowing employee unions to form there. Also there was an interview with an owner of a shop that deep fries everything on the menu, including chocolate bars!

It's a bit like watching Mike Moore, you know you aren't going to get an unbiased view but you end up cheering for him anyway (At least if you agree with his opinion).