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arosar
20-02-2004, 10:20 AM
I'm surprised we haven't talked about it - what with us being such an opinionated bunch and all. I'm talking about the riot in Redfern on Sunday. What do you chaps reckon about that? I'm after your general opinion really: who's at fault, what to do, solutions, etc?

Here's my take. In this day and age, and in the country's richest city, it's a bit sad that there is that tiny little corner that seems to be imprisoned in poverty and squalor. The people there just appear to be 'hopeless'. I don't know about you lot, but I do not know a single aboriginal person! I just can't seem to make a connection with them, so it's hard to sympathise with their plight. So I tend to favour the idea of bulldozing that so called 'Block' and basically transferring these people elsewhere (don't ask me where).

What do you people say?

AR

firegoat7
20-02-2004, 08:14 PM
I say your an idiot! and an ignorant idiot at that!

JGB
20-02-2004, 09:48 PM
Demolition Man or what???

Thats no solution to this problem. I must say this riot recieved big coverage here in Germany.

Paul S
20-02-2004, 11:38 PM
Do we need rubbish threads like this on the BB?

It seems to me that the purposes of Arosar's post are to encourage racism against Aborigines and try to create controversy (as opposed to tackling these issues in a constructive way).

If I was a moderator I would have deleted this thread by now.

Kevin Bonham
20-02-2004, 11:57 PM
We're not going to know what happened for a while, if ever. Obviously a lot of pre-existing tension between both sides, and it only takes one thing to happen - doesn't even need to be anyone's fault, and off you go. A lot of the great cities of the world have their slums and shanties, I guess you can either give people a cheap place to live or have a large and even more troublesome homeless population. So I don't support demolishing the place at all. Your state Liberal Party sounds about as reactionary as ours.

I've known a few people who've lived there. They'll tell you a bunch of stories and then say "well actually, it's really not that bad".

PHAT
21-02-2004, 11:47 AM
Bellambi is a suburb of Wollongong. You can drive slowly down a particular street and unprosecutable white kids under 12yrs come out and can sell you most drugs most of the time. We have also got an "Aborginal area" in another suburb where the sports fields next door are littered with needles and the primary school is vandalised bigtime.

These problems are nothing to do with colour and everything to do with underclass. There is white scum and there is black scum. Threat them the same - sterilisation. This is not for eugenics, it is to stop intergenerational scumness.

BTW. I read some amazing stats recently. Aboriginals in full employment in cities have a slighghly higher annual income than "whites" :eek: This supports the idea that it is not a colour/"race" problem, but one of class.

arosar
21-02-2004, 03:28 PM
It seems to me that the purposes of Arosar's post are to encourage racism against Aborigines and try to create controversy (as opposed to tackling these issues in a constructive way).

So tell us mate . . . how would you solve this problem we have in Redfern then? Get this Paulie. If it had been a bunch of Lebs in Lakemba, maaate, the premier would surely have sent in the state protection group. Then the Prime Minister would get involve and call-in air strikes! What we have here is a softly-softly approach cos, oh no, we don't wanna upset these people.

AR

arosar
21-02-2004, 03:36 PM
Fg7's sig reads:

'Government's an affair of sitting, not hitting. You rule with the brains and buttocks, never with the fists. For example, there was the conscription of consumption.' Aldous Huxley- Brave New World

Good one mate! :clap: :clap: Make sure you remind yourself of:

'Chess is an affair of sitting, not hitting. You play with the brains and buttocks, never with the fists'.

LOL!! :lol: :lol:

AR

Paul S
21-02-2004, 03:49 PM
So tell us mate . . . how would you solve this problem we have in Redfern then?

I'll admit I don't know what the solution is (as I don't know the full story).

What I do know though is that "pouring petrol on to the fire" (as you seem to be doing in your provocative initial post in this thread) only makes matters worse.

I don't mind listening to sensible debate on this issue, but I don't care for the rubbish that you carry on with.


If it had been a bunch of Lebs in Lakemba, maaate, the premier would surely have sent in the state protection group. Then the Prime Minister would get involve and call-in air strikes!

That's absurd. Thanks for the laugh. :D :D :D

Gandalf
21-02-2004, 05:22 PM
Destroying the home and community of a group of people with little else (including such things as jobs, food, money, clean clothes or education) hardly sounds like a convincing solution. Sure, it would have worked two hundred years ago, in the days when you could just kill your problems. These days, however, we like to pretend that humanity is compassion. Things are a little harder to control.

arosar
23-02-2004, 09:06 AM
What do you do with a tumor Gandalf?

AR

Rincewind
23-02-2004, 09:13 AM
What do you do with a tumor Gandalf?

What do you do when the biopsy comes back with a finding of malignant?

arosar
23-02-2004, 09:23 AM
What do you do when the biopsy comes back with a finding of malignant?

Ask Gandalf.

AR

paulb
23-02-2004, 11:35 AM
Demolish their homes? By what right? "Transfer" them? By what right? How would you feel about someone demolishing your home? It amazes me that some can't see how immediately outrageous this idea is. It's outrageous when Israelis do it in the West Bank and it would be outrageous here, too. In fact, it was outrageous here - our ancestors did knock off their land and transfer them to missions.

It's well to remember that they were here first; on a moral level, if Aborigines want to dance naked in the streets it's not really for whities to stop them. On a practical level, their situation is unhappy and we should work to improve it, but take care that our motives are not merely the removal of something we disapprove of - or find embarrassing - because we don't have that right.

xxx

There were some incredibly stupid articles in the papers suggesting that an architectural "makeover" of Redfern would fix the problem. A lot of people just don't get it that Aborigines generally don't share the western aesthetic, and a nice, prim house with walls and a neat garden is not what they want. Many of them just don't like walls.

xxx

I eagerly await an intelligent suggestion from the left or the right about improving the situation of Aborigines. It seems to me that the left's idea that Aborigines are never to blame is as stupid as the right's idea that they're always to blame, and that noone really has any idea what to do. Worse, few people seem to take the problem seriously - in the sense of looking for solutions over point-scoring and idle moral evaluations. A big part of the immediate problem is alcohol and other substance-abuse, and that makes the problem really intractable, as you can see by comparing it with the situation of whitie alcoholics.

arosar
23-02-2004, 12:13 PM
. . . It seems to me that the left's idea that Aborigines are never to blame is as stupid as the right's idea that they're always to blame, and that noone really has any idea what to do.

Yeah you said it matey! See, I always get this feeling that when it comes to the aboriginal situation, we always seem to tread far too carefully. Like now - they have these 3 separate investigations happening over what happened. FMD!! The police were just doing their job and good on 'em! And I'm glad you mentioned the Palestinian/Jew question. It reminded me of last Monday's episode of Sex and the City (I won't explain) but - see, this aboriginal thing is a bit like jewish/holocaust thing. As soon as somebody mention 'em - that's it! Everybody shut up. And if you say anything bad, you're a bloody racist!

Now you're always referring to 'whities'. What about 'em non-whities mate?

AR

firegoat7
23-02-2004, 02:07 PM
Well if you want some constructive ideas why don't you ask Indigenous people what they want? Instead of bleating on about how they affect Sydney property prices and how bad it looks on the media.

For instance, instead of forcing cultural assimilation upon people, in a naive attempt to embrace multi-culturalism (sic)- as if there is such a thing under the culture of capitalism. Why not empower people in a geographical area to be culturally independent. Why not only have indigenous policeman in Redfern? Why not allow indigenous media to film the riots instead of the major networks? If one particular group of people are impoverished and segmented as an underclass, why not give them economic autonomy so that they can help themselves. oh and by the way why not stop Indigenous kids from dying suspiously when dealing with the police. Need I remind you that until 1967 Indigenous people were not even regarded as citizens in their own country. Now it appears that Arosar thinks that Indigenous people havent suffered enough as a group of people. Now it appears the solution is to demolish their houses and move them---Idiot! Naive Idiot!

Cheers FG7

Food for thought
FG7
P.S The history of western civilisation(sic) is littered with the destruction of indigenous peoples, According to some sources 125 million estimated deaths in the 20th century alone.

arosar
23-02-2004, 02:18 PM
Idiot! Naive idiot!

There are aboriginal coppers. Problem is, them aboriginal residents don't want them aboriginal coppers to do their jobs mate. As soon as a copper does his job - aboriginal or not - these people start a freakin' riot.

Look who's naive. Listen to all that crap you excreted. Next thing you tell us you want them to freakin' secede!

AR

PHAT
23-02-2004, 09:31 PM
On a practical level, their situation is unhappy and we should work to improve it, but take care that our motives are not merely the removal of something we disapprove of ...



On a practical level, their behaviour is illegal and we should work to stop it, but take care that our motives are only the removal of something illegal. It is a slum getto - bulldoze it.

PHAT
23-02-2004, 09:38 PM
If one particular group of people are impoverished and segmented as an underclass, why not give them economic autonomy so that they can help themselves.


Simple - because thay cannot help themselves :wall:

Unfortunately, most of the other classes don't realy want to be bothered to help.

chesslover
23-02-2004, 09:53 PM
Idiot! Naive idiot!

There are aboriginal coppers. Problem is, them aboriginal residents don't want them aboriginal coppers to do their jobs mate. As soon as a copper does his job - aboriginal or not - these people start a freakin' riot.

AR

That is so true arosar.

The Daily Tele last week said that an aborigine cop had to be moved from Redfern as the rioters wanted to "burn" him. It seems that they hated him because he was doing his job and arresting the aborigines without any fear or fervour.

It seems that the aborigines only like aborigine cops if the cops do not arrest them, but the moment they start arresting these criminals, regardless of color, the rioters threat the aborigine cops worse than the other cops

firegoat7
24-02-2004, 08:54 PM
Or maybe you might want to address the question: We call western civilisisation civilised society and yet we seem to need police to keep the calm amongst our own citizens.

where as: Indigenous cultures often do not have policeman. Meaning there is no real empowering of others to police us. So why should indigenous peoples respect the authority of the police? An interesting point when you consider how many indigenous people have died rather suspiciously in Australian jails. Not to mention, the ridiculous ratio of jailing rates compared between cultures.

Policing might just be a clash of cultures. Forcing people to obey the police may just be a way of forcing cultural assimilation. Leading to a long term decline of cultural autonomy, then again it might just be inevitable. Who knows what is happening.

cheers FG7

antichrist
24-02-2004, 09:02 PM
Fg7's sig reads:

'Government's an affair of sitting, not hitting. You rule with the brains and buttocks, never with the fists. For example, there was the conscription of consumption.' Aldous Huxley- Brave New World

Good one mate! :clap: :clap: Make sure you remind yourself of:

'Chess is an affair of sitting, not hitting. You play with the brains and buttocks, never with the fists'.

LOL!! :lol: :lol:

AR

I played Ivanchuk's uncle to win Ukrainian Club Championship, half way through I accused him of violating touch move rule. He let fly with the whole set. Luckily my mate was watching and he remembered the whole board and I went on to win.

About five years ago I did offer the Block people to teach the youngsters chess but they were not interested. Later I thought of going through Kathy Freeman (figuratively speaking) as she is a keen player but could not find her on internet.

A lot of the fighters come from Walgett and Moree where I have lived. Up there the only entertainment is the fights behind the pubs after they close. Must go again. Finish later.

PHAT
24-02-2004, 09:37 PM
Indigenous cultures often do not have policeman. ... So why should indigenous peoples respect the authority of the police?

So why should we have any faith in "the elders" pulling their renegades into line?