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strangerep
16-02-2021, 01:08 PM
I've just now re-scanned the 2018 FIDE rules, but failed to find any clause stating that an arbiter for a tournament or match must not be a player in said tournament or match. Did I miss something?

Andrew Hardegen
16-02-2021, 01:20 PM
I've just now re-scanned the 2018 FIDE rules, but failed to find any clause stating that an arbiter for a tournament or match must not be a player in said tournament or match. Did I miss something?

There is no such rule. As far as FIDE is concerned, the arbiters may play. Of course an arbiter should not rule on any matter in which (s)he has an interest.

An arbiter, irrespective of whether (s)he is playing or not, may appoint playing and non-playing assistants.

However, some clubs / tournaments may have their own rules. My club's policy is to have non-playing CA for FIDE-rated events.

For title tournaments (i.e. tournaments in which norms are available), an arbiter cannot play in any round, even as a `filler'.

Afitz
16-02-2021, 01:33 PM
It's not ideal to have a playing arbiter for multiple reasons, however there are circumstances that sometimes dictate that it is necessary to have a playing arbiter.

Shaun94
16-02-2021, 01:48 PM
Some examples of playing arbiters being necessary are club nights, regional tournaments (no arbiters in the area) to avoid an odd number etc. I think if there is a playing arbiter for whatever reason in one of those few situations it needs to be communicated to the players clearly.

Bill Gletsos
16-02-2021, 03:13 PM
As Andrew noted an arbiter cannot be a player in a FIDE title (norm) tournament. This is stated in the FIDE title regulations.

FIDE rating regulations do not preclude an arbiter from being a player.

Kevin Bonham
16-02-2021, 05:21 PM
Also the FIDE Arbiters Commission ruled in 2012 that an arbiter cannot use a tournament for an arbiter title norm if they were a player in the tournament.

Patrick Byrom
16-02-2021, 06:16 PM
... However, some clubs / tournaments may have their own rules. My club's policy is to have non-playing CA for FIDE-rated events. ... There would be state rules as well. For example, in Qld:


For South East Queensland ACF rated events, a minimum of 1 non-playing arbiter per 50 players is required, with a preferred ratio of 1 non-playing arbiter per 40 players.

For South East Queensland FIDE rated events, a minimum of 1 non-playing arbiter per 40 players is required, with a preferred ratio of 1 non-playing arbiter per 30 players.

Regional Event organizers are reminded that there should be a non-playing arbiter too, unless as an absolute last resort and then only with approval by the CAQ Council.

ER
16-02-2021, 08:47 PM
There would be state rules as well. For example, in Qld:


For South East Queensland ACF rated events, a minimum of 1 non-playing arbiter per 50 players is required, with a preferred ratio of 1 non-playing arbiter per 40 players.

For South East Queensland FIDE rated events, a minimum of 1 non-playing arbiter per 40 players is required, with a preferred ratio of 1 non-playing arbiter per 30 players.

Regional Event organizers are reminded that there should be a non-playing arbiter too, unless as an absolute last resort and then only with approval by the CAQ Council.



As opposed to what? South West Queensland? North Queensland? North West Queensland ? North East (careful the reef) Queensland?

what a laughable load of rubbish! One set of rules should apply for all tournaments!

Shaun94
16-02-2021, 09:25 PM
As opposed to what? South West Queensland? North Queensland? North West Queensland ? North East (careful the reef) Queensland?

what a laughable load of rubbish! One set of rules should apply for all tournaments!

The reason for the defining of reasons is the access to arbiters and resources in SEQ. This would be similar to city v country situations I imagine.

SEQ has 3x IAs and 5 or so FAs (could be wrong) while there are 0 outside of Brisbane/ Gold Coast that I am aware of. This is due to population and the size of Queensland as a state being so vast.

Afitz
17-02-2021, 11:52 AM
There is 1 NA outside of SEQ - based in Bundaberg. The cost for these small events to have an independent arbiter is definitely higher due to travel (remember QLD is a HUGE state!) and if you take into account cost of an arbiter, flights, etc then it can quite literally break a tournament, even with the generous subsidies in place from CAQ.

MichaelBaron
17-02-2021, 01:37 PM
It's not ideal to have a playing arbiter for multiple reasons, however there are circumstances that sometimes dictate that it is necessary to have a playing arbiter.

Well, in small-scale club events - it is a common practice and not a bad one at all.

MichaelBaron
17-02-2021, 01:41 PM
As opposed to what? South West Queensland? North Queensland? North West Queensland ? North East (careful the reef) Queensland?

what a laughable load of rubbish! One set of rules should apply for all tournaments!

And I really like the ''unless it is the last resort'' passage....how would one define the ''last resort'' in this case :).

Patrick Byrom
17-02-2021, 01:59 PM
Well, in small-scale club events - it is a common practice and not a bad one at all.I don't think it's ever a good idea for the arbiter to be playing as well. However in a small club event it's not a major problem.

Patrick Byrom
17-02-2021, 02:03 PM
And I really like the ''unless it is the last resort'' passage....how would one define the ''last resort'' in this case :).When the only alternative is cancellation.

Shaun94
17-02-2021, 02:15 PM
And I really like the ''unless it is the last resort'' passage....how would one define the ''last resort'' in this case :).

If there is no alternative? Eg. an arbiter who has agree to be the official becomes unwell the morning of a tournament etc. could be examples of the need for a player to take on the role of arbiter as well.

Some remote areas may not be able to attract an arbiter to run an event for a local club.

MichaelBaron
19-02-2021, 01:28 AM
I am curious to know statistically: In Australia, how many of the small clubs (that are having 10-15 players) have non-playing arbiters for their events and how many are having the playing ones?

Kevin Bonham
19-02-2021, 08:16 AM
Tasmanian club events and weekenders pretty much always have playing arbiters. It's too much cut out of small (or for club events zero) prize pools to pay an arbiter a fee, and generally unrealistic to expect someone to give up playing to be an arbiter for nothing given we have only a few weekenders a year.

Usual practice for weekenders is that the playing DOP is not also an arbiter, and we appoint one chief arbiter and two assistants.

Shaun94
19-02-2021, 08:31 AM
I think for general club nights or small tournaments (under 30 or so) you can often get away with a playing arbiter if there is no other option.

Caq brought in the rule more so for large scale weekenders (50+) to have ratios and non playing arbiters to ensure the events run well. This is for acf rated or caq endorsed events.

As a guide the QLD Reserves this weekend will have a maximum of 108 players and 4 arbiters. This ensures any issues are dealt with immediately and there is adequate supervision of games throughout the tournament (noise etc. All easily managed).

This may be one of the reasons many interstate players enjoy participating in The Gold Coast Open, it is run very professionally and staffed to a high level for an international event. Do I think that level of staffing etc is necessary for a club nights or micro weekender? Probably not but it all depends what you're going for.

Desmond
19-02-2021, 08:56 AM
I think for general club nights or small tournaments (under 30 or so) you can often get away with a playing arbiter if there is no other option.

Caq brought in the rule more so for large scale weekenders (50+) to have ratios and non playing arbiters to ensure the events run well. This is for acf rated or caq endorsed events.

As a guide the QLD Reserves this weekend will have a maximum of 108 players and 4 arbiters. This ensures any issues are dealt with immediately and there is adequate supervision of games throughout the tournament (noise etc. All easily managed).

This may be one of the reasons many interstate players enjoy participating in The Gold Coast Open, it is run very professionally and staffed to a high level for an international event. Do I think that level of staffing etc is necessary for a club nights or micro weekender? Probably not but it all depends what you're going for.

I think it's good to have these guidelines published by the state association, which ensure that the events are well supervised. It's very frustrating if you have an issue and can't find an arbiter who is available.